Especially after the name change they have turned more into the appearance and the fancy and exotic woods and finishes rather than sound or playability.
It's true, every now and then you see some maniac spend a fortune on a Merc with " SPECIAL PAINT & CUSTOM " interior , then see them crying because the car with normal paintwork & standard interior is worth double what their ORANGE METAL FLAKE WITH PURPLE LEATHER is worth, even though it cost them another fifty grand to have their car look like that. Only ever buy " CUSTOM" if you're keeping it forever, let's be honest, the reason you're selling the thing is because your fed up with people laughing at you, the guitar is perfect, it's just the Beevus & Buthead transfer isn't cutting it , now your 35 . 😅😅😅 . PEACE AND LOVE TO EVERYONE ❤❤.
@@bobwreck3775 of course they can be as well. The harsh truth that many man-children don’t want to be honest about is that beyond a certain point it is about getting dopamine hits by acquiring gear rather than getting hits from playing RU-vid reinforces this tremendously-videos that teach are exponentially less popular than gear ‘review’ videos Consume, consume, consume!
Warmoths are considered partscasters. Even the full builds they used to put out with the Warmoth logo simply didn't have any cache. Chandler literally bought the old pre CBS equipment from Fender when FMIC happened. Chandler was producing high end Fenders so well, it prompted FMIC to create their Custom Shop. A Telepathic will destroy a Fender Tele, but go for peanuts because no one knows what they are. Hell, Leo Fender started G&L as the last word on his work, any USA G&L beats the comparable Fender, but they don't fetch high prices because the public doesn't know.
On the same note, why would anyone pay full price for anything used, when they can get it for the same price direct from the factory, be it a guitar, drum kit, synth, car, boat motorcycle, etc?
That makes perfect sense. Why buy used at almost the same price as a custom order? The only other thought I had about this was the fact that Kiesel never made the effort to grow the comapny to the extent that Gibson and Fender did. They could strike deals with the big corporate chain stores, push product placement to gain recognition, boost sales and reputation but they chose not to. That lack of recognition hurt them in the end.
Great way to get a discussion going on this topic, Tim--short and sweet! You asked for opinions...so here goes: From what I could see on the used Kiesel market (mainly Reverb), it looked like the vast majority of offerings were "mistakes" (of every stripe imaginable). Of course the market price is going to reflect this. I'm imagining that those that "spec'd well" have no intention of EVER selling theirs. If they did...I'd bet they would command a higher price.
Also generally true that most modern used guitars are about 1/2 the price. And Kiesels are not a major brand with a sales history that can show higher valuation over time like the Fenders and Gibson’s / classic brands can. Most smaller bulfets have this problem.
So a run of the mill Gibson holds its value because it’s not generally a custom build. That’s probably true (every thing you said) but at the same time it shows how insane guitar resale is.
I took a Hamer to my choice LA pawn shop for a quick loan. Guy pulled a Red Eye out previously, since he knew I was into the good stuff. He obviously wasn't unfamiliar with guitars. He had no idea what a Hamer was. Hamer were Gibson Custom quality, brand is older than PRS, but a guy in the business as it were had no idea. Because Hamer only produced about as many guitars as Gibson CS. Production Gibsons are like 10x that number, year after year. Even the import Hamers are kinda rare next to Epiphone and LTD. I lived in LA, hung out at all the big shops and small ones, and I don't think I ever saw a Kiesel in the wild. Now, add in that they tend to be an acquired taste in a very modern sense. Does anyone clone their aesthetics and style? If not, there's no market for it. Being unique is way cool, until you're trying to explain to a prospective buyer why they should care enough to pay what you're asking.
I traded my Kiesel Aries (specd out) plus 500 for a nice Les Paul standard and I traded the Vader 8 string for a Les Paul Studio ( good one , not one of the crappy finish ones) even . I had them for sale forever and didn’t move . I kept my two vintage carvins though . I preferred them… EDIT: in my experience, the ONLY guitars that hold and sometimes increase value consistently are : Gibson , High(er) end PRS and .. believe it or not High tier Epiphone .. I been playing , trading , and hustling for 28 years now … damn I’m getting old , anyway .. that’s just how the market has always been . Subd!
I have a very nice Aries that I won't sell. I had it custom made back in 2016 and back then it only cost around $1800 out the door with their nice soft case. For me, it is one of the best guitars I've ever played and love it. Now, the prices have gone way up and I've moved out of my G.A.S. stage of life. I'm also a LP fan and found a beautiful Epi LP Elitist Custom (white) on Craigs List a few years ago. It's a little heavy but it is a gem and I can't believe I picked it up for $900. Now, that guitar has doubled in price in just a few years. They don't make them any more and when they were built, they came out of the Japan factory which turned out perfect instruments. If there were flaws, they'd be labeled as 2nds, which makes those even more rare.
