18th century: A rich man can afford a pineapple 🍍, a poor man can afford a salmon 🐟. 21st century: A rich man can afford a salmon 🐟, a poor man can afford a pineapple 🍍.
For the rich man's feast, I half expected to see Jon dressed in fancy clothes (as in the thumbnail), sested at a table with at least one person in the background serving or clearing away the plate after each food was sampled. Having worked in a ritzy hotel's dining room as a waitress, I can tell you a whole army of chefs, sous chefs, cooks, and other prep people were involved.
I was curious if there were going to be more references to historical fashion creators. They would have NO issue showing off exactly how much work goes into an outfit
2:44 It is perhaps worth noting that George III was known as a fairly frugal man with modest tastes and a tendency to relatively informal habits in his private life. Perhaps this might partially explain why this list is filled with fairly common items.
I'm so glad you did this episode; it explains why my Mother-in-Law, who grew up poor on a tobacco farm in the South during the Depression, would be so proud of providing for special company 9 different vegetable dishes (plus the main dishes) for her table.
Being southern myself, it was a form of hospitality and making sure that if anyone leaves hungry it was their own fault. Putting on the dog has nothing to do with it.
@@gidget8717Or why people of older generations might consider a place like Olive Garden fancy. Modern cuisine's focus on quality and being in season with small, curated menus is very recent
@@TheSkyline77 additionally, with spices and such being so common and accessible, fancy cuisine forgoes most all of them for rare or local variants of ingredients and substituting fresh herbs for dried spices (because now having the space and time for growing formerly "poverty" ingredients (garlic eater used to be an insult) can often be a luxury)
@@LBJshowedmehisJit's still fascinating that even the cheapest and most "poor" level computer is eons beyond the tech that the richest of the 18th century had
I once had dinner in the House of Lords here in the UK (I'm not a politician, I was there as a guest of someone who ran a successful charity), and there were a whole lot of courses, but all your food was brought to you on individual plates. A member of the house I got chatting to did say that historically, the food wouldn't have been served to people individually, but laid on the table for people to take for their plate since it prevented the opportunity for targeted poisonings to happen. If you poisoned a dish, everyone would have an equal chance of falling victim to it.
The traditional feast for Christmas and Easter in my country is simplified "French serving" I now realise. We call it The Cold Table. You usually have 4-5 servings, each a full table. Less extravagant than the parties of the video, but same concept. And yes, it does take 4-5 hours for such a meal. 1. Fish and egg servings. 2. Bread with sliced meat, toppings, spreads. 3. Warm dishes. 4. Some special dish. 5. Cheese, grapes, crackers, ect. Or desserts. (6. Tea, portwine, chocolate).
@Kehy_ThisNameWasAlreadyTaken Denmark. It is sometimes called smorgesbord in English, but that is a Swedish word and concept which is more of a buffet. It is different from the Danish one.
That's how I handle Christmas dinner here in the United States as well. I've just gone through a whole month of preparation, parties and activities. I'm exhausted and have no desire to do any more than I must. So I set out something like this and people wander by when hungry and eat as they please.
I'd love to see something like this when you have the whole "village" together, and could have something of a crew working to make a whole meal for everyone. Maybe at a time of year you could source a lot of things easier (maybe from farmers markets, etc.) like summer-fall, where you could prepare a feast like this, but having more people, more resources, more hands, and more mouths to actually eat all of the food in the feast. Imagining something like a thanksgiving feast for everyone.
Comparing this to Tasting History's videos on things like the Shoguns and Roman Emperors' feasts, it's interesting to see how for most of human history and even across cultures the point of food for elites was seemingly always to show off rather than fully enjoy everything. Unless you enjoyed flamingo tongues or creamed spinach in what would have ended up as a soggy loaf.
those dishes were meant for feast, treat, and celebration, not everyday. and yes showing off is part of feasting and celebration, even today no one cook a whole turkey at home beside the holidy
@@namleist No one cooks a whole turkey because not many families can finish without wasting. You will see some people buy tens of pounds of frozen meat when it's on sale.
Such emphasis on presentation to the point of impracticality is certainly a rather interesting concept! I wonder how many dishes would be absolute flops taste-wise like liver. I will say however that the creamed spinach in a roll is delicious and not at all soggy if you put it in a firm bread (I typically see round loaves used, though) and break off chunks to dip in the spinach. It's not too hard to make these days since good spinach, cream and bread are all readily available at the supermarket, and it'll certainly impress in both taste and presentation.
