The Rise And Fall Of Pete Best (The Beatles) 

Does Roag Best run the museum?

I believe he does, I went there back in 2012 and he was running it then, whether he still does I don’t know. I believe he has set up a museum in the centre of Liverpool with Beatles memorabilia

Absolutely. Re: Paul reaching out. I don’t know his personal circumstances of course but I’ve always perceived him to let the past go. Wasn’t it only a short time before Denny Laine’s death that it was reported that they’d recently been in touch with each other?

Thanks. I’m sure there are still plenty of things to talk about 👍

And if I recall, he had a drum kit!

Yeah that fact amazed me when I found it out so I had to include it in the video. Kid of makes sense when you think about it 👍

He achieved his own success and a place in music history!

I'll check it out 👍

Thanks again!

It’s a funny thing. Would the Beatles have made it with Pete Best? Many suggest Ringo wasn’t a good drummer. I personally disagree but when you think how important Ringo became as one of the Fab Four it makes sense that he would be the correct choice.

Cheers Kev. Yeah I really must visit the Casbah next time I’m up there!

Yes if anyone were to have regrets, Pete Best would be a strong contender what with the Beatles becoming what they were. I’m glad he received credit on the Anthology project.

And so say all of us!!!

That's true. And Ringo was already part of the fabric since the Hurricanes were on the circuit at the same time, so John, Paul & George were already aware of Ringo. It's not like they plucked him out of thin air. I like George Harrison's take on it where he said that Ringo was always part of the story, it's just that he came in at a different chapter.

​​@@TudorSmithRingo was NEVER the first choice to replace Pete. Three other drummers were asked to join: 2 before Ringo was approached and 1 after they had spoken to him. At the time Ringo had a residency at Butlins with Rory Storm and The Hurricanes and only joined The Beatles b'cos they offered more money. £25 a week from memory.

You're right about Pete's popularity causing jealousy within the band, but John was the last one to join the conspiracy to sack him. George Harrison admitted in his Anthology interview that he started the conspiracy. Paul was easy to convince, except that Paul wanted to wait 'til a record deal was attained before making the switch to another drummer. Pete had such a colossal fanbase that Paul considered sacking him might pose an existential threat to the band, and they'd better have a record deal in their pockets to stoke Liverpudlian pride before they committed the betrayal. The Beatles were signed in late July of '62, with Pete's name and signature on the contract, and three weeks later they dumped him. Just six days prior to their first time in front of a TV Crew, that Pete and Mona Best had arranged to come to The Cavern to film them. That footage still exists, with Ringo on drums, ironically playing the song, *"Some Other Guy",* as fans shouted out, *"We want Pete!" As for George Martin, I'm afraid you're mistaken about that. George Martin *only* wanted to replace Pete in the studio, he explicitly told Brian Epstein that the session pro would be uncredited, that no one would ever know, and that Pete would remain the drummer doing all the live performances and appearing in all the photos, etc. The use of session drummers was the norm in that era. Martin actually sounded a bit disappointed Pete was gone, when he said, *"Pete Best had a sullen charm. I was surprised to learn that he had been replaced. Pete was the best looking Beatle, and the most marketable among them."* And I must correct you on one other matter, the timing of the Ringo and White recordings of, "Love Me Do". Ringo did record it first, when he showed up unannounced on September 4th, and Martin rejected it, citing Ringo's poor timing -- an assessment agreed with by Paul McCartney. That session was supposed to be just for the 3 guitarists to prep them for a date not yet determined for an official recording session with a pro drummer. But Martin allowed Ringo to record, figuring if he's good enough then he won't need to hire a pro. The Threatles (John, Paul & George) knew that if Ringo wasn't on the record he would very likely quit the band. So Paul tried to persuade Martin that Ringo had only been practicing the song for two weeks and that if he'd give him a little more time, he'd nail the drumming on the song. Martin wasn't having it and told Paul (and Brian) that he was going to hire a session pro for the following week, September 11th. The Beatles went back to Liverpool, and no one told Ringo that he was going to be replaced. So on the 11th Ringo and the lads walk into the studio where Andy White is setting up his drum kit. Ringo was livid, and sulked so demonstrably in the control room that the EMI engineers handed him a tambourine so he could go play with the band on the record. To this day, Ringo says he's never forgiven George Martin for replacing him. While it's true that Ringo's version did get released as the first single, that was likely a mistake. Or, a compromise arranged privately between The Threatles and Martin, to keep Ringo from quitting the band. I believe the latter reason is what happened. So yeah, Ringo's came out first, but not before White had recorded his cut. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@@thethirddoctor52 That's not a sincere question. Music history is filled with former members of successful bands not getting anywhere after leaving the band. It's certainly not as if Pete is unique in this aspect.

