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"Wannabes." "Fakers." "Tourists." "Fake G-tards." "Noobs." "Former superhero fans jumping on the kaijū bandwagon after their genre has been on a rapid decline." Take your pick.
What I find to be the funniest argument is the whole "Toho treats Godzilla with respect now. They'd never let him do anything silly or over the top." when not even a year ago we got the Jet Jaguar short where he performs another flying drop kick and shakes hands with Jet afterwards. Not to mention the Godzilla chibi series, or that puppet show they have for kids. Godzilla's biggest strength is being able to fluctuate between being both series and silly, as evident with how fans seem like New Empire despite it being a lot more over the top. Both can exist at the same time, there's no reason they shouldn't.
Thinking that Godzilla can't be silly just proves that they've just watched Shin, Minus One and Monsterverse Godzilla's. Even if you never watched the older movies (I haven't), you CAN'T have not seen the goofy ahh flying kick or him dancing
Toho’s official RU-vid channel has been uploading episodes of Godzilla Island. A batshit insane series of toy commercials that are completely ridiculous
That short film was fuckin epic, and clearly from seeing Minus One and that, many at Toho love what the Monsterverse is doing and homage scenes to it as much as other classic movies in the franchise, its beautiful.
EXACTLY! Remember those Toho Godzilla movies where Godzilla is just like monster verse Godzilla, fighting other monsters, they these same people wanna sh*t on monster verse😤😡
These supposed 'experts' thinking they know whats best for the franchise yet they don't realize they will be the very reason of ending it. The versatility of the franchise is what helped Godzilla endured throughout the decades. You could do so much of the same allegory over and over again until it comes to the point where it becomes stale and repetitive. Which is one of the reasons for the many downfalls of movie franchises these days and Godzilla is at risk of becoming such a victim if this mindset is continued being pushed.
Yeah. What I realize is that it's only coming from the toxic Godzilla meat riders. Like, why can't we enjoy both adaptations of Godzilla media. Sure, Legendary could've gone darker and gritty, but the Showa esque familiarity is just as fun.
Skipper said he hated the G man and his franchise in the start of the video and repeated himself multiple time in said video, It is clear he made it only for views.
The way I see it, money talks. Had the predictions come true about GXK failing after Minus One did gangbusters, there would be more cause for concern. However, both movies raked in the cash. The allegory and the escapism both succeeded, proving all of those Problem videos dead wrong. A hundred thousand views on a video that says, "Minus One good, MonsterVerse dumb," is not going to trump millions of dollars at the box office. Let's also not forget that this success also puts Godzilla ahead of franchises that were supposedly surefire hits, including Ghostbusters and the MCU. If this were a race, the kaiju would be pulling far ahead while the favored runners trip over their own feet. Can the wrong lessons still be learned? Yes, there's always that possibility. At the moment, though, I'm not overly worried.
Holy cow, the omni viewer! I used to watch your videos on a very, very regular basis! It's so awesome to see you here. I made this video mainly to express my thoughts and concerns that I have with the franchise right now. Especially since I'm preparing to go back and rank all the Godzilla movies by era.
@@fishmobsmovietv514 hi can you do Godzilla X kong the new empire and talk about why it’s ok for the monstersverse to be different from Godzilla minus one pls
@@arcticwarriors7014 I am planning on something like that for King kong, but I'm waiting for Godzilla Kong the new empire to be released on DVD so I can use footage.
This quote is about Batman, but it applies to Godzilla all the same. *_"Batman's rich history allows him to be interpreted in a multitude of ways. To be sure, this is a lighter incarnation, but is certainly no less valid and true to the character's roots as the tortured avenger, crying out for mommy and daddy."_** ~ Bat Mite, Batman: The Brave and The Bold.*
@@TagmonThat's not the point. The point is that those who advocate for Godzilla to remain as just one thing (a dark war allegory) because they quickly dismiss his lighter iterations out of shame do not understand his versatility as a character and is the very reason he has lasted for so long. If a lighter take on the character feels like making a clown out of him for some, fine, but they shouldn't belittle those who enjoy the lighter takes. If they love their dark takes so much, then they should just quietly take what they love, and leave.
You guys both make good points. Honestly, the important part for me is that the adaptation doesn't involve character assasination or asspulls like a certain dumpsterfire of a game that recently came out to a lot of outrage.
In my opinion it's best to ignore people like that. They're not true Godzilla fans, they're just speaking nonsense. If they were true Godzilla fans then they'd know that Godzilla has always been a flexible character. He can be whatever you want, the story can be whatever you want. He's had multiple stories and incarnations both serious, goofy, and in between.
So technically speaking if a person wanted to they could make a story where godzilla just starts hoping universes into different franchises (sonic, mario how to train your dragon, etc) for the hell of it? Cause that sounds cool
If you ignore posers and grifters then the negativity will just spread and infect the fandom. Don't believe me? Look what happened to DC. Look what happened to Star Wars. Even before the woke Star Wars, fans were divided between OG trilogy and prequels and the expanded universe. Gatekeeping is important. Even rich people's social clubs have requirements to enter.
I think with the HUGE success of The New Empire that fear will fade away, Godzilla have proven why no matter what you do with him as long you put passion and effort will pay off. I love serious Goji but I also equally LOVE silly and over the top Goji, so as long Hollywood and Japan see how much money this IP is doing no matter these idiotic videos of people who CLEARLY only watch MINUS ONE and claim to be long time fans when if that was TRUE they would never do those dumb videos, I think Toho will ignored that, I think they know better what they want to do with Goji, and even so, Monsterverse is doing fantastic so we can actually afford have Japan do the serious dark Godzilla films, while Hollywood do the silly, fun over the top ones.
