To be honest, i think that metal sonic in the comics has a lot more personality then some realise. After the metal virus arc, he has a bit of an epiphany. When he dips his hand into a barrel of the virus, he doesnt get turned, because he isnt organic. He isnt like sonic. So i imagine, that in the egg city arc, when he rushes in to fight them all by himself, (or whenever he fights more then one person by himself for that matter), its out of anger. A personal vendetta. Keep in mind, metal has been losing to sonic for AGES by this point. Given that the comics take place after forces. So it makes sense that hes starting to break out of his programming a bit, but only to try and prove that hes better then sonic. Heck, in the metal virus arc again, sonic is running on the treadmill thing, and he talks to metal for a bit. Sonic realizes that metal doesnt have to serve eggman, but he does it anyway. He just doesnt understand why. This concludes my metal sonic ted talk.
How does Sonic realize Metal doesn't HAVE to serve Eggman? Eggman literally walks up to him and tell Sonic that Metal is actually hardcoded to behave the way he does. Metal tells Sonic when he first reveals his Neo form again that Eggman hardcoded him to no longer rebel and be totally loyal. Sonic is just kind of an idiot who somehow didn't realize Metal's free will is in chains despite being directly told that more than once.
Metal is one of my favorite fictional characters, so it really does suck to see how badly he's been mishandled. He's called Metal Sonic for a reason, he's supposed to be on par with Sonic, not just falling short of.
Dude, seeing him in the next movie would be awesome. I would love to see him get the respect he deserves and actually have a narrative impact. Like if sonic lost to metal sonic narratively that would look awesome for the movie and then they could build something from there.
I would not be pissed if the biolizard was replaced with metal sonic or if Eggman used him as a placeholder for the first fight between shadow and the biolizard. If they implemented him good enough it would please fans and they could overlook the inconsistencies in Sonic Adventure 2 story by including him.
Imagine if the writers of a given Sonic property took the Terminator approach and made Metal Sonic a high-level threat again, difficult to harm and determined as all hell to take the heroes down. Even if his appearances were brief, they'd be so much more impactful! Like as soon as Metal shows up, no matter what Sonic and the gang are doing, suddenly their priorities shift and they're thrust headlong into survival mode. THAT would be terrifying.
Thing is, Metal has never been a real threat in the games outside of when he went Neo Metal in Heroes. Even in CD, we are never given a reason to see him as a major threat as your only interaction with him prior to the race is just him kidnapping a little girl who can't even fight.
@@ChaddyFantome He's meant to be a threat to the character of Sonic seeing as his whole point is to best sonic which is why most of his boss battles are races since Sonic's best attribute is speed. I think I'd love to see a story where Metal really disappears for a bit and during that time analyses how exactly Sonic became so great and fast. Imagine a story where he is all Taskmaster on Sonic and takes his friends out one by one and could make a great story where Metal finally beats Sonic
@@gibbsterV Is he though? Is he really? Because as far as I can tell, he never actual ever was. From what I can tell, the idea of Metal was always to elevate Sonic by showing how Eggman fails to understand what makes Sonic Sonic. Metal is a robotic subserviant tool that reduces Sonic down to purely his physical ability, which is why he could never compare to him and always failed to match him. Even in Heroes, Metal's character centers around this. He laments the fact that despite being made the outdo him, he has never been able to and it frustrates him that he simply cannot comprehend why he cant, regardless of the amount of power he amasses. Metal is a wannabe. He isn't meant to be a genuine threat to Sonic as much as he is a relentless entity that tries in vain to be what it cannot.
I can't really agree with Metal Sonic being mishandled in the later portions of the comics due to Metal Sonic easily beating up Surge which led the to her to team up with Kit and strategies to immobilize him with extreme difficulty and we see Metal Sonic was the main reason why Sonic had his friends had a tough time escaping from the city while only being delayed or held back momentarily which showed how dangerous he is and later on we see that everyone needed to work to get to knock him out momentarily which shows his durability. Sonic was also struggling against Surge with the dynamo cage and almost killed him and the main reason she beat him was strategy and absorbing energy which shows Metal Sonic being a consistent threat that requires strategy or hax to defeat.
I can definitely see it from that angle too! Like I mentioned I think the comics have given Metal the most justice. Personally I just noticed him catching hands a lot within the last several issues so I figured I'd bring it up 😁
@@SonicTheory96 and he was only defeated by Surge and Kit because they literally counter him they can use both WATER and ELECTRICITY, and metal is... a robot Dynamo Surge is an even bigger counter too, so it makes sense for Metal to be defeated there aswell as for him going straight to one vs all of Sonic's Friends, its easily explained by the way he has been portrayed in the IDW after the first arc
Because Eggman fears that if he fixes Metal completely, he will go back to being a traitor and he will restart Sonic Heroes like he did in the First IDW Sonic comics. Deja Vu is what Eggman fears. Flynn's "Eggman never had a solid plan" quote is pointless because Eggman always has a solid plan on how to deal with potential threats and double crossers like Metal Sonic. Even in Sonic Forces does Eggman have a backup Solid plan on preventing Infinite from turning on him, meaning Flynn thinks Sonic Forces doesn't count when he said that
@@pancake204 Ian Flynn doesn't need to keep Metal Sonic as Eggman's puppet anymore as that concept has gone stale since the end of Sonic Heroes. Metal Sonic needs return of his peak and more character development. I am talking about "Shard The Metal Sonic" style. A robot antithesis who goes from a villain obsessed with being "The real Sonic" into a Robot antithesis who sides with Sonic but still has a personality that keeps him apart from the hedgehog he is a copy of. The closest they tried into doing that outside Archie is the Scrapped and Cut Content/Plans for Sonic Heroes where Metal Sonic is supposed to be a redeemed protagonist fighting another Metal Sonic (Neo)
@@Aidel1011 "Listen here, metalhead: if you really want to prove your superiority so badly, how about you try being better at 'hero stuff' than me? Can't be the better Sonic if you don't act like Sonic, now, can you? Live free, help the ones in need, that kind of stuff. But you? A servant to one, always just 'crush, kill, destroy'."