From the interviews of Pete that I’ve watched I do get the impression that he’s a decent man.

It’s difficult not to take sides when retelling some stories. 👍 I remember school rivalries when I was a kid so it’s definitely likely that there was rivalry between the lads!

Ringo did seem to fit in with the other three even as early as the Hamburg days. I’ve read that Pete didn’t engage with them or socialise and was perhaps not on their level - with regards to humour perhaps?

Yes

Love your last sentence. Spot on!

Yep he was there when the other three were honing their live performance skills 👍

Yes I should put something together in the Quarrymen!

That's interesting. I didn't do enough digging about whilst researching! I didn't know that.

He was actually sued over that album and accused of fraud as despite the title, it contained no Beatles music. But he prevailed because the Best in the title was him and he was in the Beatles! 🤣🤣

It was a kind of revenge and also misleading, as a cover version record, where the studio band has the name "original artists"

Yes that’s possible as it was all just rock and roll in the early days. Lennon & McCartney had already started writing songs together but the Decca audition and their live performances were all about playing songs that were already known. I think I read that when recording for Tony Sheridan (Bert Kampfart producing?) Pete’s drumming wasn’t liked.

@@TudorSmith Yes Bert Kaempfert. The man with the strings, the choir, the mute bass.

Amazing. Did they have a few tales to tell?

@@TudorSmith Colin told an amusing story about why he quit. Apparently George's dad got them a gig and they played their gig and then celebrated in the dressing room. After getting rather smashed, the compere walked in and said, "Right lads, your second spot is in 5 minutes". They thought they were doing one show. The compere was not impressed that they were all drunk. It was then that they were told the Chairman was coming to see them to over a residency, which was obviously not offered. The chairman had previously been at an event and was wearing make-up and when he walked in the dressing room, John Lennon laughed and mocked his appearance and questioned his sexuality. This incident was the moment Colin knew he'd had enough. Colin also mentioned that they have recently made a film about the Quarrymen. The special thing about this project is that McCartney has been interviewed to share his memories.

What a great story! 🙏

Yep that’s the way to story goes - and went! He served a purpose because he had a kit but I’m pretty sure he didn’t fit the Beatles equation. History has proved that Ringo was the better fit. I love George Harrison’s explanation about Ringo being the right drummer for the band, but that he came into the story at a different chapter.

Every day’s a (rock n roll) school day 🙂

John became very tight with Pete.

It was the right time and place for Pete…for a time. But knowing what we all know now about the journey from 1962 onwards it was a forgone conclusion that Ringo was the better fit…well in my eyes anyway. The Beatles in a paradox uni era with Pete Best as one of the band would have been a different entity all together!

I’m with you on this one. It’s not that Pete Best was used because they’d have likely got rid of him after the Hamburg time, but I’m sure that the ambitions of John & Paul would have meant he would have not been able to keep up with them. Still, he was there at the beginning and that stands for something I guess?

Amazing that you met him. I’ll have to get to the Casbah someday!

It’s certainly a way of looking at it!

Yet one more reason that Martin's desire to use a session drummer in place of Pete was nothing more than a pretext to sack him - something they'd already wanted to do (at least Paul and George) for a long time, over jealousy of Pete's status as the far and away most popular Beatle.

And just what was it that Ringo did on, "She Said, She Said"? He did just what John and Paul told him to do. Ringo has admitted this. Moreover, it is grossly unfair for you to compare 1960-62 Pete with any Beatles albums, let alone songs from 1966. Good grief. Both Pete and Ringo in '62 were playing almost exclusively early rock covers, and they both did it very well. Many who saw them both considered Pete to be the better of the two. Had Pete remained a Beatle, he very well may've evolved in his drumming the way Ringo did, in the presence of 3 genius songwriters. But he was robbed of that chance.

Plus if read that he didn’t push himself to improve so it was a case of stalemate for poor old Pete.

Martin never insisted that he was fired , he actually thought that he had great showmanship, but insisted that a session drummer was used for the recording...

He was replaced, twice, and The Beatles didn't miss a beat. As was pointed out in the video.

I think you’re right. Pete didn’t conform and needed to be replaced.

@@TudorSmith Hi it was a good video , Bernie Purdey ,i think thats how you spell it, has a lot to say over who drummed on the recordings . interestingly the songs are more complex in the first albums than they are on let it be . i did wonder if they had help at the beginning . Anythings possible :)

He was never part of the group socially, he never joined in outside of the stage

​@@Riffwood432hzwhat Bernard Purdie said was hogwash. He has been asked details about those supposed recordings and his story fell apart. He did rerecorded some demos, but Pete was the drummer on those. He recorded some Beatles songs as cover from other artist, but he never played on a Beatles album.