Not to mention he’s a giant monster that’s famous for fighting other giant monsters so any level of seriousness will always have some level of goof, it’s just part of the character.
And at last, everything would be in harmony. Nobody would care about the critics anymore, and one group of people could enjoy the serious movies, while the other could enjoy the fun movies.
It's so nice to see people defending the Monsterverse and the other less serious films. I always hate when people diss something because it's not serious, not like this or that, when everyone has their preferences. As the video said, it's the versatility that makes Godzilla so endearing. It really disappoints me to see people try and bring down part of the franchise for their own interests. Godzilla is Godzilla and he will be cool no matter what, and some people just can't understand that sadly.
Just because something isn't serious does not mean it's bad. I'm one of the few people who thinks Hercules is better than Beauty and the Beast. I think when it comes to these people, they just like consistency and don't like seeing things be different from one interpretation to another.
Shortly after Shin Godzilla released, a podcast I used to listen to called Kaijusaurus was going over how some fans complained about the lack of focus on character in Shin Godzilla. Then they brought up how people complained that Godzilla 2014 focused too much on the human characters. They then went even further back and brought up how some people don't like Final Wars because it's too goofy. Then they said something along the lines of "tonally, all three of the most recent movies cover everything Godzilla. If you don't like any of these three movies, then you're probably not a Godzilla fan." That's how I feel a lot recently listening to peopes takes on the Godzilla franchise.
The point of having THIS many Godzilla movies is to experiment with the character and portray him in different ways. Son of Godzilla, for instance, made Godzilla a father. GMK made Godzilla a malicious monster hell bent on destroying the world. The Monsterverse made Godzilla a protector of the planet, and Shin Godzilla made him into a radioactive abomination (even more so than the original) This is good. Do you think that a series that’s been running for this long wouldn’t get boring if every movie had the same message? That’s what you call stagnation, and the Godzilla franchise is very good at avoiding it. You want a serious movie, then go watch Shin, minus one and many other Toho movies. Don’t expect the MV to be serious, because it simply isn’t. But that’s a good thing, we want variety after all.
As a G-fan, I personally want to see Toho experiment with the idea of Godzilla in a Fuedal Japan or Edo Japan setting, perhaps using Godzilla as a supernatural punisher of man's arrogance for destruction (considering guns were being brought into Japan and created a whole new dynasty). It's not a polished idea I had in my head, but it would honestly make for a fascinating exploration of the character's usage.
@@ajerqureshi6411 Ooh that could be interesting. Would probably center more around how the humans at that time coexisted with Godzilla, since you can’t really fight him with bows and samurai swords. But it would be a nice spin on the MV’s idea about humans having to deal with massive monsters running around
I can think of another franchise that suffered from repeated allegory usage: the X-Men film series. The titular characters, for the bulk of their films, act as allegories for victims of racism and bigotry. And while those are valid and unfortunately still relevant issues, it’s not the only thing these characters are about. I’ve been a Godzilla fan since I was 5 years old and I still get excited when a new Godzilla movie is announced 30+ years later. Do I enjoy the dark, gritty and serious Godzilla movies? Yes! Do I enjoy the silly, over-the-top and cheesy Godzilla movies? Absolutely! I like both styles because they encompass his whole character and to deny just one aspect of that is to deny his entire being. It’s because of both styles that Godzilla has stayed relevant for the past 70 YEARS! And I’m hoping to be around when he hits 100. An allegorical character does not have lasting impact if they are only allowed to be connected to one specific aspect. Originally, Godzilla was a symbol for the dangers of nuclear weaponry but kinda became a metaphor for nuclear energy as a whole: yes, it still is dangerous and highly destructive but it has been instrumental in providing power for homes and has a branch in medicine. It’s a controversial topic just as Godzilla is a controversial character in-universe or in-multiverse; a monster that can cause significant damage to people but can also protect people from other threats. That sort of thinking can be applied to many subjects and Godzilla could probably make it work. And no one can say that the creators of Godzilla would be ashamed of him being silly, they were the ones who made him that way. The key fact is that they allowed Godzilla, as a character, to evolve beyond what he was originally conceived to be.
Yeah. X-Men really ended up getting shafted a lot BECAUSE they were the big allegory group. There is only so much you can do with them without it feeling contrived due to the many corners Marvel tends to write itself into.
To be fair, the X-Men have lasted a really long time in the comics and still have a legacy because of it's allegory. Of course, there's only so much you can do with just that singular allegory, so the Marvel editorial team constantly struggled to try and find ways to change up the X-Men, hence why we got things like the Krakoa era. It's a just a shame that in the process, the writing had to suffer.
I saw like a minute of Movie Cynic’s video and had to stop when I saw the video chapter’s name. I saw comments defending his take by saying stuff like “G fans getting mad over an opinion!” Cynic literally put the word “stop” in his thumbnail. Stop what? Stop making monsterverse movies because he doesn’t like it? Also, I brought up the fact that I stopped watching when I saw the chapter title. It was “”It honors the Showa Era” isn’t a defence” why tf not?! Please tell me, almighty critic. Why is saying that the movie honors the Showa era not an excuse?!
I had a friend like that. He would berate and be mean to me for enjoying RWBY both as a guilty pleasure and unironic entertainment. His main argument was simply "it was a sh!t show, and I had sh!t taste, and I should find something better." Ignore those kinds of people, because they clearly have no real argument.