Metal Sonic has got to be a tricky character to write for since he doesn't talk, and the only way he can see how he thinks is by his action. Making him talk is way to circumvent it, but that would feel cheap given the whole aspect of him being how eggman would improve sonic (by removing every 'human' characteristic from him). Tho, the recent issue has made me consider that they're trying to do something with him since he actively choses to attack Sonic and Co on his own as if trying to make up for always needing someone else to help him when he was up against surge and kit.
@@metalsonic4.1therobothedge24okay so running into a wall, getting destroyed by sonic heroes, getting smacked a bunk, going boom, ye hes not doin good
I think the problem is that more villains drills the old question. "Why does Eggman keep trying if he never wins?" It's the opposite effect of the Garry Stew dynamic , the villains never win anything. As a kid , that's the one thing I liked about Adventures Of Sonic.
@@aidanhammans9337 , close isn't a win. He keeps trying to find new ideas and lands that are not tainted by previous failures just to have the will to live. And it's all to prove himself , but they never give him useful inventions.
Even though I have a lot of distain for sonic 4, I feel like it gives Metal Sonic a lot of necessary rework. Metal doesn’t feel like a pawn that gets easily kicked aside, but an actual threat that has a meaningful presence. I also feel that the comics have a pretty good depiction of Metal Sonic, because most of his defeats are from him being delayed briefly instead of a complete destruction.
I've heard of this before. I know it as the "Worf Effect" named after Worf from Star Trek Next Gen. Basically, Metal Sonic has been used as a measurement. The writer uses Metal Sonic as a measurement to show the readers how powerful another threat is. If done too much it can make the reader wonder why the character is feared when he just goes down like a chump. Luckily, that hasn't happened to Metal Sonic. But it does seem to be skirting the edge a bit.
while i do think the latter usage of metal in IDW is... lack luster, Surge is a enemy that USES electricity, which is a weakness to alot of robots, being short circuited. so him losing consistently to Surge makes sense to me. she has the counter to him in the form of just being able to shut him off.
Problem is that he has channeled a lot more energy than she can hope to put out and his internals would be shielded anyway. A little Zap wouldn't take him down.
Great video man. I'm glad the algorithm through it my way. I have a lot of love for Metal Sonic especially in the OVA and Heroes, and after the end of Heroes I had always hoped to see Metal return and have more interactions with Sonic whether it be fighting or possibly some conversations about their existence as two sides of the same coin kind of thing. I've not read the comics but I do think he's been underutilised in the games. And since Sega are slowly integrating Sonic's friends into the games, I'd like to see him return in some way too.
I really want a piece of media that has Metal Sonic and Omega talk or pair up. The ending of Heroes where Shadow and Omega pick him up could've made for some great new development if they had followed through with it in Shadow the Hedgehog.
as a big metal sonic fan, i love his character in sonic ova the most. he literally made me cry when [spoiler thingy that has something to do with lava] and the way he was copying sonic (like his nose rub) and sonic acknowledging that theyre the exact same and know what both of them will do afterwards, and metal so ic gaining some sentience and free will at the end, and everything... everything about that character made me appreciate and love him. he is a robot who has a sloght change to turn good or be a great opponent to his bological fleshy counterpart which, oppositely to him, shows lots of emotions while metal himself doesnt. sonic, at the time of sonic cd, was all anti pollution and supportive or the nature being alive and not killed, so foe that time in that plot of sonic fighting for the nature, metal sonic and sonic's rivalry was literally "mechanics versus nature" battle WHICH FIT PERFECTLY BACK THEN because 90% of the sonic's plot in 1993 was him poofing robots and defeating eggman so he wouldnt ruin the whole nature and evilishly conquer the dead land and captured, experimented, and eventually enslaved animals that were used as ENGINES. sonic was fighting for freedom of those animals, and for the nature to not be destroyed and burnt to death, so that nature, a big part of the earth, wouldnt be endangered. and metal sonic was a version of sonic that was just like sonic,but also quite the opposite. sonic was all freedomy, careless, heroic and a bit proud of it to the point he was bragging about saving everyone. while metal sonic was obedient and quiet, he needed to have a purpose in life, rather than just living freely like sonic and chilling anywhere while occasionally helping everyone around. and even metal sonic, the cold and calculated robot, was able to gain some self awareness and, due to being sonic's clone or a counterpart, even he was heroic. for once, nature and tech bonded and tech became good like nature, in the slightest. oh, and speaking in allegories, tech is made out of natural minerals or handmade materials who are always made from nature. everything we have is made out of nature! so it feels like, since metal was sonic's clone, even he somewhat became good and did something heroic. even if afterwards nothing else like this was done to him, he is a GREAT threat and a great enemy to sonic. he is literally his clone andtheh both can predict everything both of them can do. even if nowadays, sega is making him alot weaker than he should be. of course, in sonic prime, chaos sonic(which is metal sonic but prime) even overpowered sonic in a way thaf he was alot stronger and looked like he would EASILY get the upper hand instantly in a fight where he would be SERIOUS. metal sonic is overall, a very advanced robot that copies sonic, and sonic runs in *the speed of sound.* and if a robot manages to copy running at such speeds without breaking apart, it is a serious threat of an enemy. he once was the biggest threat ever! and presumably, since mecha sonic could go super, i dont think metal cannot do the same aswell. i just wish he opposed more threat and was taken more seriously nowadays, except for sonic prime. they did him neat, even if that wasnt presicely metal sonic. also, i wait for the day that he might become a little bit good, just like sage, an ai, which is quite like a robot, if not the same, became more self aware and emotional, atleast for once, or i mean, atleast make him a bigger threat. i hope he will be jn the sonic movie, and i hope he will be a big threat so his potential wouldnt go to waste! (but of course, ova metal sonic is just mwah in every way, it would be even better in my opinion, if metal in sonic movie 3 would be similar a bit...)
