*Notes, Links, and Sources* Is there something about Stalingrad/Fall Blau that you want to know more about? Let me know what that is and I’ll see what I can do. And also, what’s more important to you - individual stories like Pavlov and his House, or the big picture (units, positions, strategies etc)? Let me know in the comments below. Please consider supporting me on Patreon and make these videos as good as they can be www.patreon.com/TIKhistory *Links* Other videos of mine you may be interested in - The Myth and Reality of Joseph Stalin’s Order No. 227 “Not a Step Back!” ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-JOKAIDpOY80.html 6th Army's Rations at Stalingrad ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-occOOTk6OKY.html The BIG Stalingrad Airlift Myth ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-feeYOqQkr3M.html Stalingrad video playlist ru-vid.com/group/PLNSNgGzaledhLd1zG3MeeRSbIei6lHhxO Confusing My Ex Girlfriend with Random History Facts! Honey, Spies... ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-cTEYY5P0QbM.html *Selected Sources* Beevor, A. “Stalingrad.” Penguin Books, 1999. Chuikov, V. “The Beginning of the Road.” Panther Edition, 1970. Craig, W. “Enemy at the Gates” Kindle, 2015. Glantz, D. House, J. “Stalingrad.” University Press of Kansas, 2017. Glantz, D. House, J. “The Stalingrad Trilogy, Volume 2. Armageddon in Stalingrad: September-November 1942.” University Press of Kansas, 2009. Jones, M. “Stalingrad: How the Red Army Triumphed.” Pen & Sword Military, 2016. Many sources do not even mention Pavlov’s House and therefore aren’t relevant in this instance. Thanks for watching, bye for now! Lewis
TIK first of all, you make some of the best ww2 documentaries. I think It'd be interesting if you made a video similar to this, talking about myths and realities of snipers in stalingrad. Keep up the great work!
Glory to Captain Naumov, the unsung hero! Imagine that you end up being so much loved by your troops that they start a counterattack, dying in the process, in order to retrieve your body and give you a proper burial!
The Stalingrad 'Battle' is 7 months - from 24th July 1942 to 2nd February 1943*. There are wars that are shorter than this ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-NRqaveOD8TU.html *Note, these dates are the ones I class as the Battle of Stalingrad based on my research. Wikipedia and others say it began in late August (by missing out the crucial fighting outside the city).
TIK please, do not rely on wikipedia, or take it much of a source of any kind, I was horrified during my school years when I used it and compared the knowledge of it to the books and my teachers ( electhronics/ small elechtronics ) and the accuracy was horrible wrong, especially on LED knowledge. Just for an example, the info is basic lazy study but not really research worthy.
You know, I've been watching MHV for a long time and only now got the "Subliminal Messages" thing because you pointed it out. I should probably pay more attention to content I"m idly listening to.
"Pavlov's men killed more German soldiers than the Germans lost during the capture of Paris" Well that's very true, Paris was declared by French officials an open city and the 7th French division in Paris retreated, on the same day German Wehrmacht units entered the city.
Mister is jealous that his british soldiers didn’t and couldn't bring an offer like the soviets did. We all know who played a very dirty role during the second world war but likes to portray themselves as some heroes that resisted the nazi's. With all due respect to the british soldiers who gave their life ...but Churchill and his so called "elites" knew very very well who kept pushing Hitler towards the East and why especially what the militairy wishes were of the british against Russia after the war. Not even to speak about the trick they pulled on Draža Mihailović and his men. (Serbia)
TIK, Yeah, I agree with you, that the house was not as importiant as propaganda tells us. But even if you look at airplane footage, you can see, that this house can be used, and used as artillery correcting point. And in this case it was importiant for overall defending operation. Sorry for bad english:)
You're definitely right. As I said towards the end of the video, it was important as a tactical location, just not a major position like Mamaev Kurgan for example
Idk why you started with the Soviet Propaganda or what was the issue about it, but in Soviet Storm (Russian Documentary (btw, I would recommend watching it if you never did)) it was stated (as far as I remember) that the building was important for recon and artillery corrections, they never claimed that there were heavy fightings around it, or that garrison of the house was to small, they just stated that it was tactically important and that Germans tried to take it over with local forces, not as a part of massive offensive operation.
