@@cowel8734 That was kind of my point. From Alma Mater (i.e. your school). That is to say: she was nourished/from White. Just seemed fitting for a white supremacist.
Honestly, it sounds like they responded to their past in a really mature way, where a lot of other groups or institutions would try to cover it up. Props to them
The question is: Is what they have cited in support for their previous position in the bible or not. I found most churches (and Christians) to be dishonest on this. It's quite shocking once one realizes this.
@@metapolitikgedanken612 Their interpretation of Shem, Ham and Japheth was cited by other Christians in the past also, but it is not supported by the Bible.
@@Mojo32 That's like getting a new name or secular identity when you get baptized. You can run from your sins all you want, but they will still remain until washed away by God.
@@cedarwaxwing3509 The term "woke" is a subjective terminology that can vary and morph. I hate that term because it is an elusive delusion of self-grandeur.
@@thomasc9036 OK …. Not sure I understand “elusive delusion of self grandeur” in the context of your dislike of the word, but I certainly agree that it is a word that I wish had never been coined, mainly because it has been weaponized by right-wingers to smear any action or effort to accept people as they want to be accepted. It’s become a derisive (and incorrect) synonym for “tolerance” and the idea of leaving people or groups alone to live their lives as they are comfortable with or taking up for themselves when persecuted.
@hasan Jesus was not ambiguous about who He is. He forgave sins (which only God) can do. He declared that he would judge the world for its sins. Only God may render final judgment.
So my roommate and friend from college grew up in that church. We had many talks about the crazy backstory to Zarephath. As an Evangelical Charismatic myself, they have completely changed. Probably a lot like an E Free church now. There are stories of tunnels underground connecting some of their buildings. Crazy stuff. This year, I have realized time and time again, what you believe will shape the outcome of your choices, whether it is conscious or not.
Christians are not racists. "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature" (Mark 16:15, KJV). When the Lord Jesus Christ SAID "every" creature, He MEANT "every creature"--blacks as well as whites.
@@davidlafleche1142 you mean Christians in general right? Because there are definitely some people who wholeheartedly believe in the Christian Bible, and are also undeniably racist.
@@Numbabu Christians could never be racists. I even wrote a story about an interracial relationship ("Catch a Falling Star"--homepage/about). Roman Catholics could be racists (i.e., the Irish and Italians in Boston), but never Christians.
@David Lafleche Racism is the low hanging fruit of bigotry. IF some denomination accepts interracial congregations, it doesn't free them from recognizing the issues OF racism and it's history in this country and, honestly, the world. From racial bigotry to anti-semitism to any of a HOST of other rejections of ethnicity, culturalism, creed, and sexuality, religious fundamentalism stands at the heart of bigotry of each and every one.
@@justaguy6100 You can't judge them for the past. Funny how Biden has a racist past, but everybody ignores it; but you make up false accusations and think they'll stick.
I worked at one of their Christian schools in California. I had no idea about their past until a high school student told me to look it up. Quite fascinating. How diverse the school was , I would never have guessed about it's racist past. I enjoyed your video and seeing Pillar of Fire's history played out.
@@justaguy6100 My race is human. My creed ? I don't even know what you mean by that. Creed sounds like an irrelevant excuse for exclusion of others. Frank Zappa once said " The only difference between a church and a cult is that a church owns more real estate " Can't argue with that. Others have said the only difference between a church and a cult is 150 years. Can't argue with that either. I personally feel the only difference is one of perspective, from inside, it always looks like a church, political party, corporation, union,trade group, army, even a ' social reform movement '. But from outside the organization, it's always painfully obvious that it is just another chaos spewing cult.
