This video is clearly made with an agenda - Some very misleading information about the Irish provinces here in order to make the English clubs look like they're at a disadvantage. Key info deliberately left out for the same purpose and many strange figures based on heresay. Arguments that tend to go nowhere. Impractical proposals like a URC salary cap across different economies where the sport is set up differently in each nation. Even though the video is entitled 'The Problem with Salary Caps' the channel seems to be in favour of it (judging by the language that is used) for the URC. Saying the New Zealand salary cap is 'misleading' because the benefits that some of their top players get isn't part of their salary doesn't make it 'misleading'. Lads, we've been sick of telling you for years now - if your system isn't working change it. We can't do it for you no matter how much you play the victim or try to force it through World Rugby. Even with England's salary cap no Irish player comes near to the salaries of your players - Incredible that this isn't even brought up. 90-95%+ of the provinces are made up of local players that have come through our academies and a small number that have switched provinces with the few remaining being foreign players that have possibly the strictest regulations of any rugby association in regards foreign imports. Regulations are in place to keep this dynamic going as it benefits our international team as well as benefiting our local young players' improvement who play frequent high-level rugby. Our Player Welfare and Central Contract systems serve the same purpose. Everything in conducted to prioritise our international team. It's not perfect by any means as provinces are limited in different areas but that's the choice we made. You lads went with the irreversible private business model for each club. Tthis was always going to end up in your rugby association having less and less say in your domestic league bit by bit with more and more money being thrown at it every year. So you need regulations like salary caps to keep it somewhat competitive which ironically has a knock on effect on more domestic players coming through and keeping your international team competitive. Contrastingly, with your salary cap decreasing but not your player salaries, and due to your clubs decision to live beyond their means, it reduces the size of your squads considerably which leads to your international players getting burned out. That's the choice you chaps made. Just look at Sarries - £5 mill cap with Farrell on c.£750k and Itoje on £825k(two figures that no Irish rugby player comes remotely close to). It's clear that your clubs pay no heed to the cap even after said club's punishment. Yet this video asks no questions and takes it as gospel. Moaning about how different countries set their own game up to benefit themselves is not going to change anything.
I’m not sure why you think that the content is part of some agenda to highlight the disparity in the Irish clubs and the English ? The fact is there when you compare Leinsters players budget with a premiership side there undoubtedly is a large disparity. Personally I don’t have a problem with that, Leinster are a fantastic club and since they are not bound by a salary cap in Ireland any criticism against them is unfair. But then why not admit to it rather than suggesting that the mere mention of it is a slight . Leinster players budget in 2024 was approx €8.5 million in player salaries and a further £4.5 in central contracts . That’s £13million . That does not include the salaries of foreign players who are paid for by ‘sugerdaddies’ A Premiership club like Saracens or Northampton had a £5 million cap and earned credits up to £2 million making a total of about £7 million . This excludes the salary of 1 marquee player For reference the T14 club Salary cap is set at €10 million with players brought through their own academy. There may well be other credits a club may earn through the FRU. For Toulouse this would be approximately €12 million. The point is ultimately it doesn’t matter, rugby especially in European competitions has never been a level playing field and that’s ok so I think it’s a mistake to try and make direct comparisons with a centrally contracted player system in Ireland and a Premiership salary cap The financing of clubs in the different countries are totally different . I don’t think Leinster owes its success just to its players budget, it’s a fantastic club and feeder system they have developed but to refuse to acknowledge that the clubs player spend is equal or more than the T14 side is just dishonest
Leinster overwhelmingly producing their own players (who then become good enough for Ireland national team selection), is far different from the English and French clubs predominantly buying in foreign players, or at least buying in native players from other clubs.
@@goldenchild19 I said “overwhelming” producing their own players, not exclusively. 95% homegrown. You’d be lucky to find 7 or 8 first XV players who came through the academy of the Premiership or Top 14 club they play for.
