I am always astounded how many people don't seem to understand that Dr. Peterson doesn't "interview" he has conversations and is kind enough to invite us to listen
If I heard correctly Dr Peterson is known for talking 'God'. If my recollection is correct Dr Peterson also supported Palestinian expulsion. If this is correct I would conclude that Dr Peterson doesn't know the ways of justice or the way the Son of Yahuveh taught his followers. But who is the God of this world?
Christendom has had a series of revolutions and in each one of them Christianity has died. Christianity has died many times and risen again; for it had a God who knew the way out of the grave. G.K. Chesterton
That's upside down and backwards. Christianity has destroyed people ang groups all over the world, most notably the Jews whom it spent 1600 years trying to eliminate. But the Jews have risen again.
@@thinkwhileeatingpasta5217 to some degree, yes. But he is also seeking to get more facets of the story extracted from other people. And 5 pages is not enough for this story 🙂
@@thinkwhileeatingpasta5217 the first conversations Peterson does with someone usually are that way. Around an hour fifteen in , the fishing talk was about all I noticed new to him. People like Vervaeke or Pageau who he’s had a few talks with is when the new stuff usually comes out.
Maybe spirituality was the first excuse a parent found when caught getting high by their kids. All this denial of free will, determines a very complex human in need of medication to cope with its stories. Who thought of this! Cheers🥂
@peterbelanger4094 If you were as intelligent as Peterson or Dawkins, that would be a lovely conversation to have with you. Unfortunately your question shows you don't have the sophistication to navigate those topics.
One of the best back and forth eye to eye conversations, I hear thus far on Dr. Petersons Podcast. Lots of active listening on both sides, and that the guest ask clarifying questions of Dr. Peterson was great. At times it was hard to tell who‘s podcast it was 😀👍 Fantastic.
Only five minutes in and I already have a flood of thoughts. First of all, the title of Jamie’s book makes me smile. It is in reference to the “wise thrush” in Robert Browning’s poem “Home Thoughts From Abroad:” “Lest you think he never can recapture that first, fine, careless rapture!” And then with regard to the death of God, I do think we moderns don’t realize the extent to which the Great War broke humanity, as a whole. It was the first mechanized war. Through my study of some of the literature of the time period… and I’m not an expert but I studied with professors who were… I saw the societal and spiritual breakdown of our collective psyche, and I don’t think humanity has ever really recovered. Thus, “the death of God” because it seemed there was no sense to be made of such mass catastrophe. And then when I think of Zarathustra lamenting the death of God, his entire monologue a shriek of centuries of anguish, I think of the two on the road to Emmaus, who were weeping and lamenting the death of God, but God was walking right beside them in the person of Our Lord. And I think that the same applies today. God walks with us even when our eyes are holden and we do not know. I was reading Robert Frost’s autumnal poem “In Hardwood Groves” to my kids, and I was struck by the thought that the rhythms and patterns of nature are a way to understand the cycles of human history. And so “the death of God” could be the death of the leaves that “must go down past things coming up”. And that is the only way for Resurrection and a new season to come. “However it is in some other world, I know it is this way in ours.” With Ruth Anne’s love
Thoroughly enjoyed this whole conversation and have quite a few more books that have been added to my book list! My biggest take away is a reminder to have faith that life is fundamentally good and that good cannot be reduced to your emotional state within this hedonic realm, because beneficial things can be painful and harmful things can feel pleasurable.
Peterson is really intelligent if he read and mentioned for the past minutes, Mircea Eliade, a romanian writer and historian that has the most complex explanations for the human spirituality❤ amazing. thank you
St Augustine, Dr of the Church knew: Our hearts are restless until they rest in God, who is truth itself. May everyone reading this have a blessed day.