This was a great analysis, but personally one of the things I found most underutilized about him is his characterization and the identity crisis he's sometimes teased to have. He doesn't need to have Shadow levels of backstory and angst, but I love the concept of a robot created for a purpose he can never seem to achieve and being driven to illogical conclusions by it. As well as the dynamic between this deadly but illogical machine and its callous, childish creator who probably doesn't care. There's a lot there they could dig into with them, and it breaks my heart that the direction with the character ended in 2003.
Metal Sonic loses too often and _never_ wins. It pretty much kills all sense of him being seen as a threatening bad guy. Even Eggman, who loses every game, still feels like more of a threat because he gets little wins here and there and takes a long time to defeat. When Metal Sonic appears as a one-off boss, its treating him like your average nameless faceless boss robot Eggman throws at the heroes rather than a complex character and a foil for Sonic.
Fleetway's Sonic The Comic/STC had the first Metallix/Metal Sonic being so powerful that Sonic had to travel back in time and destroy the machine that was going to create Metallix/Metal Sonic. The second Metallix/Mecha Sonic MK II beat Knuckles and Sonic easily until it knocked Sonic onto the Master Emerald causing Sonic to go Super. The Metallix/Mecha Sonic mentioned his brother Metallixes. After this the Metal Sonics were a Time Travelling army that erased Robotnik from history forcing Sonic to create Robotnik to stop them. They were beaten three times once with an EMP gun, the second time with a bomb that the Freedom Fighters placed in a Metallix they had taken down by Amy firing an arrow at their weakspot. The third time they turned both Mobius and the Little Planet into Machine worlds and beaten by Sonic using a shut down device that Robotnik built to stop them incase of Rebellion.
Nice video. I can understand some of the points being made here, however, I can't really see a lot of "out of character" moments for Metal Sonic. He always had tunnel vision when it came to Sonic so him following Tangle to get to the hedgehog was something I saw coming a mile away. MS was programmed to surpass the original in every way; the only way he can do that is defeating Sonic. To Metal: it's the only thing that gives him purpose. He's still incredibly dangerous as always; it's just that the game characters have had experience dealing with him. On the other hand, the counter-strategy to the dilemma is to use him sparingly like Darth Vader is to the Emperor. The problem with this is that Metal is Eggman's Chief Enforcer, his right hand bot; He's the first robot the doctor thinks of to get a job done to some level of success. The Emperor at least have multiple enforcers, not just Vader, at his beck and call. I can't think of another machine the Doctor's made (that's still operating) that can go toe-to-toe with Sonic & Friends and come out of it with just a few scrapes; plus, it would just mean he doesn't show up as much as he does now which may come off as neglectful to some fans.
Man, I've been reading Sonic comics from the beggining recently, and it's hard not to love Metal. The problem is, from a conceptual standpoint, Metal is a sort of ever-evolving threat. This can be seen in the fight against Sonic & Knuckles in Sonic the Comic, which was only won because of Fleetway, and it led to the Brotherhood of Metallix arc which was awesome. I haven't read the entire comic yet, but I can immediately see that he's much more than a simple villain. It's not something that can be dealt with in an arc, and then treated like garbage afterwards, it's one of the most essential recurring threats, working like a ticking time-bomb whose consequences could lead to a dead-end scenario (y'know, when people where actually at risk of dying). Metal Sonic is built to overcome the whole Eggman schtick and become one of the biggest menaces in the franchise, he shouldn't be thrown in scenes with no plan nor purpose. It sucks because he's easily one of the characters with the most potential; alas, the entity known as Sonic Maurice Hedgehog can't be surpassed nor overcomed (despite some of his best moments being at his lowest, when he shows lack of confidence, fear, and worry. A bit of which Frontiers has started to explore after a long while).
