Honestly the community consensus has arrived at mint being the best for new user and if you ever look at thread recommending distros for new users its 95% mint and PopOS
None of the most recommended distros are KDE and everytime I recommend something to someone new, they always hate how "outdated" mint looks or how "macOS" gnome looks or how "empty of features" it is. They end up loving linux only when they try out something KDE based. It really stresses me out how the whole linux distros thing is so focused on gnome, while most new ex-windows users absolutely hate gnome.
I'm an old former Windows user, and I can't stand Gnome. I left the main Ubuntu when they went to Gnome, I had stuck with it from 6.06 to 14.04, but Unity 8 and Gnome were too much.
@javabeanz8549 i can assure you that like you, there are millions of others. Windows is the most used desktop OS on the planet, and most windows users use windows because they don't like mac. Many windows laptops are much more expensive than macs and most people still buy windows. So why would they like a gnome desktop? They don't. We need more KDE focused distros. The best we have for ease of use is Kubuntu and Nobara KDE, but both of those are pretty advanced anyway. Nobara has a pretty weird update system and can break itself since for some unknown reason they don't use the KDE native updates. Kubuntu has the snaps problem and many other ubuntu BS like very outdated wine and drivers. Still, those are two of the only distros we can recommend new users, and both of them are far from perfect. However, Kubuntu is, in my opinion, lightyears ahead a better recommendation for an ex-Windows user than any other gnome distro. STOP RECOMMENDING GNOME/GTK DEs TO EX WINDOWS USERS (This is for those 99.9% of youtubers and linux users that recommend Mint or PopOS to everyone and their dog)
The shattered Linux community is probably the worst thing here, since in reality there's no perfect distro. If we want the Linux market share to grow, we need to stop acting like kids on a sandbox. We need to focus on the important things. For example some promotion, which will say to other people: "Linux is dead simple to use, it's rock solid and you can often daily-drive it even better than Windows."
Cmon, how easy is just to install RTX4000 GPU in linux with all the features you have in windows? And without touching terminal? On windows... download .exe, click install, next, next, next, done. Lot of people have HDR monitors. Does HDR works in linux? This is just daily driving, nothing extra
It's like a chicken and egg problem. Distros that suit newcomers do not get enough attention from experienced users for improvements, as experienced users tend to prefer more customizable distros. I feel guilty of that. I would like to help improveme Mint for new users, but Arch with tiling is a better fit for my needs. So, it's hard for me to daily drive Mint and understand areas of improvements.
Because its greatest strength is one of its major weaknesses; lack of standardization. Neckbeards cannot agree on what is the best of the best for the widest audience.
is harder to cheat on Linux as the tools need to be full supported to the system you using Windows used old programs which linux was not able to do unless is uses the code that not changed when is switched More Devs on Windows for hacking the games with their Cheats because they got the highest rate of users using it -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Less Devs on Linux has it harder to find out why is not working because the anti-cheat can't run in wine or the server think is hacking system statcounter said is ( 73.31% ) - for Windows 4.5% for Linux even if Chromebook was to be good for that title they need to still deal with Sharing the love to ( free source's users ) valorant - can't even will work with it has it by their anti-cheat i think i know why they call it Vanguard replace guard with kidnapper and your see why they use ( van for the start from their anti-cheat Hint if it want you to sign an TOS void it because is not worth being with a anti-cheat that sound like a kidnapper was in control would you ( Hint Void PC kernel-level driver as it maybe an Keylogger or Exploiter to share info ( if they never say which info shared are you sure is not the account details )
I recently switched to Linux and when i tell people this they have no idea what i'm talking about. The average person has never heard of it and has no idea an alternative to Windows exists. When i explain what Linux is as an OS and as Open source they love the idea and want to know more. Showing them Linux and what it's available software can do gets them on board even. So Linux sells itself, once people know it exist and see it on action. The problem is that we don't have a billion dollar company spending billions to advertise it to the masses. Obviously free, open source software can't spend billions on advertising but the community does somehow need to get the word out to the masses better.
HDR color management already seems perfect to me... They're still doing work on it? o_. Btw, my mind was blown when Linux HDR is unironically better than Windows HDR. xD
_Edited for grammatical blunders._ The big issue I see is that basically everyone developing linux software (desktop environments in particular) can’t seem to understand what user friendly means. Basically any DE for Linux is plagued with technicalities that are great for insane customization but it can be extremely technical, and sometimes it's not packaged well or organized intuitively, imho. The vast majority on Linux currently seem to favor customization and technicality rather than ease of use and simplicity. It doesn’t help that there’s so many visually broken programs , especially duplicates that are sometimes incompatible and redundant variations or forked clones.
Yes. I need to get work done. "KDE is so customizable!" They say. I don't care. I need to switch the mouse to left hand and get to work. I don't care to spend an hour diddling with arcane and hidden desktop settings first.
*A list of real reasons:* 1) Too little / insufficient / poor marketing. - The term ‘Linux’ is off-putting for many, if they know it at all. 2) An overwhelming variety of distributions, desktop environments, options for installing software, etc. - Even if you are willing to overcome these hurdles and familiarise yourself with the "ecosystem", you cannot ‘just like that’ switch to something else, as Linux is basically incompatible with itself. 3) Inadequate and inaccessible user interface / design. - Even the supposedly user-friendly distributions struggle with this and, in the worst case, require their users to use the command line for regular tasks. 4) The toxic and supposedly elitist Linux ‘community’. 5) The lack of (commercial) software and poor support for current or new hardware. 6) The lack of sensible / well-thought-out defaults. 7) Lack of / insufficient backward compatibility. 8) Insufficient / unfocused project management *Conclusion:* While Apple and Microsoft have been getting closer and closer to fulfilling the promise of ‘it just works’ with every iteration for decades, Linux is still struggling with the basics. - As long as the Linux ‘community’ does not (want to) realise that nobody is waiting for them, nothing will change. Using Linux as a main OS is basically like using an Old-Timer as a daily driver. You spend more time servicing and maintaining your device than actually driving it. - Setting up and running a Hackintosh as a daily driver is also a fitting metaphor. *A possible way out:* If there's anyone who can save desktop Linux, it's Valve. They have the resources, power, know-how and most importantly the WILL to actually make desktop Linux a thing. - Linus Torvalds thinks so too, by the way.
