Glad to see you include a budget Mooer pedal here. When I got back into pedals again after a foray into rack gear then multi-fx I bought a bunch of Mooer pedals because they were so cheap, especially on eBay. Admittedly I’ve switched out a few for the ‘real thing’ now (the green mile is not a great tune screamer) but several remain happily on my board - orange 90, trelicopter, ensemble king, pure boost, e-lady and black secret. They all do the job I want them to do very well and for a fraction of the cost of more respected pedals, plus they take up comparatively little real estate on the board.
There’s usually a moment on That Pedal Show where I flash back to teenage year of trying guitars, amps, pedals and just having fun for the sake of fun. Good times.
Re: the Rat having Big Muff characteristics- I totally agree. I love the tone of a Big Muff, but it just does not work for me. A Rat, however, seems to do exactly what I want the Muff to do, but with more mids... so I guess I’m really a Rat person, haha!
Hey Mark - I was Never a Muff/Fuzz guy until The Thorpy Fallout Cloud. Give it a go??? - It's like a Hi-Fi Big Muff (that cuts through the mix) You might like it? I will Never be without mine. Gilmour, Santana, Iommi = Done.
@@michael_caz_nyc Thanks for the suggestion! If I ever get back to wanting a Muff (other than the one I have), I will definitely look at it. I've heard nothing but good things about it.
drummers and bassists gravitate towards them when they play guitar for some reason. i can not say why, i can just say ive seen it happen enough to see a pattern that rarely fails
I never had access to a Rat when I started out, so instead I tried many different overdrives and distortion pedals; Korg Overdrive (can't remember the model), Boss Turbo Overdrive, Washburn Thrash Metal, Boss DS-1, Boss Metalizer etc. At the moment I have 2 drives on my board, both Boss: SD-1 and DS-1. Followed by a MXR Phase 90 and a cheap 10-band equalizer
AND AS I KNOW HAVE AND ALWAYS USE I ALSO HAVE THE VERY BEST MOST USEFUL PEDAL ON MY BOARD ANY BOARD ALL BOARDS SHOULD HAVE AND I RECAMEND GETTING AN MXR 10 BAND OR THE I BELIEVE MINE IS THE CALINE COPY OF THAT WITH INPUT GAIN AND OUTPUT VOLUME. I CANNOT PLAY EVER AGAIN WITHOUT ONE. I HIGHLY HIGHLY RECAMEND IT TO EVERYONE IN PEDAL LAND AND THOES WHO REIE JUST ON AMP WITH CHANNELS PLEASE GET N USE A 10BAND EQ YOULL NEVER LOOK BACK AGAIN. signed the GUITAR WIZARD
I bought a Rat 2 in 1989 brand new. It's been my main distortion for almost every situation. It just has an excellent voice that retains the tone of the note no matter how much gain you pile on. And I think it cleans up nicely when you back off the guitar volume. Scofield has used a Rat as his main grit effect since the 80s. I found with the drive on about 9 o'clock, and the volume on about 3'o'clock, you get as much distortion as you would probably want with guitar volume on 10, but it cleans up nicely almost completely clean with volume on below 5. And on those settings, it still provides just a little compression, and evens out some of the partials. I've tried a lot of boxes, but I keep coming back to the RAT, have been able to make it work for anything. That super- bright, overly distorted signature sound is not the only thing it can do.
This is my favorite episode, I love rat pedals, I have a Proco Turbo rat and it is amazing. By the way, the option in the mooer, "vintage" is a Rat2 and "turbo" is a Turbo Rat Rat2 is Silicon clipping diodes, Turbo is LED clipping diodes.
In 30 years of playing I had never tried a Rat pedal of any kind. Last year stumbled upon on a used TurboRat. Tried it and it hasn't left my main board since! Hooked!
I have a RAT clone that I barely ever play. Can't get along with the sound. Then I see something like this and want to give it another go. Then when I do I remember why it never gets played.