I can see a pattern. It's called: "GODZILLA IS F*CKING BACK BABY!!!" (jokes aside, given how G-fans have behaved ever since 2014 came out... yeah you're probably onto something)
@BobbinRobbin777 I maybe wrong on this but everytime after we get a Monsterverse movie, a godzilla movie from toho comes out and they might make a few more before the Monsterverse makes another movie
People have always said this about Godzilla. I think the success of the Monstervers and Minus One shows that Godzilla can be anything you want or need. A bad guy, a hero, an obstacle, whatever is needed to tell the story.
The problem with minus one is most of these guys who critique it and use it to shat on the monster verse,had their first experience with toho's serious side of godzilla with minus one.Even though shin,which in my opinion is an amazing movie,was overlooked because it was percieved as Bad for not being like 2014.Noe the reversed has happened and people are talking bad about the monster verse because of minus one.Its very strange,because these same people havent watched any of the heisei,or millenium eras either which are serious
Conversely though, Millennium and Heisei balance serious with cheese MV and Showa are pure superhero comedy skits. Showa was ultimately a byproduct of a time where Toho was facing bankruptcy and therefore turned towards the "lowest common denominator" which was children. I enjoy some Showa films, such as vs Mothra, and the Mechagodzilla duology. But they WERE films made to bring in just enough money to keep the studio going. MV doesn't have that. It can and should be more ambitious. I don't think anyone is asking for an esoteric political satire or post war commentary. What I think people want is something that isn't a 2 hour flanderization of the franchise. You can have monsters, you can have a streak of comedy, you can have simple but functional human characters. I mean, look at Pacific Rim. Then they decided to go "kaijus funni" with Uprising, throw in gimmick human characters, and well... now you get a movie that no one wants to acknowledge exists. But the issue, within the fandom now, is that absolutely no criticism is permitted of the MV. Because if you so much as say anything other than "TEN OUT OF TEN MOVIE! GREATEST CREATION OF ALL HUMANKIND! IT DOESN'T GET BETTER THAN THIS" you are immediately shut down and shoved out as a Toho elitist or someone demanding Minus One. 2014 and more so, especially so in fact, Skull Island are examples that you can have epic monsters and all that while having a serviceable story and cast.
How ironic when you put it that way. Japanese Shin Godzilla gets hated because it's not like the American Monsterverse Godzilla. And now American Monsterverse Godzilla gets hated because it's not like the Japanese Minus One Godzilla. I wouldn't be surprised in the future if that ends up happening again full circle.
@@UlsterHound77 MV had a very obvious downturn in quality that its fans have seemingly stockholm'ed themselves into believing that's always what they wanted and what it was meant to be. 2014, Skull Island and even KOTM were not this shlocky pseudo-Showa shit (though it certainly lost its initially darker tone and KOTM was shit) but because the """""tourists""""" (mainstream normal people) are basically watching Minus One and GxK back to back they all got insecure and shit themselves, with Doctor Skipper's video just being a timely catalyst for that spiral. It's genuinely insane that you will actually see a *lot* of people actively fight back against wanting the Monsterverse to get closer to Minus One in writing quality and tone, pretending as if it's some arthouse movie, when both King Kong (2005) and Pacific Rim are already leagues beyond it because they're both representatives of recent "serious vs fun" monster movies done right. It can be done, the people behind MV are just going through the motions and have no idea where they want to take things. Btw, something you'll never see an ardent Monsterverse fan acknowledge is that Wanda Group, the company that bought Legendary, is behind both Uprising and the Monstervers movies after KSI. Big mystery as to why all of them suck ass.
Update: The Little Platoon is calling everyone who disagrees with him about GXK “Stupid” and “Autistic” Real Mature Dude…Also the Movie Cynic is using the victim mentality.
(Sorry, I have to write an essay here) Okay, first of all, I'm gonna say something many godzilla fans would probably want me to be executed for lol: I love the anime trilogy. In fact, they are some of my favourite movies. Not only godzilla but movies in general. But that not the topic. So, I agree on most of what was mentioned in the video. And I say that as someone who prefers the more serious side of godzilla. I'm a godzilla fan for three years now, I started to write my own stories about him before I even watched a single movie. The first godzilla movie I saw was Dhin Godzilla. A dark, serious movie and I've watched it for more than 30 times now I think. Second one was Godzilla 2014, another serious movie. Later, I watched three showa movies. The showa movies were goofy and fun to watch and I also watched them several times now. I also like godzilla final wars. I like both sides of godzilla. I saw Minus One than and no one tells me "it's overrated" please. I was simply blown away by that movie. I like it more than the original from 1954 which was my favourite movie until than. I am very interested in WW2 and all that, so this movie was the perfect thing for me as it dealt with the trauma of war, survivor's guilt, the hopelessness you might feel in front of a threat far beyond our imagination, and also the will to overcome it, to survive despite the thought of having nothing to live for anymore. I'm still thinking about this movie every day. This movie has struck me harder than every godzilla movie I've ever seen. But the godzilla franchise doesn't only consust of trauma and the horrors of war. Over the decades, godzilla ha become a really versatile character and I like all the directions the franchise took. GxK has become my favourite monsterverse movie and one of my favourite godzilla movies in general. The thing is, after Minus One came out, many people started to compare everything this franchise has to offer. But why? You can't compare Minus One and GxK for example. They have a completely different purpose and message. The variety these movies offer is something we can appreciate.
