That remains to be seen. With the jokes of Jackman playing the character til he’s 90, who knows if the Cavillrine makes it past the stage of being a glorified variant cameo.
and DC treated gunn with more grace than the "group-think" shallow mf's at Disney who blip actors at a moment's notice because twitter deemed them a "bad person".
The reason DCEU is bad is because they wanted to have the same success as Marvel and compete with them in something Marvel started five years before them. Marvel They introduced their most important heroes and then introduced the Avengers. DC was in a hurry to compete. In their belief, using their big names will attract viewers rather than the logical story structure and presentation of characters
fact what they should done it release every superhero solo movie and then had the Justice league and not did superman death and also the top WB it just people in suit, they don't care about their character like Zack literally had to explain the lighting bolt for the flash and Superman black suit and many other cause they didn't get it and this is the same WB that destroy CW cause they didn't let the CW used character and their reason WB didn't want people get confuse with two Batman so they call us dumb
@SoldierSpiderx Exactly, imagine if Marvel hadn't made Iron Man before Avengers, how would you want to make me emotional when he goes into the black hole and it's one of the best scenes in the movie, it would be oh this guy under the iron went into a hole and survived. I also hate it when they treat Superman as if he is the main character and the rest are just his assistants. You have to make every character seem important, such as Iron Man's sacrifices, Black Widow, Hawkeye's attempt to take her place, Hulk destroying his hands, returning them, and add a lot. You won't feel like there is one character who is all about him.
@@BrmRayan I know WB fuck themself up and want Zack to rush everything, if they took their time like they should like after superman movie we should got either a Batman wonder women movie solo and then either have the flash and aquman movie or what I would do I would made a movie with all 3 of them not BVS those that be stupid and see how badass the 3 of them together that WB shot themself in the foot
WB should learn from The Dark Knight's success. What the fans want: - character development - good storytelling - connections between DCEU movies - mature themes but no nudity and gore... 😎 🎥
I love dark knight but i think if they gonna spam dark knight theme for 5 movies i wont watch that lol. Esp for shared universe. Shared universe is supposed to be epic stuff not depressing stuff. And thats the problem. You cant use batman in his depressing film in epic hero gathering hub. Lol
DCEU was never winning. Man of Steel was divisive. Batman v Superman jumbled. Justice League jumbled. The only clear hits they had were Aquaman and the first Wonder Woman movie. Marvel Disney has had more hits with just their Avengers movies than the DCEU had in its entire existence. 😂😂😂😂😏
Ya, after I found out the contract rock had which made it so he would never lose a fight, I lost all respect for him, wut kinda ego loving move is that
wb in 1980: hey we made superman 1978 and it was a hit (proceeds to mess up the sequels, derailing the entire thing) wb in 1992: hey we made batman 89 and returns and they where a hit (proceeds to mess up the sequels, derailing the entire thing) wb in 2002: hey we made the dcau and it was a hit (proceeds to cancel all the shows for no reason) wb in 2013: hey we made the dceu and it was a hit so far (proceeds to interfer and mess it up for no reason) wb in 2015: hey we made the arkham series and the coolest superhero games ever (proceeds to make two live service games nobody wanted) wb in 2019: hey we made doom patrol and people loved it (makes it go under the radar for no reason) wb in 2021: hey we made the best superman show in years, superman and lois (proceeds to cancel it after 4 seasons) wb in 2022: hey wen brought back henry cavill and ben affleck and we are turning things around (proceeds to fire both for no reason) wb in 2023: hey we rebooted the dcamu with the tomorrowverse (proceeds to mees it up and end it before it could get going) warner bros has to be the dumbest studio in all of media, even marvel is trying to do better.
The WB does this alot. They let people be creative, but then they have a hit and THEN ALL the non creative executives and sales teams get involved. Worse yet. DEI directors start giving their input. They take something that works and turn it into a skin suit parody of itself with second guessing and nonsense "creative decisions".
WB is such a shady business I have refrained from consuming their products, their cover up of Erza Miller while fucking over Henry Cavill is disgusting.