Basically most of information you give us in this video was in Soviet Storm, I highly recommend you watching it to understand Russian perspective on war, if you never did, or if you have free time to do so.
Well, Soviet Storm was scripted by Isaev, so why not just go to him. Maybe someone will find the time to translate his videos on YT, because apparently English versions of his books suck.
@@g-manchanel1710 That's the guy who wrote about Dubno - the largerst tank battle. Here is one of his lectures ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-y2wj8tnYlOc.html . There are more all over youtube, about virtually every topic of the war.
Exactly. This guy also makes false claims that Russians stated to have 24 men while he Quotes Russian defender speaking of TWO SHIFTS OF 30-40 MEN! He makes other inconsistent slanderous statements. ASSHOLE! ITS CALLED PAVLOVS HOUSE FOR A REASON! Not "Captain Naumov house"! Stop defaming pavlov who only got a fucking medal for it!!!!
Very interesting! Perhaps those under the wrong impression that you stand on the side of the Soviets can now rest easy, knowing you bash propaganda myths on both sides.
@@TheImperatorKnight , British "historian" talking about war that wasn't on British soil. Talk about your wars. You seem to me just like another Beevor...Don't touch our Victory over Nazis. Worry about wtf you did to defeat nazis. I am sure there is a lot of "folk lore" in britain and their stories how you guys defended stuff. Debunk that...
@@vandamme7084 What point are you even trying to make here? Are you saying that because someone isn't from the Soviet Union/Russia, they cannot teach history of those peoples? Thats absurd. How are we supposed to learn history about the ancient world when Rome and Carthage are gone? How are we supposed to get unbiased views on events when only groups of people related are the ones telling it? By your suggestion, those Nazis would say they were betrayed by the Jewish-Bolshevists who invaded their nation by throwing wave after wave of men and no one outside of Germany can contradict this with evidence! Or, even worse, the Germans will say that people they can't talk about destroyed Germany and the Slavic nations can't discuss how they worked together against an enemy they're not allowed to discuss! I have a Russian friend who went to a WW2 course with me and knew almot nothing about the famous figures when we all took a quiz together while I earned a perfect score when we were quizzed on the Great Patriotic War. Should I stop learning or teaching history while debunking myths perpetuated by self-proclaimed history buffs that don't know much about the subject they're interested in? Should I wait for my same Russian friend to show up whenever people mock the Red Army in WW2 so he can attempt correcting them because of their ethnic/national based authority despite knowing little compared to me? TIK and Lindybeige do plenty of videos on British war efforts during WW2, debunking myths and misconceptions as they explain the truth. TIK and I have extensively read about and studied the Soviet history and do more to debunk ideas on "German military supremacy or how the Soviets were unable to win than you are. He and I do more to help Russia's image during WW2 by sharing our studies with others than you are by saying "DONT TALK ABOUT MY PEOPLES STRUGGLES REEEEE!" You should be grateful for these efforts by modern European and American historians giving the Red Army their well deserved credit instead of standing by and waiting for Russians, who are generally seen as terrible liars, to attempt setting the story straight. TIK and I will be far more convincing than Russians who would entertain enforcing myths as truth vs. people without a conflict of interest or bias.
TIK yep, Pavlovs house seems like a great place for some player heroics 😉and you explained it in great detail. I held them earlier scenario about tank battle near Vitebsk in 1941. There guys played T34 tank crew. It was great, and lots of fun, guys were really glad that game was based on real events.
I think it's quite fitting. Things aren't always as they seem at first Glantz. And some questions are left unanswered simply because we don't have enough information.
During your video answering Patreon questions you talked about Rommel and Zukov. I bet it would be really interesting if you made a video/s about the best and worst generals for each major country.
Thing is, I'm still studying Rommel in the North African Campaign videos. So yes, one day I'll do a review of him and other generals, but I want the nitty gritty details first
RE: The 58 day mystery (16:20) - On the 58th day of the "siege" of Pavlov's house (24th of November) the encirclement of Stalingrad by the Russians was complete so ending all German offensive operations (according to German records). Is this possibly why the Russians only talk of a 58 day siege?