@@tenchraven Ah yes I too am a sarcastic prick when referring to a broader concept than the thing the original poster talked about in order to assert my superiority over knowing a well-known and intuitive to understand concept. It couldn't have been that I was remarking on a more specific cultural practice than just consumption and how it being expressed in multiple cultures and times is an interesting anecdote. No, it must have been that I just now am learning about the general concept of flaunting wealth. I'm sure people in your day to day life really appreciate your pedantic smugness.
Its kinda "easy" to bake icecream. You place it(the icecream) on some buttom of cake/biscuit, perhaps with a tiny layer of whipped eggwhite. Can possibly skip one of the two if you feel lucky. You then cover all of the icecream with whipped eggwhite n sugar, and you bake that til it turn to maringue. The microstructure of the eggwhite with all its tiny airbubbles wil insulate the icecream just enough that if you time it perfectly, youll have warm baked icecream with a cold center.. Om nom nom
A Capon is a rooster that has been "fixed". Similar to eunuchs and thus they get quite huge and remain tender well past the point of where a normal rooster is butchered...
Thank you for addressing that this was not a common everyday thing, but for only a few times a year. I think history shows can often times come across as all these wonderful things always are happening and they don't when they try and present a day in the life of whoever. It would be neat to see what a common dinner was for a generic day, and maybe what they would do when hosting a friend too for the rich. Keep up the good work.
It sounds like the only person who legitimately enjoyed the whole affair was the boy who got to paddle around the fountain and serve drinks. Depending on his age, I could see a young boy actually being entertained by that for hours.
9:05 "... five pounds of nutmeg..." In the far distance, through an echo of the time vortex, Jon can be heard shouting, "There's not enough nutmeg!" :) I suppose the closest thing to the idea of "a rich mans feast" you could get today, would be an all you can eat buffet, with dozens of different dishes all of which you can sample, from starters, mains and desserts.
I'm chinese and a family dinner now sounds like rich man's feast. All of the dishes in the middle of a large table and we all reach out to take our pick onto our individual empty plates, and for dishes on far side of table we usually ask person near it to pass it over.
A christmas dinner cooked by Eastern European grandparents is a pretty close one. Two long tables put together, filled with soup, meats, side dishes, pastries and cakes...
So well done, Townsends team! I’ve been wanting to hear that quote about the fountain of punch with all the lemons again! I remember first hearing it on a holiday live stream when you used to do them in front of a curtain, and it blew my mind! So much fun! So well handled. ✌️😌💜
@@pregnant9574 it's not a cooking program, Townsend's videos are a glimpse into the 18th century as it really was if you just want cooking without the history buy the art of cookery and do it yourself
A hogshead is 63 gallons. I know this because more than 2 decades ago I was in a chemistry class where the teacher asked which system of measure we would prefer - imperial or metric. We all, of course (in the US), said imperial. He says, "I tell you what - I will give you an exam testing your ability to convert units of measure - one side of the paper is imperial, the other metric. After scoring I will let you determine which units of measure we use from here on out." One of the questions was, "How many gallons are in a hogshead?" We chose metric in the end.
I appreciate the explanation of the process. Feasting for the rich seems more of a societal obligation more than the food itself, so I can see why the food would be hard to feature in an episode. For the hesitation about it, I think you nailed the spirit of the concept. That spinach dish, in particular, may feature on a Thanksgiving spread in the years to come.
I genuinely could NOT care less about the food people ate hundreds of years ago but there’s something about your channel and your personality that’s so addictive. It’s such a comforting channel and i actually learn a lot.
'Well I'm upper-upper class high society God's gift to ballroom notoriety And I always fill my ballroom The event is never small The social pages say I've got The biggest balls of all' - AC/DC
One of the reasons I love your channel is because you don’t focus on rich people. Sure, their history is interesting, but I want to know about how my ancestors lived and ate, and they definitely weren’t rich.
