The Radical Proposal of Sacred Art 

Jonathan, would you consider analyzing the symbolism of Burning Man?

The greatest artists of world history made religious art.

I teach art in highschool and many, many students who choose to take art want to become professional animators. I've wondered why for a long time but I think you are correct -- these adolescents want to participate in the culture that gives meaning to their lives, much like your cosplay example. Their strong desire to be animators comes from a spiritual need -- the same need that may be fulfilled by icon painting.

Liturgical year as perfect form of Art! Loved this idea so much that I had to make the comment! Regards from a Lutheran brother from South Brazil!

A very interesting talk as always. As an opera fan and director, I must slightly pull you up on a couple of points. In the context of Wagner, Gesamtkunstwerk, meant total artwork, in which all parts were integrated into a cohesive whole, rather than "ideal" artwork, even if the boundaries might be blurred. Wagner came to the formulation because he hated contemporary populist operas where the plots were thin, the singing all effects and fireworks without being integrated into character and situation, and displays of empty spectacle and pomp were the order of the day. Architecture did in fact play a part of his vision, as he built his own opera house (Bayreuth) to mount his operas, which continues to this day only to mount Wagner productions. So myth, voice, acting, music, painting, costume, drama, storytelling, and architecture were included in his vision. His mature works do not contain ballet, i.e. the most refined and rarefied aspect of movement which humans have managed, which was one of his oversights, and you are correct that they do not have a directly participatory aspect, but they do require (and succeed in engendering) immense concentration and focus from the audience, which is an incredibly important sort of participation. Many church ceremonies have this same structure (congregation all listening to someone speaking at the front, the conversation is one way).

Thank you!! No wonder I love square dancing, rodeos, karaoke, guns and potlucks so much!

Could you explain the symbolism behind the Billie Eilish character?

Will you ever make any new videos with your brother? It would be great to hear from him again.

19:36 _Gesamtkunstwerk?_ (ge-ZAHMT-Koonst-vairk, if you want to approximate the German.)

Mr. Pageau, I have been reading your brother's book and it has been extremely revealing. Please do give my praise to him. However, I still feel that my mind has not been fully opened upto the point where where I can understand and accept the worldview presented in the book. I ask if you could recommend me some other books for me to keep enquiring these ideas.

art as a window to meaning, instead of a way to destroy meaning

As a traditional painter and as a digital artist too - I feel very uncomfortable. Great part of my life and training have been to draw the naked body just for the sake of it, and to study high-state aesthetic in the means of: "The good art is purposeless." I can see most of the today's art shows, especially the digital one as executing this idea to the extreme - I have seen very spectacular events - the use of sounds - just for the sound itself, the use of light and color - just because it have the most direct influence to the observer. Some of the pieces can give really religious-like experience, yet they are very abstract. I question myself constantly and harshly - where is the God here, is this kind of art atheistic or not? Can God be addressed with the new media, with the digital art at all? Are my artistic visions forever to be incompatible with Christianity? The painter Wassily Kandinsky is positive about the beauty, about the color - he urged, art must "feed the spirit" by revealing "the internal truth of art, the soul". This is its prophetic calling in serving society. The artist must "be priest of beauty". Beauty itself is that "which springs from the soul", being anchored in the sacred. He have two books about this topic - "The Spiritual in Art: Abstract Painting" and "Concerning the Spiritual in Art" Yet even after hearing what he have to say I am very suspicious - of secular art, of my own ideas. Dive into Carl Jung - a great visionary and a mind - and quite a painter himself - making new connection with the Christianity, and pre-Christianity, with a lot of other religions, with very interesting ideas about the psyche, probably still quite stigmatized from the church. But yet - doesn't bring me real answer... Ahh and the great problem - making living with my art - the industry today gives quite a opportunity for digital artists. Yet the theme in the projects - in nearly every job is painful for me as a Christian to stand. I can indeed judge the things in the industry just on a professional level - but I cant distinguish myself from "just the job I have to do".... :/// Ps: I am coming from the Orthodox tradition; Bulgaria - I am very surprised to see this church in South Carolina, very Orthodox looking architecture.