As I understand it's 58 days because Pavlov left position after getting wounded. In propaganda heroes that are alive (and kinda undefeated) are better - soldiers can dream that they will be like that, living and famous heroes. Also explains why it's not "Naumov's house". It was a lot of dead heroes as it is...
I always took Beevor, Craig and Overy's word for it. They are great writers, but Glantz (who I've only found recently) busts major myths left, right and centre. Also, might I say, its great to see the scale and significance of the Eastern Front being kept alive for an English speaking audience. You're doing a great job.
Can't see how this can be insulting for communists or russian. Actually russians learned by heart the concept "read between the lines" because everyone automaticly implied bias in newspapers stories. The huge exaggeration would occur if it suddenly finds out that Pavlovs house never existed at all. This would make me sad a bit. Otherwise - great job! I like this format of video.
It can be insulting because being caught on the lie is embarrassing. It is even more embarassing that the """"well-intentioned"""" lie lead to the rise of abominations like Suvorov and Co.
@@girf4233 , He a fake russian from 2014 ukraine. Just so you know, it wasn't for cummunists it was for the motherland and pure hate toward the nazi (EU) invaders.
Please could you talk about the Grain Elevator this is one of the buildings still standing. I mean i spent so many hours fighting over it on Red Orcestra 2. It was one building i remember from The Death of the Leaping horseman: 24. Panzer Division in Stalingrad by Jason D. Mark.
As this video demonstrates, you should take anything that Beevor says about Soviets with a heaping of salt - his dislike of them is legendary. His history of the war is enjoyable, but is to be read with some caution.
On a visit to see friends in Volgograd in 1999, I had the pleasure of having dinner in the House of the Specialists. I didn't know much about it at the time. I remember standing in the kitchen in the third floor at south corner, overlooking 9th of January Square, drinking Turkish coffee and smoking unfiltered Prinz cigarettes. To imagine what happened there is impossible. I exchanged a few mails with Anthony Beevor a few years afterwards. I was also fortunate enough to visit the Panorama Battle Museum and have seen the Sword of Stalingrad and Zaitsev's own sniper rifle. To answer the video here, I can forgive the Soviets any propaganda at the time, given that the Germans were a few hundred yards from the river. You have to go to Volgograd to understand the sacrifice and get an idea of the ferocity of the fighting. I'm an ex shooter and can understand what a hell on earth it must have been, given that anyone with, say, a Pak-37 on top of Mamayev Kurgan could hit anything in the city centre. It is also important to remember that when Anthony Beevor wrote his Stalingrad book, 20 years ago, information was very difficult to find. I was asked "An Englishman ? What are you doing here ? " At the end of the day, all Governments during WW2 spread propaganda and this was certainly true at Stalingrad. Without motivating the troops, disaster would have befell the Soviet Union, at least temporarily, as the whole endeavour by the 6th Army was Hitler inspired insanity. Whatever happened, it was astonishing bravery and I find very little credit given in this video. Also, I really do wish that the presenter had made the effort to learn basic Russian pronunciation.
Having said that, I also agree completely that the house only had local tactical significance (and for a short period) and definitely no large scale strategic importance. Also, it would have been totally impossible to get a Panzer III or any tracked vehicle to there, given conditions in the city. This isn't to take away the bravery of the defenders, though, comments about which I feel are sadly missing from the video. At the time, the Soviet Union basically needed heroes. Feats of fortitude and resistance had to be presented to the masses of the Red Army. End of the day, all Governments lie during wartime and it's been very difficult to uncover evidence in post Communist Russia until very recent times.
@@davefrancis4970 No doubt about the bravery of the defenders at all, but debunking myths both German and Soviet is the point of the video. If you want to make your own work to praise them no one is stopping you.
Great video, thank you! There are two small inaccuracies; one is, I think the Milk House is the next building just north of your circle, and the second is that `dom Pavlova' is actually called that as the location in the 13th Guards Division's casualty list from that time (I have a photo of the record).
Ahhh Pavlov's house... I have such fond memories of this map in call of duty. In single player it was awesomely difficult when played in the hardest mode. I managed to survive it by hiding in the bath. In multiplayer however it was epic and my favorite map of all time.
Im really glad to see your channel consistently growing, been around since about 4K subs and that was only a handful of months ago keep up the great work man!