2 live service? I know the suicide squad but not know any others. Gotham Knights originally was going to be live service until they changed it last minute which explains the game's nature of being a bit too grindy
@@akwilson1676 bruh, how to tell someone that your only introduction to Henry Cavil is from man of steel without telling your only introduction to henry Cavil is from man of steel
WB’s biggest failure was rushing into a justice league movie with most of their characters being mischaracterized and still in the middle of their origin. The biggest thing James Gunn’s DCU has going for it is that most of their heroes have gone through their origins and we’re just gonna jump into their stories. They also put like three of their biggest storylines into BvS and failed.
fact they rush everything and worst the top WB didn't understand none of the characters like Zack had to explain them the flash lighting so WB it run by bunch of suit who only care about money and they rush storyline with Superman death like they just want catch up with marvel so badly didn't care
It was clear neither WB or Snyder thought about the longevity of the universe. Snyder’s plan was a saga not different from Harry Potter. It wasn’t a cinematic universe.
@@rheokalyke367Marvel/DC films except for Wonder Woman 1 and Aquaman 1 have always skewed male. Even Birds of Prey had a reportedly 54% audience. The Marvels skewed 67% male.
After Man of Steel next should have been Man of Steel 2 where they would have shown how Superman is feeling guilty of taking a life and on the other hand Clark Kent as a reporter covering the devastation his fight caused in metropolis realising how important it is to hold back. This would have meant two things 1) Superman would have been a leader in JL who ensures that his teammates don't go bonkers with their powers 2) Batman would have been the one who on the other hand ensures that the JL crosses the line whenever it is important because of his past where Robin died because he didn't cross it
Too much of the DCEU was spent rushing to play catchup and not understanding WHY DC and Marvel fans are different. Marvel has always been the popcorn action movie that's lots of fun. You don't have to think too much but if you do, you will be rewarded if you do. Its a great fantasy world for most audience. Contrast that with DC, which tends to skew more mature and lore based. It's not for everyone, but those who do are rabid fans. Movies like The Joker, or the Dark Knight trilogy feel grounded and explainable (as much as comic movies can be explained) versus starting with fantasy. I personally watch Marvel movies for fun with my family, while I watch DC movies dig deep in comics. Example. I loved The Watchmen. Its not a movie for everyone but its a movie that really was awesome despite lack of box office success. A good way to sum up DC vs Marvel is Marvel = Hollywood Blockbusters, DC = Indie movie Quentin Tarantino flick.
If you think Zack Snyder is bad, just remember Walter Hamada who wants to replace Superman and Batman with Supergirl and Batgirl, and no straight vision in releasing movies.
@@bofawhatsbofa4593 spoken like a true executive. Dollars is all they care about, and that desperation causes them to meddle and meddle until the creative vision is gone and its a corporate product on an assembly line
@@richborn6700 think you misunderstand. They had the vision under Snyder. Love it or hate it. But his films made $ and were leading somewhere even with all the constant meddling. But under Walter Hamada (post Aquaman) we got 8 financial flops
- Not using the Nolanverse - Fumbling Green Lantern - Not using the Flash show - Using Zack Snyder for Superman Yeah, they fucked up every single step right at the beginning
"The DCEU used to gross between 800 million and 1 billion PER MOVIE at the box office." That's a bit of a stretch 😂 only 3 DCEU movies made between 800 million - 1 billion (out of 15 films).
@silverstrike5904 he can't simply smile for the sake of it. The smiling has to fit with the context and setting at hand. There was nothing to smile about where invaders are destroying the Earth. Just as he had no choice but to kill Zod, because it was either that or everyone on Earth. The red panties on the outside look horrendous. People need to grow-up.
@@silverstrike5904Superman also killed zod in superman 2 and no one complained.Also i don't get why the trunks are a point of contention for a lot of people.Truth is,it works whether superman wears trunks or not.
The 2 biggest things that killed the DCEU was stupid executives who don't know the first thing about how to make a movie, who demanded Zack cut out half and hour from BVS as well as the rest of what happened to suicide squad and JL. But the biggest death blow was people's lack of media literacy skills.
@marcusluera89 then make a movie and I'll respect you. Also you're hating on Snyder but you have INJUSTICE Superman as your profile pic. Nothing you say is valid
It would've made sense for the brand and continuity, but Warner invested around 530 million in those movies. They couldn't scrap them, because they wanted to get SOME of that money back.
@mrheadcannon Absolutely agree and understand 100% from a business perspective. Those movies I couldn't hold against David Zaslav or James Gunn because, more than anything, they inherited disasters. They sang The Flash's praises, yes, but it's like you said: They wanted to make some money back from that movie. In the business world, even if you know a movie's average at best, until its release, you prop it up as much as humanly possible.
