The Problem with Paladins in D&D 

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While I feel a majority of paladins should be lawful, there is room for experimentation.

I'm gonna sit in this space so those people don't have any room to sit down. I'm also gonna fart.

Wibbity- woobity, I played a oathbreaker and had a good time! 😛

@@MM-lv7iy MY MAN!!! *high fives*

"ELDRICH BLAST" A wise person

"Fireball. Just Fireball. NOTHING BUT FIREBALL!!!" A wise person.

_JoFeline, the Wise_

Welcome to a crap guide to dnd

*bouncy bardy string picking intro*

This but "IT'S gonna be fun for me"

Sounds like something for Warhammer40k

Celestial warlock multiclass and even pc themselves is kicking and screaming, at their patron. Constantine

"You are being rescued, do not resist, this is a threat"

Totally valid. Don’t let them yuck your yum!

Paladins are great for being evil as well, you can be an Oathbreaker or Oath of Conquest paladin

Shows more lack of creativity on their part to be honest. 🤷🏿‍♂️

Super valid. I've never enjoyed playing characters that enjoy hurting people. The best I can do is a character that doesn't go out of their way to hurt people, but looks after themselves first, even if it's sometimes at the expense of others. Like my capacity to do good is much more limited in real life, so my power fantasy is also someone who can do large amounts of good without even sweating it. Good can come in so many flavors too, it doesn't always have to be a law-abiding goodie two-shoes! Sometimes stealing is morally correct, an example that this very video brings up, lol.

I love playing a good, albeit neutral to chaotic alignment, character. It is very satisfying to put good into the world even in a game 😊

So Guts, basically

My paladin would definitely put his life on the line before breaking his vengeance oath, but will not allow others to die for his selfish desire of vengeance. I mean if he has the choice of either defending you or going all in against the bad guy, he would go for the bad guy, and if you die I am sorry. But if he had to chose from saving you of falling out of ledge and letting the bad guy run away he would bregudgely save you. Cause evil must be punish, but I am not evil my self if I let others die under my choice?

Same

My Paladin became an Oathbreaker because my DM and I agreed it would be fun and since he couldn't remember his past he was technically breaking his old oaths by swearing to stop the Chessmaster of a BBEG out of pure spite. We're flavoring Oathbreaker as the Oath of Spite and gave it a single class abilty: twice per long rest he can say "fuck that" to any nat 20s or nat 1s.

They don't have to break their oath. "By any means necessary" is utilitarian thinking, if youre pursuing vengeance to the detriment of people who don't deserve it, then is it really justice? That's sort of the difference between an unhinged bully who just wants to impose their morality on everyone versus a person delivering proper street justice; a champion of the people who strives to protect them and only stacks bodies in extreme circumstances.

Their parents were killed, one wants to kill the perp, thus becoming an oath of vengence paladin, the other angry to all hells wants to kill the perp, thus becoming a barbaran.

For Paladins its supposed to the the devotion, not emotion that gives them power. And this video gets the traditional limits on alignment so wrong. They are restricting, but that is in keeping with what it takes to attain this level devotion. People often roleplay it poorly because they go too black and white with it. Forgetting that their character is in fact a flawed lifeform, chasing an ideal. They will stumble in their devotion from time to time, they will crack in their stoicism and let down their guard from time to time. Thus making these moments more valued for them and their comrades. That is the class. Whining about, I want to play a paladin and play how ever I want, flies in the face of what the class actually is. Stepping outside ourselves and roleplaying an alignment that is foreign to us, is where so much of the magic from D&D can be created. Rather than gimme what I want, because I want it.