<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="3000">50:00</a> - If you had a desire for power, decision making revolving around it would leave wreckage, due to the lack of empathy mentioned above. So if a person always wants to leave you in a wreckage, rats showed that on unfair playing grounds (lost more then 33 percent of the time), makes the behavior not "playful" and the rats stopped playing. Showing that with free will, if your will imposes on others, they won't want to be apart of your reality. <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="3300">55:00</a> - Jordan is talking about when people are accepting of others, they worked together and progressed faster. Also how much more significance people find in decisions when found together then by yourself. <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="3480">58:00</a> - If you were to love your enemy and be okay with at least hearing their view would give you insight to the polar opposite opinion, if they were playing by the same set of variables. <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="60">1:00</a>:00 - Talking about dark triad traits are 5 percent of this representation of people, that have amplified strength through social media platforms and being anonymity. Opens a portal of mass communication through these cracks of society and these negative behaviors. Which is manipulating behaviors, of people who wouldn't normally exude these traits normally. <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="64">1:04</a>:00 - Jordan faces the opposite critic that is trying to impose that religion can be confining and also be taken over by these evil traits (which has happened in history). People can relate and push a narrative of these negative behaviors on religions due the opposite contrasts. He also talks about people with lower agreeable personality traits (woman tend to be higher on agreeableness), makes them very exposed to tactics used by dark personalities. It's becoming a massive problem for society due to the learnt traumas being formed on these people, due to the parasitic nature of the behaviors. <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="67">1:07</a>:20 - With everyone having a flat playing field where no strengths are highlighted, in society, it can be viewed as offensive to call out "evil" behavior (irony), due sensitivity reasons. (ooooooooo). This creates a messy society that allows criminals to create mass confusion where it's impossible to be held accountable. Since you can't also call it out, how can anyone doing something bad be stopped. <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="70">1:10</a>:00 - Also when you don't get stopped in your tracks when you are down a path of temptation, YOU WON'T STOP YOURSELF. (Tea boiling) People usually regulate to good behavior because it has a natural path of lighting others up and creating a positive sense of meaning derived from the reinforcements of expression that others project to you. <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="73">1:13</a>:00 - Even though there can be competitive grounds with others, a part of the game is being able to win and lose. It's that playful aspect that makes the game itself attractable. But the game can be ruined when people involve manipulative pseudo behaviors to the game, that grow advantages and then the person justifies a obvious 1 sided game. (DAAAAMMMM). When people find out of manipulative tactics, they will lock onto it very fast and will hold you to that behavior. <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="76">1:16</a>:20 - Talking about how in society there are people who bring superior analytical information to the world which is over saturated. Then if someone who comes forward with superior spiritual information should not be taken out. Jordan goes on how its necessary that both of these figures rise to balance each other out. You constantly need this balance and tilt behaviors in either direction when it tips to far on one side. <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="79">1:19</a>:00 - Talking in societal decisions, when to take the direction to the other side when things become unbalanced. But now in corporate, CEO to Worker was <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="1801">30:1</a> and is now 3<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="1">00:1</a> pay ratios (10 x uptick, when is it changing). Ideologies also becoming very out of touch and blown to much into direction. one? <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="80">1:20</a>:40 - How should these ideologies be approached and when things become to in favor of one side? It's a problem if accumulation of goods becomes more and more scarce and 1 sided. Once you get wealth, that doesn't necessarily means that the person did good things to get that money and knows what to do with that money. <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="83">1:23</a>:00 - Jordan getting spicy about how small scale experiments had too much impact on large scale models. And to have a model that accounts for all problems to be well thought out for long term consequence. It's very important to have polarizing approaches to any situation because you should not make policy on biased side of the equation. <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="85">1:25</a>:40 - Psychological stability/growth and associated interactions that emerge from those principles should be taken with decision making. Even if you don't necessarily have a inclination to help others, it goes along the lines "treat others how you want to be treated". <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="87">1:27</a>:45 - Talking about how greed can absolutely destroy you as a human. If you do not contain the separation of wealth/greed, there is always a price to pay for the source of that perceived wealth (nothing comes free in life, think about the consequences). <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="89">1:29</a>:30 - Talking about if you find sanctity in a ideology that ultimately holds you accountable to be noble and good, Jordan can relate to those principles to that as a Christian. Some ideologies only talk about one side of a polarization and if the ideology at least outlines a positive, you don't necessarily have a complete understanding of all the evil. <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="92">1:32</a>:50 - If you were to follow more of a intellectual ideology, at least you have to understand that a person who just seeking/projecting painful/negative outcomes, then its important to call them out on that.... (TRUEEEEEEE) Also going on the opposite spectrum if you were to support positive behaviors that hold people to a better standard of living then it brings you in alignment to the same beliefs as a religion.