Could you ever go through and talk about what the Ecumenical Councils or local councils define as an icon? Because I've heard that certain forms are preferred by the councils over others. Like a painting or carving is more preferred as an icon over a tile mosaic or a sculpture. edit: you described social media like the p***ographic structure. Some people show themselves to the world, and other strangers watch. I've never heard that expressed as equivalent forms, but wow that makes a lot of sense now that I've heard it.

I think people participate in music by dancing. Which is something that can definitely induce a mystical experience. Plus we not only have concerts but music festivals. It can be a DJ or a jam band. It brings people to live together for a few days, create a space together and often dress up. Then there are things like burning man or the rainbow gathering that are not centered around the entertainment of music.

Jonathan, have you been following Roosh's conversion/return to Orthodox Christianity? Amazing story, amazing man.

Very insightful talk. I'll have to think about it.

No requests. I just really appreciate your work. Also, what's the name of of the musical piece in the intro? It's uplifting and beautiful.

As someone in my early twenties, it certainly has been a challenge to weave myself through all the different kinds of culture and art, in order to find something that provides and asks more than novelty and aesthetics. Video games, social media, partying (festivals, discos, bars), events with cosplay and such, and even spiritual gatherings (ayahuasca ceremonies, tarot readings) all provide some aspects of what I seek but lack others. Some provide meaning but lack consistency, others aesthetics but no participation, yet others participation but no meaning, and so on. Now the Christian tradition seems the most promising to me, but it takes time to enter into it properly.

This is my dmt

Can you do a video on the eye of providence?

Given what you said, why do so few Churches have liturgical dances? The Ethiopians would seem to be the only clear exception.

After the first few minutes this speech really took off. Great material for reflection and important observations of our time.

Patreon only videos, the monks retreating into their cloister again. How long before the Vikings come a knocking?

I'm curious about views on Christian artists who don't do sacred art as a rule. Is there room for art that is not directly religious from people who still nevertheless see from a Christian worldview?

nice channel good information keep it up

I think we need a sense of belonging through meaningful rites, but goddamn you will not catch me in church willingly. Back when when I was a kid I went to church for 12 years every weekend, I'd rather die if I had undergoe that torture again. People there were as dead as if they were at home. That "show" is made for old people waiting to die. It even smells like old people. Church, at least in my country where mating is declining, is not a place for all people. Not everyone will feel confortable there. Maybe I'm in the minority, but although I liked some of the silence and I specially appreciated all that art, to me being in the celebrations made me feel like I had a hole inside me. I may be an antichirst to all of what you believe, but I feel more "whole" when I'm alone. It's not that I can't feel good or valued in groups (it happens), but when I'm alone my mind just achieves great peace on its own. I have ups and downs, but I have long periods of an almost spiritual warmth. I envy those who can achieve their humanity through others. I always felt out of the loop in this endeavor. I have accepted advice to just push on and it will come, but it won't, some people are not made for such experiences. I have made peace with myself, that I can at least be a force for non-evil if I keep myself together. Most people are so worried doing good that they don't see the ripples they create when they are distracted and not concentrating on their best actions. I've found that most of our existence is ballanced out by having awareness and controlling ourselves to get to a minimum impact. And so maybe this is my way. I always end up suspicious of those that give me a recipe for enlightnment, and for those that think we are all the same. We are mostly all the same, but even in our sameness we hide fatal distinctions. We have things that brings us together and things that draws us appart. Some will achieve communion, and some not as much. This is one of the most scary thoughts but also one of the most liberating from my personal life experience. I'v'e always felt (mostly only) taxed by others and truly "still" with myself. And this peace will never be subverted in my self. I hope you keep doing your thing in this channel. It's very pleasant to see people with such a beautiful understanding of our humanity. I've translated one of your videos to portuguese, and I hope you'll accept it. I'd like your channel to be spread here in Portugal and even Brazil - both have very intense christian communities. I may translate other videos along the way if you don't mind. Hope you continue to share your insights.