@@sciencedavedunning3415 I like Zappa. And maybe you personally have no racist or religious bigotry. It's possible for individuals, I'll grant that. Creed is simply another term for a religious or faith tradition, and I think it includes agnosticism and atheism, the lack of a belief in some supernatural agency. I'm wondering from your comment if, by including a "social reform movement" among the organizations you listed, you feel that identifying an issue and describing it that is somehow just more cultish chaotic behavior. My view of that would be it's so broad based that even sitting where you sit and admonishing the rest makes your position equally cultish and chaos-spewing. I mean by that, the metric is too vague. It sounds like, and do expand on my explanation if you feel I haven't grasped your meaning well enough, at any point where you establish a beachhead of some organized thinking, whether religious, political, militaristic, or from social concern (in theory also political but I'll separate it) then it's a cult. And without a tighter definition of your position then it seems to imply that establishing an external observational critique of any social construct and it's potential or real harm is establishing the ideological groundwork for a cult. AND of course, among these social constructs, religion is unique in that it demands absolute adherence based on faith, belief in lieu of proof and don't ask for proof either. Also, don't judge results. The benefits of community and the comfort that faith gives some people is worthwhile, but the bigotry and stigmas it can be very harmful, especially when it bleeds into political and governmental systems. THEN it is a powerful tool of oppression. To me, ignoring that just to avoid being another voice doesn't track with my conscience.
Dude, I always appreciate your videos. Informative, well-researched content. As someone that loves theology, the church, and history, I always look forward to new stuff from you.
Christians are not racists. "Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God" (Matthew 5:9, KJV). It's likely that those fakers were/are Freemasons, not Christians.
I do not recall ever hearing any of this before, fascinating. Thank you for straightforward and comprehensive information without prejudice. I'm always desirous of historical knowledge of all things concerning Christianity in the USA but, also, as it has manifested in other countries. Your efforts are a valued resource.
Well...it's so ugly as Christians, so hard to be open about it. There were few SBC pastors who "encouraged" killing Charles Spurgeon due to his stance against slavery. The reality is that while the Pillar of Fire may have had unbiblical stances, the denomination was extremely charitable to battered women and poor blacks. We need to look at it from a historical context. KKK was holding massive rallies in NYC back then and many people didn't know about the violent actions.
It's sad when such terrible ideas were attached to being a follower of Christ. Nonetheless, it's good to see when those ideas are repented of publicly. May the Lord draw a straight line with what was once a crooked stick.
It's what happens when sinful people (which we all are) add their own human ideas to a sinless Christ! NO single denomination is 100% correct (even the one I am said to "belong" to). Whenever humans add their interpretations, things get convoluted. The main thing is, that Jesus Christ stands in our middle. That we acknowledge Him as our only savior and redeemer, True man and True God, send by the father, from the father to redeem humanity unto himself by dying on the cross for our sins, passing through and overcoming death itself, so that ALL that believe in him shall have everlasting life! It's about People finding to Jesus Christ, regardless how they experience or understand Him. ALL other things are just man-made gibberish!
Unfortunately there are a lot of racist tares in western Christianity. Tares pretending to be Christian have been infiltrating Christian churches and bringing in a lot of satanic racist poison into the churches for a long time. Racists are not Christian, they may claim to be Christian but they are not Christian at all. They are Pharisees hindering the gospel from reaching as many people as possible. On judgement day Jesus will say to all the racist "Christian" tares, "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Satanic filth like alma bridwell white and other racist demons like her will never see heaven.
Blatant racism has been an issue from time to time with every denomination and even non-Christian religions. Racism has been particularly a point of theology with many churches coming out of the Reform tradition or those influenced by some of Calvin's teachings. The Dutch Reformed Church of South Africa, SBC, Mormons to name a few held fervently to racial superiority at some point. Other denominations have had deliberately segregated congregations.
Indeed it is a sad truth but we can not change that past, but must instead strive for both individual and collective repentance and be better than those who proceeded us lest we suffer the same fate as them
@Nemesistyx The concern was that different nations worshipped false gods. It was about mixing religions. I doubt God is concerned if a Polish Catholic marries a Brazilian Catholic; a Russian Jew marries an English Jew, or a Swedish Lutheran marries a Finnish Lutheran.
@@tomkoon4260I thought it was clear when Jesus said “So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
Wow. I have to hand it to you. You have the courage to post this. If you can. Do a nice thoughtful video about the origin of the AME Church and their positive contributions to American Christianity. That would be greatly appreciated
An interesting insight into the history of Christianity in the USA. We have certainly had our share of fringe churches, some of which have renounced the more objectionable oddities associated with their founding.