Consciousness is not enough - Christ-love, Christ-acts, Christ-peace, Christ-faithfulness etc.... "christ consciousness" sounds like New Age honeyed simplicity.
@@peterbelanger4094 perhaps not , but imagine for a moment- what you would feel like if you had 10 million dollars in your bank account every day , and you had the job of giving that away
But both Abraham and Moses did not want to do this alone (go out) Abraham chose Lot and Moses got Aaron because of their reluctance to do the thing required alone. I think God chose them because they were not control freaks trying to take over the world. They were humble in His hands. And look at what is ruling or trying to rule us now. God said he would give us the leaders we deserve - time for repentance I think.
He gets too religious, he loses me on this "god" stuff. I just get angry when people speak of this "god" entity. What do they see that I can't? What am I excluded from that I can't find? I don't think this "god" exists!!!! It's juts a lie people tell themselves to cope with the knowledge of their own mortality. "God" is just a cope. "God" is fiction.
The more I have look and tried to find this mythical entity, the more it has eluded me. I don't think this "god" character actually exists. You people are delusional. There is no "god".
This guys main concern is that people are reverting to fundamental Christianity to find meaning and purpose in their lives. Bad people will use that for evil. Most people are not becoming Christian to hurt people. They want their lives and the lives of those they love to be good. To group in people who want to go to Latin mass or who believe in fundamental Christianity with psychopathic manipulators is terribly irresponsible (in the most charitable light).
Very true. It is evident there are manipulators, which is why the new testament speaks and warns about it so much. No other system is free of this same problem, certainly not secularism.
His insistence that Christian Nationalism is scarier than Woke confused me. People are becoming more religious but, the people attracted to the Christian Nationalist movement seems to be a small number - and they control no institutions whatsoever
@@johnowens5342 Certainly not secularism. Yes exactly. This is a fundamental problem of the human condition. It’s not about Christianity per se. And to attribute it to Christianity obscures the larger point and aims the ire at Christians particularly.
summary of jordan's philosophy: 1. the spirit of adventure 2. the optimal game of maximum participation and maximum duration. 3. an implicit moral order is in the optimal game. to learn more read his upcoming book "the spirit of adventure and the infinite game" just roughhousing
"god" is not even a word that can be defined. I have no idea what people are talking about when they speak it. Some fantasy? Get real children, there is no "god".
The LIGHT that this conversation sheds at this very late hour is profound. I would love to listen to Jordan's exposition on the relationship between true LIGHT, LIFE, and LOVE.
Finally it happened, not even my whining uterus will stop me from watching this tonight. 2 highly, highly intelligent people, getting at it ... What a time to be alive 😍🤩🎉
Jesus said to him, “I am the [only] Way [to God] and the [real] Truth and the [real] Life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.’' - John <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="846">14:6</a> AMP
Wester civilization, USA and progress were build by old Christians and a few young atheist that lather got older and become the present day old Christians. A majority of atheists will create a Sheol on earth that wants the liberty of democracy on steroids, because even old demons want more liberal liberty after all more freedom more chances to do evil.
LOL, no, I'm not going to live by some cryptic words out of an old outdated BOOK. You people actually worship that BOOK, as if it were an idol. That BOOK sucks!!!! It's unreadble, it makes no sense and contradicts itself. One would go crazy hyper-analizing trying to find "messages from god"
@@peterbelanger4094 What do you mean "You people!"? Are you afraid of the free will of others? Should we all be your slaves thinking just like you mien Fuhrer?
@@peterbelanger4094You'll sooner go crazy trying to invent a map of life without any sort of foundation upon which to build your pathway forward. I think that approach lacks both foresight and insight, both of which you can take from ancient wisdom, whether you believe the literal stories or accept them as allegorical.
Adding words that weren't included in the original transcription obscures the point, it doesn't expand upon it. Our sociological contexts ought not be imposed upon the writings of ancient cultures, rather we ought to learn about the culture. The clarity comes with the context.