My boi honestly cooked. I personally also really enjoyed minus one but man, did it spawn stans. Like guys I'm srry but ur coping. That's just the hard truth. Sometimes things don't go ur way, and thats fine. So keep it in ur own little insecure brain.
I have hope that it won't turn out that way. The beauty in having both Legendary Zilla and Minus One Zilla do so well at the same time is that it showcases his versatility. They see that people want deep Zilla movies in Minus One, and fun monster fights in GxK.
This happens every time you get an influx of new fans. They always want the franchise to be like the movie that got them into the franchise and nothing else.
Trying to compare Minus One Godzilla to Monsterverse Godzilla is like comparing the Christopher Nolan and Matt Reeves Batman to the Adam West Batman; both are completely different approaches to the same idea with their own sense of appeal... I believe it's possible to like both for the sake of appreciation, but I'm always a sucker for more serious stories regarding Godzilla.
@@ellugerdelacruz2555 I kinda want another mv godzilla movie to be scary and dark. Albeit don't get me wrong, I really hope that they bring back that sweet philosophy of the dark style from g14 back then. the mv needs the Juice of peak themes if it wants to achieve both endpoints on what they want to win (If you know what I mean). Better yet i can already see the the next director of the next MV film/movie doing something not just _new_ for the MV but something _Promising_ that can appeal to all types of fans and/or Audience.
"Godzilla should only be an allegory!" If someone's watching the Monsterverse films, and *missing* the allegory in them, they maybe need to stop consuming any media at all until they can retake kindergarten. The movies are not subtle about it.
I love both Kong and Godzilla, and I would agree that Kong has both the blessing and the curse that the original film is literally one of the greatest movies EVER made. Subsequent Kong films are kind of like subsequent Oz films... Yeah, they might be fine, but they're not THE Wizard of Oz. The original Gojira is one of the greatest films as well, and certainly one of the greatest Japanese films, but Toho had the presence of mind to come back to him after a 7-year hiatus with the willingness to do something totally different. That willingness to do vastly different things with him, from Minus One to Godziban to Shin-Gojira to Chibi-Godzilla to Singular Point to whatever, is what has made Godzilla so robust and why I don't think Toho will succumb to an urge to make all Godzilla movies the same going forward. What I like about the "Reiwa Era" is that it IS so ballsy and experimental.
@@godzillagurus576 when you start with literally one of the greatest movies ever made, what do you do after that? Nothing else can equal it. Attempts to remake it (1976 and 2005) just confirm how good the original is. Kong is kind of the opposite of Godzilla in that Toho was willing to get experimental and take Godzilla in different directions to create a robust franchise 60 years later. Every Kong movie lives in the shadow of the original, which is why there have been so few.
@@godzillagurus576 I agree with you on that. Plus whenever they try to do a sequel to King Kong it becomes mediocre or really bad. That's why I prefer Kong as a stand alone movie instead.
Seeing that Cloverfield Paradox clip made me chuckle a little bit, since I am a Cloverfield fan. Maybe you should do a video on those movies at some point. Also, I don’t know if you’re too big of a Spider-Man guy, but I am curious about how’d you rank all 8 of the live-action movies, so how about a video on that? To actually talk about the video, I agree on the problem videos. They always act like experts even though it’s pretty clear that they know little to nothing about the franchise. And people think Godzilla is “woke” just cause he’s pink in the new movie? You gotta be kidding me. He was pink in the Millennium and no one complained about that back then, so how’s the color change a problem now? Just cause pink is a normally associated with girls doesn’t mean that Godzilla is “woke” in the new movie for being pink alone. Those people probably just don’t have anything better to do other than make complaint videos that have no standing point. Like, what if there was a girl character who’s signature color is pink, and they change it to blue later for whatever reason. Would that be considered “woke” too?
I think a main reason why people think Godzilla and the monster verse has gone woke, is because of a thing I've seen flying around that apparently says Gareth Edwards or Adam wingard said Godzilla is bisexual. I can find no sources confirming this, but that could be a point they stand on.
THANK YOU. MY POINT EXACTLY I had someone argue with me that changing Godzilla from serious like G2014/Shin is detrimental to continuity, and I literally replied to him, "DUDE, GO WATCH THE 1960s AND '70s movies, they did the exact same thing." And he replied, "Well they suck" I asked him with reply, "Did you actually watch them in their entirety?" he replied and said, "No they just suck" all I did was reply with a "DUMMY, YEAH" reply from Eli Drake
@@Shockwave_987 Thanks, if people are going to criticize the Monsterverse for changing it's tone consistently, and then not talk about the showa era of the Godzilla universe, you are an idiot, just saying, get context and watch every movie before judging the ones you have seen. And that's the issue, toxic fans from other fandoms watch these movies without context and expect the same from every Godzilla film
I personally think that Toho's best strategy with Godzilla going forward would be to actually have more serious or Godzilla films to compliment the Monsterverse's goofier nature...that's partly why the box office for Godzilla x Kong was such a huge hit because for as beloved as Minus One was for it's serious tone and back to original roots, a lot of people greatly enjoy the more over-the-top monster action version of Godzilla as featured in the Monsterverse. So, I think that if Toho and Legendary work alongside each other, with Legendary focusing on the over-the-top monster fun while Toho does the serious stuff, Godzilla fans will be pleased all around and thus its a win-win. And it doesn't have to just be Minus One sequels, it can also be original ideas with a darker tone. The only way this strategy wouldn't work would be if the Monsterverse for some reason got a decline in viewership or box office, or heck if the two studios aren't able to negotiate a continuing license. In that case, Toho can go back to making more goofier action oriented Godzilla films to take in the Monsterverse fans that wanted more of that.
