The Problem With Donkey Kong in Smash Bros. 

ignore the fact that the icies got their win theme slaughtered from melee to brawl to ultimate

I can't believe I genuinely didn't understand what was wrong until the "I really won the game"

Diddy Kong not having their boombox dance as a victory pose is a crime

Many fan remixes of Yoshi's Island athletic theme completely remove the counter melody.

I came into this expecting a "too many Jungle Hijinx remixes" rant, but I got something much better. Fun fact, did you know Tropical Freeze has an earlier "Bonus Win" theme that can be heard in a Gamespot preview (the Cannon Canyon coverage)? Even that one gets the notes right, as it should!

THAT KIRBY ONE HURT SO BADLY

When i saw the thumbnail, i thought this was gonna be about Donkey Kong's moveset (4 smash games just for a roll, and he still missing his voice or barrels) or its neglected representation for the most part (it took 3 games since Brawl to finally get a assist trophy and took an entire fighter ballot or two to finally get K. Rool in) The Victory theme was the last thing i would ever think about, cause its the least of DK's problems

This is the musical equivalent to me noticing Talonflame's wing feather closest to its body clips everytime it flaps its wings since XY which they eventually fixed in Scarlet and Violet. But how did the modelers never noticed it until then is beyond me

What’s even sadder is that this is only one of many things wrong with DK’s music in Smash like seriously, where the hell is the music from both versions of DKC3

Oh my god I never even realized what DK’s victory theme was supposed to be, partly because of the missing notes

I know this is A nitpick. ignoring that DK sounds like A real gorilla in smash bros. It also bothers me that DK looks so mad in A lot of his moves. In his series he's such A goofy guy who's also pretty chill. If anything, he would be A lot more playful about A fight like in Punch out wii. OK RANT OVER.

Smash 64 has a lot of weird quirks. Like Brinstar for example has no actual references in the stage compared to the game, just the same aesthetics.

I will never be able to unhear this. Fr tho it's odd how they got this wrong, I wonder if when redoing songs for future iterations they don't look at the original version of it but rather at the past smash games iterration, carrying on the same mistake over and over.

Really thought this was gonna be about his bad moveset or the gorilla noises, which are definitely Donkey Kong problems but was plesantly surprised with the musical topic, as a music fan, but also slightly infuriated I will never be able to unhear this. Great video!

I only noticed this one very recently, since I only played the original game recently, but the version of "Eternal Bond" in Smash is slightly different to the Radiant Dawn version. In the original, at the end of the loop, the precussion cuts out entirely for a bried period to out emphasis on the melody, then repeats the melody with precussion to add intensity. In the Smash version the orecussion cuts out only to awkwardly fade in immediately after, at which point the song repeats the same melody twice for no particular reason anymore. This is in spite of the fact that both are the exact same song otherwise. It's not like it's a rearrangement or anything.

People complain about missing Kongs in DK rap... but that remix is so bad that I didn't care, but now you tell me about this and I start thinking: they get wrong in 64, and they use that version to base on because the music is "already done" in the smash archives and never listen the original again to remake it.

So basically: two note wrong, me no likey.

I love analytical dissections like this, esp all the examples at the end. Keep up the great work! 💖👌

Can we talk about how Sora’s victory theme, Hand in Hand, was altered so that it sounds somewhat similar to Wish Upon a Star?

It's funny, I clicked on this video expecting how the Tropical Freeze OST got completely and utterly snubbed in Ultimate (which it unquestionably did), and instead got a rant about a jingle I have barely thought of in years along with some very cursed new jingle remixes. I'm still upset about the Tropical Freeze thing (seriously, there are so SO many songs that would work extremely well in Smash but just weren't included in favor of... first level theme? Really?), but I guess I have a new thing to be annoyed about.

Does this keep you up at night.

Do you have opinions on the DK rap being incomplete in games after Melee?

I know I said this on an earlier video of yours but I love videos that rant about the most minor of things for far longer than what is necessary. Also as a certified Kirby fanboy, the Kirby dance edit at the end of the video made me wince so hard. That was disgusting.

My man's is on a crash and burn mission with that last part. Great discussion!

DK and Bowser was Sakurai’s excuse to have Godzilla vs King Kong Change my mind

I’ve always had issues with the Smash DK victory theme and never realized this was why until now

What I noticed at the end was that the pieces I wasn't super familiar with sounded fine to me, but the pieces I knew well felt off. Overall, I think you did a good job of illustrating your point. Also, before I clicked on the vid, I thought this would be about how the DK Rap cut out Lanky and Chunky despite being present in Brawl.