@@UmVtCg How can you be so sure when none of us even know exactly what killer features Steam OS for Desktop will offer? Just like any other Linux distro, I would boot this one live and try it out first.
Great comment. I would add a 9, accessibility and compatibility with assistive tech. I think if anything can bring Linux into worthwhile institutions, it's accessibility. It's a joke that Linux is so far behind in that regard.
@@UmVtCg you already can...it's called ChimeraOS :pp but idk I daily drive debian on all my laptops but for my gaming PC I've gotten chimeraOS on it and it's been fine.
the problem with the outdated looking apps are 2: 1) most of them are simply just old. 2) there are way more programmers working on linux than UI/UX designers, that makes so the old looking apps not get the appropriate visual updates in a timely manner
Few years later this video will be noted as "Reasons why Linux desktop is STILL not competitive against Win/Mac" as I can see exactly 0 of them actually beeing realized. I'm absolutely with you on those problems and I am telling those exact (wayland excluded) reasons why I don't use Linux desktop (I have no issue using linux as my server) to my Linux friends for more then 15 years, the problem is that they see those problems as strengths of linux.
Most of those problems are just marketing: fragmentation is just resolved if we just see linux as 3 branches Debian lts, fedora stable and arch beta; gatekeeping is just linux users that don't understand the average person using macos/windows and pretend that a gui is not essential for userfriendliness; outdated design is caused by linux having amazing developers but 0 designers EDIT. To be clear DE are good enough in my opinion especially the major ones(KDE, GNOME, CINNAMON and BUGIE in particular) what am I referring to bad design is in the app themselves with overly complicated UI(gimp for example), and the fact that apps do not conform to the desktop customisation a lot of times(especially if you are on a general package)
I would be happy if there was a universal binary that I could install on Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora, Arch or any other without breaking the system and running in native speed.
I've heard that's where flatpaks and app images come into play. Haven't used them much myself, but I'm shocked more apps don't have them as alternative download options. It could even work for paid and proprietary apps as well.
Just chose the binary for what you are running, how hard is that? Or use the software store for older stable versions of the software. The choice there is between system, flatoak or snap. They all work the same in the end.
This. I agree, like just a package that containerizes and automatically integrates, this can be possible with distrobox but requires tweaking, and no i dont quite consider flatpak, appimages, and even less snaps to be the solution cause as we can see software vendors often don't ship things these ways..
When it comes to Wayland, it's been really rough in terms of progress. I love how pretty and effortless it feels at times, but there's still a lot of work that needs to be done before it gets usable. I myself got fed-up with it because I had to fight it to do basic-ish things I'd normally do all the time on X11 (most of which involved using my screen tablet for drawing). Luckily Valve decided to swoop-in and take matters into their own hands, but for now I'm just going to wait until enough progress is made before switching back to Wayland again. Wayland is the future, but even after 15 years it's still not ready, and X11's mummified corpse still has to be dragged around a whole bunch.
@@MyouKyuubi Yes, but only because nothing has superseded it yet. When Wayland is finally on the level of X11 in terms of usability, you're gonna see all the popular FOSS things switch over like a pre-teen who found their dream-job while working at McDonalds. And for the rest there's XWayland which still uses X11, but in a more secured way. And for the few that don't work, then yeah, you can still use plain X11 until it's no longer supported. TLDR; the only reason we still need X11 is because Wayland is still undercooked.
@@thepuzzlemaster64 I use Nobara, isn't that a wayland distro? Seems to work fine-ish to me, few non-breaking bugs, like certain windows don't remember their positions, but otherwise it works fine. :o
@@MyouKyuubi Wayland is not good if you're using a screen-tablet to draw. On Debian there's no good Wayland equivalent app that allows you to remap keys on my tablet because they keep screwing-up the stylus, so I have to use udev to do it manually. Krita's little dockers start glitching-out whenever I try to move them to my main monitor (I use one to preview the full drawing so I don't have to constantly zoom in and out) On top of that Wayland doesn't automatically reconnect my tablet when I power it off and on, or when my PC goes into sleep mode forcing me to remove the display cable and re-inserting it (doing it any other way doesn't work). Lastly, turning-off my laptop's screen screws-up my stylus calibration, even if I told it to look for my tablet's name in Wayfire's config file. All of these things are things that I do on X11, and it works just fine there. All and all, Wayland is just not ready for me. As soon as Wayland can replicate my X11 workflow then I'll switch-over.
Can we all agree that the best suggestion for newbies is Linux Mint? it's the most popular one, easiest to troubleshoot, so i think we should suggest that for beginners, instead of anything else.
I switched from Windows to Mint in 2019, it went well. Cinnamon is similar enough to Windows 7 to make quick start. I've heard good things about POP but have no experience with it.
@@duracell80 Zorin is unstable though? At least last time i tried it, the desktop kept disappearing randomly, and i had to restart the computer to get it back, lol. Zorin is horrible.
Distro independent software does work though. Flatpak and AppImage make this easy but even without those generic binaries can be run across all Linux distros and in some cases even on BSD.
I'm gonna stick with the penguin 🐧. Infact programming, Linux administration etc amoung other tasks I only see doing with the penguin moving forward and as a bonus teach my little niece and nephew the way moving forward.
Some points to address with your statements: 1.) Linux is not meant to be a drop-in replacement for Windows, it's a totally different OS and so must be the expectation of users that want to use it. Most of the software on Linux is FOSS and developers work on it on their free time, because they are passionate about it or because of donations. There are of course exceptions to this, like the GNOME and KDE foundations which are paid to produce applications and maintain their desktop environments, but they have much less budget and resources than Microsoft, so they are likely to produce application with less quality, both in terms of features, bugs and UI. A great example of this problem are photo and video editing software on Linux, they are far behind compared to their paid counterparts. So all this to say that you can't expect all to work seamlessly ( this isn't even true on Windows by the way, even if on a different degree ), any user will encounter bugs and maybe problems that must be addressed with the terminal, regardless of the distribution choice. I've personally used many distributions and even if on the surface it seems different, the story is always the same, you'll eventually wind up at the terminal, which is a good thing, because Linux spurs its users to tinker with it, it's not a plug and play OS and will never be. However this doesn't mean that there can't be easier distros to start with, but that if someone decides to make the switch it must expect to read and understand things along the way and not that things will just work. 2.) The problem of applications having a different or bad UI it's heavily related to what I said in the first point. Firstly the budget, usually there aren't UI specialists and the programmers do their work, and this alone may end up in subpar products. Then the FOSS nature itself causes software to have a fragmented style, because there is not a centralized authority which dictates how a certain software must look and feel, it's all up to the developers, hence you can't expect this kind of coherency. This can never be solved, unless money is pushed into foundations which will produce better FOSS software and that software would become so good to overshadow the other FOSS alternatives. Also just developing paid open source programs would be a great way to achieve this, people forget that Windows was a paid OS back in the day, and that now is free because it chews onto personal data, this is how it has prospered for these years. Big companies like Adobe produce their software just for Windows, because they know that the OS works for everyone and that everyone will use it and won't ever waste money trying to make a Linux version, because it wouldn't be convenient.