You’ll probably find that the Rat 2 you have has symmetrical clipping and *not* asymmetrical clipping, unless it has been modified of course. Additionally, if it is a fairly modern (>2000AD) stock Rat 2, it will probably be fitted with the quieter (in terms of noise voltage) OP07 op amp rather than the LM308. Great video guys!
5 лет назад
Been play guitar for 40 years. Gibson, Martin, Guild, Taylor...got my first 2 electric's las year. 2018 Gibson Les Paul & SG. Marshall, Blackstar & Fender tube amps. My first pedal I'm gonna try here at my Hollywood pedal shop will be the Rat! What a sound!! Thanks guys for another great show!!!!!
There's an interesting story behind the "Filter" knob. The original RAT - which was a big box, not the small box whiteface - had a proper tone control. But in order to cut costs, it was switched to the filter control not long after introduction so that the reverse-audio taper tone pot could be replaced with a normal audio taper pot. This allowed the same pot - 100K audio - to be used for all three controls which simplified production and lowered the cost on pots.
@@all_mesa_man922 Depends what you use it for. IMO it's best with solos and can sound really smooth, but it can really cut out a lot of the low end and thin the tone for more rhythm playing. A lot of guys will also just use them more as boost pedals (volume maxed, gain all the way down) with Rectifiers to help tighten up the sound. Cutting the lows with an amp that boomy still sounds good.
@@BlueBarrier782 Thats all I ever use mine for, TS boosting a marshall into high gain, use it constantly for that and love it, but I never really understood the hype for them as an overdrive, I'm not an overdrive pedal guy anyway though, much prefer a boosted sound.
This was awesome. The Walrus Audio Iron Horse was great, the JAM Pedals Rattler was even better, but the in-production RAT 2 sounded great, held its own like the reigning champ that it is. Would've been interesting to see the 1981 DRV and the Caroline Guitar Co. Wave Cannon Mk II in there, but they're not "just" RAT clones. The Big Ear NYC Woodcutter, Frost Giant Electronics The Mountain, and the Abominable Electronics Don't Shred On Me would've been nice additions to the video, as well.
I agree with Dan. I own a Rat clone and I LOVE the sound, but when I put it in a band context, for me, it is too loose and sloppy. So in my live rig I have a tighter distortion sound. But in the 3 or 4 pedal home rig, it is the Rat. Loved this episode. Thanks guys!
I've had this 1989 Rat 2 since 1990. Got it second hand, it and a Crybaby wah. Ten years ago a friend took it to the US for Robert Keeley's three-way mod. Love it even more. The Rat is distortion with a fuzzy edge. Good for Gilmour, Nuno and Lynch, good for me.
That was the best episode of That Pedal Show ever. Why? Because it had Rats. The only way to make an episode as good is to do another show with Rats. Maybe a part 2 with You Dirty Rat, Turbo Rat, Solo Rat, Fat Rat, Brat, Deucetone etc.
ive had the turbo rat since 1990...every time i hear the ordinary rat i'm amazed how crappy it is compared to my turbo rat and i understand why people hate rats because if the basic one is bad no one tries the turbo rat
@@cesmcmyth I play the dual. I'd love to have the danish on my board but I don't think I can justify that amount of space for 1 drive pedal at the moment. Especially when I can have 2 of what is essentially the same circuit in that space.
Listened to Blue through the Rattler again and its the best I have ever heard that guitar sound on a lead tone... just stellar!!! Just throaty, punchy sweetness!!!
With Mick saying he wants to try the Rat type pedal on his board knowing his amps sound different from the ones used here raises the question; can we see a vlog or pick n mix type vid with Dan playing Mick's board vs Mick playing Dan's board? Would be cool to see how you play using the other bloke's sound
The JAM Ratter+ is one of my favourite dirt pedals...it has a toggle switch to enter a low-gain mode. Such a great, grainy, dynamic OD. Gives something like the Hudson Broadcast a good run for its money!
