There is a kind of beauty in his double edged psychosis. Konrad wants to be a good guy and to uphold the ideal of a future united humanity. But, his visions always take him to dark potential outcomes. Making him believe, the dark outcomes are absolute. Konrad himself, reinforces his visions by following them. And completing them. Instead of questioning them and trying to defy them, or to try to break the cycle. He keeps bouncing back and forth between trying to seek understanding. In a way where he could find acceptance, and break out of the nightmare of his prophesied future. Only to double back and run away back into the shadows, when salvation is close at hand. Konrads story. Is an amazing tragedy. I really do love his talk with the Emperor. When the Emperor tells him his only mistake was believing the visions where a dark inescapable reality. Instead of a twisted possibility.
One of the only traitor primarchs I can actually stand. I wonder about the dichotomy presented by knowing your own fate. It might make one utterly fearless in battle, knowing that this is not the day that they die. But fear of death often drives us to accomplish what would have otherwise been impossible. Too much fear could make you indecisive, but no fear at all could make you careless. I don't think I would want to follow a commander who had never wrestled with the fear or death. I'm a little saddened that some of the best writing for The Lion is in Curze's books. In much the same way that Curze and Corax are different aspects of shadows and fear, Kurze and Jonson are aspects of justice. Both are pragmatic, willing to kill a few to save many. But The Lion's justice is achieved through reason, while Konrad's is achieved through fear. And both brothers do this with minimal influence from emotion. I have this odd story bouncing around in the back of my head. One where the assassin failed, and Curze lived. This drives him deeper into madness, as his only rock was the knowledge of his future. Over the millennia, he expects more assassins, but none come. He is finally forced to conclude that his foresight was wrong. That there is a path before him that he can choose, rather than it being an inevitability. Perhaps he never returns to The Emperor's light, but he similarly does not trade his new freedom for servitude to chaos. He becomes a neutral primarch. A great galactic scalpel, painfully cutting cancers out of society.
Have you noticed the trend of 30k and breaking people's backs on your knee? I can think of at least three significant instances where that is the "finishing move" at the top of my head.
Kurze is the most interesting Primarch by far! Hes the only traitor Primarch that didnt fall to Chaos! Why do people always seem to miss this fact and never talk about it 🤔🤔🤔
@@jeffmusyoka1876 he certainly did my friend and he is awesome 😃 dont wanna spoil the curze primarch book but thers a part wer hes talkin to the 'meat statue' of The Emperor and hes munching on a human heart and gesturing with it like a person would with an apple lol hes hilariously evil lol
"The wolves go for the throat". We rip out their eyes, We cut off their hands, We cut off their feet And we skin what remains!." Unknown Night Lord. I think this quote completely sums up the Night Lords and what they are, murder and Butchery for the sake of it, Sheer and beautiful terror. Probably the most underrated of the legions.
Even though I prefer the story of Angron and Khârn, Conrad Curze allways had a certain air about him. Yes he seems like an edgelord and kind of a whiner, but he did get handed a bad hand of cards just like Angron. The difference is that Conrad had the option to make a choice (just like big E told him at the end), while Angron was completely eroded by the nails at the end. Even him becoming a demon prince was not his choice, but instead a scheme from Lorgar. Conrad might have turned out different if he chose Sanguinious as his mentor and teacher instead of Fulgrim. Not to say that Fulgrim is stupid, but Sanguinious is just more similar to him where his powers are concerned.
J W Corax is more edgelord than Curze, but yes, Curze (later in his life becomes very "edgy" because he has gone batshit) But I love Konrad, he's my favorite Primarch.
Spartacus, you forgot the whole scene of curze almost carving out his own eyes by the mire sight of the Emperor and the horrors that might befall him, only because of the emperor psychic might did Konrad fall back into sanity once more. You also forgot the entire story of which Konrad pleaded to Sanguinius to kill him, for he had seen the moment he turned traitor (Evil). Konrad Curze journey is a sad story arc of a Primarch that is pretty much the judge jury and executioner, he believed that history was on his side, that all he had done was for justice and good, the turn point is where he saw himself twisted and nothing more than a murderer, its why he hated his own legion in the end, they had become what he fought against for so long... insane murderers and tyrants. Curze could see the future sure, however never see the whole story of it, only few moments of what could be. You also forgot one major deal that goes for all of the Night Lords in general, they are in fact minor psykers, curze own psychic skills were only matched by Sanguinius.