Unfortunately there are a lot of racist tares in western Christianity. Tares pretending to be Christian have been infiltrating Christian churches and bringing in a lot of satanic racist poison into the churches for a long time. Racists are not Christian, they may claim to be Christian but they are not Christian at all. They are Pharisees hindering the gospel from reaching as many people as possible. On judgement day Jesus will say to all the racist "Christian" tares, "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Satanic filth like alma bridwell white and other racist demons like her will never see heaven.
As always thanks for an articulate and balanced post. When I was growing up in NW Ohio in a "mainline" denomination, a favorite aunt was always described as having been a "holy roller." It was used in a way that led me to think it was a dismissive term that meant she came from a charismatic tradition. It was also said that her mother was a preacher so maybe there's something to it. Unfortunately anyone who could she'd any light on this has passed and I've lost the opportunity for any serious questions to be asked, but again thanks for giving me something to think about.
If supposedly that church repented for their actions and the people who were personally responsible are "long gone," then why doesn't the chirch simply change their name??
I can attest to the overall accuracy of this video with regard to the Zarephath Church. I do not know much of anything about the associated churches, including the ones outside the USA. I personally knew Rob Cruver back from when we were both young adults (late 1970's), long before he was senior pastor there, though I have not had contact with him for many years. His mom taught my eldest son in 1st grade at Temple Christian. I was disappointed with their radio station removing much of the sound biblical teaching from pastors from outside of the pillar of fire, like Alistair Begg as well as removing the hymns and replacing them with mostly contemporary "Christian" music (They use HD radio and I believe the side bands may still have some of that). I was surprised that they were able to buiid such a large edifice to worship in. I never personally attended there (my church is a stones throw away and much more modest in its trappings) but I have heard Rob preach on occassion.
@@stevenv6463 It wasn’t because of racism, God created one race which is the human race. read the verse afterwards which explains it. Deuteronomy 23:4 “because they did not meet you with bread and water on the road when you came out of Egypt, and because they hired against you Balaam the son of Beor from Pethor of Mesopotamia, to curse you.”
@@JESUS_IS_KING777_12 But doesn't this contradict the idea that everyone is put to death for their own sin? That the sin of the fathers doesn't get visited on the son?
@@stevenv6463 no it doesn’t because no one is being put to death because of the sins of their fathers nor is a father being put to death because of the sins of his son. They are just prohibited to enter the assembly. God is Holy therefore the assembly must also be Holy.
It always stupefies me how bad intent and bad ideas can twist verses to suite their ideals. This is why doctrine matters and why context is king. Revelation clearly states God’s people are from every race and every nation.
And LDS had (have) similar racist beliefs. Blacks are said to bear tbe "mark of Cain" and slavery seen as fitting for Africans/blacks. LDS reluctantly began to allow black men into their priesthood in 1978, under threat from tbe IRS to remove their tax exempt status.
@@stevedealy8571 the Pearl of Great Price, their source authority for their views of Blacks, was re-translated by a Mormon Egyptologist and found to be a fraud.
Their change from supporting to opposing polygamy, as well as their views toward Black people, were both due to "visions" by the LDS President. And both times, the Federal government influenced them (the polygamy change was so Utah could join the USA, the Black person change was after Bob Jones University lost tax-exempt status for its racist views, and BYU was the next target of the IRS).
The church had a little mission congregation on East Capitol Street in Wahington, DC in the early 1960s. The wife of the preacher was a relative of ours and we stayed in their townhouse while visiting the city. We never knew any of this history and I find it fascinating.
What an interesting piece of history! I had no idea that this lady ever lived, or the denomination ever existed. This is a good lesson for us today. We can't change our past but, by the grace of God, we can transcend it!
You may not be aware, but since Armstrong's death that church has repented and become an orthodox, trinitarian church. And yes, there were elements of racism in his teaching.
Thank you very much for your scholarship and factual, historical evidence. Well done!!! Your efforts provide me deeper, evidence based reasons for my continued atheism…
What a shame. This is why I say that speaking in tongues is not evidence of being filled with the Holy Spirit. Those truly filled with God’s Spirit are known by their fruit. If you love not, you know not God for God is love.