Yes, but the issue is being able to hold onto players, SA teams produce their own players mostly (some move between unions) but cannot hold onto talent due (partly) to the salary cap. Leinster does not have the same problem
Money rich English moaning about the Cap. Didn't sport England give each club a suitcase full of money to get them through COVID. Where as the Welsh teams were offered a loan, which none took out, since they wouldn't be able to pay it back. Didn't mention that on the video though.
International rugby pays for domestic teams, so the IRFU pays for Leinster, Munster, Ulster and Connacht. This benefits the national team. New Zealand have a similar system. It works!
Exactly - they look at the National team as being the end goal, not club glory - this is why England constantly fail - too many overseas players, diluting the home grown talent - the clubs take precedence over the national team,
I’m probably biased but Leinster argument is completely irrelevant. Playing arguably what’s close to their strongest XV today and twelve of them have come through their own academy system (19/23 if you’re looking at the whole squad). Can’t give out to them for being better at developing players than other clubs 🤷🏼♂️
That is actually one of the big criticisms of the English cap. For example… saracens, Leicester and Quinn’s could fairly easily pay more than the cap and They are also the clubs that have produced the best talent in house but it comes to a point where they have to let players go. E.g. ( although he didn’t come through tigers academy) Leicester could have easily paid Ellis genge £500-700k from a financial standpoint but under the cap with the increased value of their squad post league win especially the large number of Leicester academy players coming through means there isn’t space for him. But the harsh reality is that beyond 5 or 6 clubs the rest of the league can’t justify paying up to the cap so the clubs that still can end up dominating the league as they’ve still got about a £1m advantage… a restructuring of the league is pretty important and changes in the way the cap works are two essential needs over the next 12 months
@@colstoun4762 In fairness I'm pretty sure Genge signed for Bristol way before they won the title, he wanted to move home to be closer to family I believe
This is misleading to say the least. Glasgow may not be as good at developing young players, but it is fair to say they have developed a fair few. However, unlike Leinster they at some point lose their best players on a regular basis. It is also fair to say that is not true of Leinster.
@@colstoun4762 Genge wanted to leave Tigers not because of money but because he was coincidentally going back to the club whos academy he actually went through. He just wanted to be closer to Knowle West.
It never fails to amaze me how the Rugby Pod seems to deliberately muddy the water regarding Leinster no matter how often they are told. Leinster do not receive more money they do however develop more homegrown players who then go on to become Ireland starters and receive central contracts. It is not the same not matter how any times you repeat it. Do you count the money England pay their players under Saracens salary figure?
Can Leinster just sue them and get it over with at some point these jokers have to stop talking about salary caps and maybe move to rugby funny they never cared about Salary caps or what Irish teams spend in the first half of professionalism when they had more.
@@IverKnackerov Dose it matter Leinster have no interest in their players anyway so there hardly going to be in direct competition with them. This is effectively sour grapes because unlike the first 20 years of professionalism they can't out bid Scottish Welsh and Italian sides for their own players that's literally it.
@@aidanbrophy86 Yeah I wonder in their next installment of whatever the fuck this is will they go over cost of living in Dublin vs England and how most Premiership clubs signed bigger names than Leinster this year in between trying to sell me stuff to shave my balls of course.
Leinsters job is to produce Irish players same for Munster Ulster and Connacht who didn't seem to get the same heat for some odd reason. Their role is much bigger then just battering teams that can't produce players as good they need to provide Ireland international standard players at a minimum same for the other 3 teams otherwise there's no point to them.
@@goldenchild19 not all players were born in Ireland. But of course you know this. The IRFU will scout abroad for players for a particular position. This isn't new and isn't going to change. The vast majority of players are Irish born, or eligible to play for Ireland through a parent. Such as Mack Hansen.
@@goldenchild19 I know right Imagine Leinster having 2 or 3 players not from Leinster unlike the teams these whingers promote who are pissed off because they have to play more then 2 or 3 English players because they can no longer raid half the talent of the rugby world.