According to my channel's About page where I record some milestones, I reached 4,000 subscribers on 02/08/2017. So in less than a year, the channel is x10 as large.
TIK hmm my memory must be off then however I do remember subbing whenever you had less than 10K subs and being absolutely shocked that you didnt have more. Anyways kudos to you and your hard work.
Very nicely made, and Yeah I also recommend Jones book over Beavors. Was it the Orlovka Salient- Battle that Beavor had left out entirely? i Was fortunate to visit the city in 2018 as part of the Soccer World Cup. I visited all the landmarks including the Battle-Museum who is actually located in the basement underneath the Mill and Leading to Pavlovs house. This was part of the reason they could keep supplying the house through out the battle. The underground tunnels. Not mentioned as vital in this 'version' of events.
Great vid again. Thank you for your big efforts. You asked what we want more - individual stories or the big picture. Personally i want both and i want a third thing. I've always wanted to see something like a timeline of the battle. Not only Stalingrad but all famous battles. I want to see day by day or a week the approximate possition and number of the forces that took the fighting. By that way a person may understand better all breakthroughs, encirclement, frontlines, retreat and supply routes. I know this is a hard thing to do but i think it will totaly worth if it is possible to do. Best regards!
Thanks for the feedback! Have you seen my Battlestorm documentaries?? Specifically Battleaxe and Bruneval. That's the type of video I'm working on behind the scenes, and they're exactly what you're describing. The next one will be Operation Crusader, then I'm doing one on the Courland Pocket, then finally Stalingrad
Having read Beevor's battle of Crete I can tell you that this man does believe in fairy tales, but it's because of his political ideological allegiances. That is a shame.
Beebvor is like a good liar. He tells you enough of truth to sound factual but likes to add a bit of fluff for sake of making his books more exciting. In the end if he includes positive or nagative bullshit is dependant on which side the country he is talking about was during the cold war.
@ Mitchell Line - He's a hack. I had written a more detailed reply to your comment when I checked my sources and realized just how much he is a hack, and deleted it. I spent 20 minutes on a total takedown, and then found his ignorance was even more basic. I almost feel used, but justified.
TIK for a time i really had shifted to Irving. The guy almost had me conviced that barbarossa WAS based on a real case of soviet planning of attack. So embarased..
I have always been intersted in WW2 history and today I learned something new.All this time when I used to read about 'Pavlov's House' I always assumed it was where Anton Pavlov used to live.
Your videos are amazing, The stalingrad book by beevor is one of my favorites but seems like even a highly regarded historian like beevor get things wrong, thanks for the info and the videos!
Hi Liked the video and your forensic approach to the topic. One issue did make me think and that was the term propaganda and how we should understand it and its relation to history. Propaganda seeks to tell a narrative from a chosen perspective, it looks to simplify that narrative and use selected facts to promote a particular understanding of events. Now, as you have indicated on occasion, historians likewise have tended to simply narratives, the Pavlov's House story is complex, disjointed, given undue prominence, all of which take time and effort to deal with when one is trying to paint a bigger picture - why not take elements that appear to support your argument and not worry about the rest? This is the problem for the historian and needs to be resisted, yet it is a constant problem on encounters where the well trodden path is full of half truths that have become accepted orthodoxy.
I hope you're reviewing those AUP (Army University Press) videos on stalingrad & the hardpoints of old, and hope to hear what you think of them, historical accuracy, sources, etc... they are the only one's that compare with your work. Must say, really enjoy this stuff... details, details, vidz, it's all (a lot a least) in the details.... thanks much for these, they are the (a) Bomb!
You must be one of those shitheads that only chooses Apartments or Bridges of Druzhina Gumrak is the best map. Tula Outskirts is the best map. Even mamayev kurgan can be best map. Pavlov's house is a chore and a clusterfuck.
Massa' Tobias As for bridges, although it's one of the best maps, I almost never pick it. It got stale fairly quick with it being picked 2-3 times every campaign
Fantastic as always! Wish I had the paycheck to help you out. I'd really love it if you could do a video on the Battle of Sidi Nsir in Tunisia February 1943, a valiant and rarely told bit of history. It'd also be interesting if you told the story of Stalin's command of the South front in the Russian civil war, battles such as Tsaritsyn and the invasion of Georgia, might give an interesting insight on Soviet mindset in WWII.