Speaking in tongues is considered a gift, and is a sign of the Holy Spirit. The caveat is supposed to be that, it's not beneficial to speak in tongues without an interpreter.
@@kensmechanicalaffair : Blatant falsehood. The Bible specifically speaks about praying in the spirit, which is praying in tongues, on your own with no interpretation needed. Corinthians and Ephesians and other address this issue clearly. You are in gross spiritual error.
Wow, I just happened to stumble upon this video. It is eye-opening. I never learned any of this in grade school. And they do not push this curriculum in colleges and universities. You would have to take this subject as an elective. Thanks you so much for this education.
It is unfortunate that racist elements of America’s past have been pushed under the rug for much of our history, especially religious justification for racism. It is getting better in recent years with efforts to include it in education. That’s the good news. I find the push-back to that disheartening, though. It seems that the older generations were brought up with an edited version of US history that left out much of the race-based past, and they are having to come to terms with the fact that their education was incomplete. Many of them simply refuse to believe it, reflexively assuming they are being lied to. Usually, the first phase in any adjustment to change is: denial.
@@adamprice3466 Judaism is an ethnic religion that doesn’t pretend to be for everyone. I too have an ethno-religion and we don’t go around converting non-Kikuyus to become religious Kikuyus because we understand our religion to be a binding glue for our ethnicity only. Whereas Christianity claims to be a universalist religion for everyone. “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” Seems like you want to convert Christianity into an ethno-religion, which would be hard to do give Jesus’ intended mission statement. My advice would be for you to go find out what your ethnic religion is, because your ancestors were most likely ethnic religionists before they converted to Christianity - whether willingly or not. In Europe I hear that European paganism is going through a revival as non-Christian Europeans have dropped Christianity and tried to reclaim their ancestral religions. Maybe you should look into that. I personally think ethnic-religion is superior to universalist nonsense taught by Islam and Christianity. My parents tried to raise me up to be a Christian but it always sat wrong with me that God was a white guy lol, or that a white American southerner with a sister for a wife and I were somehow praying to the same God. No way no how!
Even Peter had to be called out by Paul for his twisted religious prejudices. God's law doesn't separate saints. It separates saints from sinners. Galatians 2, 2nd Corinthians 6:14-18
I live near Cincinnati and I know people who go to one of the churches (Invictus Church). Never would’ve thought that it was founded endorsing the Klan.
You can take anything you want from any religious text, shape it in any way you want to shape it and claim it as some divine truth. I like watching these though. I need to watch some more of these on other religious beliefs.
In 1966 I stood at Hyde Park Speakers' Corner in London observing the various speech makers. It was one of the most entertaining Sunday afternoons of my life. One of the speakers was screeching behind a small black podium that said "Pillar of Fire Society" on it. He was calling down fire and brimstone upon everyone standing around. Of course, at Hyde Park, he was just one of many very entertaining speakers. But the name stuck with me. This is the first I've heard of it since. Apparently they'd been evalgelizing Brits.
Very informative. Thank you for putting out these informative videos. This is the first time I heard about this group. Thankful the original ideology is no longer a part of this group.
Truth is good. I was born into a Baptist Christian family. I then learned to read and research. Today, I stay away from religion and stay Spiritual. Afrikan Spiritual. Ubuntu Ma'at Ase'🇬🇼🇰🇪🇿🇦🇺🇸🙏🏿 Uhuru
I too have turned to read and research, and 'Christianity' should be a spiritual religion, in a spiritual church, with a spiritual communion with Christ. There is one truth and one religion in the Holy Bible, and I do sympathise with your disillusionment as there is so much false teaching and no attempt to correct errors, even in Baptist. Anyway I have a Ytube video series called 'Myths in so-called Christianity', with 23 videos you might relate to, I hope you watch because I aim to bring the truth.
Suddenly an incident that happened to me 30 years ago makes perfect sense. Back then I was a Seventh Day Adventist and was trying to convince a friend to come to church with me. She declined, saying that our founder was a racist and supporter of the KKK. I was horrified and told her that this was an obvious lie. But now that I’ve seen this video, I finally understood her position. The Seventh Day Adventist Church was also founded by a woman, one named Ellen White. Ellen White - Alma White… I can see how a mistake could’ve been made. Incidentally, I’m no longer with the SDA church, come to find out that Ellen White had a few nutty beliefs of her own.