Just wanted to say thankyou so much for last night guys! Was a genuinely inspiring experience, and massive kudos to both of you for making time to speak to us mere mortals afterwards (my offer of taking the Space Echo off Dan’s hands is still on the table for the record) - the only downer of the night was that my girlfriend now fancies Mick - Damn him and his lovely thick black hair! All the best guys, I think it may end up being the most expensive gig I’ve ever been to... added to the fact I now want a RAT 😂
I've been playing for over 35 years and I've never had a rat, for some reason they just weren't available in music stores around here it was all boss and mxr stuff. Anyway I finally decided to try right after seeing a lot of videos on them lately, I had this thing for about two days and it sounded like total garbage. I immediately sent it back. To be honest I believe I had a defective unit ,it just sounded terrible ,fizzy and buzzy, I tried using it several different ways and it was just really bad. One very noticeable effect of this thing and something is not desirable in any kind of a distortion or overdrive pedal, was the fact that I would hit a note and hold it and it would sustain for about 2 seconds and then just choke out and totally die.
Weird! Yeah that doesn’t sound right at all! Mind you, that filter control can be brutal and different amps play a huge part. All that said, every when ‘perfect’ it still isn’t for everyone. Cheers!
Well I just really splurged on one 50 bucks used on reverb so I should be able to find one of my amps that I like it with and if not I'm not going to go hungry
6:05 - that face! I use to own a Marshall Lead 12 combo, and had to set it the same way. ANY amount of treble became piercing and unusable. And the bass knob did absolutely nothing. The Rat is extremely thick sounding, and hits much more of that middle ground between distortion and fuzz. Listen to SunnO))) albums for a great example of Rat pedals being used into old Sunn Model-T amps. Ridiculously thick and warm sounding.
Really appreciate this guys , I only got my first rat last year and couldn't believe I had only just got one in all my 12 years of playing guitar , for me it's the sound of my guitar youth growing up, blur, extreme, foo fighters, quick tangent- me and my friend were discussing rats and then when we had band practise last Sunday , we both turned up with Rats on our boards , needless to say we both had a great time, also Rats in a band mix sound great, so don't be put of with the "home tones " , catalinbread katzenkonig for part 2 please
Kazoo solos 😀 spot on Mick. I always reach for one for the solo on Del Shannon's Runaway. Don't think I've ever got to the end without breaking down in fits of laughter.
Baby G in a really clean or barely breaking up amp I agree, but if the amp is already properly distorting or if you're stacking it before another distortion pedal then the Tubescreamer's drive adds a nice crispiness without being fizzy. The gainier the gain stage it boost, the more gain I add to the TS to add more bite
Opinions are free... The best pedal to make an Amp breaks is still a screamer or a clone, depending on which colour you prefer 30, 40 years or even more they came... Always you know what break up point is... Not for jazzy|cristal clear lovers.
Same as a Zendrive to me and so many other similar circuits. If they're not running into an overdriven amp or another OD pedal they sound quite crappy.
@@ozono3videos Opinions? I've tried almost every amp and pedal of any renown since the 70's and I hate a tubescrewer for anything other than a door stop...or throwing at a sound man that says 'turn it down'.
@@TheDogPa I agree. I've never seen a tube screamer that improved sound in a way that something else wouldn't do much better. I'd rather have a clean boost in that role or a klon type thing. Tubescreamers are brown. It's like looking at everything though dark glasses, but that's just like, my opinion, man. I also think rats and DS-1s suck. So there's that.
Thumbs up for comparing several RAT pedals iterations and modern takes on said circuit. Stacking the TS pedal with the Rat yield a great modern tone. Keep doing that, showing pedal combinations and maybe on the future we can have an all dirt episode of pedal stacking ods and fuzzes. Dirt and more gain please.