My fav example of Sakurai disregarding the DK series for no good reason is when they cut Lanky and Chunky’s verse out of the DK Rap. Now this could make sense since the Wii U was a less powerful console than the Switch so they cut it down like they did other old Smash songs. So then WHY did they not put them back in Ultimate? You’re telling me in the game with two One Winged Angel versions and 50+ SNK song you couldn’t just use the version with Lanky and Chunky? They just ported it from Smash 4 without a second thought, and those two verses are now lost to time, a shame.

This was amazing, I didn’t know how you could stretch a 13 min vid from one jingle but I was fully engaged and my jaw dropped from the tropical freeze example, Inlove dk and smash but dangit that character, needs some better representation

Thank you for making this video. I've played smash bros pretty much my whole life so when I actualy played Donkey Kong the real victory theme sounded off in a way I couldn't describe and now I know why.

Oh God those rearrangements at the end sounded so off lol

I’m so glad I’m not the only one who has had this rolling around in my brain for years

I also hate how in Ultimate they cut off the last few staccato 8th notes of Yoshi's victory theme, despite those notes being IN Smash 4's version of his victory fanfare. Like literally all they had to do was keep it the same as it was in Smash 4, like they did with like every other character, but nooooo they removed it for no reason and it bothers the fuck out of me every time I win a match while playing as Yoshi.

Despite it being two notes missing, and despite the fact that I had definitely heard the bonus theme before playing Smash Bros for the first time, I always forget that DK's victory theme in Smash was actually the bonus theme from his games. It's strange to think about, but the missing notes in combination with the instrumentation being flutes instead of brass always throws me off into thinking "That's an awfully obscure piece of DK music." That's a huge problem that I can't believe got through every single Smash game. If you did that to Megalovania, removing every third note, you'd recognize it from the instruments. If you play all the notes on piano, you'd recognize it from the melody regardless of tempo. Skip every third note of Megalovania on piano and suddenly it sounds like a cheap knockoff or worse, like a brand new song, unless you have prior knowledge. Someone like me who only played DKCR a few times and DKCTF when the game was on Wii U would probably have similar trouble. Glad I now know why that victory theme always bugged me so much... Now I'll never un-hear it, so thanks.

Honestly I think the thing that bothers me the most about Donkey Kong representation in Ultimate is the lack of Spirits for Returns and Tropical Freeze, as there's only three novices and nothing more. It stinks, especially as a wii kid who not only loved Returns, but had it as one of their first ever games.

The other detail I've noticed is that by removing the pickup note and raised note, they also removed the descending countermelody. Combined with the more "in time" nature of the smsh version, it ends up making the aforementioned smash versions feel washed out or watered down in compariosn to the original. Combined with DK's lackluster moveset and lack of his iconic vouce, makes this version of Nintendo's great ape feel like a knockoff rather than celebrating the real deal.

New treand got made, png tuber who grow up in the 90s and yap about Nintendo, AND IM LOVIN IT

I was expecting this video to look at how the DK series is represented as a whole in Smash, so this was a nice surprise. I always thought there was something wrong with the Smash version, but I could just not put my finger on why that was the case. Glad you made this video, you clearly seem to be a professional at this unlike me so that's Kongtastic!

given the video's length I expected this to be another "punches and kicks" rant, and needless to say I was surprised

I'M NOT INSANE, SOMEONE GETS ME

That last bit of the video was an insanely good illustration on the topic

this is by far one of my favorite videos on youtube now. beautifully articulated, buckets of calculated pettiness, an obscene amount of research. what more could you want?? these two damn notes back

Yo that Melee version at the end sounds awesome

We’re hitting levels of autism never thought possible…I LOVE IT!

I love these tiny gripes. They're hilarious, always unexpected, but surprisingly relatable.

I can see why u don't enjoy DK's victory theme in smash, and I do love the original, but I still like the smash versions imo... The one since Brawl I hate tho cuz of the pitch like c'mon why did they make it to that high!?

Okay you know what I wanna hear more quirks about Smash remixes. Give them to me

I knew there was something wrong with this theme when you first told me to listen but I couldn't put it to words. Also that Kirby remix activated my fight or flight response.