Pillar of Fire and Zarapath NJ are not that far from where I grew up. I worked in the area for a while and always wondered what they were all about. You mentioned that they owned a large amount of acerage, I suspect much of that has been sold off and developed. there is a very large over 55 community on what was probably their property. A county park and some cooperate/ light industrial also in the area. I worked in the next town, only a couple of miles away. At the time, the road that went through their area, it was most known for flooding most times when there was a good rain.
Thanks for all your great work. NOT sure I want to post this question/comment on this one lol.....But maybe it will get more response. Not religious myself. But have read a bit about reformation/theology/religion etc etc. It seems to me that deep in the "DNA" of what's going on with the process of proliferation (disintegration?) Of Christian denominations is the doctrine of the trinity. Or rather an underlying tension. Specifically a desire to reject it. Do you/people agree? Obviously other factors...rejection of "modernism" by laity etc (we want Daniel in the sermons and don't know what you mean by "post selucids means" etc etc). Nor do I mean anything "hostile/horrible" to specific denominations. Don't necessarily agree with Machen "Protestantism is no more or less than a rebellion against Christianity. If responding please respond to the question.
Scotland? Secular? You guys tried to invade London several times because your king wore a white cockade like a pansy and the English a black one. You guys invaded the world and forced people to learn English and read the Bible. Your Scottish country men genocides thousands of natives across canada
One of the reasons why I left the SBC was because of their past with slavery in the Deep South. I find more ancient, liturgical , and historic denominations more appealing theologically anyway. I don't like these one-off revelations people get and assume they can start their own church congregations without a council, synod, magisterium, or review board of any kind. Church doctrine and practices, as well as beliefs were standardized for a reason.
You completely misunderstand what the SBC is. I'm a baptist but in England so I'm not apart of the SBC. The SBC is a collection of churches who chose to identify together with common distinctives, but the SBC isn't a denomination and holds no authority over the local church. Baptist churches have histories attached to the time of Christ (although by different names). Theological positions between baptists are also not collective, there are modern and traditional, Arminian and Calvinist etc churches within different baptist groups. In England, many non denominational, baptists groups ect were founded by those who were inspired by Presbyterians in Scotland but we're congregational because every church is apart of the catholic church, but that doesn't mean a review body should exist over every church. I hope this helps, much loved brother in Christ.
Theology is independent of liturgy and liturgy often contradicts theology, which is a form of heresy (by that I mean error, not necessarily of the damnable kind). The understanding of scripture should always be the first goal, man's traditions are to be viewed with suspicion until show to be in keeping with God's word (Colossians 2:8).
Jared, I wonder if you keep miles away from the Democrat party? Democrats were the protectors of slavery and discrimination, and the party of the KKK. Even as late as the late the 1960s, most Democrats voted against Civil Rights laws. And, now, in a different fashion, they still are obsessed with practicing racial discrimination.
This is why I am Presbyterian. We have a governing structure so that no one person can come in and do crazy stuff. Why this denomination still exists, and shares the same name, is so bizarre.
@@WHR0306 But the leadership of the Presb did nothing much to oppose the Klan. The Klan was actually stronger in the north and west, it was old hat in the south.
This does raise the question of WHY they were such avid racists in the past. The passage about Noah and his sons can't be the core of it, given how it doesn't mention skin color or race, it was added with editorial brackets. HOW did they conclude Japheth was the progenitor of the 'whites' and Ham the progenitor of all the 'blacks'. It seems there is a thread of theology and philosophy there that hasn't been discussed yet. I suspect alot of it has to do with the then booming ideas of Darwin, which has inspired most racism of the 19th, 20th and 21st century.