I don’t think Godzilla will fall under that shadow that King Kong did for decades. Mostly because Godzilla has way more movies and considering that the light hearted Godzilla movies such as GxK are doing well along side Minus one. I think Godzilla has a lot of room before we have to worry about anything. But I am tired of people who watch one or two Godzilla movies and then make essays like they know the franchise. That’s infuriating and needs to stop.
I’ll probably get a lot of hate for this, but I would love to see Tojo make a kid-focus anime similar to Digimon where a handful of kids have the monsters as their own. - Heck, even like Digimon, you can still have serious themes in it.
I actually been cooking a big idea for series concept like that, LOL. "Godzilla: Kaiju Squad" is what I call it. It basically combines Godzilla The Series, with elements from the polygon trilogy I liked, with elements of the heisei, millenium, showa and monsterverse.
Personally, as a Godzilla fan, I’m not too worried. I think it’s awesome that Godzilla is getting so much attention. I like the Monsterverse movies, but I don’t think I would call them good movies, even when judging them on their own terms. My criteria is that as long as you make it good, then tone doesn’t matter. I do totally understand where you’re coming from however.
2:15 Ah. I see you noticed my video. Lol I'm not here to start a fight or anything, just give my perspective on what the idea behind my first video was. G -1.0 was my first Godzilla movie and I was blown away by it. So upon hearing that, not only is Godzilla 70 years old, but that the Monsterverse is its own continuity, I wanted to explore the franchise some more. My video is simply my personal critique of the films I watched; being Shin Godzilla, 2014, KotM, and Minus One. I didn't want to come across as some kind of authority on Godzilla; that would be out of line for me as I haven't even been a Godzilla fan for an entire year. And as for the title, I had no idea the "Godzilla Problem" meme was a thing when I titled the video that. Whoops. Lol But here I am about 4-5 months later and have watched 20 films out of the 38 and finding it all fascinating. So far, I've found the Heisei Era to be my favorite, as I've nearly watched all of them at this point and love the strong continuity. I did end up making a second video revisiting the Monsterverse with a different perspective after seeing all of the films, finding the potential in the Monsterverse. I completely understand that gatekeeping is important and your concern for the future of the franchise, but rest assured; I fully intended and continue to intend to engage with the franchise in earnest and good faith. Hope that clears things up a bit.
@@fishmobsmovietv514Nah, don't worry about it. You didn't say anything crazy. That's why I felt that I could tell you my perspective and you wouldn't chew my head off. Lol
@@blurhavokofficial That's a relief. Yeah, I honestly would rather hear what other people have to say, even if I disagree with it, then try to shut them down.
Here’s another point: Minus One was wonderful yes but… It’s overrated. There. I typed it. If you want to say it’s the best Godzilla movie out there narrative wise I don’t blame you. But I think that’s the problem. Godzilla has been doing nothing but fighting other monsters for the longest time now. For a movie to have Godzilla by himself, being this vengeful threat to humanity, it’s a breath of fresh air, which is the real reason why this movie is so loved. I agree that we should have more movies like it, to even out the amount of movies where Godzilla sends a message to the audience about life, and the movies where Godzilla entertains us by kicking another monster’s ass but you’re right. We can’t have too many of these types of movies. This is all just my opinion though.
At least you can say that its overrated without downplaying ppl who think otherwise. Ive seen so many ppl say its overrated and arguing with others who disagree.
I would love for a monsterverse short film about godzilla finding a lost mate and having minilla as his son to fill in the lonely gap and can continue his legacy like the heisei trilogy
At this point, these kinds of fakers pretending to be "fans" across much of RU-vid talking about every fictional franchise in existence are just doing it for the money and attention.
I don't know, as Japanese products become more popular over here on the west, companies will most likely start listening to what we want instead of what the local audience want.
@@fishmobsmovietv514 Considering the reverence Japan has for Godzilla, this sounds pretty silly to me. Pandering to American audiences is something only Hollywood does. This isn't Star Wars. If you look at Shin Godzilla, the USA is arguably the villains, since they provoked Godzilla to burn Tokyo and pushed for the Japanese to arm themselves with nukes, the very thing the main lady swore off. Also, in Minus One, the USA obstains from helping Japan after fire bombing and nuking them. Granted, I'm not American, so I look at this from a third party perspective. I'm not in your camp here.
I didn't get Shin Godzilla vibes from the anime trilogy. For one thing, Shin Godzilla is good and the anime trilogy isn't good even a little bit. Shin Godzilla had a point and it told its point effectively. The anime trilogy had a point... somewhere buried under six hours of really boring exposition and annoying characters. To me it was more the writers and directors were just sniffing their own farts trying to be smarter than they actually were. It didn't translate well.
My dream Gojira film is having him be a literally extension of the Earth who goes around absorbing artificial energy sources that are harmful to the planet.
Yeah I agree with your points about Godzilla evolving overtime, especially with how King Kong didn’t have that because American studios are too stupid to make their monsters evolve with the times they were in. The only monsters to evolve have always been the Japanese ones.