Heh, u think Metal Sonic had it bad in IDW Sonic? I'd say he had it worse in Archie Sonic from constantly getting destroyed or blown up. Well, specifically, the one made by the 2nd Robotnik, the original Metal Sonic aka Shard, is a whole other different story. At least Metal was handled a little better in Archie Sonic's new timeline
The funny thing about Archie Metal Sonic was that he was the only version of Metal Sonic who was actually more powerful than his version of Sonic. We saw him humiliate both Sonic and Sonic's even faster evil counterpart Scourge with ease (albeit not at the same time)
What's happening in IDW right now is basically just a repeat of what happened in Archie's preboot toward the end. Like, this isn't the first time Flynn's portrayal of the character has started to slip. For those unaware, over the course of one arc, Metal went from Mk.3.3 to _3.8,_ because he was getting blown up in every appearance he put in. Eggman would make a new Metal Sonic, it would go out and attack the heroes, and then it would explode by the end of the issue. At one point, Eggman activates Metal's self-destruct when he is fighting three characters who are all explicitly normal people with no superpowers, and only one of whom is armed. And the guy who is armed is using a _sword._ Like, purely out of spite, Eggman blows up Metal, and then immediately goes and builds a new one. He was constantly getting upstaged by similar characters, mostly Scourge and Shard, and while he did eventually get a win back over Shard, it came at the cost of him exploding again. Archie Metal Sonic got blown up so much that SEGA actually had to tell Flynn to stop doing that, and once the reboot came down, Metal never got exploded again, and remained a consistent threat for the rest of the book's run. I also don't really think Flynn _gets_ the point of Neo Metal as a form. And nor do a lot of the fandom. A lot of people complained about Neo Metal not being fought in his default form, and instead immediately transforming into Metal Madness. And so, Flynn delivered what the fandom wanted. But... look at him. His legs are almost completely enclosed in extra plating that seems to serve no purposes besides aesthetics. His shoulder-spikes are oversized and would collide with his quills if he tried to turn his head. He's got a huge piece of cloth directly below the exhaust for his engine. That form could not be more clearly designed to look regal and intimidating at the expense of combat capability if it tried. So no wonder he doesn't waste time trying, and just goes into his giant dragon form at the first opportunity. It's not a form Metal takes to get stronger, it's a form he takes to embody his new position as overlord, he's as kingly as he can get without slapping an actual crown on. So taking that and turning it into just a powered-up state that remains fully loyal to Eggman is... completely empty, and devoid of what made his evolution so cool in the first place. Also, like, the Metal Overlord didn't need an upgrade, he was already one of the only bosses in the series that could actually cause damage to Super forms rather than having to time them out. That puts him in the same category as Solaris and Dark Gaia, the former of which is still the most powerful entity that has ever appeared in the franchise. I think the best ting for Metal at this point would be to revert back to Heroes-era characterisation and make him a threat that Eggman can't fully control. He's aggressive, dangerous, and his cold, logical mind makes him far more pragmatic than Eggman's goofy antics, but there's also a touch of madness in there.
@@metalsonic4.1therobothedge24 I think a lot of Archie's villains suffered for Eggman's benefit. Flynn _really_ likes Eggman and he tried to avoid having other villains upstage him, even to the extent that it hurts the characterisation of said antagonists. Flynn's also on record saying that he doesn't think Sonic needs other villains when Eggman exists, which is a bit like saying "We don't need Brainiac or Zod or Darkseid, Superman's already got Lex Luthor as a villain!", completely missing that a wider array of villains is interesting because they can challenge the heroes in different ways. Metal is an obvious example, but when Finitevus' big strategy to blow up his enemies' home city is "Get Eggman to do it for him" and Naugus (who hates Eggman!) decides that the best way to assassinate Elias is "Call Eggman and let him do it", and the Dark Egg Legion is basically "A bunch of previous villains and a couple of new ones are now Eggman's pawns and if they rebel he blows their heads up", it starts to get a bit ridiculous. But nothing tops the utter waste of a concept that was Mecha Sally. The tactical mind behind the Freedom Fighters, who has been at the core of the network of FF cells across the planet for basically the entire series, and knows all of their strengths and weaknesses becomes a villain? That should be like Batman going evil and having full access to all of his contingencies. What does she do in the comic? Basically nothing. Yeah, the heroes start dropping like flies, but none of it has anything to do with Sally. Nicole and Bunnie give up because of Naugus. Antoine gets blown up by Eggman with Mecha Sally being barely present. Rotor doesn't even have anything bad happen to him, he just decides to stay at home. Eggman makes her into a battle robot and then she wins one fight. Against a depowered Bunnie. She could've been the comic's best archvillain ever, and she isn't because Eggman's got to be the central antagonist. Basically the only villain to escape this was Scourge, and he was basically the same problem writ small.
Aside from CD, Heroes, the Super Neo Metal arc and the Metal Virus saga Metal Sonic has just been lame, those 4 time are the only ones in the canon where he was compelling and worked well. He's been used in so many spin-offs and short stories/comics in which he was pathetic and nothing more than a minor inconvenience. Every time he appears for no reason and just loses to Sonic and the gang it just diminishes his impact as a villain, Metal has no screen presence now, when he shows up I just sigh, crack my knuckles and think "OK, let's get this over with loser". I bet most people don't even know he's canonically part of Sonic Colors and that you beat him 6 times in a race in that game, plus he gets clapped on the Rise of the Wisps short film. TL:DR: For me Metal became lame due to meaningless overexposure. It doesn't help either that he's being treated as a joke a lot of the time, like in the IDW Classic special and Mania Adventures' Holiday episode.
I think what would help metal sonic is a side kick. It would refresh the character a bit and finally have a little genius of his own, like tails is to sonic.
Sega should keep Metal Sonic absent for multiple games until they are ready to give him a big role. Maybe instead of having a wholesome brother-sister relationship with Sage, Sage is used a tool and hostage to make Eggman his b!tch Eggman: “Impossible! You have manage to resist Sage’s new programming. She conquers and controls every badnik in the Eggman Empire.” MS: “I…am the conqueror, I…am the Controller, I…AM…METAL SONIC!”
Personally I would be down with a sonic game where eggman, tired of metal sonic constantly failing, finally creates a new mark of Metal Sonic. But this time, its a hivemind nanotech army. Even if sonic were to somehow defeat one, they would simply repair another metal sonic or reform quickly. I feel this would be clever because it would showcase how eggman is willing to continue raising the stakes and to address how having 1 metal sonic hasn’t been working. You could still even continue having a central metal sonic by eventually having him be the reason why this plan fails, to prove to Eggman that he is ultimately his greatest creation and that he will never be replaceable.
I found Chaos Sonic to be a pretty interesting new take. Instead of the original's silent menace, he's a instead a dark reflection of Sonic's own personality. It's not inferentially better or worse than traditional Metal Sonic, just refreshing.