@@Duncan275 I have waited for an excuse to do a paladin dragon who is librarian devoted to his library for so long

@@Duncan275 Forced alignment restrictions are ALWAYS bad. Every deity has holy wariors super devoted to them, but if you're super devoted to say, a chaotic good deity, guess what your alignment is going to be... and that doesn't mean chaotic good deities never have paladins, that makes no sense. Absolute devotion to an ideal can take many forms, not all of those forms are going to be Lawful Good. Paladins get their powers from zeal and devotion, and are basically a more martial form of a cleric, channeling it into their martial discipline moreso than for spellcasting. They should absolutely be many alignments, based on A) what they are devoted to, and B) how they themselves interprete its meaning. If it's a deity, they are going to embody the nature of that deity. And no, it isn't restricted to good. Evil deities should have paladins too and not just fallen ones. Every god has champions, and many causes and ideals do too... what makes a paladin is their devotion being taken to such extreme levels it starts to manifest as powers, channeled from that concept and their faith. Simply put the idea of the holy, absolute warrior blessed by their devotion to what they believe in should be much more universal than just "always lawful good". Clerics make far more sense, needing to be within a step of their deity's alignment. Paladins should be the same if they have a deity, and if it's an ideal it's all about their interpretation of that ideal.

@@Prismwind Because you are devoted to a Chaotic Good deity, doesn't mean u can be chaotic good yourself. Paladins are champions and protectors of the Deity's belief(which itself is lawful in nature). A paladin can believe in a Chaotic good deity, but their function doesn't allow them to be Chaotic themselves. A soldier that disobeys command is fundamentally a shitty soldier, ya he can be a good swordsman but he failed his function as a soldier. In role-playing wise, lawful good doesn't mean everything action you do must be "lawful" or "good", that is a machine not a human(other races) being. A paladin belief in a chaotic good deity may join up with a group of thieves if the local government is shitty. Also, for evil deities... their champion is called Blackguard or Antipaladin, which by itself stands as a class.

This is similar to my character who I made with his Oath I called “The path of Victory” basically it was a character who’s main flaw was his overwhelming need to be victorious to a toxic point, and we decided that I’d be the only person in the party not using XP but instead a achievement system where if I lost in battle or in any situation my character saw as a challenge I would lose power or in case of winning I would gain power. It made for awesome character role play potential and hilarious comedic moments of my character having existential crisis over something as simple as not peeling fruit as well as another party member and literally becoming weaker because of it.

You made Lucius the Eternal, nice!

Lol in a funny way you made a character very similar to an old school paladin. They were better than everyone else. They didn’t have to sneak because they weren’t cowards and would face things head on. They were Nobel but that was also part of their conceit.

Sounds awful to play in the same table lol

For some reason this reminded me a lot of Gaston... But that is such a good idea!

Honestly it makes a lot of sense since you basically betrayed the very thing giving you your powers, so you literally break a part of you/your soul... Heartattacks make sense

I read a great series where breaking a blood oath basically nearly mentally killed some one over a little time, since your literal life was devoted to someone magically. It made for some interesting plot moments when one of the main characters broke theirs in a show of defiance over what their master was doing (they lived dont worry)

So yeah it makes sense

Had a paladin in mine who got goaded into throwing a bomb she wasn't aware was a bomb. She never lived it down.

Fi from the Master Sword

So Deadpool if he gave a damn about the legality of his actions?

Now I'm imagining a character shifting to Lawful Good while the Paladin is mid-conversation with the sword, thinking they finally fucking lost it.

What if someone kills their spouse?

@@Mark73 Switch to Oath of Vengeance

Roran Garrowson is the inspiration you need

M'lady

LITERALLY SAME 😂

So your celestial being was just Visa?

Sir Ponzi, paying off his old debts by owing a new God a new debt in a chain of debts.

Annnnnnd that's how MLM was born... 😂

Sounds like a warlock though

"The Oath of the Ponzi" eh?

There's not enough words to say how true this is, and how much of an inspiration he is to me and I'm sure to many others too.

Goat

Pointy Hat is king

Couldn't have said it better

​@@mr.zendar885Should rebrand to Pointy Crown.

I can see some comedic moments with that one. A party member is grappling with a goblin, the paladin does his ceremony and poof, they are now married to the goblin.

@@ttbrianm Then have some divorce related debuff for added shenanigans

@@M33f3r And has to give the goblin half their gold as part of the divorce. Go goblin!