Honestly, the average user of most computers is not interested in the "why" but in the "does it work". I wouldn't want to blame the user for a lack of knowledge, especially in terms of setup, since it varies from distro to distro and is hard to obtain if you're not tech savvy. Better onboarding and first user experience is paramount and even the best distros fail in certain areas.
1. That really don't need to be the case since running Linux doesn't mean not running proprietary software in entirely. They "can" run proprietary software, but most of them aren't ported to it (although vocal members of the community are purist that FOSS/Libre should replace everything). The problem of this, the development cost for Linux is outstanding than just adding support for macOS or etc since they do have gazillion different subsystem for doing something (i.e. For sound, PulseAudio and Pipewire and For Graphics, X11 or Wayland. These different implementations), fragmentation of the system is too big that most of the boilerplate needed to write. Especially considering Wayland is missing core APIs for being proper compositor. For the donation and UI perspective, We indeed have several FOSS projects that do have better UI/UX in general. MuseScore 3 (despite the drama) or Blender. The problem is most of the vocal members of the community are favor of "Privacy" and "Libre" purists. Those applications improve faster since developer check user feedback with actual user inputs (not people nagging on support forums) with actual use cases (i.e. Telemetry), Most of the vocal members HATE this (due to "Telemetry = Spying" purists) and since they are all "developers", they don't have good understanding of what is a good User Interface/Experience is and just focuses make their CLI and underlying APIs available on GUI compartment., most of the governance in FOSS project that has terrible UI usually doesn't give a f about the UI/UX development and just focuses on what "developers" interact.
Reminder: Windows is still not free. It is endless free trial, but so is Total Commander and many other apps with infinite free version, but with limitation. Windows IS STILL A PAID PRODUCT. You can bypass limitations, use the free version for the rest of your life, but Windows was and still is a paid product, freemium at best, not *free*
"A great example of this problem are photo and video editing software on Linux" The vast majority of people, are not content creators, or artists... Your argument is only valid for like... 10% of the entire world population, aka, it's f**king invalid to 90% of the world whom are casual, average users that are happy with web browsing, Libre, and gaming... To which Linux is ABSOLUTELY a replacement for windows. GET... F**KING... REAL, brother... Oh my god... We need to stop making these arguments that are based on the use-case of a minority, it is not productive... Appeal to the majority FIRST, so you can secure USERS, which then increases MARKET SHARE, which then SECURES FUNDS... Only when we SECURE FUNDS, can we start making Linux TRULY viable for content creators and artists! Until then, you can feel free to stop yapping about the minority! -.- "Firstly the budget, usually there aren't UI specialists and the programmers do their work, and this alone may end up in subpar products." Your second point, bleeds into my argument against your first point... SECURE AVERAGE USERS FIRST... you can think about other things AFTER Linux desktop market share has gotten to where it needs to be, for corporations to take it seriously. First thing's first, don't get ahead of yourself... There's a proper order to things, respect that order, otherwise you will never get anywhere!
Wayland isn't quite ready yet. i also agree that the developers of Wayland need give app developers more time to adapt and switch over to it. It doesn't matter what OS people use, the fact of the matter is the most of us are creatures of habit and like to use specific programs for specific tasks and this applies to Linux as well. If people can't use certain programs, then they may go back to Windows or MacOS.
That's essentially it. That plus the Windows fanbois (maybe bots) that always run in a repeat the same myths of Linux that were true in 1999 "Linus is so hard to use. You have to type in lots of commands in the terminal to get anything done. It's too hard for non-programmers to use." This propaganda is HIGHLY effective and because people are generally TERRIFIED of the command line they will pay any amount of money and put up with any amount of Microsoft abuse to avoid it. I hate to say it but the bots work.
@@jedipadawan7023 Using brain isn't that illegal nowadays... I'm not a Linux fanboy, I just got fed up with windows bloat and slow OS.. Windows 7 was last best windows... period
@@perplexreality6081 Using the CLI has always scared people. Going back to DOS and CP/M, I remember people being TERRIFIED of typing commands. It's just not natural to most people and they are convinced they will type in the wrong thing and cause physical damage. It's not a brain problem, it's a fear problem. So putting the terminal and Linux together as bots (I think) do is HIGHLY effective as a deterrent. Of course, Linux has great GUI's now (er, GNOME open to debate, mind) and Linux needs terminal as much as Windows needs powershell but the bots always appear.
@@jedipadawan7023 I don't knw what u r talking about.. I'm just saying windows 7 is last best windows according to me rest all are slower bloated ad infested windows.. That's why I switched to Linux mint since a year now
@@perplexreality6081 Oh OK. Making reference to 'brain' suggested you might have been arguing that people being afraid of the CLI might be 'brain deficient.' My apologies for that misunderstanding. I mentioned, tho, because I HAVE seen many a Linux make that claim and state the CLI use is A good Thing and people really, really get down to the CLI work and writing helpful scripts. That doesn't help. Seen that MANY times in comments and the context in how I read your post. Sorry that I got it wrong. I bailed on Windows 7 as well. Everything after 7 has just been Microsoft abuse.
In the end it doesn't matter if it's the fault of Linux that there aren't fully functional drivers for everything or that software isn't build for Linux. It's still the problem of Linux and a reason someone doesn't join.
As a linux user using kde I... really don't know which applications looks old lol, all I use as of right now looks way better than windows and I seriously wasn't aware of any software used as an example (I use kdenlive which looks fairly good I don't use a calendar app, maybe that's why?)