I'll get to Siding Nsir when I reach 1943 in my Battlestorm North African Campaign videos. Russian Civil War may be a bit out of my scope for this channel at the minute, but possibly in the far future.
Honestly, to their credit, the propaganda is much more emotional. The real history is very interesting. But it's much more exciting to read about a rag tag group outsmarting a continuous assault and surviving through the skin of their teeth, the epic of a hardened but merry bunch comes from ages ago, you could say the Argonauts had some of that. And it's even more prevalent nowadays. Plus, although it makes the story less believable, having a soldier from each part of the Union to symbolize their unified struggle and share credit for the turning point is great for unity. It works to mend the idea that one group failed to defeat the Germans, it turns it into a victory for the nation, instead of a victory of a single part of it. Seriously, the real history should always prevail so that we can properly learn and evolve from it. But, in all fairness, the propaganda alteration served its purpose much better than the original. Great work for both historians clarifying it and propagandists warping it.
5 лет назад
"to symbolize their unified struggle" That's a funny way of saying "They were enslaved into the army, with the only alternative being death."
@ lol fighting fascist invaders who butchered the citizenry required enslavement into the army for the citizens to fight against it. PRESS X TO DOUBT
5 лет назад
@@JohnSmith-nz1vj If the Russian lies about voluntary resistance were true, then please explain conscription at gunpoint, political comissars to threaten unenthousiastic people with being killed, as well as the existance of so many Waffen SS volunteers and Osttruppen from the ranks of former slave-soldiers of the Russians who surrendered to the axis?
@ Haha, you smelly Nazi Wehraboo, when they fight for Soviets, then it's at a gun point, but when they're fighting against their own people for the fucking Nazis, then it's voluntary. You smelly piece of shit. There's nothing to explain about "political comissars to threaten unenthousiastic people with being killed" , because it's fucking Wehraboo lie, the same way there's nothing to explain about "existance of so many Waffen SS volunteers and Osttruppen" , because these people were collected from the concetration camps and the only way for them to escape death was to fight for the Nazis. And of course the enormous majority of the people fought voluntary for the Soviets because the alternative was to be wiped out by the Hitlerites. But you probably don't believe in Holocaust nor that concentration camps served to kill people, so I can only tell you to eat shit and that your side lost because you were worse men, and that Slavic untermenchen will always kick your nazi-loving "aryian" ass, every time you try, until you learn your lesson. And id you feel different, please come over and try you piece of shit.
It's great seeing a much more unbiased view of events like this in the war. Historians (published or armchair) often lean too far into either the official German or Soviet accounts of what happened on the Eastern Front, without the healthy dose of further inquiry and skepticism into the claims of both. There's a current tendency where, within the backlash against the "Wehraboo" crowd, you find people citing Soviet accounts without the same heavy skepticism they practice with German accounts; there's an irony in the insistence that German narratives are exaggerated fiction, while wholeheartedly embracing the narrative of another nation that is notorious for its propaganda campaigns. People need to realize that any historical account is likely to be coloured by the sentiments, politics, and personal prejudices (Beevor) of the author or their overseers, and this is not unique to any particular party of the war. I appreciate your videos on Market Garden for dissecting the contradicting stories given by the people who were there, which highlights how very differently the other people involved are portrayed based on who tells the story. Thanks for the quality content!
Amazing combat and endurance by the Soviet soldiers in and around Pavlovs house. It really shows the ingenuity and tenacity needed for urban warfare. I think the Sovs missed a trick by trying to portray the battle as an epic siege around strong individuals rather than a continued battle in a small part of the city were the only constants are the enemy, the camaraderie of fellow soldiers (proud Soviet men of course) and the fighting itself.
Hi, nice video! could you do a video about the bombing of dresden? there is so much misinformation about it around and I lived there for over 20 years so it really bugs me....
I do want to cover the air war eventually, but it may be a while away. I will do the bombing of Dresden (and other such bombings) when I get to it, yes
In Russian sources Naumov is called a senior lieutenant and mentioned as the company commander. Seems to have been promoted after death. As such, while he was in command of Pavlov's house, he was not in command AT Pavlov's house, having a wider area of responsibility. To this day there's some controversy over who(if anyone) commanded AT the house, with one major option being lt. Afanasiev, who was the commander of machine gun platoon stationed at Pavlov's house. Afanasiev wrote a book of memoirs. There was also a mortar platoon commanded by jr. lt. Chernyshko, who died during the defense.