He saved a lot of people with his terror tactics he saved entire systems by torturing 1 world compared to other primarchs his kill count was among the lowest
jack makila What if you were the one being tortured? Watching your family members flayed and dismembered slowly in front of you. Would you still think it’s better than military conquest?
jack makila. His way of ruling through terror didn't work. The moment he was gone, people went back to their old ways. Terror doesn't lead to lasting compliance.
@@youtubevoice1050 No, since he weren't there in person and the elemental of fearmongering the planet faded. Hence why he returned to nuke Nostramo to pieces, to prove his point, that all he had done was in vain. Although remember, while everyone else was growing up with a mentor or being taught a lesson of humanity, Konrad were on his own all life. A lone figure in the dark, self taught.
That was excellently done! _Ave Dominus Nox_ I just wanted to add two things: Sheng was the other Night Lord with him during the meeting with Corswain and Alajos; and when the Night Haunter attacked Dorn, he was struck by one of his visions and made that mess of Dorn with his bare hands and teeth while in the grip of the fugue. When he came round, he was distraught (and I daresay Dorn wasn't too happy either). Good to see Sheng getting some air time. I think it's up for debate whether the Emperor was actually talking through the flesh-totem or if sanity had left the building, myself, mind you.
Great vid. Throughout the video Curze started to remind me of some of the heroes in mythology. Not because of his actions (although plenty of heroes from myth could be brutal), but because he is both driven and imprisoned by Fate. Makes a certain speech near the end even more powerful.
Holy shit!...I just randomly thought to myself. "I wonder if that ItalianSpartacus guy has made any more of those awesome primarch videos? Probably not they seem like too much to take on" Then here this shows up on the same day I think and decide to check. I'm going to get food because I'm going to enjoy this.
Awesome lore vid sparty! As a son of Dorn I wanna believe he let Konrad attack him so he could see what has become of his brother but I know Konrad probably did kick his ass. Looking forward to the next tale in your lore vids Edit: also congrats on the 50k subs sparty! keep up the great work my dude!
ItalianSpartacus I do find it interesting that the first loyal primarch to greet Konrad was Dorn and if I remember correctly as well, Dorn was the also the first primarch to fight Conrad. I like to believe that was some nice writing that showed this as like a gateway or bridge in kondrads character development. Sorry if that doesn’t make any sense. Also no problem man, my mind is quite busy as of late but I try to make some time to watch your vids and to try to pop into streams
All right, my brother! A fantastic job- I have been eagerly awaiting this one Primarch video, as I know how highly you hold him in esteem. And you didn’t disappoint! I actually learned a lot of lore that I was unfamiliar with- and I really appreciated how you handled the way Curze viewed Corax- instead of just taking the easy Night Lords fan way out with, “yeah, but Curze was just better”- I didn’t expect any less from you, and you stayed true to the lore, and the task of a remembrancer. I’m going to watch it again, and give you some more impressions about it- but just to quickly get this to you- awesome job. Really- one of your best, and you know that I love your videos. Talk to you soon, man- Ave Dominus Nox.
Dude thank you so much!! I SAW YOUR COMMENT ON DARREN LATHAM'S RU-vid! His channel is amazing. Can't wait to see your follow up comment brother. When you do, make a new one don't reply here, it'll be hard to see it after a few days! :D always look forward to your comments man
ItalianSpartacus haha! Awesome! You bet, brother- I’ll get it to you via a newer video or something- keep up the kickass goodness 👍🏻. I’ve got a pretty cool idea that I’m about to work on & see if I can do it- don’t wanna spoil it but think you’d dig it! I will 100% send it on if it’s any good- and I’ll be checking out all of your other vids- surpringly, sometimes I’m just more in the mood for WHFantasy- the Old World still lives in my heart ❤️, and I can even enjoy a little (very little) AOS here and there- all right- next time, brother !