War Horse, Rattler, or Black Secret...man! Those three are so good! Too bad I just bought a Pigtronix Polysaturator...except NOT too bad! The Polysaturator is RIDICULOUS!!
Lm308 is pre 2002-03 after that it's an op07 but they sound basically identical, the difference could be tolerances or the change in diodes that happened when it became the rat2
Shame they don't make the VFE Alpha Dog any more. Possibly the tweakiest Rat pedal out there, allows you to blend in and out different soft and hard clipping and control the low end as well. It's my primary dirt box, stacked with a TS type it's great.
@That Pedal Show I’ve jumped on this episode after getting really into the (currently popular in the scene) hardcore bands Drug Church and Militarie Gun, both of which share a lead guitarist Nick Cogan. The core of his tone is a Jazzmaster into a TS into a RAT all going into a JC-120. I’ll be gosh darned, it sounds better than the other guitarist going through a Les Paul and a Marshall. Check out “Weed Pin” “Ain’t No Flowers” and “Grubby” for glorious TS>RAT tones.
Been using a RAT on my board forever. Earlier with a Keeley BD-2 in front but the last couple years with a JRocket Archer pushing it. Sounds great. Cool episode guys!
I’ve got a super rat clone I built from BYOC. It’s called the Fireswamp ROUS. I don’t think they make it anymore. It’s a classic rat circuit with a 6 way clipping Rotary for every type of soft n hard clipping configuration. It definitely blew me away the first time I heard how much tonal effect on the circuit, the different diodes, LEDs, mosfet had.. another great show guys. When are you guys gonna build that fuzz face kit Tripp’s left you guys. Only 8-10 components in that thing. I think we are about do for another all fuzz episode
I got a cheap Rat 2 last year. I use it whenever i need a different kind of fuzzy tone to my Fat Fuzz Factory or a more fuzzy overdrive than my OCD. So it kinda does double-duty which is why I love it. :D
Currently testing Rattler but I miss the magic mids old big box Rat had... cut through the mix like the knife. Rattler doesn't have that tight sharpness in the low end, maybe too much bass, but I will give him a try.
Very interesting show. I'd always considered the RAT to be a sort of glorified fuzz pedal. But after years of chasing a smooth overdrive sound, I find myself interested on occasion in a more forward, grindy rock sound. The closest to which I have now is an old Banzai Fireball. Listening to folks like Joey Landreth and the way they use fuzzes gives a brighter sound that sits more in front of the mix. These give that brighter clipped sound without the sustain degenerating into that garbled sound you get with a fuzz. Especially the Rattler and Iron Horse which sound good even as the gain or note tail goes down.
I am 90% sure REM used rats on Monster ... or maybe that was a civil war muff ... and I know that sonic youth has used/uses rats extensively I love how you can hear in the video where the differences between certain muff versions and the RAT become hard to separate. Very very cool pedals/video
Ah, my first pedal was a Turbo Rat, bought because I saw a shot of Bernard Butlers pedal board. Stayed with me on every board I’ve built, slightly modded these days. The Ruez mod is worth a look with a pot rather than just a resistor clip.
@ThatPedalShow Mick and Dan, Is Dan's Big Box Rat an original, first run big box (late 70's into early 80's) or a reissue (early 90's into early 2000's)?
Dan, you can silent the watch if you like. Just swipe up on the watch and hit the bell icon, it will still vibrate for notifications. Especially moments when your heart rate is up but it knows you are sitting still and takes that as you being stressed, so it tells you to breath.
Really liked the Mooer - the value and size are an added bonus! They still make my favorite flanger (E-Lady). Does the op-amp circuit eliminate the impedance-related problems that can be encountered with a germanium fuzz?
Got the kinnatone mod. Added Pre-gain dial and switch to asymmetrical gain are ridiculously awesome. Forgot to have it swapped to 18v, but thus is life.
I used to have a Big Muff I bought in the 70's. I sold it to my cousin after I got my Rat. I wish I had kept it now though... I did build a clone so I still have something that gives me that sound.