I think the main reason the official Soviet propaganda chose to have Sergeant Pavlov as the star of this story, was the fact that he managed to survive the entire war. I do remember that at the end of the short narrative I read in the "Great Book of the Second World War" from Reader's Digest, that following his succesful defense of the house, Pavlov would go on to perform more feats of heroism all the way to Berlin, to the end of the war. Since the original commander was killed during the fighting, it didn't fit the narrative and basing a propaganda story on a dead hero was rather pessimist/defeatist when the war shifted to the Soviet's advantage from this point on. I think there's a simple explanation for the fact that the defense of the house halted before the Battle of Stalingrad was concluded: the Germans probably lost interest in the position and stopped their attacks so the defense could be 'downgraded.' And it doesn't fit a propaganda tale that the enemy simply stopped attacking.
Another brilliant video. This is the Type of revisionism needed. Some may not like your interpretation but the story now is more heroic and honours the sacrifice of all present. Your presentation is once again dynamic, smooth and catching. I would love to be able to produce a video half as good (maybe a possible topic for ond of your tangent videos).
This was a very interesting video! The real story is actually more interesting yet again. At this point I aint even surprised, them propagandists really need to up their writing game :D ! This is far more dramatic and balanced!
Better as a story, but imagine yourself as a soldier. Do you want to read about a dead hero (Naumov) or one that fought for 58 days and survived? At this stage of war?..
Dom Pavlova is shown at 00:32+ in a newsreel, “Life Returns-Stalingrad (1943),” at the British Pathé website. -Also in RU-vid video “Stalingrad: 1946-1949” at 1:43. -In YT video, "The World at War 1973 WW2 EP 9 Stalingrad 1942" at 9:41.
Great information about pavl.. i mean the lighthouse. The maps in the backround where did you find them ? can be downloaded from somewhere ? I hope you return to stalingrad part more frequently thank you.
The green and grey ones come from Google images, so yes you should be able to find them. The one where I drew the green line and arrows comes from Glantz's Stalingrad. And I should be most sticking to Stalingrad in these videos.
I'm not sure what it all is about. I was born in Volgograg (Stalingrad). My grand-grandfather was a "metal turner" (not sure what it is in English, токарь по металлу in Russian) at the Barricades Arms Factory (or whatever it's called in English). He was there during the early battle. He was evacuated 15 Sep to Sverdlovsk (Yekaterinburg). But some of his family members stayed. It was literally a bloody mess: nazis bombed the evaco-ships and evaco-ferries daily and nightly for months; many civ people died in the Volga trying to evacuate. These who stayed worked and fighted (there was a huge shortage in army men at early stages of the battle, at least near the Barricades Factory) the whole battle from the first day to the last day. My grand-grandfather and most of his male relatives had medals for it (medal "For the Defence of Stalingrad"). Soooo... As you can see, I know pretty much about it "from the first hand" or, at worst, from the second hand (my more younger elderly relatives). And I can confirm, I was only told about the Pavlov house as an example of heroism, bravery and valor. I've never heard about it in the context of tactics or strategy. They were brave people. They did all they could plus more and plus more again. They put their little 1 kopeika coin (~ 1 cent) to the piggy bank of the victory. That's it. I'm really confused to hear, there was something else about the Pavlov House beyond that. Was it USSR propaganda to the Western countries? Because it's strange I didn't hear that despite I'm a Volgogradian and my relatives took part in the battle.
An account I read said Lt. Afanasiev led the first reinforcements into the house once it was taken by Pavlov's storm group. He took command as a senior to Pavlov. I am not sure about the captain, he probably came with later reinforcements. Afanasiev was indeed blinded at some point, but after the war underwent a difficult surgery at the hands of one of the best eye surgeons in the USSR that restored his vision.