ItalianSpartacus oh wow, man- I really like some of the models from that range- and some of them, not so much! But the Namarti Reavers are pretty cool looking- and that octopus with the knife? Haha- that may be just my favorite thing ever! “Watch out for that octopus- he’s got a knife!” (I know it’s called an ochtar , but it’s an octopus to me). Let me know how they come out-
And- Holy shit, my man- Congratulations on 50,000 subscribers! That’s huge- and you totally deserve it! Your channel is great- you’re funny, your lore videos are excellently written, you’re accessible to your viewers- you’re just a really good guy with a great channel, and I’m proud to be a long time subscriber and honored to consider you a friend. Imagine that I’m holding an overflowing tankard of some Fenrisian mead- here’s to you, my brother! And I can’t wait to repeat this toast again when you hit 100,000!
Why, however, could Curze see the actual future, when Sanguinius (and even the Emperor) always saw multiple possible outcomes? Curze's power was more of a latent one and yet he foresaw the exact outcome independently of variables/ choices.
Did you ever consider that according to Curze he could see the "real" future? Primarchs might be mighty but their word is hardly any more final then any other in the far future. My theory is the powers of chaos corrupted Curze as they did many other Primarchs. Perhaps just like Perturabo saw the eye of terror in the sky at all times, Konrad Curze got a hint of perceiving the "true" future from the ruinous powers and his own perception of it and compliance to this truth made it true much more so then any "true" power?
I quite like the theory that all the Primarchs were intended to fill a role post crusade: Guillman the statesman, Johnson the general, Magnus the magus/throneholder etc with Kurze being the Judge except due to upbringing his sense of justice was warped (possibly by the chaos gods manipulating the visions). also remember seeing a theory that the stone in his crown was an Eldar soulstone, like the idea that protected from the gods he might have returned to a semblance of sanity. like the idea in the current story of one of the traitors returning and by dint of not being demons that's Kurze or Alpharius (with the three headed hydra theory that like the symbol of the legion the Primarch had three heads not just two)
i Wish it Was Corax who Helped Mentored Konrad instead of Fulgrim Just imagine What the two could’ve accomplished together if instead of a rivalry they got along
@@jeffmusyoka1876 Russ would throw Curze out in a few weeks, whining to everyone how absolutely depressing he was and how he wouldn't shut up about seeing Russ being dead instead of being alive doing awesome wolf stuff.
Corax and Curze both mutually dislike one another, Corax because he didn't want to accept Curze's methods and that he wasn't all different from Curze, Curze always think Corax being the odd hypocrite and thinks it's unfair that the Emperor (he thinks this a lot) didn't give him Corax's powers and his legion.
I haven't ever been a big fan of these guys but your videos on them have changed my mind on them, I have always thought of them as generic bad guys but there is so much more to them. I love a good tragedy and these guys are nothing if not tragic. Anyway, I'm glad I found your channel.
that's one of the best things someone can say to me - that i enlightened them on their opinion of a faction. i was VERY much the same way, "eh these guys just have lightning on their armor." The Night Lords trilogy should be required reading in school!! hahahah
Sanguinius and Kurze are my two favorite primarch’s, I love their talks together and I like to think Kurze was thinking of Sanguinius when he finally went to meet his fate at the end.
Way late to comment but this was amazing!!! I share your favorites in Primarchs although reversed. BA and Sanguinius for all time but Nighthaunter and the NL are my second fav and always will be.
Man, it's been a hella long time coming this one, finally the night haunter gets the attention he's been promised and deserves. Great job! Congrats on the 50k subs and keep the top drawer content coming plz. Cheers!
This has convinced me to repaint my Chaos Space Marines into Night Lords. They might not be that viable on the table top but god damn if they aren't the coolest Chaos legion.
Great videos and a great series. I personally think that you were dead on with the balance between rabbit holing every single interaction and going full broad strokes on his story. That's not an easy feat. You did give us enough intel so that we know enough to create opinions about the Night lords and Kurze but you left enough out so that the video isn't 8 hours long AND so that we can actually get somethin out of the books. Thanks man, keep 'em coming!