I agree with point number 1. There's too many distros as how there's too many spoken languages. I think we should stick to only one language and that's german.
Everyone and their mum copying Apple and Google's dumbed down, overly big and padded flat design is what's ruining UI for me. If you're looking for that "Apple polish"... there's GNOME.
The main #1 problem is that PC manufacturers don't sell computers with Linux, they sell them with Windows. Why is Windows so popular? Because it's automatically installed on all computers that people buy. Most people don't know what OS they are using, or what an operating system even is. They have certainly never heard of Linux. Windows isn't better, it's just ubiquitous, and for the vast majority of humans using a computer, the only operating system they know that exists. They are given no choice when people buy a PC. When HP and Lenovo and Dell and all these other OEMs start advertising new computers with Linux on them, the existence of it will go largely unnoticed by the vast majority of people. That's why it's behind.
My ideas for better Linux unity: Three distros is a good idea. I think most of us can agree that Debian and Arch should be on that list, Debian for those favoring stability and Arch for the bleeding edge and advanced users. The third should be (hot take) Ubuntu, the snap issue isn't that bad and most of my apps are installed as .deb anyway. Ubuntu is really easy to use and really stable. You rarely even need the terminal. Three desktop environments is also a good idea imo, I was thinking Plasma for customization and windows-y-ness, GNOME for mac-like-ness and consistency, and Hyprland for those who prefer tiling. Also snaps and linyapps are bad imo, I think all distros should just support flatpaks outta the box. Its not THAT hard to get flatpaks working on Ubuntu, but it does require some stuff that shouldn't need to be done. Ubuntu and Deepin should just switch to flatpaks. There's also the question of deb vs rpm, maybe arch could have deb emulation and ubuntu and debian could have rpm emulation.
@@kidgoku1984 Not all of those are for noobs, just those are good projects that are well established and in my opinion have earned their respective places in the linux landscape
@@kidgoku1984 also I've thought about it more and the variety in desktop environments is actually a good thing, because it allows you to build your own experience.
@@CrafterAurora sure, but I think this video was trying to say that we should mention 2-3 distros for noobs Simple misunderstanding there lmao. Variety in desktop environments is great! But not for new users... I don't think a new user would be comfortable building their own experience on Hyprland, Gnome, or XFCE for example.
Something I have enjoyed in my very limited attempt is, I tried Mint, had issues, and then because I had set up /home on a partition, actually figured out how to install Bazzite instead without having to reinstall gigabytes of games. If I knew of other distros to try, it might not even take too long to re-partition the / and /boot sectors to something new. Partitions are a lot simpler than I used to think, but I imagine a lot of people still find them scary and arcane. I only wish installers recommended some size defaults if you’re going to split things up.
As for software looking old, I would say people use old looking software for its features. If they were down to give up features for design, the suite of libadwaita apps covers most needs with quite nice design. But no Linux distro can force its users to give up their old looking software like big corporations can.
I think that list of distros can and should be bit longer as some distros are very specialized. Not everything is just about casual use (where distros like Zorin, mint, or ChromeOS rules), some distros are specialised to be lightweighted (arch, antiX, MX), some are specialised to be deployed on servers (debian, bsd, centOS, RedHat), some to be for other things (you probably heard about Kali linux). I really think that 20-ish could be a good number of variety for everything without becomming too large bunch to handle
Wayland is not ready yet, but many apps are still being developed and maintained in X11 because X11 is not dead (yet) and it just works, no matter how spaggetti coded and screwed up on the inside it actually is
Some solutions to mentioned topics as I see them. 1: Just don't be mean and suggest your newbie friend something - well newbie friendly. Mint or Ubuntu should be fine for newcomer way more than Arch. 2: Just DON'T be gatekeeper. Everyone was newbie at some point. 3: I heard Valve put their fingers into this topic, so we might be covered 4: Matter of preference. If you ask me - as long as it works and is logical to use - it may look even like win98
With the introduction of frog protocols for wayland being introduced and already having such a massive impact on how new protocols are introduced, I think it's pretty safe to say that the wayland problem shouldn't be an issue
I daily drove Linux for about 4 months but it's just to unstable. Every time I start it there's always something. That plus the lack of proper alternatives (like the Adobe suite, you gotta compile VMware yourself and deal with dependencies (virtual box is just to janky to replace VMware) and autohotkey etc). Hopefully the windows 10 end of life will encourage more people to move to Linux and in turn encourage developers to make proper alternatives. There's also the annoying mindset of Linux software devs to be as diffirent from the industry stuff as possible, just because (like krita devs complaining about people wanting more Photoshop like stuff)
I refuse to use linux regardless of how better it is than windows/ios. It's not intuitive whatsoever and looking for answers takes ages. If installing each game/hardware will take hours of my free time it's simply not worth it. Not mentioning the amount of stuff that's straight up not supported at all.
Yep, I'm a passionate gamer, and until at least some of the Linux distros have 100% fixed gaming compatibility, I'd never use it, since I love playing and heavily modding all sorts of games. (200 in my Steam library alone) From what I've heard, Linux has gotten better with games in the last years, but is still FAR away from Win10/11 as an OS. Until I can run games flawlessly on my 4090 rig it is simply not an option. I hope Linux will get there eventually, of course. Then I'd reconsider.
The games that are not supported are mostly because their parent companies refuse to add Linux support. Please stop blaming Linux distros for this issue. GTA V is a great example, as it used to run fine on Linux systems, through Proton, but then Rockstar decided to add anticheat to multiplayer. Then they blamed Valve for not supporting Linux, while Rockstar just had to enable Linux support for their anticheat. Regarding game modding, depending on what games you play, you may be in luck. I have successfully played modded Elden Ring and Outer Wilds on Linux.
i'm using both windows and ubuntu each for specific reasons and i'm a developer. but before i even start my IT journey i was simply windows user and i was able to use it with minimal (and close to none) technical knowledge which i for now see its not possible to do when using linux like there really a lot of things that seemed to be typical user activities if i weren`t technical enough i would definitely miss up my system. The thing is Linux "desktop enviorments" need to consider more the idea of build it like if 5 years old would be using it.