Dearest Dr. Peterson, you spoke very well indeed at the event yesterday. I can’t tell you how happy it made me to see you completely surrounded by people who love you, getting all the hugs, and getting to speak and to listen, all the while looking so well and so healthy. It looked like your day did you all the good in the world, just as I prayed that it might. You needed that. I was so moved to see you praying the Lord’s Prayer with Russel because the last time I saw you pray that it was in a prayerful video you made when you were so desperately ill, and your face a mask of suffering, but your spirit shining through the brokenness of your body. And now you are well again, thank God again and again for it. It was a blessed Michaelmas. I did my bit at home to rescue the republic. I brought my kids to church. I took them for a long autumnal walk and we picked flowers and berries and threw rocks in the river. I snuggled them and read to them from their children’s Bible. I made a big pot of chicken soup from scratch to feed them homemade food. And I watched the live stream event all day. I would have liked yo be with you all in person but for now, I was content to be with you in spirit. With Ruth Anne’s love
Good morning Jordan and Jamie Exactly all of this. Resonates a whole lot with me and my continued challenges of old and indeed bloody brand new. A wee bit unbelievable to me how many situations seem to be repeating both within the micro and macro levels of chaos right now. However strangely grateful for it regardless of its crazy repeating situations. In short. God knows I require a new mountain to not be pushed to jump from but to perhaps leap from and towards. After finally leaving my previous nursing post and starting a new nursing role only four weeks ago. I know this new challenge is not for me and sadly a bit of a waste of my time and energy. Soul destroying in all honesty. Anyways truly grateful for your again shared conversation. Sanity sensemaking brain gym, indeed. Thank you. 💜
When Jordan describes the effect of anonymity, I can't help but think the proliferation of masks into society during the pandemic must have, by definition, exacerbated this negative quality.
An interesting discussion, as is so often the case on Mondays and Thursdays on this channel. However, it was hard to grasp what Jamie Wheal is about. He kept asking Dr Peterson questions, almost as if he didn't really want to express his own views. There was just that hint of him wanting to undermine Dr Peterson in some way. He also failed to grasp the danger posed by the progressive left and SJW types who seem to control academia and the institutions. Those types try to push the solid centre to the fringes, and pull the fringes to the centre. Societal collapse is the logical conclusion of that, and decline in population. Jamie Wheal's tone was just a touch mocking when he spoke of attending Dr Peterson's public lecture in Texas. It wasn't a case here of Dr Peterson talking too much, it was that his guest was reluctant to tell us what he really thinks. I wonder if the guest revealed more of himself on the DW side ?
Why the ten commandments? Because they were the fundamental definition of how to "love thy neighbor". Jesus summed it up when he said loving the Lord and thy neighbor were the whole message of the law and the prophets.
I've come to understand God as the universe itself without being limited by that. God is reality and truth while also being the fundamental order those things are built upon.
Jordons glorious suits are a perfect metaphor of a serpentine shedding of its old skin, death and renewal, driven by unresolvable existential tensions, so why not explore everything and see what comes up
I prayed to take the sins of this dark world as my own, low and behold it was so powerful and heart felt that it brought Christ back to life. God is good and he saw I was good.
I was atheist. One day (March 1995) I say to myself "There's a waste of time to think about God that doesn't exist. We must explain what exists". The next day I became a believer. The universe exists, life exists. What is the goal of life? Ask the first microbe in the universe and you will find the answer. The goal of life is TO BE. The only way to reach the goal is to overcome all the dangers in the universe, the goal is an Almighty being ruling over the universe. Atheism means to give up, atheism means to be against life. Revelation <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="68">1:8</a> explains the goal of life.
Wheal did his best to get Peterson to admit at least partial responsibility for the far right crazies, a favorite tactic of the elite left. Jordan parried him with ease. Jordan's vocabulary has moved to a new level, now combining rigorous, cutting edge scholarship in his field with an ever deeper understanding of the wisdom of the ages. He's the most articulate intellectual in public life today. Wheal talks like an upper class technocrat speaking to members in an ESG corporate boardroom with Klaus Schwab at the head of the table.