Because they want Metal Sonic to be a "kids" character even though his Arcs in Sonic CD, Sonic Heroes, Fleetway Sonic, Archie Sonic and IDW contradict him being a "kids character"
Ok, so... I wouldn't consider Metal's lackluster role in Generations to be that big of a problem, because that game wasn't really focusing on story that much. It was mostly just a "greatest hits" compilation of the franchise with an excuse plot. But the way he was used in Forces was definitely disappointing.
The only thing I can think of that has been made in more recent years where Metal Sonic is actually intimidating is with Mania and Triple Trouble 16-Bit, and those games were made by fans. I imagine having a fan game where he is the villain for a good chunk of it until later when he's against, say, Mecha Sonic and sacrifices himself like in the OVA would be an excellent choice too. There's just so much missed potential with this character in general. He still technically has a better fate than Fang though. He isn't even allowed to appear in more "modern" material for some largely unknown, strange, and completely stupid reasons. He isn't the only character in the classic series to get that treatment, but a lot of things could've been better utilized with him too.
The way they butchered mecha sonic is just because he has no special abilities. Look at the sonic ova movie. He can do this sorta holographic flight, Manifest a blue/purple aura, shoot beams of energy, go into a turbo mode that destroys anything in his path, was very unpredictable, could make a burst of energy that pushes everyone away from him and a few others. The thing that made metal sonic uncool is the fact he no longer has those cool abilities. If the idw comics can make a fancharacter real, they can easily make metal sonic have these abilities. The best ability he had though. He was a genuine match for sonic in every way. Now he just has a turbo thruster that slightly boosts him as his ability.
My favorite metal sonic stories are the ones where he goes his own way or acts independently of Eggman. Sonic heroes, the sonic OVA, and Shard from the Archie comics spring to mind. I even like Chaos sonic from Prime because his ego and desire to “rebrand” shows a level of desire and personality outside of just following the chaos council’s orders. Aside from the above instances, I’ve usually found metal sonic to be a bit overrated.
Ok he is right on metal sonic after heroes but we can all agree that heroes made metal sonic asomwe his goal and motive are fantastic the only time he great is just heroes and the idw comic the battle of angel island
If they wanted to get existential, Metal's arc going forward could dive in to his existence as an artificial copy whose primary purpose is to destroy the original. What is it like to exist as basically a murderous dark mirror? How does it feel to have your entire existence defined by this one specific individual you're supposed to kill?
Metal Sonic is my favorite Sonic character. That menacing vibe gives him a sense of presence that feels like the situation has just gotten serious. He feels like a genuine threat and a true challenge for Sonic and others to overcome. ...Until recently. I feel like it can generally be chalked up to SEGA's overreliance on nostalgia pandering, but he's really been getting shafted lately. Not just in the comics, but in general. He was great in Mania Adventures, but ever since he's mostly been getting relegated to a minor obstacle to be overcome or slapped into scenes to give Eggman some personality dynamic rather than to genuinely use him for anything of substance. SEGA's even going all in on this being Amy's anniversary year despite Metal's debut being in the same game. If they're running out of ideas for how to use him as an obstacle to overcome in the story, it might be time to start incorporating some character development. Like with Omega and Gemerl before him, it could be time for Metal to stop being so stubbornly loyal to Eggman and start adopting a more independent point of view. I don't think we necessarily need him to start turning a new leaf and becoming a good guy, but imagine if he decided to go his own way and started becoming a threat totally independent of Eggman? At the very least, it would be nice for him to start getting used for something more than "Eggman being a dad" scenes.
I think that a story where Metal takes a page out of Taskmaster's book and really analyses Sonic's moves and it's a story where some Sonic characters start going missing and it's Metal taking them out and working his way up to Sonic. Some characters would survive but this is a story where Metal could take out Sonic. In this it could also fix the characters of Tails and Knuckles forcing Tails to become brave again and Knuckles to stop being a dumbass and be a tactical warrior again. To add your part to the story the final boss could have Eggman messing about in the fight to try and help Metal but it ends up backfiring and Metal realises that if he wants to be the best Sonic he has to ditch Eggman
A good idea is in then next sonic 3d game they should use metal and the girl in founters when it's a relationship that she isnt the first powerful crashon
His fight against Surge was a proving point. Surge stood no chance against Metal until Kit joined in. If Surge can't beat Metal solo no way could she beat Sonic. Metal only loses to people ganging up on him and in the comic Sonic is almost never solo anymore. Metal just needs better back up *cough cough New Metal Knuckles cough*
She's still right about him; he has no heart or soul, and he's not goo enough to be a fake Sonic or a fake her. Why? Because, in the end, Metal Sonic is just a fake Eggman. He's a manifestation of Eggman's envy and hatred for Sonic. Destroying Sonic is all that Metal Sonic desires, whether he's in Eggman's power or not. Sonic should have known better than to have had him reactivated, but at least he's not letting anyone but Eggman repair him anymore.
The problem is Metal Sonic is a mainstay when he shouldn’t. If you want Metal Sonic to be what he was on the games then you have to stop using him period. That’s why I never understood why Sonic fans loved him as a consistent rival for Sonic he sucks. Sonic’s always going to beat him because Sonic is always getting faster and getting newer levels of power, plus Sonic has his friends as a last resort who are all capable in their own right. So you’re never going to get Metal Sonic to consistently be a threat especially when Eggman has to be in charge. Take him out of the book for arcs, maybe even a sequel ear and when he comes back do something big, otherwise he has to be like this
Sonic is always going to beat any new rival and maybe not the first but he still wins. Metal can win sometimes just like how in the IDW comics Metal had Sonic group corner with his leg injured but luck was definitely on sonic side when Eggman was in trouble. He’s also managed to beat Shadow or at least out smart him time to time. He’s not some empty robot waiting orders half the time he can make his own decisions when he’s alone.