Salary caps are set within each country for the benefit of their domestic and international teams as a whole. It’s not a matter of fairness and each nation is free to arrange their affairs to their best overall advantage. It doesn’t matter what other countries are doing, they can lift the cap and have teams compete at the very highest level, but risk other teams becoming insolvent and reduce the player pool for the national team. Centralised planning a la ire and nz seems to help.
It’s a good article, but you make the Irish look way over funded compare to the other home nations by swapping between euros and pounds, try and keep to one currency to give a clearer picture.
Then it wouldn't have the intended effect of making the English clubs look like they're at a disadvantage. This is pure propaganda. Treating their subscribers like they're mor0ns.
The URC have no salary cap, yet the top teams spending (you mentioned leinster) is still less than the Prem's salary cap.. You just made it sound like Leinster are at a huge advantage, when their salary budget is still less than alot of teams in the prem and definitely france
South African teams have £3 million per team. The Sharks however has found a way around this as their team are loaded with some of the biggest names in SA rugby and there is no way they can pay them with a cap of £3 million.
Sharks are backed by RocNation and they offer different types of incentives that are still within the laws of the cap but that do allow them to attract some international stars back into the fold. SA has one of the biggest player drains worldwide, mainly due to the economy, so they have no choice but to find other ways to attract the homegrown talent back home.
@@brettfleiner4906 Thts is just plain stupid from SA rugby. Why put such a low cap in place if we lose players and our cap is much lower than any other union in the world. As for the Sharks, it doesn't matter what they are doing, it is very odd that the other unions can't or don't want to do the same if it is all legal and within the law. Especially the Bulls with Motsepe and Rupert as their man financial backers should be able to do the same. It just seems very strange.
@@Clutchtheclownz What do you offer a player that makes 20 million a year that is worth more? Many clubs have tried giving incentives off the pitch like this video showed but it is not in the spirit of the cap. As for incentives, do your really think it is something only the Sharks do? Go search Richmond and see how many old rugby players work for them. Rupert does his bit to help old players.
@@Clutchtheclownz One more thing, there is a player I won't name now but his dad told me with his current contract he will retire with R 200 million when he is 35. That will just be what he is saving at the moment, it doesn't include what he is spending on his family.
Where does the money in the other Unions outside of Ireland go? The IRFU runs the teams using the money that comes in from international TV rights and prize money. They also run grassroots and club rugby with this money... And they also manage to break even or turn a profit (before COVID). Wales and Scotland receive the same TV money, and Scotland only have to run two URC teams and somehow can't spend the same money. The RU doesn't even have to run any club teams. Where is the money going?
The idea that the salary cap is not being inforced in France is disingenuous. You base that assertion on Boudgellal and his big mouth, who's somewhat known for being a man with a taste for sensationalist titles. Altrad breaking the salary cap was quite the headline at the time. No doubt the cap is being more strictly implemented in the UK, but it's far from being a joke in France.
In Australia Rugby League have a Salary Cup. It use to work really well, in 2005 we had the closest comp of all time. 15th place finished on 18 point we're first place only had 34 points. Unfortunately today due to youth development the top and bottom have begun to drift apart. The salary cap definitely works
Bit confused with the point of this video Leinster have an advantage because they don't have a salary cap but to win in France or England you can have to break the cap? English rugby is a financial diaster and always has been all the money is concentrated at the top and nothing goes into grassroots and oddly enough you don't develop players funny how that works. Leinsters strength is their academy structure which they need because they are only allowed 3 non Ireland qualified players on the pitch at any one time so it means all the Irish teams have to be very careful with how they recruit which is why players like Billy Burns for Ulster and Mack Hansen for Connacht were signed because their Irish qualified. The difference between Scotland and Wales is how they've managed their resources. Scotland has done a good job and.is in the up Wales hasn't and as this generation of players age I don't see players of a similar quality coming up to replace them. While this has probably turned into a rant. Successful teams in any sport have academy structures to develop talent. The teams listed as been against salary caps, sale sharks have the smallest squad in the premiership and no academy. their squad is mostly foreign born. Dragons have no continuity new.caoches every season or 2 squad is changing constantly and their ground is permanently empty
So hold on. The numbers quoted mean that Irish clubs have the lowest squad salaries (less than wales, Scotland, England and France), or did you not think about how exchange rates work?? Also, the Irish players are centrally contracted so that number includes international salary for many players (Although the tanking of the pound probably has changed that a bit in the past few weeks…)
Your comments about Leinster are so misinformed. They are not favoured financially by the IRFU. If you look at each club's money produced for the IRFU, and the money they get back. Leinster contribute a higher proportion than they get back relative to the other provinces. Irish players tend to play for their home province when they can and have been brought through their provinces' academies. Why would the IRFU introduce a cap and force more players to leave home.