<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="77">1:17</a>:20 turning points outward to protect enrich enlighten empower the mountain spring, is much more proficient then turning them inwards to force crushed jewels. Love always - the lawnmower man … hooo wiiil saave the soul
Здравствуйте доктор Peterson. Discrimination, Wikimitization, when will this ignorance end? It is very difficult to create a family with harmony in that situation.😢
Thank you Jordan! Your powerful insight at Rescue the Republic rally nailed it!!! Sacrifice=the strait and narrow way to LIFE Power=the wide gate and broad Way to destruction Matthew <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="433">7:13</a>-14, Luke <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="804">13:24</a>👏👏👏
Don’t confuse human imperfection and failures as any indicat of a failed God or the belief in him… Humans will screw up a one man marching band … it’s actually shocking we are able to function at all.. DON’T BLAME GOD FOR OUR CROSS TO BEAR
If a government official asks your company to comply with something that is immoral and unconstitutional, then by all means, you should 100% NOT COMPLY. The real problem is that most people don't understand what is and isn't immoral and unconstitutional.
The idea of positioning the 10 commandments back into the public forum, whatever that looks like? Schools, courtrooms etc. The first 2 commandments if mastered eliminate the following 8... commandment #1: Love the Lord your God with all your heart, strength & mind the 2nd is like it, love your neighbor as yourself! Sacrifice of self to honor our neighbor... Steeling, killing, adulterers etc! As mentioned, the other 8 become obsolete!
It's Gods Holy Spirit that has the power to pierce the fortresses built in the minds of people, making plain, the truth;..the rejection of which is painful to all who posses the Spirit. Men speak words to bring attention to our need for God....other men speak words of denial. It's a war for our souls. A war for humanity......God is indestructible and his Truth is the bedrock of creation. A free will must chose.
This conversation has sparked my eagerness, knowing that Jordan is now just one step away from interviewing Daniel Schmachtenberger. It will be one to behold.
Dr. Peterson, I’ve been a long time listener of you. I’ve posted many comments reaching out. How does someone who’s not socially high up have a conversation with you. I don’t ask for a lot in this life, and it would be a blessing the be able to talk. I’ve been on a crazy path of self discovery and growth. I also grew up without a father figure and believe that’s why I gravitate towards you as an ideal. Anyways I know this is another long shot, but worth it. Have a great day Jordan!
Every time I listen to someone like Jamie Wheal, Jordan Hall, or Daniel Schmachtenberger talk to someone like Jordan Peterson, Eric Weinstein, or John Vervake I think to myself: thank goodness they said the thing that needed to be said in my estimation of this present-moments necessities, because lord knows I didn’t want to have to say it. And I follow all these guys in hopes that one day after they’ve all cross talked to each other for years the truth that points to The Truth will be uttered in English and I won’t have to speak to anyone on what I believe I know is missing now because these fine fellows have it all covered more or less in regards to the articulation of an ultimate-unity truth. Does this mean I can stop obsessing over my obsession and enjoy life with overthinking existential information to the point of puns preaching to the people that already intuit the truth as a life well lived but don’t care to taint their brains with topics such as these because it makes living a life well into a thought experiment rather than a lived experience. Maybe it’s only funny in name but not effect? I know I don’t enjoy reminding myself how long I spent being devoted to a functional fiction…
And good Dr. Peterson, our current education system especially the public one is geared, via homework making grades = advancement, for the advancement of females specifically across the west, and the very meritous who would otherwise rise and be Great Men basically get shoved into the gutter.
Anonymous users of social media platforms can't be held accountable for what they do but it works both ways, the platforms can't be held accountable for when they suspend users' access to having a voice.
<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="91">1:31</a>:00 - God wasn't. He allowed more than what should have happened to Job to happen to Job to prove that He hadn't unjustly erected a barrier around Job. It's actually demonstrating that Job was meritorious because he did what was right, not the other way around, which is what people at the time Job was written believed. God comes in at the end and restores Job because He was satisfied with the point having been made. The point of the story isn't what happens to Job but why it happens. Also yes, "ha satan" is the same thing as Satan. This is a misunderstanding. Often villains in the Old Testament are not named by their true name, or are called a nickname. This is kind of a cheeky form of censorship to show those characters aren't worthy of full recognition in the text. It happens with certain rulers and other people. The context and God reversing what has been done to Job at the end make this clear, as do references to Satan in other areas of the OT.