I'm pretty sure the Rat does not actually have any asymmetrical clipping. I believe the back to back diodes are right after the op-amp, and both diodes are identical and are shunting to ground, making sure that the clipping is even. You are right about the "cheap" op-amp though. The low slew-rate of the op amp DOES limit the amount of highs that it can reproduce once the gain starts cranking (which means "adding more gain = getting less highs above 1khz"). However, in the end, the signal ends up getting hard-clipped evenly just like in a DS-1.
the filter knob on the rat isnt quite like a tone control. on a ts the tone knob moves the mid hump back and forth. on a rat its literally a low pass filter with quite a significant resonance.
Love the tip/Robin Trower tangent. It really gives the Rat pedal some mids from the amp. I still love a simple Rat pedal old or new! Sounds great and affordable to all.
I reallly enjoyed the video. I have been on my own OD, Fuzz, Dist journey for several months, landed on SL driver, RC booster and Comp from Xotic, I think I'll stick with those for now; oh, my favorite fuzz is the Cottonmouth from Rocktron, it's got 6 knobs!
No, no, no, the current RAT 2 which you can buy does NOT have the LM308 chip - that’s why the old ones and the 85 Whiteface reissue sound better as they DO have it.
Hi guys. Been looking forward to this episode and it didn’t disappoint, colossal sounds & playing, & lots of fun seemingly had. I was slightly hopeful you might look a bit at the Plimsoul in this one, but I do appreciate there are a lot of pedals and only so much time for you so please don’t view this as a complaint. Seeing as you say this topic is likely to be revisited, maybe it’s something for next time. I think it could be an interesting addition as the soft clipping stage is similar to a Tube Screamer, and the hard clipping stage Rat-like. I’d quite like to see you guys play around with balancing the 2 stages and hear your thoughts on the differences. And Noisy Herberts - surely that’s a band out there somewhere?
Great Episode, but needs more Lone Wolf Audio. Joe's Plague Rat (Now in a new version called "The Plague") is phenomenal! Haven't gotten to try his Plague Doctor yet.
Great show I've always been interested in the rat but thought it would be TOO much, yes it is for my playing. BUT this led me down the BYOC route to see if I could build one for fun. As a bit of a tangent. Have you ever considered doing an all BYOC pedalboard show or comparing BYOCs to originals? Just a thought.
The Rattler pedal sounded ace. Much more versatile than the Rat, very impressive! It gave some tube screamer mids to the scooped original. I'm not a distortion (hard clipping) fan in my own playing, but this sounds like fun
Perhaps I’m totally wrong, but in the early days of the show I learned that a pedal doesn’t have a sound of it’s own since it’s totally dependant on the other variables in the chain. Sometimes these days you seem to discuss the finer nuances of a pedal without discussing the amp choice of the day (granted you do change the guitar/pickups a lot instead). I know the latter is more focused on clarifying the differences between the pedals, which is really interesting, but it doesn’t really help me understand how it would work into the type of amps I’m usueally using. Not suggesting that you change anything since I basically love everything you do, but perhaps you could through in the amp perspective a bit more often than currently. Cheers and keep up the fantastic work.
The current RAT does not have a LM308 chip. The Filter knob is not a reverse tone knob. The middle position of the toggle on the JHS Pack Rat is not the "normal" position. The RAT sounds best with the gain knob below 11 o'clock.
Thank the Lordy for that - I thought you’d fallen into the trap of banging out noisy fat power chords and righting the RAT off as anything more. Then when you got into the Rattler and added some delay, that’s the sound I discovered a few years ago and is now the only high gain sound I can use. Almost Eric Johnson like with a Strat bridge pickup.
So that kazoo joke - I played a Halloween gig dressed as a gym teacher once and I found out that my whistle was an E. Anytime in my guitar solos I wanted to play that particular E, I just blew the whistle. I put it into a few melodies and it went over well