As a fan of F1, rugby, and "soccer", who grew up watching the NFL in the US. I do think having responsible ownership, and a long last product is ideal for the sport. That said, anybody rich enough to own a sports team, may not feel the same way. The NFL gets away with rich owners still running the show, even though there is a salary cap year on year. There's this concept of "cash over cap" and putting players on long deals that they'll never see the end of, to get a team to win **right now** (I linked the explanation below). Most exemplified by the L.A. Rams. MLS, US's top tier football (soccer) league, has a salary cap + 2 marquee player rule, and the league has grown over the years, but if you're a good teenager, you're still going to go find a squad in Europe to play for. That said, there are more resources/better coaching, and the level of play has grown over the last decade significantly in the U.S. compared to the early 2000s. You mentioned F1, who recently implemented a team total cost spend. Personally, I think that may best solution, in conjunction with truly explaining to owners what could happen if they don't comply. The top 3 teams, were spending something like 5x what the bottom teams were. At one point in time, teams like Caterham, Spyker, Marussia and so on, were joining the F1 ranks, and less than 3 years later were bankrupt. Overall, the product of F1 as a whole has been better for the past 5 years. Teams have a say in new teams coming in, there are strict rules for new team entry, and the governing body is more responsible than ever regarding the longevity and future of the sport. Nobody wants what happens in the EFL, where a team invests heavily for 1 year "make or break" and ends up folding like Bury, or in financial trouble like so many teams in the EFL pyramid (Derby, etc). Cash over cap: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Gqb1bTSIfHs.html
The video misunderstands the NZ system by applying incorrect Northern Hemisphere assumptions to it. Namely, that a league runs for a season: which it doesn't in the South. In ANZ Super Rugby is roughly the first half of the playing year and THAT is capped at 195K. Then players filter off into different clubs and competitions with different remuneration systems, obviously with the All Black players going into more lucrative ones. Therefore SR income is not "misleading" in terms of overall salary, it's just the commentator has applied his assumption that the senior club competition income and the annual salary are more or less the same thing, which they are in his part of the world but never were in NZ.
Pretty disingenuous about the irish Provinces. The money from the IRFU goes to grass roots, AIL and all areas of rugby including the 7s. The thing that the Irish provinces can not do is import players as they see fit. I suspect the author of this knows very well all of the above but chose to put a poor old Prem teams losing because they 'aint got no money mate' spin on it.
I suppose you’re also going to claim the Irish tax break system where players get 10 highest years of tax repaid when they retire, is also made up and plays no part in players salary considerations …..???
@@IverKnackerov Whats your point about my comment? I didnt mention that, nor the 20 odd K English players get per England match. My comment is to highlight that the person who wrote this piece is full of shit and they know it.
@@IverKnackerov If we arent pulling punches, the English clubs detest losing to Irish teams and are extreemly bitter and jealous of their successes over the years.
I think another consideration when talking about salary caps is they didn't want ticket prices to be so high that it would be out of reach for many supporters.
@@danedwadd62 What's true? That salary caps have an effect? Sure yeah. But the video doesn't mention why the caps were imposed in the first place. Not at all the IRFU's problem that Premiership clubs can't manage their finances. Getting the Dragons to be the voice of dissent within the URC as some sort of gotcha is extra funny considering the WRU've run themselves into the ground (although it's very sad to see this).