@@RKDriverthat's nuts. Cool score on that, but paying that much (current price) and having to explain to some guy why you should pay LP Standard used prices for one isn't tenable to me. I paid about 725 out the door for my 02 Studio AAA. GC algorithm blessed me. About 6 years ago now. I might be able to get $1500 for mine, which has a fantastic top and one piece mahogany back. And, like Edwards, Orville, etc, the MIJ Pauls still get veneers instead of solid flame caps like mine. Only exception is the Orville By Gibson range, which at the time were twice what I paid for mine. Yours is likely a rebranded Orville essentially. Still a great guitar. And now a keeper!
I've sold a bunch of Kiesel and Warmoth guitars. All for almost what I paid for them. If your resale value is low it's because you spec'd out a dumb guitar.
I think you are 100% correct. Here's two things related though: 1) I think that "signature series" guitars will hold their value more. There are going to be people who want a "Sophie Loyd A2". And if it can be hand "now" used and in near mint condition for a couple hundred dollars less vs having to wait to have one built at the factory.....that likely would cause someone to pull the trigger without seeing a steep discount. 2) I don't know why people sell guitars. Just keep them.
I’ve had pretty good luck with mine. However, they are fairly tame solid color options compared to most😅. Still my favorite guitars love my Hyperdrive and Solo models.
100% correct on your assessment. But also, I don't think they can ever escape their reputation as a catalog brand. Direct sales companies have the stigma of be inferior, right or wrong, it exists. That's what Jeff was trying to escape in changing the name, but it didn't fool anyone. Treating customers like garbage certainly doesn't help, either.
Yeah I looked at used kiesels, and, the customer is wrong. All the specs of a custom anything is usually really stupidfor most people. I was looking for a simple Aries or A2 in swamp ash, no paint, or just a simple plain color like black, white, blue ect. floyd rose type bridge, ect. you know a simple basic rock metal shred guitar. and youd be surprised you cannot find this anywhere. like I feel like a real basic A2 would be easy to resale. But people put the dumbest poop on thier builds, this is what I have seen, ive spent a lot of days looking for used kiesels just to get like a basic a2 floyd rose and they just dont exist. and its always just a waste of my time to keep looking. Brands like Gibson they always make their guitars pandered to what sells, They have like a few paint jobs, a few different hardwares. ect. people know exactly what theyre going to get for the most part. But with kiesel, youre going to get the oddest looking guitar ever. I think they all look beautiful but just the wacky colors and odd ends people choose just kills it for me.
You are 100% right I got two and do not plan on selling them ever. But when I was looking I wanted to get my hands on one used first . Cuz it's not like I can go to a store and try one out first. And ran into the same problem you talk about. I was looking at a new price and used price and figured I'd just go with the new one cuz I could get it in the wood and color I wanted. So ya I agree 100 % with that.
@@timjenkins502 To the average consumer? No. Fender, Suhr, and Jackson, have insane customizability that Kiesel probably won't offer like neck shapes, inlay shape, truss rod location (for Fender or Jackson), custom controls, relic'ing, and more. Some of the most creative guitar builds I've seen are from those companies. Kiesel does have a good amount of options available, but some of the more "out there" options are either Option 50, which people don't want to go through since it gets rid of some protection you get as a regular buyer, or you have to be an artist to get them like changing the knob location or adding an additional toggle switch.
Those are typically a traditional classic guitar that's built to a higher standard: it's a 59 Les Paul standard or a 1962 Stratocaster. While the kiesel has a Froot Loop finish and hyper specific specs, an odd shape even for a Strat body, gold hardware, etc. It's night and day.
Apples and oranges I have Gibsons I started buying in ‘73 SG, 2-Pauls, ES-335 Custom Fender Strat and a Eric Johnson signature 3-Teles 4 Charvel Jackson all model 5 from the ‘86,’87 and ‘90 All American made and very high quality Just because Kiesel is made in the US doesn’t mean they measure up the older Fender, Gibson quality specs As I mentioned in other vids my Zeus cost more than any of the guitars mentioned and it is the guitar with the least attention to detail quality This never would have got out of most factories based on fret work alone And I’m not alone being critical of Customer Service there is no oversight as long as they got your bread what can you do Can’t bring it back to Sweetwater or Guitar center So post your experience good of bad as long as it’s true it doesn’t matter what others say
Resale value may not be great, but (my SH-575 and CT6) they are keepers! Lost count on how many Gibson's I've bought and sold but I know I've netted a loss on all my sold Gibsons.