I feel like Linux is always several years away from hitting it big, always held back by compatibility and lack of specific features important at the time
Not a problem for me. The things that don't work on Linux I don't use anyway and gaming is boring. Already switched to Linux in 2017 and never looked back.
Why is the PC successful when choice is a bad thing? If I don't want choice, I can buy a Mac. If I do want to have more choice which hardware to use, I can pick up a PC. But then, for both Windows and macOS, I'm forced to go with whatever MS or Apple think is the right thing to do. Now imagine Linux would be only Fedora, only 6 months release cycle, and only vanilla GNOME, and only Flatpak as a universal packaging format. Might work for the many people, but I doubt this would be the key to more desktop usage. The majority of Linux developers are collaborating, even when focusing on different distros and different desktop environments. Sometimes there are competing solutions (see Snap and Flatpak), but eventually, often one standard emerges as a de-facto winner (see systemd). And if multiple solutions exist in parallel for a long time, then maybe there's a need for multiple solutions (see the different desktop environments and window managers: lightweight vs. full-featured, opinionated vs. configurable, traditional vs. progressive etc.). TLDR: we don't need something that targets the 95% of people who are served well with Windows and macOS if this would mean that we would make life worse for the 5% of people who want Linux on the desktop to be exactly as it is: The way they want it to be.
Choice is perfectly fine. But you still need a distribution that delivers what Windows does so people have a place where they can learn without having to read a bunch of documentation and forum posts that doesn't make much sense unless you have a background in IT. I would say the distribution that fulfills this better than the distributions I have tried so far is Linux mint. It just has less compatibility than something like arch. We do need something that targets 95% of people, because they are not served well with Windows or macOS. The amount of people I know that`s not techy at all that is frustrated with with windows because of the constant privacy breaches and spyware makes that clear. There is a need for a basic OS that doesn't try to fuck you over by collecting info on everything you do.
@@paro2210 I agree 100%, that's something we need for sure. And Mint is probably the best Windows alternative for most people. It also comes with an always up to date kernel now (HWE), so compatibility shouldn't be a problem anymore.
I use Wayland mainly and definitely agree on the point of seamlessness. Only a few things don't work right for me such as Discord streaming but there are other ways to do that such as the browser or better apps or even just X11. Ironically my AMD machine with Tumbleweed is stuck on Wayland because X11 kicks me back to the login whereas my CachyOS Nvidia laptop works on either one but Sway and Qtile in particular kick me back to the login on the Wayland sessions. Hyprland works but is glitchy and of course KDE and GNOME work just fine. The Tumbleweed install ran Sway fine on an old 1050 Ti machine with newer drivers. Sway kicked me back to login on Arch on the AMD machine but not on CachyOS and I haven't tried it on the AMD/Tumbleweed combo yet.
i started with ubuntu in university (software engineering). I tried fedora and other distributions but i sticked with ubuntu. I think it can be the face of linux and it arleady kind of is. I think a gui for installing packages (like windows installion) and a way to keep track of the packages and the their versions through a simple gui (like when uninstalling things in windows controll panel) would go a long way. Also let the users create soft links to the thing you are installing when installing it through a gui option or make it simple to add programs perminatly to the PATH.
Linux mint xfce is my first Linux experience, and to this day i use it on my work laptop and my desktop, it looks slick after i modified it and it only sips on ram (600-800 mb) .
Most of the issues brought up here are PR issues. I've been using Linux Mint exclusively since about May or something now, and while I have no issues with it on a day to day basis, whenever I want to get a bit advanced, there's 2 big problem. The terminal and rights management. Unless you know the terminal commands from memory, you're stuck in an instant. You're not getting anywhere because you, or the app you're trying to use doesn't have the rights to what needs to be done. Linux *needs* a proper GUIfied user/groups management app, where you can get as advanced as you need to be. The default should *never* be "go to the terminal". Same goes for many other commands too. Some people, in fact, I'd argue most people coming to Linux have no idea how to be efficient in the terminal, and have absolute no desire to be either. It might be necessary sometimes, but 90% of the times, there absolutely should be a GUI for it. This is, in my opinion, the only real hurdle Linux have. The rest is just icing on the cake.
Basically I think it's be good to point to max 2 "enterprise " distros who are coming in primarily to get work done , and 2 community distros for darn near everyone else. And once people are ready to branch out and distro hop they don't need the shortlist anymore. Probably. Hopefully.
If you need to ask which distro to pick. Then the answer should be mint. After that you're mostly competent to chart your own path of the distro rabbit hole.
Would recommend the following distros for end users: - Linux Mint: An easy to use Linux distro which Desktop (Cinnamon) in a way resembles Windows 7 and 10. With it's Ubuntu (and - in case of LMDE - Debian) base there is also much and good support out in the wild for one of the most stable distro trees Linux has. An Ubuntu or Debian based system has older but more tested and trusted software in it's repos and new Features only come with an major upgrade when your distro gets a new release. - Fedora Workstation: An Linux Distro which Desktop (GNOME) resembles more MacOS but is also something own. Fedora itself is the base for enterprise distros like Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL). But as Fedora only ships free software in it's own repos it also means that somebody must install the RPM Fusion repositories to get all the drivers and firmware. Fedora also has a similar release cycle but newer software and features than a Debian or Ubuntu based distro.
The issue of RTFM was also for MS-DOS, but perhaps you are too young to remember. Now, under most Linux distro's you don't need to RTFM anymore than you do under MS Windows, or MacOS (They all have taken a lesson from smartphone OS, or even ChromeOS.) So that is a done thing. When I recommend that someone from either the Apple universe, or the Microsoft Universe move to Linux, I typically steer them to an Ubuntu or Debian distribution that has a "native" desktop interface that they are most likely to be very familiar with. (Mac users, Zorin, Windows users Mint. Of course both can be made to look and feel like either desktop.)
I never had a distro that doesnt break with my Thinkpad x230, already tested Arch, Void, openSUSE and Fedora thats why I reverted back to Windows LTSC and setup my desktop complete with the Linux workflow and hotkeys (GlazeWM, Flow Launcher + myDockFinder)
Good job on pointing these out as these are all the exact reason why I used Linux for 5 years, and then dropped it for macOS, + the fact that it is a unix based OS, so an update doesn't break it's command line, since most important commands are in a monolithic structure, as a result "it just works" truely means it just works here. Also, what is wayland?