Horny bards and paladins would hate that 😂

"Ceremony", D&D 3.5

Initially? Did she have character development?

@@RedeemerofDark Yeah! we had a run-in with a few kenku who were repeating some sentences that heavily implicated them in a murder that had happened. My paladin deemed them the wrong-doers and swung, not knowing how kenku worked. Turns out they were innocent; they had hidden away when the murder happened. They were the witnesses. She only realised their innocence afterwards. Naturally, she's been more doubtful of her don't-ask-just-go approach and her 'justice' since then.

@@nom2157 Very nice and straightforward 👍

That's a neat twist! I played one in a Diablo themed campaign and made him an overzealous demon hunter haha

⁠@@nom2157I don’t understand, she should have broken her oath by being reckless and slaughtering innocents. Isn’t a watcher paladin supposed to protect innocents from space monsters (summarized crudely ofc)

This is insane, just yesterday I made and played a paladin whose main goal was to save his younger brother who was cursed with lycanthropy by a powerful werewolf (Loup Garou) that he must kill, and we were thinking if one of the party members could actually secretly be that Loup Garou! I just wanted to comment under this, too, because of just the similarity of recently playing a paladin who wants to protect his brother 😆

Ha, nice!

@@jannfredryckmatias3545 This is insane, just yesterday I made and played a paladin whose main goal was to save his younger brother who was cursed with vampirism by a powerful vampire (Loup Varou) that he must kill, and we were thinking if one of the party members could actually secretly be that Loup Varou I just wanted to comment under this, too, because of just the similarity of recently playing a paladin who wants to protect his brother 😆

I'm crying over this

One of my favorite Magic The Gathering cards "Champion of the Parish", not only has a great ability but his flavor text: "I stand for every cobbler, tanner, and fool in this town - and they stand for me."

BBEG: Hold on, yall said there were no Paladins in this town Captain: There aren't, only citizens. BBEG: What does that even- *SMITE*

This description gave me chills!

I had that npc lol

I know I'm super late, but I actually have an Oath of Vengance Paladin with a single level dip into Barbarian! She's an angry little girl and- though I have never been able to get her high enough to where her backstory comes into play at the table- her entire character Arc is "when one seeks vengeance, one must dig two graves." She could either fulfill her vengeance by killing the people who killed her father (leaving her hollow and ultimately unfulfilled) or figuring out "Hey, the man my Papa worked for was actually kind of shit and I was a super sheltered child?" And turning her vengeance away that way.

Disguised bard

Time to start the PH Temple

fucking same

so you picked your class hold onto your ass cause race a part of a role you can play some sentient clay a he she or they. a beast that gets real snarly a regular dude name Charley if home brew is free a big talking tree welcome to a half guide to dnd

ALL HAIL POINTY

​@@johndargis7656 I'm sorry repeat that?

I love OotA, its like... an Oath to being a hippie. fun to roleplay any way you want to approach it. Wanna be a druid knight? How about some old ass oath-sworn protector? Fairy Knight? Defender of the natural against the forces of other planes? (I'll admit with oath of the watchers there, its a much more direct alternative).

If you play tier 4 in dnd having a Ancients in the party is a must. Undying at level 15 also prevents paladin from aging, at this point the paladin no longer has a lifespan. Finally forcing any creature out of shapeshift on a failed save is truly op in role playing. You can truly wreck DM's plot by forcing a big bad to reveal itself.

@@unknownvalor9755 I do think it is quite good, the only Paladin class I'd personally rate higher than it is Vengeance. Giving the class with the highest single turn damage potential the ability to specify one guy and absolutely erase them from existence is satisfying as hell to watch as a DM, at least for me. I'm just glad when my players remember they can exploit a feature of theirs and use it to greatly help with an encounter, I love it when they actually use their features to outsmart me.