I think it's important to note that John's saying this was about "new money" trying to act like "old money." A true rich man's feast would've been very different. Old money relied on ancient heritage and practices. The capon would have been allowed to age for days or weeks (whole with guts), then soused (boiled in a water, salt, and vinegar solution) before baking or roasting. In between "regular" courses (as we know them), there would be what we'd call dessert courses of cakes and tarts and pies and such. Sometimes a live-looking bird (think goose or swan) would come out where a whole bird was cooked and then encased in a paste with the feathers, neck, and head of the dead bird reattached. Other times you'd have a pie that you'd cut into only to have live birds fly out. A lot of these practices dated back to the medieval times and were very much still in use by the old money rich in the 18th Century. New money rich either never had such a legacy to draw from or the financial resources to put on such displays continuously.
The US didnt draw a lot of old money elites the way it drew new money entrepreneurs - why leave a society and culture which already extensively benefits you for one you'll have to reforge a name in?
It predates the medieval times. You can read about an extravagant dinner like that in Satyricon by Petronius Arbiter, who lived in Rome almost 2000 years ago.
I really appreciate the attention Townsends pays to working people and all the different feast vids have really highlighted the various trades and lifestyles of the people. Too much of history is "Great Man" theory focused on the powerful (and often very rich) people who "shaped history." But while there have always been influential people, the history of humanity is the struggle of the working class.
The more things change, the more they stay the same. Also, poor people wanting to appear rich - that hasn't changed either. So many people driving themselves into bankruptcy in the name of keeping up with the Joneses.
@@dbmail545even rich it was an extravagance to kill a laying hen that's like killing a money printing machine, I suspect that's why they went for capons
I believe we're forgetting the amount of food waste at these dinners were legendary as it was considered rude amongst the aristocracy to "finish" what was on your plate. Portions were super tiny, super rich, and of various textures and taste profiles to even allow you to make it through several courses.
That looks absolutely amazing! Thank you for all of the hard work you do. I love this channel! It's informational but also wholesome in a way that makes it a great escape from all the drama
In Armenia (and I’d wager in many other counties too) we still set the table in the “French style”. It’s common to see in weddings, major holiday feasts, birthdays etc. a big table filled with dishes: usually roasted meat (‘Khorovats’) surrounded by side dishes, different salads, a platter of cheese and, of course, bread (lavash!). We tend to put the same dishes in each end of the table so no one has to ask to be handed something too far off. Even in traditional Armenian restaurants people usually order a plethora of dishes and just share them. I’ve only eaten dishes in consecutive “courses” (on one personal platter) in fancy restaurants haha.
Thank you for talking about the historiography around class in this. it’s a really touchy subject, but it’s so critical and a source of some significant historical misunderstanding and misrepresentation. It can be so hard for us modern average people to understand that, for most of history, “average” didn’t mean middle-class, or even working-class; it meant poor, and most people lived and died poor. And in truth, even today, middle-class isn’t the average, we are just very lucky to have inherited a place on the shoulders of giants. That’s not to say we should keep our heads down and accept our lot, in fact I think it teaches us the opposite - that our lot can be improved, both by innovation and revolution, and that wealth inequality is a weapon of the powerful
Very informative presentation. Thank you for filling in the blanks with regard to what French cuisine in America was at the time, Carême and Escoffier are a whole 'nother story. Thank you.
We are getting close to experiencing what the 18th century was in todays time. Extreme wealth or extreme poverty, there is hardly any middleground or middleclass.
Great program, as always. Very interesting seeing the rich man's feast, but it is easy making a feast for a rich man. The real challenge is making a feast for a poor man, which is why I love those programs.
In Poland we are still having more formal dinners in this style where there are dishes on serving platters put on the table and everybody takes as much as they want of the dish they want. Typically, if it is just everyday dinner for the closest familly, everybody will get a plate already filled from the kitchen, but if there is a guest over, or if it is a special occasion, then it has to be a table with serving platters and multiple dishes to choose from.
It's not quite 18th century, but when I went to Versailles in France, I was told that the dishes were so expensive that there was one servant assigned to each plate. Not each place setting - each plate. And the plate was probably worth more than the servant. 😮
I’m continually impressed by the amount of effort that goes into these videos, from the research to the cooking to the editing. You definitely don’t phone it in!
Watched this channel for a long time and also from the same area as you and i gotta say im glad to see you treat yourseld this time. You deserve that kings feast.