You're thinking about it too narrowly. The freedom of choice that can be paralyzing comes from different people having different sometimes mutually exclusive ideas and communities forming around those solutions. Instead of thinking about is gatekeeping you should consider that most users would like new users to do one of the following: - find a distro that you vibe with with minimal modifications - cobble something together until you are content - strike your own path and create what you feel is missing which others might find useful I personally think especially when talking about it online that people need to stop treating Linux as this blob that's supposed to cater to you when you are empowered to encouraged to take matters into their own hands.
IMO the #1 issue is packaging. You can't package for "linux". If you want to support "linux" you Gotta make an arch def, gentoo def, Debian packages, rpm packages, flatpack, appimage, etc. On windows you create an exe and installer. On macOS you create a universal binary and a DMG.
@@Hardcore_Remixer fair enough but when people learn about HOW their computer works they tend to take at least a a passing interest in Linux. Most people don’t care how their car works either
@@seanfaherty Part of it is people really hating Windows 11. First time random non technical user ever asked me about using Linux as a daily driver was after Recall was announced and quite a few of my more technically knowledgeable friends (including myself) have switched since 11 came out. Windows 11 finally got me to the point where I'd rather deal with Linux problems than Windows ones (though I do still have a windows box around for some things).
It's true that Linux software is often lacking in the looks department. Particularly when it comes to sticking to UI design standards. Because a lot of devs for Linux either don't know what UI design standards are, or they want to reinvent the wheel for some reason. Can we all please agree that 'OK' goes on the left and 'Cancel' goes on the right?
I'm starting to see two things making Linux more attractive to people in my family: -Windows 10 is reaching end of support, Windows 11 doesn't work on their perfectly good computers, they dont want to buy new ones. -Windows Recall is being pushed more and more and might become mandatory. I can fearmonger even normal people into why this is a step too far. But even then, I guarantee I will have to: -install some beginner-friendly distro -make sure all necessary software is installed and ready -make sure all their usual tasks work with a couple of clicks -make sure the UI is as close to before as humanly possible -migrate all their data but not actually, erm, open certain folders -give a full rundown and introduction ...for every single one of them. The reality is that the vast majority of them won't ever even begin THINKING about installing an OS by themselves. And frankly, they probably shouldn't, because most of them don't know how to migrate their data. Windows came pre-installed for all of them.
Microsoft forces you to buy new hardware to use W11. Spend money on new hardware while your current hardware is still working okay just to use W11, is ridiculous.
When i first step into linux i hate how kde look out of the box so much and people will always tell you "just config it as you like" like bro i just get into linux world i don't know anything and i don't want to spend all of my time try to find everything in setting that look outdated asf and then i switch to gnome and it look much better but it lack a lot of features out of the box like vrr hdr and touch pad sensitivity (till this day i still don't know how to change that)
Linux Mint is the most ahead of the other distros in one area, that's being familiar and easy to setup, can't get on wifi? Use the driver manager and it automatically finds your wifi device and installs the driver it needs, it just works better for old computers like out of support macbooks or retired gaming/office pcs, has tons of uses that can make a old pc go for years and years given you maintain it's insides
I be honest and say I try Linux mint and while it was ok, I changed to windows 11 (as my original idea was to swap to Linux as my laptop couldn’t install windows 11, but found a loop hole which allowed me to install it) as I enjoyed the simplicity of windows. I know many people would disagree with me or call me “sheep” or something 😂. But at the end of the day, if I enjoying it then it’s ok.
There are not too many distros. It is like you are saying that there are too many shoes in a shoe shop. The distros are just choices for the user. You get to choose the one that suits your needs the best. If you are a beginner then choose a beginner friendly distro. If you are an expert and love tinkering then pick and advanced distro. As you grow used to Linux then try another flavor or customize the one you are using. The biggest problem I had was not knowing what the many disros did. As I was an expert Windows user, I thought I was an expert in Linux too. I was not. My problems went away once I accepted that I knew nothing and was willing to learn new methods. Start at the beginning and grow. You do not learn to drive in an F1 car.
@@yahavcohen3678 There is the Linux Kernel, then there are distros. They all do the same thing. That is translate user input so the hardware can work. They also look pretty with things like different browsers and backdrops. They all run the same software. They maybe packaged differently but Linux is Linux. It is clear you don't run Linux and think a distro is like Mac or Windows. Please tell us what specific software only runs on one distro?
@tiomkinnyborg2289 for example DaVinci resolve a few years ago (now not sure) All that compatibility issues fixing is done by distro maintainer, and only for open source programs (for obvious reasons). Most proprietary software is targeting a small set of distros at best. And actually there are a lot of patched versions of Linux, that can cause issues with your favorite app - so developers cannot be sure even that most basic stuff like the kernel, glibc and systemd are present in the system.
@@tomiyoshi The kernel is present in ALL systems or there would be NOTHING. If they wanted a program to run everywhere then make a Flatpak, Appimage or Snap. Propriety software is made to lock people out and most Linux users avoid it. It is only used as a last resort. If a program refuses to run , I'll use something else. It is not the fault of the Distro.
@tiomkinnyborg2289 some distros may easily switch to custom patched kernels, so you never can be sure which set of kernels you should test on. Most of the professional software is proprietary - DaVinci, Intellij (the paid version), the industry specific software i worked on... and while you can often replace it with foss, in most cases they either have less features, awful ux design, being buggy or all of them. There are opposite examples of both sides of course, but in general, I can't replace the software I mentioned with anything open source, even though I tried
Linux is not a distribution. Linux is not an operating system. Linux is not a drop in replacement for Windows or Mac OS X. Linux is a kernel. That's how and why Google was able to build Android and Chrome OS which don't function like typical distributions - In fact, I'd go as far as to argue that they aren't distributions. Why? Most of the production grade software users consume is proprietary and walled off from the public.
To my understanding, a lot of the community infighting is made to look a lot worse than it actually is. Yes its not good for Linux's reputation, but most Linux users are in solidarity of just hating Windows and letting the distro you choose be an afterthought, if even that. The people who infight are in my understanding a vocal minority.
The choice is one of the biggest selling points but also the biggest stumbling block to new users. They just aren't used to having it, they are used to being told what to do.