I'm quite new to the Godzilla fandom and watched all of the movies outside of Minus One(Mainly because it was leaving theaters when I got into the big guy). The grifters who try and claim that the monsterverse is too silly literally only watched Shin and Minus One. You said it the best with how Godzilla is always changing and if anything it disproves the grifters claims. There goofy stuff even in the more 'serious' eras. Heisei Era has psychics, the origins of Biollante, and the entirety of Godzilla vs King Ghidorah. The Millenium Era literally had Godzilla doing a body slam onto Megaguirius and do I even have to mention Final Wars? Monsterverse in my opinion, takes concepts from all of the eras and plays with them to see how they can be adapted. I loved GxK and would love to see where they go forward with the Monsterverse. TL;DR: Godzilla has always had goofy stuff to it.
As a Mecha fan ambassador, we offer our truest support to your cause, Kaiju fans. We too have suffered under the shadow of Evangelion's Overexposure, and we do not wish you the same fate. Just like Super Robots and Real Robots should coexists and be varied, the same should be for Power Fantasy Godzilla and Allegory Godzilla.
godzilla is like dragons they can be so divers and be so different with still being recognizable as godzilla. its funny how a movie made by someone who shows love for all the other versions of the character can be used to spread hate
This is what I've been worried about ever since Shin Godzilla- Toho got a lot of acclaim for basically making a soft reboot of the original with a lot of scifi surrealism and anime influence, and that's what led to the creation of the anime trilogy and Singular Point. On one hand, Minus One goes firmly towards period films, less focusing on that scifi/anime/horror genre and more to traditional character-based storytelling. On the other hand, I can't help but Toho keeps going for that reboot over and over again. I think a bit boat ancher on modern storytelling is the soft reboot. Spiderman, Star Wars, Star Trek, Jurassic Park, Predator, Alien, Ghostbusters- etc etc etc. They're not exact remakes but they hit the same beats over and over again. And that's not even getting into the straight reboots of Ten Commandments, Magnificent Seven, the whole Disney catalogue, etc. And I don't want that to happen to Godzilla where every story is just the original movie. I feel a lot of fans just want to feel more serious and smart. Some are just horror fans or personal drama fans, but I think there's genuine gatekeeping snobbery too, so they attack the Monsterverse whenever possible. It's something that's been a real big part of toxic Godzilla culture, one that's already showing issues with women, POC fans and younger generations. I feel the worst aspects of Weeb culture are spilling into Godzilla as well. The King Kong comparison was great- even Toho's more imaginative takes on Kong with sci-fi, giant scale, robots, dragons and happy endings, still had the whole "capture, escape, likes to capture pretty women" theme. being central. Kong is in Godzilla's shadow not only because of the endless rights issues, but I don't think people knew what to do with the character- before the Monsterverse, the films were either remakes, comedy sequels, or Toho kaiju. And while the Monsterverse is leaning more on the Toho films interpretation, they break free from the usual Kong formula and re-invigorate the character. And I feel the same is True of Godzilla- while the take is still roughly based on the 60s as a happy medium between the 70s and 90s hero and antihero Godzillas, it's very different from anything that's come before in terms of character. And people don't like this innovation because that's not what they personally are used to or like. This is the only fandom I'm still excited about, so I'm worried about this. It doesn't help that mainstream critics embolden them despite the creators at both Toho and Legendary both praising all recent Godzilla films. I feel I'm the only King Kong fan, the only heroic Godzilla fan, the only 60s-70s Godzilla fan. And I don't want this fandom to get as toxic as all the other fandoms.
If there’s one thing that I will give these videos credit for (to a certain extent), it’s how they have seemingly rally all contentious sides or factions within the Godzilla community. The way that the entire community collectively treated DoktorSkipper felt like a liveleak 4K public execution.
Whatever have a greater attention through the wrong reasons is something that we should be aware, even if they seem to be inevitable. The Velma show is bad is not because of race swapping or female empowerment l because they have not much a good comedy and butchering the characterization by having most of them unlikable that neither side wants it’s side, yet hate watching caused a 2nd season renewed. Phase 4 of the MCU was janky, sure there were heavy miss but there are greater hits that shouldn’t have everyone worry of Marvel “fell off,” although the last time everyone says something like that was the reviews that found Age of Ultron from disappointment to average and doubting the success for the Guardians of the Galaxy based on characters not many really knew. And yes, definitely with Godzilla which being an allegory is part of him but he doesn’t shy away to new things. I dare argue that the monster-verse is like the Showa era; they start on a darker mood then subsequent films have spectacles for the fun of it. Minus One is a second remake (although may be changes for any follow ups) and the third film to take as an allegory but some fans found it more like the original; a broken country whose pride had been destroyed and had to face a living horror rampaging onto them, found the value of life and having a few to give themselves away vowing to never let it happen again. Those who thinks of the latest movies for the wrong reasons, then maybe they should check the G man’s career.
The Godzilla franchise is one with many tones and stories. Whether goofy or serious, there is a film in the franchise that can appeal to anyone’s taste. Even the original director Ishiro Honda after the original dark 1954 film decided to make his next film in the franchise King Kong vs Godzilla a satirical comedy. The variety is what has made Godzilla last for so long because any film in the franchise can believably be someone’s favourite. It’s fine for these fans to prefer the dark and serious films in the franchise like Minus One, but to act like the whole franchise becoming dark and serious all the time is what is best for it is ignorant and will only make the fandom and potential for newcomers shrink.
I hope Toho doesn’t listen to these people and Godzilla continues to be versatile and evolves. We can have both serious and non serious films. Those who say Godzilla is bad should be silenced and their videos deleted
Minus one is great but it’s still just a reboot of the original. Shin as well but it’s unique enough that it stands out. I don’t hate what this reiwa era is bringing but I do hope they shake things up a bit.