@@deadseven3474 ​ @unknownvalor9755 I don't know. In most my 5e games aura of warding was never used that much. Most spellcasters use debuffs and CCs and when big elemental damage comes into play... it's from abilities like dragon breath whose aura of warding does nothing. Even devotion aura was better because "no" to charm mostly means no mind control. You can force someone to go out of shapeshift if it's shapeshifting not shapechange. For example, it does nothing against changelings. Ancient is one of the subclasses that you need to know that you're going to fight fey, evil druids or mages using magic to do damage not banish, charm, wall of forcing you etc. For example, it can easily shut down enemy warlocks! Undying is mostly just for RP. It's cool. Like... you can be a knight that was standing like a statue in an ancient tomb defending it and then when evil came you woke up. Sadly in the 15th level. Vengeance on the other hand... like Deadseven said. It's just stronger because in 5e action economy, damage and CCs are the kings not healing and tanking. Hunter mark, misty step and channel divinity of vengeance pala are just too strong in later tiers. You can dish out cosmic level of damage with polearms which this subclass is build for. And when you're mounted is strong. About mounts... Do you know? Paladins WITHOUT subclass is strong enough base that they don't have any weak choice because the weakest choice is still a strong one because paladin. In t4 almost immortal (you can summon it and heal it because of special rules), flying paladin on fooking gryphon is scary enough. And I still prefer the oath of the watchers. Because I love templars in dragon age and hunting evil mages is fun. Even if the subclass is weak.

@@deadseven3474 My main D&D character is 100% a hippie paladin. He's a paladin of small and forgotten gods, like the kind worshipped in a single out-of-the-way village or discovered as a crumbling idol in an overgrown temple. His oath is to protect the small and downtrodden, and he forswore unnecessary possessions, owning only his robes, his blade, and a pack of supplies. He's multiclassed with hexblade (CHA for attack and damage, and Armor of Shadows so he can use mage armor instead of needing to own expensive plate armor), and last time I played him he swore his Oath of Ancients to the primordial tree/deity that a druidic commune called home, swearing to find a way to cure its blight. He's an itinerant holy weirdo who refuses to wear shoes and I love him so much

Oath of cloutchasing

The oath of Crom... I will crush my enemies, see them driven before me, and will hear lamentations of their women.

Though not a d&d idea, I am recently working on a framework for an idea around the ancient "eden" of Arcadia protected during a Golden Age by the goddess Astaera and how it was corrupted by Prometheus. Kind of a faction based, which divinity do you side with kind of idea for maybe an mmorpg?

Evening Glory+Orkus. They both really click when it comes to the idea of undead

@@huivnthecaitiff1098 it’s a reference to Aphrodite and Ares in Greek mythology

make a godess similar to ishtar and you'll do both.

Pladins and Clerics of Freya: Those are the same picture.

i had an oath of Devotion paladin as well. but my Secret worship to Vecna got figured out with a failed roll on Slight of hand when i was attempting to re-hide my Amulet of a Hand holding an Eye after our party got arrested because our monk decided to pick a fight. when the party first meet my character they didnt even question my Left hand being a prosthetic and having a fake eye. it was an interesting session for sure, instead of trying to break out all they wanted to do was interrogate me for half our session. All was forgiven when my Background False identity got us out of jail. but they didnt know part of why i joined the group was to lead them into a trap. This character replaced the one i played before that died while raiding an abandoned temple where a Cult of Vecna worshipers were gathering. Funny enough they didnt kill one of them. so when i talked to the DM, he let me turn that character into my new character for an interesting storyline.

¿Devotion? All right take a heavy weapon (greatsword or a greataxe), use your channel divinity to add extra modifier to your attacks and combine it with greatweapon master. The results won't disappoint you.

Vin diesel as a little old lady

Also, you got a happy subscriber.

I'm in love with this idea. Now I want to see more Alignment-bound Paladins with abilities that specifically target their enemies.

This is so good. Maybe you get an oracle device (like a dice, or a coin) and your DM can force you to do a roll to choose what you're doing. And you could definitely go for wild magic, but divination also has massive potential (maybe smite and force an enemies next roll to be something predetermined? Or buff an ally's roll. Of course getting overridden by nat 20/1 as that means that fate itself clearly had chosen the outcome, and who are you to intervene)

I actually played a chaotic neutral rogue like this once. He was not a sloppy guy, he was ideologically devoted to chaos and worshipped Tymora, goddess of luck. I played his alignment by flipping a coin with Tymora's visage on one side when I had to make a binary choice with narrative weight. I flipped one irl. It was fun but it killed him in the very last encounter in the campaign.