I agree with you, Tim. But you can turn this around and patiently shop the used market for Kiesels until you find one that has specs that are acceptable to you, and buy that guitar for roughly half price. I have purchased 4 or 5 this way over the last 4 years. Of course now I have 6 or 7K invested but I can only play one guitar at a time. But at least I know the models (CT6 & DC600) that I like best and also know the specs I prefer. One theme I've heard over and over from folks selling their Kiesels is they ordered the guitar, then changed their mind after playing it for a year or two, sometimes with very low hours. Someday I will order my dream CT6 and after I do, I can start selling my used Kiesels for about what I paid.
Also, a lot of their models, though very nice craftsmanship, are knock-offs of Ibanez, which are sometimes half the price. Kiesel SH500, a super sweet guitar is $2150 right now, while the "same" guitar from Ibanez (AM93QM) is $700. Is the Kiesel better, probably, but how much better? Probably NOT $1500 better.
I for some reason was looking at Gibson R8s and R9s. For awhile they could be had for about 3k. They were 6k new and Gibson has infinitely more market presence and cache than Kiesel does. Also, Carvin had the same problem. Oh, the SC sorta Les Paul thing? Could be any number of wood combinations. God forbid it's a solid color. But you know what X model Y brand is. You can look up the specs. So, there's zero reason to think buying mostvnew gear is going to net you 90% on resale, ever, unless it's a hot limited edition or out of production thing people are overpaying for.
No, it ain't the case with PRS that no one wants someone else's personalized level of customization on a PRS custom instrument. The issue is that in the end, Kiesel is still a Carvin guitar, only way overpriced. And then there's also the baggage attached to the brand in which the company owner is perceived to treat customers horribly.
Any guitar that's highly customized is going to be less desirable to the vast majority of players. Even relatively simple custom instruments have an anemic resale value. I've seen a lot of Kiesels that look cool, that I wouldn't mind trying out. I like a number of Carvins from the old days. But they never quite hit the bullseye for me.
This is true of any custom guitar, unless it was used by a rock star. As a left handed guitarist, 99% of the guitars on the market I can't play anyway, so I buy something that I know I'll keep for a long time, not for its resale value. Typically, this means cheaper or mid-priced axes that I can mod to my own liking.
Kiesel guitars aren't high quality, that's what it comes down to. They are highly configurable- which is definitely not the same thing. I say this as someone who has ordered a custom from them. It had serious craftsmanship issues.
I’m about to get a used Kiesel, 1100€ asking price, colour is not for my liking, inlays missing. Those are the only flaws o it, but a new ones with same specs would cost me almost 2,5x to order. Would be cheaper to get used and later repaint and add inlays if I wanted. Used customs can be great value for not too picky customers. Kiesels are beautiful after all. Also a used kiesel is great value if it’s half price, since they’re rarely lemons from my research.
Same reason I think signature guitars are stupid. People will always expect you to be able to play like the guy who it's designed for. To be honest I pay less attention to how a guitar looks these days and more how it feels and sounds.
@@timjenkins502 that’s true there might be a guitar that has specs you don’t normally like and you play it in person and that guitar connects with you, like for me a guitar is more than a tool, like I don’t like playing a guitar that isn’t mine , and then you could have a guitar that has all the specs you want and it just doesn’t connect
Compared to Fender or Gibson, PRSs don't have a great resale either. There still expensive used, but it's a lower percentage of their original retail price when they were new.
Every custom shop guitar sells for ~half... I just double checked to make sure I didn't miss something big happening... ESP $6-7k guitars USA Custom shop selling for $2700-$3k on all used sites. Gibson $5999-$6999 custom Shop LPs, none currently over $2500.... NEVERMIND SKERVESEN! You'll take a 66% hit if you spec one and resell. Don't make videos like this uneducated... people debating buying one are finding it in a search and judging solely based on this uneducated title... You literally just gave folks trying to sell their guitars a hit, I only am here because a dude just backed out of purchasing my dam guitar because of this vid... I take it these were the 1st guitars you spec'd new, ordered, and resold? That's fine just disclose it that... I've made money on 2 Kiesels because folks don't want to wait for a custom build recently so you are wrong.
You might find a couple outliers in your skewed viewpoint, you might find very few esp custom shops going for that low but not all. Kiesel CONSISTENTLY has very very bad resale value. Mush worse than most.
@doublesynchrohelix8613 and if you pay attention towards the end of the video I say "custom shops" not just kiesel. Standard American offerings from gibson, charvel, Fender hold more percentage of value over custom shop, also its why I did not mention ESP at all, cause their American Line is Pretty much all custom shop at this point. Also Kiesel has one of the shortest wait times in builds. Most customers receive kiesel builds in 10-20 weeks. Other brands take 2 years maybe even more. With a shorter wait time with builds alos drives value down because the supply and demand is reached much faster.
When they were Carvin guitars they were affordable, When they changed their name to Kiesel and started making ugly guitars that were over priced thats when they started sucking. would you rather buy a kiesel guitar that might cost you over 2 grand, or buy and Ibanez, esp, gibson , charvel?