Thank u god somebody else besides me has pointed out how much good the Monsterverse did 4 King Kong since most of his films have been just retreading old footsteps over n over again
As much as I can understand the concern for the future of Godzilla films, I don't really think that Toho would really lean into the "critique" of the people who trash in the monsterverse. Both Tamaki Yamazaki, and Adam Wingard went on to have a conversation that showed that they both understand that Godzilla is a diverse and versatile character. I don't think Toho would turn a blind eye to this, and I do think the portrayal of your fears in this video are a bit unwarranted and overinflated. Without an established pattern of behavior, there isn't much reason to believe that the future of Godzilla is bleak. (the polygon trilogy doesn't count, as it seems to have been planned to be a trilogy from the start, and Togo seems to have clearly learned from their mistake with that) Even if Toho did start putting out more totally serious Godzilla films, I don't think that they could make Minus One feel any less special, especially since we still have the Monsterverse on the scene to contrast more tonally serious Godzilla films.
Pretty sure I've read somewhere that the polygon trilogy was intended to be a full on series until Toho had it consolidated into 3 films? My source: Can't find it, but I'm sure I've heard of it.
For me, I don't really like the Monsterverse, but not because I want it to be Shin or Minus One. I dislike it because I want it to lean even harder into being monsterverse. There was far, far too much preaching at the audience from "wise japanese scientist man" that I can't be bothered to remember the name of because I don't give a damn about the humans. Let me see Godzilla having a dbz fight with 5 enemies for the entire runtime. Yes, the entire runtime. Screw the stupid subplots of 'will these two people bang', get them off the screen, I don't care, I'm not here for a romance. I think there is room for both types of Godzilla movies, I just want the Godzilla movies to know what they're trying to do. Which is what makes Shin and Minus One so much better than Monsterverse, because Monsterverse is having too much of a confused identity crisis.
A identity crisis how? What you described was badly written humans, not a identity crisis. Say you want better stories to go with your action. Not just the action. Asking for nothing but action ain't gonna result in better human elements
In a franchise this big there is always going to be dissension. But for myself I don’t care about Godzilla showing all his different facets ( that makes it fun) but good storytelling. And ( because I can be a nerd) continuity in what is considered canon. The Monsterverse’s Godzilla’s canon strays away from that of Toho which strays away from Graphic novels and comics. Not to mention fan based RU-vid content. I think the best thing to do is to sit back and enjoy the ride. This is entertainment. As long as the Big Gman is presented at least with some care and loving I’m okay. Then I’ll overlook such silliness as Monach suddenly having a mechanical arm all set for Kong just lying around the corner and Godzilla flying.
Honestly, my take on the discourse has mainly been that if Toho is willing to invest more of that weight in a Godzilla movie that went back to basics with half the budget and make it work, then Legendary should be capable of adding more weight to the Monsterverse. Emotional or engaging character arcs would be great for both humans and monsters. I honestly think GxK isn’t as Showa as I would like it to be, could have used more of that scifi/fantasy edge. Like really dig deeper into it instead of using another big monkey and what essentially was just an ice Godzilla.
These types of people have been shitting on the Monsterverse since 2014. Yet its been going on for a decade with a successful tv show and more tv spin offs to come to boot
03:50 Hey, bro... don't be dissing my home boy, Gamera. Gamera has been just as versatile as Godzilla, even though he's had fewer incarnations over the years.
4:37 Where is this video from? Though, I’ve got to defend Alastor’s video. He just says that the goofy tone of the Monsterverse isn’t the problem, just that the writing could be better. His video isn’t like Doctor Skipper’s at all. Though I went to Gojifest. You don’t have to worry, they’re still embracing the goofy stuff.
@@wannabehistorian371 the names of the directors are slipping me right now, but just figure out their names and then put it in RU-vid search bar with interview.
These guys are just the type of people who probably had distain towards Godzilla fans growing up lmao, Jk but seriously I think ever since Minus One came out people forgot what Godzilla REALLY is.
This was a great video. I'd love to see more of these in the future, and this was something similar to what I was going to talk about myself, why stuff like what we got with GxK is important going forward, and why movies like Minus one are just as important, but for vastly different reasons. We need things like that tone, but we also need to remember the goofy and fun moments, like the gravity defying drop kick. Godzilla is a swiss army knife, he can do so many things so easily, and never lose his identity. Because his identity is longer lived than most people
Honestly, I think there should be more videos like the one I made, ones that examines and celebrates just how diverse and varied he is as a character in tone, medium, themes etc.
@@fishmobsmovietv514 I agree with you completely. I feel like doing something like that would be, one, fun because it gives a free reason to watch these movies, but and two to show the series has evolved, changed and keeps those threads at the same time. I made a personal retrospective on godzilla and what the series means to me a month back, and seeing others making videos like this, if you told me ten years back this would happen, I wouldn't have believed anyone. It's beautiful
They better not listen to these dam trolls I love the monster verse and even really like Godzilla X Kong and really hope they continue the monster verse
A problem i tend to have with some of these people that arent actually Godzilla fans is that a LOT of them didnt see Godzilla Minus One because they like the franchise. But because they saw the film out of spite against "Hollywood" or some dumb nonsense. Causing them to make all these stupid essays about how "Godzilla Minus One is destroying Hollywood" even though 100 million american dollars isnt exactly causing American films to shake in their boots. Sure. People can like the movie. But dont spew this bs about its the second coming just because its not "spewing a message" even though every Godzilla movie has a message to it.