I think Metal appearing in a future sonic movie would be great. We've seen robotnik try to fights sonic his own way, and even with the chaos emerald, it failed. The next logical step would be for him to come to the conclusion that if he cant beat sonic, then he should copy and improve upon him instead..
I would like to point out one often overlooked fact.... metal was designed by eggman to be sonics equal, yes... but at the level sonic was at in Sonic CD. Sonic, being a living being, undergoes self-improvement while Metal requires someone to upgrade him for the same result. That's why Metal seems less of a threat now. Sonic is stronger and faster now than before while Eggman spent a good bit focusing on other plans rather than keeping Metal up to date
The IDW was still disrespectful Seriously Metal Overlord losing to a bunch of base forms is stupid The way Super Neo lost was also stupid If Neo can solos Sonic Then Shadow shouldnt of touched Super Neo, mostly when it should be stronger than Super Sonic
Yep, IDW really did Metal Sonic dirty in every way, even the Overlord form got nerfed even though it should take Super Team Blast from Any Super Team to defeat the bastard rather than just one base ultimate hedgehog form
I just want Mecha Sonic MKI and MKII to have a chance to shine again. I feel there is more that can be done with them instead of just reusing Metal Sonic over and over again.
=WELL,METAL COULD HAVE SOME USE..........BUT YUJI NAKA DISAGREED WITH *_CRUNCHING TIME_* SO.....WE'LL NEVER SEE ANY ATTEMPT OF TRYING DO METAL TO SHINE AGAIN...LIKE HE DID IN HEROES =BESIDES, ISNT YUJI NAKA'S METAL JUST BROKEN??BC OF HE STILL KEEPS THESE DATA OF EVERYONE,THO
I gotta disagree about Metal in CD. If Metal doesn't show up to kidnap Amy, nothing fundamentally changes about the story. The Race is iconic, but it's ultimately just a novelty. I think the center of the issue is being misplaced. In the video, metal is being compared to many iconic second in commands in other series and being stated is what he should be. The thing is is..that IS what he is these days and he still feels like fodder. This is because Metal himself is kind of a dead end character. Outside of his cool design, there is very little to him to take him anywhere and unlike the examples given, Sonic is a perpetually ongoing brand or series, so Metal Sonic is destined to feel like fodder because he is destined to lose and therefore just come off as an obligatory show-up as he keeps being put into more pieces of media. Metal peaked in Heroes where he tried and failed the whole betrayal thing, and frankly there just isn't anywhere else to go with his character without some radical shake up. Frankly when he shows up, it just feels like forced fanservice these days and little else. Personally I would just reserve to not putting him in everything. Metal was only ever a major threat to be taken seriously when he was Neo Metal. Both in the games and in IDW. If I'm being honest, I feel an unreasonable amount of prestige is placed on him because of the OVA.
I’m just sad that the other Sonic bots don’t appear as often because of him. I wish Metal, Sage, Silver/Robo and Mecha could all appear all alongside each other.
Personally i think the reason why Metal Sonic is not playing smart anymore and just trying to fight everyone (and ultimantly loosing constantly) is because after the Metal Virus Arc hes having a sort of identity crisis, who knows what he was thinking when he was dipping his claws into the goo? So hes trying desperatly to prove to himself that hes the superior Sonic. So much so he's just blindly rushing in out of spite
Archie Metal Sonic was the best version of his character. He was always seen as a threat, unless you were Sonic, Shadow, Shard, or Scourge. You weren’t beating him, even in a group. Whenever he arrived everyone was scared.
Here's my opinion. Metal isn't a run of the mill badnik, he's used to indicate that either Eggman sees what the character he's fighting as a genuine threat to his plans, used to stall the heros, or used as a killing blow. His biggest weakness is that he, as a replica of sonic, still has his own pride. That has him make stupid decisions sometimes. Whenever he's stopped, it's often because of his pride, or because he gets tunnelvision for one fighter, and while he's going for the kill he gets sucker punched. In the comics, he was only ever outright overpowered once (by Surge, who's powers are a hard counter to robots in general). And, the most important thing is his tenacity. That robot takes after Sonic in that way, he retreats because of tactical or strategic reasons, but only ever gets outright stopped a handful of times. He's one of those villans who, if you don't see the body, he'll be back later in the story when it's least convenient for the heros. That's my two cents.
In 1 sibgle video, you referenced Halo (my fav franchise), Lotr (my 2nd), Star wars (my 3rd) and the video is about sonic (my 4th). You've got a new sub! Also great video! Keep up the good work!
It still bothers me that Metal Sonic only has three quills and a bald spot. That's not how Sonic looked like. The blue blur was never that bald canonically. Why didn't Eggman make Metal look more accurate to Sonic in terms with amount of quills? Isn't Eggman supposed to be a perfectionist?