This was a super well-made and funny video, but I'm curious on why you say taking away a few notes is really any different than adding notes. It's still changing the "lyrics" of the song, so you're still not keeping the original intact. So what makes the Tropical Freeze version okay when the Smash Bros. version isn't? Personally I think both adding and removing notes for a remix is fine so long as it serves the remix in sounding good. I was originally going to comment that I thought Metal Man's theme was a bad example, but after going to listen to it, I have to admit I think the remix is really good in its own way, and they probably just saw fit to mostly remove the counterbeats since it would fit the style of what they were trying to make better. I guess all I'm trying to say is I don't understand why Tropical Freeze gets a pass if Smash Bros. doesn't. As far as personal preference is concerned though, yeah, I totally understand if you're not a fan of the Smash Bros. one. I don't mind it myself, but again, that's just opinion. Anyway, even if I'm not sure I agree with it, don't let that take away from that I really did enjoy the video!

to me it's more annoying that ultimate made a Snakey Chantey remix just to hide a third Gangplank Galleon remix

This is one of the most petty, minuscule, ridiculous complaints I’ve ever heard about ultimate. Top tier content. You’re so right for this honestly. Keep it up.

The melee music example sent me into fight or flight good vid

I thought i was the only one who thought the smash rendition of the bonus game jingle was so off

They're clearly referencing the super smash bros 64 version of the song of course. Which references itself. 👍 In all seriousness, you made your point very well. 😂

I never noticed that with DK's Victory, so I certainly learned something today. On a somewhat related note, I recall being disappointed upon hearing Gladion's Theme in Ultimate. When I saw it was getting a remix, I imagined something like what GaMetal made. A high-energy theme with guitars rocking out. Instead, what I got was a low-energy theme that sounded more fitting for an emotional moment with Gladion than a battle. Additionally, thanks to a friend, I realized Cynthia's theme also sort of lacks that same energy. I just never noticed because I never really listened to the original. And of course, there's the shortening of the DK Rap, Brinstar (Melee), and Pollyanna. On one hand, I sort of understand why they did so, since they weren't initially sure how much music they could fit into Ultimate. On the other hand. Bayonetta came in with a few of her five-minute long songs (and that's before DLC was a thing) so the gimping of them stands out. I hope Smash 6 gives Gladion and Cynthia justice, while restoring the proper lengths of DK Rap, Brinstar (Melee), and Pollyanna.

I did expect this to be about the voice thing, but instead I found a kindred spirit in music. For me, my thing is the song Harmony from RuneScape. In the original (aka RuneScape 2 or OSRS), the song has a distinct harmonic progression that to me is the heart of the song. In modern RuneScape (aka RuneScape 3), the harmony of Harmony is changed in a way that removes that heart. Going in depth below I grew up with a lot of musicality, and properly learned all about music in 7 years of school band, so I'll be using a few music theory terms to describe my grievance. To start, Harmony as a song is played in A minor at 3/4 time, and its main musical phrase is 8 bars long. Focusing on the harmonic progression, the first half of these 8 bars starts with the minor 1 chord, goes into the major 3, hits on the minor 5, then lifts into the major 6 with a quick touch of the major 7, before it loops back into the minor 1 for the second half of the phrase. I'll be using a visualization I came up with right now to represent this, so I'm sorry in advance for any confusion: [ i . . / III . . / v . . / VI . VII // ] The way that RuneScape 3 changes this is it cuts out that major 6 chord (VI), instead filling the 4th bar with the major 7 (VII) from the get-go [ i . . / III . . / v . . / VII . . // ]. This lessens the harmonic motion and removes a key way in which the major 6 recontextualizes the melody. The melody in this same space is fairly simple, going [ 12 31 23 / 54 ,7 _ / 43 2 _ / 32 1 ,7 // ] (I'm sorry again for how bad this is xP). With the classic harmonization, that final 321 movement in the melody in conjunction with the major 6 creates a lydian chord tone, giving a distinct note of brightness that feels uplifting. With RuneScape 3's harmonization, that strong bright statement made between the melody and harmony is lost, with them just sliding by each other It's very difficult for me to properly describe this in text if you're not familiar with music theory or with both versions of the song, but in short, they changed the harmony of Harmony, and made it sound less harmonic in the process. Out of all the reasons I might have to not play RuneScape 3, this is by far my pettiest, and I will stand by it to the end of time

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA I CANT UNHEAR IT NOW I HATE IT

Ngl, the second omission from the melee menu screen is fire

This annoys me too, and with the conscious decision to make the remix less bombastically triumphant and more calmly ambient, this victory theme I hate the most out of any other in smash, thankfully K. Rool doesn't use it

We need a petition

Could be just an intentional variation on it just to make it a bit more simple

That last bit was genius. The melee menu theme got me pissed off.

originally thought it was a silly kinda problem, by like 4 minutes in you convinced me - great video. maybe for smash 6 they'll fix it?