I know this comment will probably go unnoticed but I'll leave my 50 kopeek anyway. 1. Some inconsistency with ranks in the video. Yes, I. Naumov and A. Dragan were commanders of the 7th company (3rd battalion under the command of captain A. Zhukov, 42nd guards regiment under the command of colonel I. Elin). But they were not Captains. They we Senior Lieutenants, that's one rank below Captain. 2. How the house was captured? Naumov ordered Pavlov to scout the building with 4 floors near ruins of "House of Zabolotny" on the square "of the 9th November". Pavlov with his group ended up taking the building completely. Pavlov claims that when his group encountered Germans soldiers inside, he decided to capture the house (instead of just scouting it, as he was ordered). Zhukov after the war claimed that Pavlov took the building without any fight because there were no Germans inside. 3. Beginning of the "Pavlov's house garrison". After two days since Pavlov with his group captured the building, Zhukov and Naumov gathered a group of soldiers and officers to defend the house. At that time, they gathered approximately 30 people. Lieutenant I. Afanasyev with a rifle squad (Maxim machine gun, PPSh-41 submachine guns and one sniper), a squad of AT rifles under the command of Sergeant A. Sobgaida, two mortars under the command of Junior Lieutenant A. Chernushenko and a junior sergeant Y. Pavlov's reconnaissance group. It is uncertain when a machine gun squad under the command of Senior sergeant I. Voronov joined the garrison. Afanasyev (commander of a platoon of the 7th company) became a commander of the garrison. There were approximately 50 civilians inside the house as well at that time. Pavlov became a commandant of the house. So like he was in charge of all these non-military but still important aspects of life. Over time the garrison was strengthened by additional soldiers. That's why the number of defenders can be so confusing. 4. End of the garrison. Some time before 24th of November colonel I. Elin (42nd guards regiment) among other commanders received an order to begin an attack to "destroy German forces and gain a foothold on the western outskirts of Stalingrad". Keep in mind, that "Pavlov's house garrison" was a temporary unit and a lot of its defenders originally were from different units. The garrison was disbanded on the 24th of November before the attack on the "Milk house". That's why Pavlov's house was defended for 58 or so days. Because there was no "Pavlov's house garrison" after a certain date. 5. Pavlov's house? When the house was captured Zhukov marked this house for artillery as "Pavlov's house". There is a temporary map made by Dragan (so, after the death of Naumov) which says "Defence of Pavlov's house". So it's not just some random name used by propaganda, this name was given to this house by a battalion commander after his subordinate took it. Spotters who used that house for... spotting gave it a nickname "Маяк" (Which can be translated as "Lighthouse" or "Beacon") I should also point out that I. Afanasiev was not happy that Pavlov took all the glory of the garrison while nobody knew about Afanasiev's role. Soviet newspapers used "Pavlov's house" name because it is the name which was on the maps at the time. So if Zhukov would name it "Afanasiev's house" after the commander of the garrison, Afanasiev would probably become a hero of Soviet Union instead of Pavlov. I am sorry if my comment is too long and/or you can't understand my poor English. I was really upset by some details in the video.
The information in the video came from the sources listed in the pinned comment. Can you please list your sources? Some of what you've said is certainly questionable - 1) My sources list them as Captains. This could simply be a language translation issue, but nothing to get upset about. 2) It is disputed how they took the house, but not a single one of the sources I have say the house was captured the way you described it. 3) Assuming all these facts are true, these only add to the story, not dispute anything said in the video. 4) The official account of the siege ended after 58 days because Pavlov was wounded and carted off. But the siege continued until the 10th of January, when Dragan's garrison was ordered to go north. You say there's no house garrison after that date, but this is incorrect as stated in the video, by one of the veterans of the house. 5) "Soviet newspapers used "Pavlov's house" name because it is the name which was on the maps at the time." No, it wasn't called that on their maps; I said this in the video. And not only is that confirmed in my sources, but since the publication of this video, French historian Anton Joly also confirms this ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-kJ0QtCuJSN4.html
2) “Shard in the Heart" («Осколок в сердце») by Yury Beledin (Юрий Беледин), 2007. He claims that Zhukov in his correspondence with fellow soldiers wrote that Pavlov took the house without fight. Pavlov himself describes this episode in his book “In Stalingrad” («В Сталинграде»), 1951. 3) I am not trying to dispute anything, I am just trying to clarify some details. 4) Rodimtsev mentions disbandment of the garrison on the 24th of November in his book “Guards fought for death”(«Гвардейцы стояли насмерть»), 1968. It does not mean that Pavlov’s house was irrelevant after that date or no one defended it. It means that there was no Pavlov’s house garrison under the command of Lt. Afanasiev who defended it for 58 or so days as we know it. 5) Here is that Dragan’s map. i.imgur.com/o04Lj5H.jpg «Дом Пав-лова» in the center. I am not saying this building was marked as “Pavlov’s house” on every map, but there are some maps with “Pavlov’s house” on them. Anyway, I agree that’s not the major reason why it’s called that way.