In my experience it is simply due to Linux distros not including and fully integrating things, such as Wine, which are required to run the majority of programs. Moreover, not having the latest versions of apps available on their package managers is befuddling to any new Linux user.
ive tried linux for over a year, I like the idea of having the freedom but as the months rolled along i lost alot of my stuff like programs I need to do work or general compatability for games that have anticheat so i was forced to go back to windows but I do still run linux on my main laptop that i just use for me time (just general browsing of the internet) and light gaming like minecraft or factorio
Linux has no software support because big tech wants you to use windows and mac. Which is why games dont enable linux support with their anticheats and purpously make their stuff not compatible with linux even under wine and proton. Its all a big conspiracy ngl
I think a part of why there are so few UX designers in the Linux space is because many UX designers are, at their core, artists. As an artist myself, I can tell you most modern artists spend as much time using computers as your average programmer, but nothing on Linux is designed for artists. There is literally no incentive for me to switch to Linux because I would have to be swapping back to Windows or MacOS constantly. An art program needs to be as fast and simple as putting a pencil on paper, or it will never recieve mass adoption.
4:30 I’m old enough to remember the hate for Microsoft in the late 90’s. It was definitely more than today. Bill Gates was despised the way Mark Suckerberg is nowadays.
Currently, my biggest gripe with Linux is that I can't just use one distro. I'm using PopOs on my laptop because it just works. I have a machine that is Zen3 with AMD graphics that has Kubuntu on it also most of my games run on it. Kubuntu is my preferred OS but it doesn't play well with the hybrid graphics on my laptop. My newest computer has Zen4(8700G) with Nvidia graphics(4060). I can't get Ubuntu based distros to run, OpenSuse just hangs when trying to boot, Fedora based distros kind of run. Arch based distros do work, CatchyOS seems to work the best and I'll try it for a while but I'm already leaning toward Windows 11 Pro.
Try with Arch or EndeavourOS, they're rolling release so your hybrid graphics should work out of the box, or at least it wont explode trying to function properly, if your Nvidia graphics doesn't work just install NVK (Mesa drivers) and it should use your dedicated graphics too. I have a friend with a Ryzen 6500H and a RTX3050 with arch and it runs games flawlessly
If a newbie asks me which distro is "best", I tell him to watch RU-vid vids about Mint, Kubuntu, and Fedora and see which one he likes best. If he doesn't seem to like that idea, I say the default choice for someone new is Mint. There's also the option of trying a distro out on a thumb drive or an old computer, but a lot of newbies don't want to do that. I also am clear to them to not expect Linux to be just like Windows or Mac. You can customize to make things a lot like Windows or Mac, but it's still never going to be identical.
Now I know this video is Linux for the average everyday user, but I see a lot of people in the comments saying how Linux is worthless and will never be used in the real world. They don't really know how the real world operates. If Linux got wiped out today and no trace of it was left behind, then we would have a worse internet outage than CrowdStrike, and this would indeed affect the normal everyday user
I mean if its in the manual, then its fine to say to read the manual, but most of the time the stuff ain't in the manual, its in the code thats in some obscure programing language, and in like Finnish or something. And even if you manage to figure it out, its like 50 versions out of date and poorly written. Like you can get by with just reverse engineering and decompiling the machine code, if the file is small enough, but I ain't bothering to do that. No one is, even people checking the security, they just blindly trust the written code and don't check the black boxed machine code.
A gripe for me with Linux (as a daily user), is that swappiness i set to 60 out of the box Distro who brags about breathin life into old hardware which often has only 4 gb of ram, will only have 1.6 GB available before it will start swappining run really slow.
For the sake of simplicity, choose any recommended debian based or fedora based distro. arch is great but it's painful for new users. Linux's state right now just needs perfect server compositor and developers' recognition.
The huge problem with those RTFM gatekeepers and often overall tech people is that they just can't comprehend the basic concept of ergonomics. If you would have to read the manual for every single thing you get - you'll probably go insane within couple of days. Cause no kettel or a microwave would make you read the manual cause if you don't and you suddenly push that button for exactly 2.42 seconds - it would fuckin explode. It's all made maximum fool-proof and intuitive. And if you produce a car and that car makes hundreds of crashes, most likely your car is shit, not the drivers who should have go for F1 driving license to handle your masterpiece.
Software devs have 3 distributions that most of the others are based on that they could focus on, Debian, Fedora, and Arch. Valve has decided to focus on Arch other software devs should follow their example and just help where they can and easiest would be to focus on making their software work with wine. I use an arch based distro right now and some programs I can just launch trough wine. Some work perfectly, some have some small issues but still launch, others doesn't at all.
I got a new laptop for work and since I'm a programmer I wanted to try out linux because I'm just editing text files mostly. I picked KDE Neon because it's basically ubuntu with kde, so very mainstream. Most of the things worked fine, but the little edge cases... Like when I pluged in my secondary monitor no matter what I couldn't change the resolution for it. I spent like 2 days to try out everything on the forums, but I couldn't fix it. I pluged in my headphone into the combo jack and the mic just didn't work for some reason. I added a kernel modul to the alsa config file which was the solution for other random people on other random distros. Once again it didn't work. And it just SUCKS. Windows 11 felt like a cold breeze air after this experience.
The design aspect is definitely a reason as to why people would be put off. Gnome and Cosmic have a consistent and good looking style to them. (Un)fortunately, Linux is made up of programmers and not designers, so there aren't many options beyond it without tinkering with things yourself. I personally find KDE Plasma horribly designed and cluttered while Gnome is easy to read and use.