I have not seen Minus One yet and I don’t doubt its quality…but I will always believe that it and Shin Godzilla were the worst things to happen to the Godzilla fanbase. What was once a relatively chill and friendly community has turned into a rotten cesspool of gatekeeping, elitist snobs, and people who think they are suddenly experts on Godzilla cause they saw all of one film.
Most of the comments here don't make much sense to me. Minus One is the best Godzilla movie thus far, but I don't wanna see another movie like it ever again. Between saying "Godzilla is a flexible character" to "Godzilla should stay the same", I'm with the latter. I prefer JP godzilla to stay the same, but I also prefer Western Godzilla to stay different. What I love is the variety of Heisei movie concepts, but Godzilla never really changed as an enemy or threat to the planet and/or humanity itself. All of these movies feature a new villain with some ties to technology, the environment, or Godzilla Cells. Godzilla never changes. I do agree with the importance of keeping things fresh by making something new to keep Godzilla from being stale. I loved and hated the anime trilogy for similar reasons to Fishmob. There was so much potential to what they could do in this Godzilla universe. I'd fuse certain elements from the Godzilla netflix trilogy with Godzilla Singular Point. I think many people enjoy Singular Point as it speaks to the audience far more than the trilogy ever did, it was just another popcorn movie/tv show that had very little and delivered very little. I think its great Monsterverse exists, my only concern is the Monsterverse being another flop for reasons that never should have happened, and for reasons that may drive majority of the audience away due to bad decisions and/or writing from the top brass. Legendary Godzilla and Monsterverse is still young, so I will admit we should give them some time.
I'm glad you included the Chibi versions in the video because these people posting essays act America should be more like Toho when Toho is currently releasing this goofy web series. Also, I don't understand the title of Doctor Skipper's video, because at the time before Minus One came out, the Monsterverse was producing massive hits while Toho was producing stinkers at the time.(Anime Trilogy, Singular point) I wonder what they thought of these Godzilla products?
Video Essayists have been annoying since 2017 on RU-vid and it's a shame they have endured longer than many other genres. Plenty of people make genuine attempts to be informative, but most of the time it's pretentious ego stroking and this recent Godzilla phase is the perfect example. Imagine trying to gaslight thousands of people into saying "I am a long time Godzilla fan" and saying something is bad because not only have you seen three movies, but you don't even know the most iconic part of the franchise: Monster fights other monsters. It's like if people complained super hero movies had super villains because they only saw their debut comics, the idea of these people acting like they know more than others is crazy.
While I get the point, the fact of the matter is the fandom has locked down and now gatekeeps any and all criticism of the Monsterverse. Saying the Monsterverse has problems and needs to improve is not demanding it be Minus One. But this "Just have fun bro, it's not that hard bro!" take that shuts down any and all critique is extremely poisonous.
Well not every Godzilla movie doesn't have to be like Minus One for old roots part because well it'll get repetitive, overused, overrated and annoying at same time so Godzilla be anything just as long they're good movies and storytelling.
Good video! I love how you compared Kong to Godzilla and why he became less popular compared to Godzilla and how if godzilla has nothing but Minus ones he will follow in the footsteps Which is telling since Kong following in the footsteps of Godzilla is what's making him finally get out of his status quo
very nice video, i'll have to show this to my sister who watched a few of these "monsterverse bad minus one good" videos and is now convinced the monsterverse is a cheap cash grab
What I find funny is most of these people crapping on he monsterverse aren't even talking about the things actually wrong with it like how it continues to half ass everything outside the monsters.
Some of the supposed criticisms are just grifters wanting a quick buck like the Doktor Skipper video. I'm glad Godzilla fans called him out on this because some grifters were able to harm an IP with their long essays of rambling all because nobody called them out for misinformation they perpetuate.
Dude..idk if you looked around but..,borderline EVERY G film for the past 10 years has caused toxic fans to appear. If minus 1 doing that ruined the franchise then the film is 10 years too late. Cause we already has toxic g14 fans or shin gojira fans years prior to even kotm and don't even get me started on toxic kotm fans. Obviously the toxic fans are a minority but minus 1 giving birth to new toxic fans is annoying but not new overall.
@@kasaibouF29 Search for gojira5400's earliest shin gojira hate videos, good example of some guy who was finding every reason in the book to fanboy over g14 but hate shin gojira. But besides him, g14 fans back then to a extent (not all but some) thought shin gojira was a response to g14 made by toho that was implying *godzilla 2014 is fake, shin gojira is the real godzilla* when that was never the case. Even wikizilla has this as a godzilla misconception on their site showing it was a real thing fans thought was legitimate years ago. Nowadays toxic g14 fans just try to pass around this mindset that edgy godzilla = flawless media that can't to wrong but forget the godzilla anime trilogy exist...
Those videos are mainly people who only watched minus one and the 54' one, tried to explain what the franchise was about and how the monsterverse was "wrong" about it (even tho it literally took a lot of the showa and heisei era's after KOTM) That should be a given to how serious and inform those clowns are Heck, i doubt they even watched the 98's godzilla
Most of what I hear comes from a younger audience as they have come up in an era where CGI is norm and fantastic stories with creatures are now common. So looking back at something that came out half a century ago is hard for some young people, and to immerse themselves in the story is challenging due to the effects at the time, so there expectations are so underwhelmed that they cannot take what they see seriously and miss out on a characters legacy, because all they know is the modern takes which is unfortunate, but it is what it is.