@@igor_kossov Thats quite a poetic end if you ask me

*Sir. Unless he's in Westeros.

That reminds me of Cecil from FF IV, except, that girl had a mother, who... anyways he turns to Redemption, and the girl, turns out to be the parties Druid...

You can stay conquest. Just change your targets! "I will bring ruination to anyone who attacks someone before their fated hour of conflict. I will shatter their bones to dust and spread it amongst the crops of the future. One day a soul I spared will stand against me and in that moment, I'll see the fulfillment of my oath as their strength runs true." And you basically chase after fights that are of equal or greater strength with the ability to put that aside to beat down those who only look for the weak.

@@riastlin2891 Absolutely! That was my original plan. Add a conflict of faith with the introduction of Ilmater, and explore the nuances between conquest as eradication and conquest as protection. But then again, this Oath Of Love looks sooo clear in concept, and sounds like a super fun device for directly incorporating said change of faith. Maybe *eventually*...

I'm all for making Oathbreakers that defy the traditional edgy, Darth Vader route Recently I've wanted to play an Oathbreaker Revenant for Curse of Strahd The idea is this: The Oathbreaker was once a knight, and swore a sacred oath that he would slay Strahd alongside his comrades. Only for him to flee the battle in fear. Upon his inevitable death, the sheer, uncontrolled hatred of his fallen comrades, combined with the innate darkness of Barovia, bound his spirit eternally to the land, not unlike Strahd himself. His paladin abilities come from his innate connection to Barovia itself. Rather than an edge lord, he's a kind, polite, soft spoken father figure with a healthy amount of existential dread and regret

I'm a grown man and I still can't comprehend Baldur gate 1 and 2's mechanics

@@DarkGreenFire Welcome to THAC0 and D&D 2e. The poor game had nothing to do with it, it was just born with dumb inverted armor class.

Love Sabaton. At least someone else noticed it!

paladins start to kick off at level 7, once auras start to come into play in their subclasses

I’d argue that early levels of any class are going to feel the same until you get more of your subclass abilities at later levels.

@@pointyhatstudios I gotta say, as someone for whom most f my play experience was in D&D3.5, seeing Darth Vader as a paladin really threw me.

@@Lobsterwithinternet A good amount of classes are pretty unique from the get go, I suppose it’s because it’s a hybrid class but unlike others the first 3 levels of Paladin just feel like a worse fighter.

The Knights radiant are pretty much just Paladins. Now we have to think of a memorable name for our paladin. Oh! I know…. (Reads note). Kaladin.

"I swear I will stay true to try and fix my mental health issues" yea sounds good, if only

​@@anonymousname5860 Tsk, you could at least TRY to have some originality. Like Shallan, that's an original name!

Knight Radiants are the perfect example of the variaty of paladins. Kaladin and the WindRunners are the classic oath of devotion, but shallan is a total diferent thing , she is lake oath of the ancient.

Oath of Redemption Pallies are my favorite to play as. They really work well with protecting allies and punishing enemies for choosing not to target the tank (aka, you).

This sounds like a good oath for building a good christian paladin. The road to being a peacemaker. It looks like flavoring them with the Bible and Jesus’ be-attitudes is almost what it made for. I want to mess around with devotion to agape love as an idea to. “Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.” ‭‭(I Corinthians‬ ‭13‬:‭4‬-‭7‬ ‭NKJV‬‬) The Idea of a tank that wants to help and cares about others selflessly is what I want paladins to be. Not self righteous but loving unconditionally.

They were always awesome. Just most people never knew how to play them till it was watered down for them in 5e.

Where as in older editions it maxed out at 20th level and didn't require thrnuse of dice or spell slots. Ahh good times those were.