Yeah John was know for his caustic comments. Say it as it is right? But yeah, Pete was a stop gap although he did stay around for 2 years right? Imagine a Beatles sound without Ringo on the sticks though? Ringo knew about providing “space”.

@@TudorSmith I think 🤔 people was just a “ local guy “ and didn’t have the innate level of intelligence / chemistry or creativity as the rest of the group . The sensory sensitivity to gel with the group and gel with the world just wasn’t there and would never be there as your born with it …. One of the greaest gifts in life is working to the maximum of your potential and being happy with that otherwise you’ll have no peace

Sorry Pete was a local guy

@@TudorSmith I was up my dad’s house the other day and I noticed he had a new vinyl record player . My mum bought him it for Xmas so he could play his old records ( I’m 53 he’s 75) I looked through his records and amount others there was Bruce Springsteen collection I bought him when I was a teenager, he had tons of Roy Robinson records and then there 2 sgt pepper albums . One was a first edition I assume from the release days and the other was from the 70s or 80s he bought because he fancied a fresh copy because of a few scratches on the first copy lol 😝 I grew up in the 80s listening to all my dad’s Beatles albums from the 60s . I didn’t buy any myself because he just had them in the house 🏠

@@Johndoe10007 Rubbish. Pete was the most intelligent member of the band. He was the only one who passed his exams to get into college. And I don't mean Art College, I mean real college, academic college. Pete also served as The Beatles de facto manager and booking agent for long stretches, even before he joined the band. Brian Epstein considered Pete the most punctual and professional member of the group. As for Pete's creativity, he showcased it frequently with significant input on creating new arrangements on both the covers they were doing, and even recommending changes to Lennon and McCartney originals that were approved by John and Paul. And regarding chemistry, Pete was very close to John. The two of them spent a lot of time together at Pete's house after gigs, raiding the kitchen and listening to records. John, who was always splitting his pants on stage, would routinely say to Pete's mom, Mona (Mo), *"Mo, i've got another 9-stitcher for ya!",* and she'd always happily oblige. Because of this tight relationship, and because Pete was such a great drummer, John initially pushed back on the idea of sacking Pete when George and Paul tried to enlist him into their conspiracy to replace him. Pete was a very likable bloke, and the only reason a chemistry did not develop between him and Paul, and him and George is because they were jealous of Pete's status as the far and away most popular Beatle with the fans, the club managers, and the press, alike. Chemistry is a two-way street. But Paul and George always kept Pete at arm's length, due to their own insecurities. That's on them...not Pete. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That was a great clip. Thanks for sharing. It really does make sense doesn’t it?

@@TudorSmith No, it is not a great clip. It is full of lies, half-truths, and egregious bias. I can refute every single point made against Pete in it. That guy who made the video is a card-carrying, rabid Ringo Apologist.

I agree. He was the final piece of the puzzle that made the band that very special unit it was destined to become.

Both had their strengths and weaknesses I guess?

It took a while though eh? Perhaps in choosing material for the anthology project, it was realised that his inclusion was important for the whole Beatles narrative and as such, needed to include the early material which perhaps meant some royalties were due?

Can’t think of anyone less deserving 😂

🤣

Not as a fit for the band anyway!

I read somewhere that Pete had the upper hand in charisma and holding himself with management of their gigs as well as being able to talk to the “press” when needed. As far as pretty boy goes - that’s got to be subjective right? 🤣

@@TudorSmith Actually, Tudor, even though a person's looks are subjective, there is ample *objective* evidence that Pete the hands-down best looking Beatle. For instance: * Paul McCartney: *"Of all of us, it was Pete the girls would always go for."* * George Martin: *"Pete Best had a sullen charm. I was surprised to learn they'd replaced him. Pete was the best looking Beatle, and the most marketable among them."* * Geoff Nugent, guitarist for the contemporary Liverpool band, The Undertakers, said, *"You'd see 3 or 4 girls around John, Paul and George after a Beatles show, and you'd see 50 around Pete. Pete Best put The Beatles on the map."* * Bill Harry, editor of Mersey Beat, said: *"*"Pete was so popular with the girls that DJ/promoter Bob Wooler suggested something unprecedented -- place Pete and his kit in front of the other three members of the group. This unusual stage line-up was presented only once -- at the St. Valentine's Dance on 14 February 1961, at Litherland Town Hall. Only once because the stage was mobbed when the girls surged forward and almost pulled Pete off into the crowd. This never happened when John, Paul and George were in the front line."*

@@Cosmo-Kramer Hi. Thanks for your info. Did you pay George back for the computers you destroyed yet? Just wondering. Cheers! 🥨