In most cases of the story it's mostly the emperor's fault for not having any foresight to the events that transpire from his actions of any negative consequences.
Brilliant vid. Love all the 40k stuff you are doing. Not gonna lie the Konrad Primarch book blew my mind in a lot of regards. It really illustrates Konrad's tragedy. I cannot remember which book it was from but I believe it was Sanguinius who laments that if they as brothers had just made more of an effort to love and guide Konrad he believes he wouldn't have fallen.
Oooof i can't remember.. i know exactly what book it is.. i don't think it's Ruinstorm.. it MIGHT be Fear to Tread, but then again, I think it's Unremembered Empire. Great call out, totally forgot abotu that!! :)
"I am a Primarch,’ ‘I am the most cursed of the Emperor’s cursed sons.’ - Korad Curze "Fear is the greatest of all weapons. Fear will cow a world when guns will not. We spill blood to save blood." "Terror is a clean blade. Its cut disarms opponents without doing them harm. Terror is the friend of compliance." "‘The few must die in pain so the many can live in peace. Fear is the road to civilization. It is paved with bone and washed with blood, but the destination forgives the sin of the journey." - Night Lords Legionary Ashmenkai Vor, teachings of the "Night Hunter" "‘The ends justify the means." - Konrad Curze Corax vs Konrad, It was a draw. Curze never beat Corvus. Ravenlord withdraw, he was not overpowered by Curze. He fought to saves he's sons.
Maybe I'm overthinking things but everything about this story sounds like "Hearts of Darkness" by Joseph Conrad. The central antagonist is a man named Kurz who goes off the deep end and is brought down by an agent of the British Empire. In the seventies a movie called "Apocalypse Now" was directed by Francis Ford Coppola. The story is an adaptation of Conrad's novel only set in the Viet Nam War. In the end of the film colonel Kurtz was assassinated by a lone soldier for crimes against humanity. I'm just saying. Has anyone else seen the parrallels?
It's supposed to be! :) Konrad Curze is an anagram of Conrad and Kurz. You nailed it my dude! I didn't talk about it in the video because I wanted to keep things on point, but I definitely should have brought that up. You're also spot on about Apocalypse Now! I remember watching it in literature class after reading Hearts of Darkness for that exact reason
@@italianspartacus I fucking knew it. I read "Hearts of Darkness" in Iraq and when I came home my dad and one of his Nam buddies explained the parallels between the two stories. I studied film and creative writing at my alma mater soon enough and it was fun blowing the 40K cat's mind with my supposed revelation. Lo and behold GW pulls a sneaky one on us but I "ain't no jive ass turkey" as my dad and his friends would say. This is why I love 40K. They really keep you on your toes in a literal sense.
There's a lot of really great parallels in 40k. The older Lore had this amazing background to it that was steeped in our literature and mythology. Vulkan doing the trials of Hercules. Russ with Odin. Even looking at the tragedy of Magnus and his fall. It's all so awesome. The Lore for this was written by what would be children of that Era, Vietnam that is - albeit, it's written by the British, but the effect that Vietnam had on so many other forms of media is pretty crazy.. Especially music: Carry on my wayward son by Kansas, all about Nam. Thanks for serving by the way. My brother retired three years back from the Navy - he was a Hawkeye pilot. Service runs in the family! I just make nerdy videos Hahah
@@italianspartacus also the Ultra Marines are an amalgamation of the Roman's and Camelot. It's funny, when I explain Ultramar people think of an Aryan facist society based on perfection. They're not wrong as everything that has to do with the Empire of Man is wrong. One would not be incorrect in thinking that giving up to the ruinous powers might be liberating but the eventual cost is even more disgusting and mortifying. I just stick with my boys Vulcan and the great Khan! Flawed though they may be they actually embody what's left of humanity's nobler traits. Several members of the guard are no differwnt.
The khan is probably one of my more favorite of the recent Lore additions to the primarchs. I enjoy his Lore that is heavily hunnic/turkic tribesmen against the byzantines or really any established imperial power of the time. The enigmatic role he plays as well is just so damn good
I love Konrad, I feel so bad for him. He might be one of the most "human" of the Primarchs, because he's so flawed, and tortured by visions he couldn't understand and that nobody would explain to him. Hated by his brothers because he did what the emperor created him to do. Only Sanguinius had any love for the night haunter. Poor sweet Konrad Curze.