For the longest time, Metal sonic has always been my favorite sonic character ever since I first got into sonic as a whole. Originally it was simply because I had a weird obsession with robots and I thought his design was the coolest of them all (which I still stand by, shadow is overrated af and I still say he's practically the personified blueprint for every angsty pre-teens edgy overpowered oc plz no stele) However the more I grew the more I grew to love him as a character because despite that expressionless menacing Visage and the more often then not, silent foreboding lack of speech, he always showed massive potential, not just as a villain, but the potential to be one of if not the best written character in all of the franchise (which isn't that hard really as most characters in sonic aren't exactly the most deep in terms of motives and development tbh...) So let's start with the villain aspect of him Metal sonic, from a purely villain standpoint, is pretty terrifying. He was made as the protagonists copy (before the term "fake hedgehog" was thrown around more then bead necklaces at a parade) that alone is a scary thought with sonic basically being one of the most powerful characters in the sonic universe. But metal took it a step further. He wasn't just sonics copy, but he was built to be sonics BETTER. In every conceivable way. Faster, stronger, more durable, he could fly, he could utilize abilities not even sonic himself had like the black shield, his chest laser, electrical charges and more. And if that wasn't broken enough, he eventually developed the ability to adapt. Learning and copying the abilities of other characters. (Not quite to the degree of Emerl, but pretty close) There's a reason in the majority of media, sonic is RARELY if EVER able to beat metal sonic on a 1v1. There's always some third party or factor that results in metals downfall. Be it Eggmans gate at the end of sonic CD, or sonics numerous allies. Chances are, if metal took the idea to re-activate every other sonic robot and/or robotic version of other characters, or just got put into a 1v1 deathmatch against sonic with no external factors, he could very well win. Sonic heros showed us just a fraction of the potential metal is capable of. But sadly now he's just a joke. No better then your average badnic. A punching bag for the cast as a whole. But this is all just surface level villain portrayal stuff. Let's get onto the real meat of the matter (or... metal, in this case.) ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The criminal misuse of Metal Sonic's character. Metal may not seem to have that much of a character at first glance. He has no facial expressions, no real goal passed whatever Eggman tells him to do, and rarely even a voice. However... that hasn't stopped moments of personality peeking through the cracks of his cold robotic exterior Metal sonic as a character, is an impossible tragedy. Let me break it down for you. Despite everything, metal is a deeply troubled individual. He was made as a better version of sonic. His soul purpose to beat sonic. His whole goal in sonic heros was to prove HE was the REAL sonic. But despite everything, he lost. He was forced to realize... he's just a copy. Not only is his entire point for existing a lie, but he never could live up to his purpose of beating his nemisis. He's stuck in this perpetual loop of trying desperately to validate his existence. His purpose for being. But he can't. It's probably the worst torment imaginable. Being constantly stuck in someone else's shadow to the point where you yourself are nothing without them, you can see why he has such a hatred of sonic, one thats gone long passed the point of "just because he was programed to". Because by design, he is nothing without him. Everything he is is derived from sonic. Even if he did win, even if he did beat sonic, he would still be haunted by his own meaningless existence and lack of self. You can see glimpses of this dilemma when shadow extends his hand in peace, offering Metal the chance to become something more then just a weapon. Or when Metal battled Shard for the last time, he hesitated striking the killing blow once shard told him there could be more to life then just "priority one: hedgehog" But ultimately... he never could escape that shadow. He never could manage to move on and find his own purpose. His own self. Be it because of being unable to let go of his hatred, and/or because of Eggmans programming or otherwise preventing him from doing so. That's the true tragedy of metal. Something nobody really seems to utilize. I feel if given the chance, metal could become a force for good. He could become his own being. His own person, and step out from being just an accessory to sonic or Eggman respectively. But sadly... till then, he's just another punching bag. Just another badnick. Just another one liner contrast to sonic, all in all, Just another joke... Edit: Another thing is despite everything, metal probably feels indebt to Eggman for his creation, hence why he sticks around. It's like darth vader and Palpatine Metal has nothing else. Even if Eggman can be abusive, controlling, and manipulative, where gamma had birdie, omega had team dark, and shard had his own gang of freedom fighters... metal has nothing. Hence why he feels committed to Eggman despite hating him at some points. That's all he knows. That's the closest thing to a purpose he has. It's honestly sad.
I only partake in the games. My opinion is that specifically Metal Sonic is over used and just kinda thrown in often as a, “hey remember that race in Sonic CD?” Or “hey remember metal sonic? Fight him cus.” With no real impact to the story and no sense of, “wow he’s a threat.” Most of the times. I liked it much better when every sonic game, there was a newer model of ‘anti sonic’ robot. The tiny silver 1. The upgraded normal sized silver 1. Metal sonic. Than mecha sonic from Sonic & Knuckles (my personal favorite design) which used to be that silver sonic or so i heard. TECHNICALLY shadow counts as an anti sonic robot too. And than yes the 1 upgrade to metal sonic in Sonic Heros. Seeing these differing, advancing robots to be anti sonic was epic and ever changing. From a doinky little robot who served almost no threat. To several who could rumble with sonic or match his speed. As well looked more and more like the real sonic (besides Mecha’s eye bar). Also in ascetics & story Metal Sonic was made sleek and fast with the purpose of racing, not fighting sonic. Where as the others were made specifically to fight sonic. So it just kinda bugs me when they use un-upgrades Metal Sonic to FIGHT sonic instead of race him. I think mecha should be used in fights and metal in races. Giving us a bit more of variety. Maybe even give them new moves, weapons, something. Some sense of, “oh cool he’s upgrades!” Or “i didn’t expect that.”
Unfortunately they can’t let Metal win. 1) He’s the bad guy and bad = always lose in Sonic universe…. So stupid. 2) If he manages to defeat Sonic, he’s going to literally Murder him, and you can’t have the main character die. 😂
I prefer Metal Sonic in the Archie series tbf. Not Shard, the one we all know and love. The one that (much like in the games) showed up on occassion, was mildly threatening, but was defeated numerous times. Essentially an elita drone. Only for Eggman to give him an intelligence upgrade, allowing Metal Sonic to become self aware... And self aware of his previous, multiple loses, with one of his first thoughts and first words essentially being: "I have been defeated HOW many times?.. This is BULLSH#T. I'm better than this!"