If they are still falsely teaching the Curse of Ham, that Black people are destined to be enslaved, then they haven’t deviated from their origins. Indoctrination in plain sight. Yes, some Black people do subscribe to this incorrect teaching of scripture. The curse of Ham was between Noah and HIS sons, NOT all humanity. Nowhere did God authorize Noah to curse all humanity. Noah could do something even Jesus didn’t do? No. If the curse was to still have power, then the Bible is a lie and Christ died for nothing.
There's no evidence even biblical that the Canaanites were in fact black they probably were Brown not black, the land of Canaan AKA Palestine has been controlled by both Semitic peoples to Jews Israelites as well as Arabs and has been controlled by the descendants of japheth which according to the Bible would include the Greeks the Persians Etc
Now Zarephath church in MANVILLE NJ is a "seeker friendly" church. Their radio station is a typical contemporary Christain station. WAWZ used have nice traditional Gospel programs back in the 1980s and 1990s. Ironically WAWZ was about the only radio station that we were able to get clear reception in our offices in Central NJ back than !
Went to school there from 69-79 and never experienced any klan activity, the church grew because much of this happened during the Great Depression and POF had food jobs. My grandfather grew up in Manville, was a Baptist, and was constantly harassed by the Catholic community that lived there so there was no love between Catholics and Protestant.it’s to bad that POF is haunted by this legacy which ended so many years ago
I'm not American, all I can say is the American Christianity seems really really strange loopy bizarre weird & wacky to me. Maybe it's just that the most extreme stuff gets noted. Maybe it's that whenever someone says they are Christian, they get seen as part of the definition of what a Christian is. Maybe we should start from a well defined definition such as what Christ taught, then measure their rhetoric & actions against that standard to see if they are what they claim to be.
@@baneofbanes Quite possibly, It's hard to tell because the ones doing the wrong thig are the loudest, getting in the public eye & big noting themselves for publicity, political advantage and so on. Presidential candidates invariably go for the Christian vote of course. On the other hand, Jesus taught his followers to do their good works in secret so that they will receive their reward in heaven. If anyone makes much of the good works publicly, they have already received their reward & will have none in heaven. So, the genuine believer will largely be unnoticed, except by those directly benefited & sometimes not even then. While Jesus did uphold the law, he introduced salvation by grace, not legalism. So, it's complicated. He taught the parable of the sheep & the goats. He also said "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." There are Christians involved in charity, often overseas aid etc & some who are not. You probably won't see that. Personally, I see no point in Christians being involved in politics, except as a voice for others, the poor, the needy , the sick and the refugee etc. It is pointless them trying to impose their morality on others, because that won't save anyone. Faith in Jesus will save them, but reluctantly obeying laws under duress will not, because the central issue of the heart has not improved, in fact it has become worse. So all that effort that the right wing church put into that achieves nothing except making people angry with them & with God. The main issue is divine transformation of the person through the indwelling Spirit who is received by faith. Once that has happened, the issue of morality is God's business & will develop naturally over a life. It cannot be imposed, but must be entered into willingly. The Church has no business forcing anything on anyone. People who do that are working against God, setting themselves up as his enemy IMO.
The Curse of Ham was limited to the Canaanites and ended with them thousands of years ago. Even if black people are decedents of Ham, this curse has never applied to them.
Not hard to see a connection between Alma White and Jack Chick. My great-granddad was a Methodist circuit rider and embraced none of the ideas of Pillar of Fire.
She wasn’t entirely wrong either on the immigrant front. Many of the governance problems faced today are linked to some of our past immigration decisions.
@@iretirotimi6961Excessive political division for one. That’s why the government has trouble getting things done. The more complicated the ethnic mix has gotten, the more civil unrest has grown.
@@phil3924 Yup. If there were only First Nation people, everything would be sorted out at a Pow-Wow over a Pipe of Peace. Those scalp-collecting bigots from Old England with their guns 'n ammo caused all the problems.
Fascinating... but this was a general view amongst most white denominations either spoken or unspoken which is why so many separate black denomination sprung up...
As long as they repented of wrong doctrine, embraced the bible and put Christ back as the center, the past will never matter, not even the human leaders and founders would matter.
Since ZIP codes didn't begin until 1963, I sincerely doubt that the church's headquarters in New Jersey in the first half of the 20th Century "...had its own ZIP code...".