Well you engaged one of my favorite stories of WW2. I also played COD1 as a kid but didn't think much of this particular level, later when I heard the story I remember playing it and I was awestruck. Since this is the theme of this channel, have you considered making a video about the atomic strikes in Japan? I have found people saying ( and they backed their point well ) that they weren't that catalytic to ending the war as post war USA and Japan tried to make it look ( for political and diplomatic reasons). I would love to see your take on this subject.
Another great video, Tik. I agree with you, the version of events based on the facts is far more gripping than the Soviet propaganda. "Nice one, Beevor!" Great ending, I'm still laughing. :-D
Tik Tock you rock,,I love the way you present the facts,, great job, great video, great channel, soo good to hear an impartial view of history,, keep up the brilliant work,,
I did read both Beevor's books "Stalingrad" and "The Fall of Berlin 1945" about ten years ago, so don't remember all the details. The impressions of the first book were very positive and very close to what we hear and read in Russian; but the second one supports the myth about the 2 million German women allegedly raped by the Soviet soldiers. Would you make a video about this topic?
great video! I do have one question though and it may be slightly off-topic, but what books would you recommend reading regarding the soviet union and WW2?
Start with Overy's "Russia's War" (only problem is it should be called "Soviet's War"). I would normally recommend "Ostkrieg" by Fritz after that, but you specifically said you wanted stuff on the Soviet Union specifically and that's more about the kind of war the Germans were waging against the Soviets, so it's optional unless you're happy to read more about the German perspective first. After that, I'd probably recommend "When Titan's Clashed" by David Glantz. Beyond that, it's up to you :)
No worries! And John, yes but it's a good introduction to the topic, which is why I'm recommending it first. It's short sharp and sweet, and will give a very good overall view of the war, from which people can dive in deeper.
Look at the photo. The building is a salient that dominates a huge tract of open square. How could you *not* defend and hold this real estate for a long time? Also because of height for observation and fields of fire, it's a great place to put spotters, machine guns, and snipers. That by far makes it key terrain. If I was the Soviets, I would make the building into a hard-point in every way possible.
Another good read for this part of the battle is Life and Fate by Vasily Grossman. Grossman was a reporter for the Red Star during the war. Some of the details of his account are also different.
I’ve been trying to figure out who attacked the house for so long. After various map studies I thought it was the 295th but the 71st makes sense because the 295th was hugging Mamayev Kurgan along with the 100th
Yes I've recently found about the Pavlov becoming a monk, and it was 100% not Yacob Pavlov, but another soldier (Ivan Pavlov) who also fought in Stalingrad. Pavlov is a widespread surname in Russia. As for the different nationalities defending the house (this is a true fact) , it was pretty much in all the battlefields on the Eastern front. But all I can say - if the particular building is not important, it would be a dumb waste of people to defend it for so long. Stalingrad withstood because of these small house defends, and we're really lucky to not witness how terrible the real battle was. Such catastrophic wars should never repeat again...
If there was more than 24 than than means 90% of them were unarmed if we are to go by the account of 20 rifles and 8 automatics and 2 heavy machine guns.
Tbh pavlovs house was a story of a battlefield where a house stood that just never got in the list of current priorities for the Germans to shell to kingdom come. And by the time it did, the German artillery could no longer take it out. 24 russians huddled in a basement not really doing anything useful is 24 Russians taken out of play. Sadly for the Germans it came to be somewhat important later, but you can hardly blame them at that point.
Great video and very informative. Pavlov's House was the Soviet's version of the Alamo....just remember history repeats itself, but sometimes in another part of the world.