There's also the big point totally missed here about how Irish teams, and Leinster in particular because they have the biggest contingent in the Irish squad at the moment, have minute caps on the amount of time players are allowed to play for the province. So if they're established Irish International players, they are only allowed to play a certain amount of minutes for the club per season. So obviously the provincial sides keep those minutes for the big games. And the point about negotiations just isn't true. The amount of money that clubs from France and England offer to the likes of Furlong or Henshaw when their contracts are up for renewal is astronomical and while the IRFU do have certain tools they can use to keep players here (e.g. the tax incentives for players if they stay here for 10 seasons) they do not have the kind of financial clout to outbid French clubs in particular. You also mention the budget of €6.6m budget each province gets and compare that to the sterling amount for Wales and Scotland. STG5m is about €5.8m. So the difference you highlight is misleading in the extreme.
It is not the clubs having the salary cap that are the problem, it is the ones NOT having/enforcing it that are. You highlighted multiple instances where the lack of cost cap (or to much of a difference in cost caps) makes the sport more boring. A cost cap works, if there is noone externally exploiting it. It is not SA shooting itself in the foot, it is France shooting SA in the foot. Also a league without a (real) cost cap is long term less exiting, because you just have one team pretty much dominating and one or two other teams capable of competing, whith everyone else in the back. Is that so much better than "loosing all the talent"?
So England with 11, hang on just googled it, 13 professional teams, ran by millionaire sugar daddy's, in its domestic league the premiership. Is at a disadvantage with Ireland which has no professional domestic league and only four provincial teams ran by the national union?? The highest paid Irish player is johnny Sexton at 700,000, that's way off what he was getting in racing. Probably a good million and a bit off what marque players in France and England get.
😂😂😂 what on earth did you Google? In 2023/24 salary cap for the premiership was £5 million . I'm not sure how Leinster would be disadvantaged by their significantly higher salary budget in 2022 was €14 million which comparable to a pro14 team. Th8s foes mot include the salaries of foreign players for which are paid by private doners or their own ' super daddies ' Since Irish clubs do not have a salary cap what their player budget compared to the Premiership sides is irrelevant. As this point I shpuld say that i happen to like the Irish system and do admire what Leinster are as a club and how it has developed. I think the Irish funding system is slso the best especially when they can incorporate valuable tax advantages fo playets to remain in Ireland . I just find it surprising that you think that the premiership sides are somehow at an advantage ovet the Irish dides with smaller playets budget as well as squads 😂
Good summary, the only thing I have a minor beef with is you glossed over Sarries a bit. That squad was loaded with world class players and even what came out does not fully explain how they kept them all. I honestly believe the Prem and English Rugby wanted that pandora's box left alone. Thus the doling out of what seemed a "harsh" punishment. It really wasn't. Saracens given they'd broken cap before should've had a ton of bricks dropped on them. To include loss of titles.
I'd argue that it's not the salary cap that's the problem but overall just the differences in pools of talent between countries and the amount of money they are able to generate
Aren’t Wasps and Worcester both about to go into administration? And this with a salary cap. Almost all of Leinsters players are products of their academy. Should those players not be playing for Leinster? Would seem strange if they weren’t. Ireland also does not have many more players than Scotland or Wales.
English RFU should buy/takeover all the clubs and operate like the Irish model. They should start with wasps and worcester as the English game has proven to be unsustainable.
salary caps are stupid. to ensure financial stability expenditure in salaries should be limited to a % of the revenues of the club in the past seasons. if you do well with hospitality, or offer a product that spectators want to buy then you should be allowed to spend more money to keep improving and maybe someone will copy you and trigger a virtuous cycle.
In fairness leinster don’t really use their internationals in the urc. Welsh and Scottish teams can put out more recognised international players and still be hammered by leinsters academy team, also the South Africans are currently resigning a huge amount of their internationals and have the largest player pool in the world I believe while Ireland have to create depth, it won’t come naturally. Two different systems but I’d say the Two nations are equally matched
French clubs as well have a lot of academy talents, and they have a system (jiff) that forces them to play with a minimum of 16 players formed in France each match.