I didn't think too much of Metal Sonic before, but after thinking about it for a bit (as well as hearing an AI made theme song for him, random I know), I really want to see him at least being teased at the end of Sonic 3.
Honestly, I think the biggest issue is that Metal takes Ls to characters besides Sonic and his equals (ala. Shadow). Remember that he’s a machine, so it makes sense that his progress is staggered and that while Sonic and co. get stronger, he remains (unless he’s upgraded). It makes sense that Sonic would outgrow him, and narratively, that could be used for a really enthralling character arc for Metal. One where he becomes obsessed with tricking Eggman into endlessly upgrading him. What doesn’t work is having him take so many Ls to side characters. It kind of unravels the idea that he IS a threat at all.
It feels like Metal Sonic is due for a serious update or upgrade. Starline clearly had "build a superior Metal Sonic" in mind with Surge. Although she was hugely amped up by the Dynamo Cage and that adrenal rush that comes with pure rage. Metal Sonic should return severely hardened against his known limitations and weaknesses. Since those and not being actually overpowered is what brought him down. In his base form Eggman got everything right, but his ability to stay in the fight has waned as his targets and rivals has improved. If Metal Sonic returns and is just unstoppable, he will be interesting again.
Unpopular opinion. But Metal Sonic should have had a story like in the OVA where he just stays dead like e-102 Gamma. Would make his character far more impactful and there'd be less room to mess his character up. But of course that's impossible since he's a fully established character.
@@darkexe3161 Yep and that should be Amy Rose. Her rivalry with Metal Sonic should be a regular stable since she has outgrown her fear of robots and she is his first enemy who isn't Sonic
I'd say that the whole _Metal Sonic is actually another Sonic from a different timeline who got roboticized_ theory should be canonized, and his inability to win plays into why even as a robot... He can never truly hope to get a W.
Maybe with a New design metal could be more loved. Since sonic's design is appearently all about Christmas, why not make metal Halloween purple and orange with pink eye! Hear any takers?
Meh I don’t really care for metal anymore. Personally I enjoy mecha sonic more, he had huge character development and a great short plot from the Scrapnik island arc. I was happy to see a Sonic clone actually have some motivation beyond “Im the better version of you” and actually want to clash with eggman using Sonic’s body as an ends to justify the means. He had his own free will and while eggmans code damaged his thinking and made him lash out he still thought for himself and had his own reasoning. Metal sonic is just kinda stale and old to me at this point, like his plot has been explained time and time again. We get it.. can we have something new please? Either revise the character or just scrap it (no pun intended) and make a new villain or sonic clone. Of course Sega won’t rework or get rid of their staple sonic villain😅
Does the writer of the IDW Sonic comics realize that Metal is a fan favorite and we don’t want to see him get clapped over and over again. It’s actually so frustrating, I stopped reading the comics. Metal isn’t supposed to be a pushover….its like the writers forgot Metal is greater or equal to Sonic!
Yeah, Sonic Team and SEGA really didn't know what to do with Metal Sonic after Sonic Heroes except shove him into any new spin-off game. But I feel like the fatigue started at the same point as Green Hill zone's, they just kept appearing for no reason over and over again after Sonic Generations Seeing as Sonic Team are finally dropping Green Hill for Sonic Superstars, I'm also hoping that Metal Sonic DOES NOT appear. Other robots need the spotlight for a change; such as Mecha Sonic (Mk1 or Mk2), Metal Knuckles, and Tails Doll. But seeing as Nack is back and Trip is being introduced, I doubt any of those will make it in, but I'm just gonna hope.
If they wanna keep shoving Metal Sonic even more into the games, at least continue to develop his character and let's say, I would accept if Game Metal Sonic becomes like Shard from the Archie comics. That will be way better than the joke of a robot he became in 2010s
I totally agree. He just feels so unnecessary most of the time... Sonic Mania? Appeared as a cool boss fight in Stardust Speedway, but had literally no bearing on the story. Sonic Forces? It's not even the real Metal Sonic; its just an illusion. The Archie comics also had so many different Metal Sonics until SEGA told them that there was only one Metal Sonic.
@@Wolfric_RogersSega of Japan told Archie that there is only one Metal Sonic because the ones in charge of both Sega of Japan and Archie (who are now Sega of Japan puppets) wanted to reboot the Archie Sonic comics even before the lawsuit due to greed and refusal to pay royalties. Ken Penders never claimed Shard yet they still killed him off anyway because you know? Spite towards others who are not even named Ken Penders and those who don't follow Pellerito and Spaziante's 'visions' Mainly Mike Pellerito felt that there is "no use" for Shard outside Preboot and he and his friends are known for Sabotaging the Archie Comics even when Penders isn't around anymore Shard is most likely Mike Gallagher's character, not Ken Penders' character and the character has way too many legal complications behind his development. If Shard is undoubtedly Mike Gallagher's baby, then it means he is a public domain character like Fiona Fox and all his other Sonic characters
tbh i don't think anyone at Sega hates Metal Sonic he just doesn't have much to do that doesn't get ripetitive Like ... Archie so much shit with him that i dunno what and what not Metal could still do I hope Sage can change that for him
In sonic forces Infinite had Metal's usual role of the dangerous right hand of the main villain What's even worse in forces is how they did chaos. They showed Chaos in the opening scene and mention him a few times, but did nothing else with him, there isn't even a boss fight. Considering Chaos is an ancient diety who can destroy entire nations, and alot of knuckles' lore comes from Chaos. They really can't just make him a lesser side character