meanwhile windows has programers and designers and they all work for money so it's alot more stable and supported. i will wait for valve to make a desktop os for now
The situation in Wayland is improving if you follow the news. It looks like implementing new protocols will be quicker and the whole development process more focused on getting things done, implementing them in experimental version to see if those work, where are the issues, keeping people who sidetracked the process away, etc. There is also a matter of legacy, not on Linux side, but Windows/Apple side, so it's not a Linux fault, but an important factor why companies avoid Linux: drivers, apps, company apps are made only for Windows and as long they stay that way, companies cannot transfer, even if they wanted to. The look of Linux UI is not a direct fault of Linux, but the fact that this is a system for enthusiasts, who just want to build things, learn things, etc. Building good UI is very, very, very hard. Although there are frameworks to build UIs, the design matters and even if it looks good on a glance, it can be hardly functional. Developers are not UI designers and UI design takes time, but devs are doing it after hours in free time. There is a huge difference between commercial product, where a group of devs of various specialities working together, being managed and payed for their whole their work, and a one-person doing stuff in their free time. You cannot expect that kind of polish from such small projects. There are bigger projects as well, but they are still mostly unpaid, so the development is slow and cannot compete with commercial ones, like Libre Office vs. MS Office. As good Libre is, it is still 10 or more years behind MS Office and for professional usages, you have no choice as to use MS Office, because it's that good. Another thing is, because Linux desktop is not a commercial product, there is no marketing or investments to sell Linux preinstalled laptops on a mass scale. Those small companies that do exist are too small. Big companies have some small lines with Linux systems or without OS, but those are minority and usually not accessible in stores. The whole business and app infrastructure exists for Windows and Mac. That is a wall that Linux cannot climb. Companies have no choice as to buy new hardware for Windows 11, rather than moving to Linux, because paying for new Windows PCs/laptops is still cheaper and easier. If a company paid tens of hundreds of thousands for Windows apps, they are locked with Windows.
I am trying to make simple wake on mouse work on latest Ubuntu, Windows makes it easy and works like charm. I am fairly tech savvy person yet struggling to get simple thing working. Some things are great on Linux but somethings are really frustrating.
i’ve been doing research on general info on linux for the past couple of days since hearing about microsoft forcing recall and it being a file explorer dependency. i have a problem however… everywhere i’ve gone, everyone’s been saying things like “mint is garbage, use this” or “ubuntu sucks, use that” and as far as i can see right now it’s all based on personal preference and personal needs. i want to ask a couple questions, from everyone here who may read this. 1. can yall quit saying one OS is better than the other? i understand sometimes it may be true, but at least say why. i’m always finding mixed answers. 2. how much of a problem is hardware? specifically for an inspiron 14 5425 laptop. what do i need to work around or fix? and should i dual boot win10 too? maybe ignore the dual boot thing, i may do it anyway. i just need pure answers is all, and it’s hard to find those. thanks everyone! sorry for tying a reddit post-length comment lol
About the problem #2 (Gatekeeping): the counter-argument for this is that if you try to babysit people more than you should, this means you'll be putting the time and effort of people writing documentation into the trash, and this is very disrespectful as much as gatekeeping newcommers
Thanks for sticking your neck out. If every Linux user accepted there were problems and that there should be at least one distro where user experience as opposed to tribalism was paramount, Linux might be a viable Windows replacement. I daily drove Linux for several years but gave up for the sake of my sanity.
As a Win10 user I cannot agree more. I heard of Linux for the first time like maybe a year ago. Seeing people argue over a million different distros is what instantly turned me off for good. I don't mind tinkering or expanding my knowledge later on if Linux gives me something that works right out of the bat! Preferably something that looks just like windows but is less dogshit. I don't have the time or motivation to spend hours getting frustrated on configuring a software that I bearly know. Linux to me just looks like some wild card with no direction. I have no idea if all the stuff that I have will work on it. So yeah I'll stick with win10 for as long as possible. I will then have the choice between win11 (which I hate hate hate) or Linux (which I don't trust either). Also the Linux community always came off as very annoying to me idk. Good video
Or maybe I want something that works out of the box, has great printer support, has all the software I need, can support more than one monitor flawlessly and gets 95% of the job I need to do done?
Windows has a single UI framework that all applications use. In macOS, there is one UI framework that all applications use. Sure, you can use other frameworks in your app on both systems (even from Microsoft and Apple themselves), but all of these frameworks use the one framework under the hood, at least to some extent (or are just wrappers around it, as in the case of Microsoft's and Apple's alternative frameworks). On Linux, you have GTK, Qt, X11lib, and a bunch of more obscure frameworks. Then there are distros that only use X11, distros that use Wayland by default, distros that offer both. If you design your application for a framework that does not match the framework used by all the user's other applications or their desktop, the application will look and feel alien to the user. Choice is only good if it doesn't matter what you choose, but in this case it does. I hate running Qt applications on a GTK desktop and vice versa. I hate running X11 applications in distros that otherwise only use Wayland. A Win 95 application running on Windows 11 looks better to a Windows 11 user than an X11 application running in Wayland. And you can take the above as a pattern and extend it to ... startup services. Windows has one, macOS has one. Linux has init.d, systemd, OpenRC, etc., and they don't all work the same, act the same, and can be managed by the user the same way. Linux doesn't even have a standard font library for rendering fonts to the screen, and yes, different font libs render the same font in different ways, and the user will notice that something looks off. And don't get me started on desktops. Again, Windows and MacOS have only one desktop. You can customize it to your liking (well, not so much with MacOS), but there is only one desktop. This sacred freedom of choice is Linux's biggest problem, as there are no standards and no common ground between distros, and often not even within a single distro. The only real thing that works that way is the kernel itself, because there is only one Linux, but everything in userspace is a total mess, because there is no entity that defines "this is how we do it, and this is the only way we do it", and if you want to do it differently, then you create your own system like Android, which also uses a Linux kernel, but is otherwise its own system and not comparable to desktop Linux systems. And no, I don't want to kill variants. Feel free to offer 100 alternatives to everything, but they must look, feel, and behave the same to the user if they are core system components. You can add features that others don't have and that aren't required by the core definition, but their core functionality must be the same. Just like I can choose between 100 different SQL databases, but the core SQL syntax is always the same syntax and will work on all those variations. For apps, yeah, freedom of choice, pick any app you want. Applications are not part of the core system.
Wayland has already been a issue for almost a decade now. If you wanted to use Linux on a laptop (or computer) with mixed resolution screens that require scaling? Wayland has been the only option, and since nvidia didn't support it and still is the dominant dedicated GPU on laptop it means Linux just didn't work at all. Only recently with nvidia improved Wayland support and gnome/plasma push to fix Wayland issues as Linux become usable for that common use case, and even then you need to work around several unresolved Wayland limitations like global shortcuts and universal screen sharing support.
my main problem is fragmentation, if im a developer, i am too goddam lazy to target every weird distro, and flatpak isnt a standard install yet unfortunately