@@jackoflanagan I could tell you that Stade Toulousain has a great academy, as well as Clermont. The main difference lies in the fact that there is 14 clubs in french 1st division, and only 4 irish, so talents tend to stay much more in th same club in Ireland.
@@jackoflanagan The main goal of my 1st answer was not to compete on who has the best academy, it was to tell you that no, french clubs do not buy almost all their talents.
I cannot think of another job whereby the company determines a cap on the teams salary outside of actual money coming in. If I am google and need an accountant, the idea that I would set an arbitrary amount on the cost of that accountant aside from how much I have to spend is ludicrous and is shooting myself in the foot. However, after trying to watch F1 some years and eventually not caring as it was in no way a good contest really highlights the problem. Fans want a contest. What I propose would be a fix, that would ultimately be, admittedly, very hard to maintain but could work. Why not remove salary caps across the board, but have a system that we see in many online fantasy leagues whereby players are attributed a score based on performance and each team, each game, can only field a team with a total score below a certain number. If 10 is the highest score say you can field 5 x 10 score players, 5x7 scores and 5x 5 or under. This puts both teams on a an even setting, with a good amount position specific mismatches to make it interesting depending on where you have chosen to have your high ranked players. You can also be a billionaire and pay whatever you want for your players, but you must have low ranked players and hence coaches, selectors will pick low ranked players that they think have potential and try to improve them. As the next time a player is ranked, is the start of the new season. So paying for 5 outta 10 player and getting him good as soon as possible for that season benefits you. If he plays well, great, but next season he will be ranked higher and can command more pay, be traded, or retained depending on his coaches preference.
it gets specifically interesting when a team wins based off of their low ranked players playing so well. Causing them to command a higher rank next season. Meaning you must then choose to retain them, with their new rank and release who? your higher ranked players? it becomes a game of chess. It provides in team competition. It promotes improvement of players and it highlights finding quality diamond in the rough players. It allows for unlimited spending also whilst retaining an on filed general balance between the two squads and it is somewhat self limiting as you cant just go out and buy 15 high ranked players as you cant field them. Fans would start screaming out "buy x player from such and such as hes only a rank 5 and i swear hes better" so it encourages local level fans to really invest in higher up leagues as they want their local lads playing and getting a chance.
@@speak_your_truth. jeez this is like talking to a child. IN NO OTHER WALK OF LIFE DO WE SET CAPS. NOT IN BUSINESS ANYWHERE SO WHY ON EARTH WOULD WE DO IT IN SPORTS. IF YOU WANT TO PROMOTE FAIRNESS ON THE FIELD, SIMPLY MAKE RULES THAT MAKE AN IMPACT ON THE FIELD. LIKE IN STOCK CAR RACING. YOU ALL FIELD BY AND LARGE THE SAME VEHICLE. SO SIMPLY DONT PUT IN SALARY CAPS BUT PUT IN ON FIELD RULES THAT MEAN THE TEAMS THAT ARE FIELDED ARE EFFECTIVELY EVEN.
@@boru1982 I'm not 100% certain of the details, but I think when you retire from the sport you can claim 40% of the tax you paid over 10 years as a rebate. But that only counts for income earned in Ireland. So if they play abroad they are giving up that tax rebate (which will likely to be worth €100,000s).
@@mjribes They got rid of that years ago as it's now an EU policy so the player still gets the rebate when they retire if they left a province for a France club. Anyway all countries(incl. your own) have tax incentives for pro athletes to stay put.
@@mjribes From revenue website: "At the time of retirement, you must be resident in one of the following locations: Ireland a European Union (EU) state a European Economic Area (EEA) state a European Free Trade Association (EFTA) state."
Literally SA will dominate Europe if they didn't have a salary cap, the owners of sharks and especially the bulls are amongst the richest people in the world