Mentioning the gestation pod and how he's "batman" makes me wonder if anyone has written fan-fiction where a Primarch lands in the Kents' backyard and gets raised instead of Superman.
Spartacus - what are your thoughts on how the space marines resolve their use of psykers against the Council of Nikea? I'm interested to hear what you think, or if there's been any mention of it in the lore that I haven't read myself. Potential video? I just find it fascinating that they directly go against the Emperor's own wishes and must know they're doing so.
Hey just got into your videos, was wondering if you were gonna finish your primarch series? Roboute guillman/ fulgrim are ones I want to see. Really enjoy the videos
@@italianspartacus As a fan of both Primarchs I'd really like some source or insight regarding that tussle, you have Kurze stopping Corax's killing blow and telling Corax "Look into my eyes and see your death" (The First Heretic) which was about the extent of that but that pales in comparison to when Kurze was snuck up on by Corax and even conceded "if they struck, we would be dead" (KC: The Night Haunter) and in the very same book Konrad admitted Corvus's superiority at his own self-imposed role. And of course there was that time Corax got snippy with Robute for Robute even making a comparison between the two(CC: Lord of Shadows). I'd love to have seen a fight between the two, but the only "fight" he won with Corax was to cringe him away from being a skin-wearing monster.
I wouldn't say he beat Corax. He just knew having to fight two Primachs even a weakened Lorgar during the mess that was the dropsite massacre wasn't going to end well. As well he needed to get his Legion out. Their fight was just Cruze blocking one blow.
Hold on here, the end comment made me think for a moment Ave Dominus nox stands for "We have come for you" in high Gothic right? Or was I wrong all these years?
Hehe you are indeed wrong I'm afraid! Ave Dominus Nox means Hail the lord of the night :) Ave is Hail in Latin, Nox is night and Dominus is lord.. It SHOULD be Ave Domini Nox, but high Gothic is GWs Latin Lite Heheh
@@italianspartacus It should be Ave Domine Noctis if we're going with Latin. Domine is dominus in the vocative singular case (used when addressing someone/something) and noctis is the genitive singular of nox (possessive case).
Nathaniel Robinson why vocative? It’s not addressing “the lord” but its rather more of a command to others that they should hail him. The sentence reads “(you) hail the lord of the night” where ‘you’ is some unspecified entity. In that case lord would either take nominative if you consider it the subject or accusative if it’s considered the direct object of ave. Idk my sleep deprived brain is short circuiting
@@thinkwithurdipstick It's vocative because that's the case for when a noun is the object that speech is addressed to. Whilst Ave is technically the second person singular imperative of aveo, in usage it was just a formal expression of greetings - Hail etc. I have admittedly always read the phrase as a recognition of Curze: "Hail the Night Lord". In the same way as you sometimes get when people call on a Muse or a deity - the entity doesn't have to be present to be called out to. I don't think that it is a demand that others hail him because if it was it would use the second person plural imperative Avete. As well as being Hail [to] the Lord of Night. Which would mean lord would be in the dative case. This would be Avete Domino Noctis. Additionally, lord can't take the nominative because the lord isn't doing anything in the phrase and can't be accusative because nothing in the phrase is being done to him. He's only the object of direct speech which is what the vocative case is for. If we're going with your reading of the phrase it could be dative. But I do think that's less likely because there are several differences. But it must be said that GW doesn't care that much about Latin accuracy and your interpretation of the meaning of the phrase is just as valid. So sticking strictly to Latin it should either be "Ave Domine Noctis" or "Ave/Avete Domino Noctis" - though I think avete makes more sense. Apologies for the mammoth reply, but I didn't want to fob you off with incomplete reasoning. And I want to reiterate that I'm talking solely about the Latin here - your interpretation of the 40k is as valid as mine.
The two brothers that were the most alike out of any of the primarchs was the Lion and Kruze. I think you miss out on that. Its not the angel and Kruze. Remember both Lion and kruze grew up alone and were like animals.