Perhaps it was made to fit the time it takes for an average victory animation to play out. Sort of how Sonic’s “You’re too slow!” taunt was replaced by a shorter “Sonic Speed!”

I never noticed this but now that someone has pointed it out I hate it so much, ive been enlightened

How do you know my music taste

Why did they not give a fuck about like half of the rosters osts 😭

Man, I thought you were going to be discussing mechanics of the character, not burdening me with Eldritch knowledge that I have to be presently aware of for the remainder of my life.

Anything dk and smash related I love, this video was no different. Great vid. Ending had me cracking up.

this is kinda how i feel with some gangplank galleon remixes, they all miss the rising synth at the beginning that makes the song cool after looking at multiple remixes only one on youtube actually had that but they changed it to an electric guitar to make it even cooler

Nice rant bro! 👍 (Also yeah taking out notes is a nitpick I also have, but I never brought it up, you are incredibly right)

In general I'm not a fan of the Smash Bros. victory themes... They're TOO orchestral. And I know that sounds like kind of an odd complaint, but I feel like they just don't... Pop as much? I don't know the right words for it. They don't sound like the snappy victorious feeling you should expect from a victory theme.

Always knew it sound different, couldn't put my fihger on why exactly. My guess is that they skipped what they thought was "redundant" and do a more simple composition and since it's going waay faster is barely noticeable.

The melody may be wrong, but a DK victory puts a smile on my face.

You have made your point splendidly in this video! I also love it when people just go off about something most ppl find miniscule or didn't even notice! Bravo

I have a lot of problems with the Donkey Kong representation in Smash Bros: his, Diddy’s, and K. Rool's voices; the Jungle Japes stage being listed as a Donkey Kong 64 stage despite there being no place like that in Donkey Kong 64; his fur texture; his move set having very few references to Donkey Kong Country. I have a couple more, but I’ll leave it at this

I honestly thought it was about DK not having a voice, and they stuck to whatever the heck we have. Not Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, King K. Rool, King Dedede and not even Bowser have the voices we know, just Bowser Jr. JUST HIM ALONE!

I always knew there was something off about the smash version

I thought this video was going to be about how there's like 50 different Jungle Hijinks remixes.

I mean, I don’t hate most of the songs at the end. The only one that rubbed me the wrong way was the Kirby one. Hell, the Zelda theme sounded a little more relaxing. That being said, I don’t really have any strong opinions on music

Dang, and my problem with Donkey Kong in smash is that he just doesn't feel like "Donkey Kong" at all.

I thought you were gonna primarily talk bout DKs voice being not DK, but this is wack too

Damn. How did I not notice this before?

Huh, pretty interesting. I'm not much of a DK fan so I never thought anything was wrong. I'm also not a Zelda fan so I don't know what you did to Zelda's Lullaby. However I am a Xenoblade fan so I do understand the criticisms of the Smash version of Counterattack not being right so I've gotta get behind your movement to get it rearranged. I just need the original Counterattack to be in the game.

Man on the topic of weird decisions that only just a few people care about when it comes to the music in Smash... I can't be the only person who's also upset the only Hideki Naganuma song got removed from Smash right? Right There, Ride On was the closest thing we had to a JSR song in the game. And even then Sonic Rush deserves a track in there.

I've watched this video several times lol. I'm obsessed with it and i don't know why. 😂

i thought this was gonna be about donkey kong’s moveset

your avatar is goated

OMG THAT'S WHY IT SOUNDS SO ODD TO ME OMG OMG OMG

holy shit how did this guy manage to rant for 13 minutes about a 7 second long jingle and still keep it interesting

Incredibly well put point

I have never played DK Country, I grew up with the Smash version. That's why I'm OK with this.

You know, I was gonna let you be, but after that ending, I'm not agreeing with you for putting me through that torture.

I feel like if Peridot from Steven Universe were to make a RU-vid video it would be something like this

As I will never forgive Sakurai 🍌

13 minutes of straight up facts

Smash team treats david wise's work like white after labor day. Besides K Rool's boss themes they don't use much of DKC's osts, tropical freeze gets just ONE track. Call me tinfoil hat wearing but it feels like having an unchanged western anything in the game makes them squirm.

What's wrong with Zero Suit Samus and Palutena?

Ok I’ve heard you out, and the examples at the very end were very helpful and are appreciated to help make a point. However… Counter Attack in Smash is just bad. I didn’t even know about the electric guitar bit, it just sounds wrong and makes me not want to hear it. Same with Metal Man now that you mention it.

12:40 What are you talking about? They're the same songs!