I have to wonder what an "average" rich man's dinner would have been like. I assume it would be some well-prepared entree and some sides, enough for the family to enjoy among themselves. The feast descriptions you outlined sound more like dinner parties, where presentation was as much part of the meal as the actual food (hence why you have a foundation with a little guy rowing around, filling drinks lol).
1:05 -- When the middle class began to expand during the early 19th century, upper class people weren't entirely sure where middle class people fit in the social hierarchy.
@@greensquall2264 There's also the fact that they were amazingly lazy, though. Soldiers eating a pound of meat every day has been covered on the channel.
I've never thought about making tarts in such a simple way. You just need a baked tart shell, some preserves, and some matching fresh fruit. I could make that in just a few minutes in my kitchen right now, and I'm not a dessert master by any stretch.
There was an American oil tycoon who had his formal dinners in his billard room at the pool table. They had long skinny sticks they used for passing pots around the table.
One of the most interesting insights about how it could look like back in XVII century is the movie Vatel (it's is filmed as drama, but there is much less drama - more like detailed depiction of technical processes performed by François Vatel).
The extravagance is reminding me of a 100 course meal Robert Ripley experienced over 3 days somewhere out in Malaysia/Indonesia area in the 1930's or 1940's.
It’s interesting how on the other side of the world, the Japanese Shogun was basically doing the same thing, with decorative food not really meant to be eaten at banquets.
The Sun King believed kingship and court splendour had to be viewed by the general population, there is no reason to have an awe-inspiring ritual if people aren't watching. So there would be a selection of Parisians at Verseilles essentially taking a day trip to gawk at it all. And not just middle class burghers but labourers and such.
That looked incredible. So, was tobacco use after dinner a thing in the time you're talking about? I just read that the Colonies cut way back on tobacco in favor of growing food during the times around the War of Independence.
I have the ultimate feast every three days I get around 1000 pounds of produce tomatoes, peppers, ginger, bananas, pineapple, cucumber, lettuce, kale carrots, flowers, vegetable plants, bread, and sometimes a little bit of meat. All I have to do is go to one person and give them a whole bunch of empty boxes, I use collapsible plastic bins and he fills up everything he cannot sell so he doesn’t have to pay for dumpsters. I bring it back to my farm and I process it. I eat when I can and then I separate what I can and try to grow what I can, or save the seeds and then everything goes back into the garden. I have the nicest garden I have seen in my area and I develop a nursery out of it. I’ve been doing this for about three years now and I must’ve met. I’m healthier I’m smarter. I’m trying to be happier, but I’ll let you know, not everything in this universe wants you to be happy about it. If you’re going to choose friends in the future, you should always have them as business partners and they are always richer than you because it’s always nice to be on the receiving end I tried to make the ones that are my friends that don’t have as much would be the plants in the trees. That’s why I’m constantly trying to feed them and nurture them and duplicate them so they could have more plants more babies.
In Australia bread is more expensive than leg of lamb, lamb shank, beef brisket and twice the price of chicken. It would be incomprehensible for 18th century people.
I cook a lot and one of the main things I really want to do a side-by-side test on is whether stuffing a chicken with aromats does anything. I am currently convinced it is a waste of ingredients.
It's amazing how today a working class person in a developed country can eat better than kings and emperors did a couple hundred years ago. For everything wrong in the world take a moment to appreciate the things you do have.
Indeed.. people dont know how good they have it. Everybody complains about being 'poor' but it's really just jealousy and thus a dysgenics crisis.. nobody in the west is poor. everybody has a smartphone, internet, TV, microwave, dishwasher/washing machines, AC, safe and warm homes, comfy beds, most have a car or cheap available transportation.. clean water, safe and plentiful food.. all results of the economic systems we have had in the last centuries.. which is the same system some people ironically blame for how 'bad' they have it.. not sure you agree but it's just something I thought about
@@Your-Least-Favorite-Stranger Sure but sorry to say homelessness nowadays is mostly a social (drug) and mental health issue. Not so much outright poverty.. If drugs weren't so common not as many people would end up living on the streets.. We can still agree they need help and everything but I still don't believe it's due to objective poverty
There's a British comedy series about food through the ages and they cover the food of the French Revolution: from the kings down to the poor. Look up "The Supersizers Eat... The French Revolution". The amount of excess in the French royal court is kind of obscene.