"Most Americans believe in demonic possessions" J.P: Because all they need is to watch their politicians ( I assumed most democrats ones). Couldn't be any better answer.
Jordan needs to know that, while Christmas is the assigned day to acknowledge the birth of our Savior, he was actually born in the autumn. In that part of the world, shepherds are not in the fields in the dead of winter. Their attendance in Bethlehem had more to do with gathering for the Feast of Tabernacles (Sukkot) -- during the fall harvest season. Not wise to use analogies based on misconceptions, as Jordan does when he states that Christ was born at the "darkest time of the year". As a relatively new convert to Christianity, Peterson should spend more time in the Word before drawing conclusions from a currently shallow understanding. I trust he will spend more time with those more deeply schooled in Scripture as time goes along. I love him for all else he brings to the table in the country's time of need.
<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="394">6:34</a> is the first moment - excluding the coming up period - where we hear your guest speak. <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="447">7:27</a> you do a cut scene for an ad. Jordan, there aren’t more bigger fans of you than I am. A word of advice from your supporters and rabid consumers of your content. Let your guests be the focus of your episodes, or else do one of your famous lectures, and… Ask. Briefer. Questions.
The idea of unifying principles is one that I've toyed with for a while. If you leave God behind, what is it replaced with? Power leaves behind those without power and depraved culture. Non-unification creates anatchy
I do appreciate Peterson viewing the christian worldview through the lens of psychology. To me, it always seems he views God through the ontologcal premise of being a maximally great being and that He is more of a goal rather than a friend. I always think of the what C.S. Lewis said on morality and I'm paraphrasing here. Morality isn't a quest for individual enlightenment it is instructions for all of humanity. What good does it do to point out a ship is sinking when there are those not in formation with the rest? What good does it do to say an instrument is out of tune when there are some not in harmony with the rest? While those are deep questions on there own. The bigger questions are where are we sailing to? And who are we playing for?
At around an hour into this what I realized about Wheal, the thing that, however intelligent and serviceably affable he is, all the same instinctively repels me is: he's a snob. He is burdened with an intrinsic, pervasive snobbery, a need to prove who he's superior to, that permeates everyting he says with a sourness, that instantly triggers my antipathy and desire to be nowhere near him. It's like that feeling you get from a person who grins at you with a clownlike exaggerated toothy smile but... there's zero smile in the eyes, even worse, you sense some hidden purpose in that gaze. That's the feeling he gives me.
<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="3180">53:00</a> - It's a re-individualization of play also, because you get to decide who did the best that time. Competition holds up the person who performed as a model to imitate next time. It's a strictly human innovation so of course it had to serve some overarching purpose besides dominance.
This quite literally may be one of the most important discussions I have ever witnessed in the entirety of my life thus far!! Just incredible absolutely incredible
"Not my first rodeo" exactly. You only need to see that crap one time before you see it everywhere. Practically enlightenment. But try being the bad guy around a bunch of people who have never seen that darkness.
<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="63">1:03</a>:00 good question from Jamie, but we need an answer on that. How to articulate the truth in a way that the highest values are reached by humanity. Evil is lurking in the corner...
Sometimes during this interview you can feel that JBP and his guest are not well knowledgeable on what they are talking about. They are not used to the hot topics within the protestant world when it comes to dynamics between law and grace, the importance of both the beatitudes and the decalogue for christian. Jesus himself said he came not to abolish the law but to accomplish it and this has led to a whole interpretation streams since the first day of Christianity. Moreover, these dynamics are also pervasive in the revelation book. The thematic of power and its problematic and his solution for this fallen world are also well encapsulated in this book.
I am at <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="996">16:36</a> minutes into the podcast. The guest uttered seven sentences... I am going to google Jamie to look for a talk or interview and listen to what he has to share.