I wish you could come to Texas to give a talk.

Hello! Do you know of any music composers who are speaking of the same things as you?

Dude I want to hear your interpretation of rumpelstiltskin but damn I'm poor dude

Why is Matthew depicted with the beast of revelation with wings?

Why in the COMMANDMENTS says do not fashion no icon or idol. One of the COMMANDMENTS that was thrown out. Or do not pray to no butTHIGH FATHER IN HEAVEN. Just a fact.

Jonathan have you ever watched any of Andrei Tarkovsky’s films?

the class you taught, was that for TLAA? My chant teacher was over there teaching a class too.

23:48 The secret that he was about to reveal was too great and had to be edited out? /s He was saying that it represents the dome of Heaven, right?

Great, I love these lectures you give on literary and culture.

Just saying....

great stuff as usual, Mr Pageau! I'm not sure about the idea that modern cultural practices (e.g., movies, TV shows, music) aren't participative though. It seems like there is an unavoidable instinct and desire for people to participate and not simply consume culture as entertainment, despite the consumerist system that's taken up most cultural forms. I see this not only in the simple singing along and ability for immersion during concerts but also with quoting movies and TV shows and using images and quotes to make memes to share and express oneself, etc. I think the real problem is that all of these lack depth and a reference (reverence?) to a history and tradition, and so it's a never-ending cycle of seeking out new cultural entertainment in the hopes of finding something truly meaningful.

WHAT IS THE DOME?!

The bible says not to make any craven images of anything in heaven or in the world beneath. Just saying.

Is the change for the Greater Good or Downfall i think is what you wanted to say. Lol.. i get brain freezes as fell.. yes there is the same thing for star wars. Its a church for star wars fans.

I love your presentation. Your like a breath of fresh air during this time. Thank you for being here

Hey, in one of your conversations with your brother you mention that he has written texts in addition to his book, can these be found online ?

Anyone else notice that at 23:48 he says, "the dome is" and then the video jumps?

Is there value to art which only aims to represent the artist's mind?

I wish I had the money to see you in Chicago

Hey Rastaman do you remember Honey Rock???

Thank you so much for sharing this!

As one who performed, I’m grateful for this content

Hey Jonathan Could you do an interpretation of the Lil Nas X Panini music video?

.... beautiful, thank you!🌞

You are amazing.

What about books for example that are nihilistic? Is there any value to reading such books? Or does it just pull us away from God and is a destructive force? maybe we can at least learn from them about how bad things can get.... (just trying to find a justification for reading Kafka or other dark, depressing books)

Love this video. Recently you gave a brief answer regarding Ten Commandments & making images. You mentioned about how not making images of Christ now that God gave his Son is possibly somehow denying the Incarnation & that icons answer the 10 commandments. ( I am not trying to mis represent what you said. I am only repeating for reference ). Can you do the longer answer to this? Thank you for bringing understanding the way you do. God bless.

Hi Jonathan, what is your event in Chicago?

Dude....I think the King James reference to "Graven Images" is exactly this stuff.... Sacred Art. Eternal Imagry. Immortal Paintings. To worship a painting, or drawing, can be seen as worshipping a false idol. To give your strength to a picture, or statue, is to waste it on the lifeless.

Jonathan! The video jump edited at 23:49 **right** were making a point I was really leaning in for. Gah! Please fix! Or let me in on the full idea there.

Get well soon

I love sacred art But is no different from propaganda People forget Christianity was a Central Bank A belief system with constitution (bible), President (pope) etc No different from Current cult of Money or Democracy Statism All pyramids have their propaganda Love the art, just know what you are getting yourself into

Can you have an icon of a parable? It's fiction.

I love old art, but imagine if all that money went to the poor peasants instead