@@Peacemaker2024-A9T If it was up to WB Discovery, that movie doesn't even happen. But at that time, only so much could be done with WarnerMedia and Ann Sarnoff calling the shots.
19:48, Yes, losing Superman was unfortunate; however, that wasn't just some random 70-year-old in the role of Bruce Wayne. That was Michael Keaton, the original Batman from Batman '89; and he kicked @ss in The Flash. Put some respect on that.
Too bad he didn't kick ass in Batman in 89. I attended the Batman premiere in Hollywood in '89 and I remember the rumblings in the audience about how miscast he was. The only reason he was cast at all was because the WB suits were so hellbent on Burton directing (because they wanted Gotham to be dark and gritty and "nobody does dark and gritty like Tim Burton") and Burton is incapable of working with anyone he hasn't worked with before. And he'd just completed Beetlejuice with guess who. There was still a lot of leftover Beetlejuice in Keaton's Batman performance. Happily, Keaton has improved considerably over the years.
A few things: Thor is not the second MCU movie. The Incredible Hulk is. Thor is fourth after Iron-Man 2. Man of Steel came out in 2013 after The Dark Knight Rises, not The Dark Knight. Other than that, great vid!
DC was impatient. Just start with that Superman. Same wonderwoman movie, then a stand-alone Batman movie. Follow that up with a better flash casting and his . Aquaman then do JL introducing Cyborg. Choose someone more recognizable as a villain, maybe brainiac or someone more known, not Steppenwolf. Leave only hints of Darkseid.
Exactly, instead of throughing a bunch of important characters, build the hype and development. Like Man of Steel was a perfect start and then you could've made a stand alone batman movie. Then Wonder Woman and maybe a second sequel to one of thos movies. Then when realising the Justice League your main characters are developed. And introduce a casual but good villian to kick of the Jutice League. Corruption and no trust and no accurate planing is where this universe falm short, while trying to be like Marvel. Making a great independent name is what we all want for the DCEU
Rebooting was the best thing DC could have done. Saving the DCEU was like fixing a sandcastle as waves were crumbling it. With Gunn behind the wheel, I think the DCU will be a competitor to Marvel. Though they still need to put in the work, they can't rely on name and Marvel sucess alone anymore I predict Superman and Fantastic Four are going to be on par with eachother next year, fitting for two franchises that haven't been done justice in decades
@@juniorgamersfire1184, yes yes, we can laugh at the Snyder stans who thought the DCU was dead on arrival for no reason, but only after the movie comes out lol
Just take inspiration from the DCAU why the hell is that so hard? The DCAU gave us definitive adaptations of DC's most beloved superheroes. Superman: The Animated Series, Batman: The Animated Series, Justice League, and Justice League Unlimited are better than any DCEU film. Why is it so hard for Warner Brothers to get it right? Hire people that actually care about the source material not edgelord hacks like Zack Snyder. It's like Warner Brothers wants DC to be in Marvel's shadow for eternity. It's frustrating being a DC fan.
Suicide squad 2 was great and the only reason it didn't do great at the box office was because suicide squad 1 sucked. Peacemaker was also fantastic and this is why i think James Gunn's DCU is going to be great, he has already proven he can do good DC movies.
Just love DCAU. Incredible movies. 1) Batman: Under the Red Hood 2) Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths 3) Superman/Batman: Public Enemies 4) Superman/Batman: Apocalypse 5) Batman: Year One 6) Justice League: Doom 7) Batman: The Dark Knight Returns - Part 1 & 2 8) Justice League: The Flashpoint Paradox
ngl i really do have hope for superman: gunn works well w a more wholesome kinda vibe and the problem with synder's version is that he loved emo-ifying everything to the point where all the characters just felt the same and very one dimensional. Imo sticking to the og aka the comics (which gunn is a huge fan of) is definitely a lot better
@@dragonnet289he wasn't. He didn't even know anything about characters like Superman was supposed to be a charming and kind character but he showed him evil and also showed superman so powerful that no one on JL could defeat him. I am glad he's gone now
They wanted to base their cinematic universe on the vision of a Director who doesn’t believe in heroes. Snyder fundamentally doesn’t understand or even like the very concept of a superhero that altruistically help people. You can look up videos of him saying you live in a “Dream world” if you don’t think Superman if he existed wouldn’t kill or be morally bankrupt.
DCEU couldn't fall, since it never really rise. Some DC movies did well, but once they started to make it a coherent cinematic universe, it failed miserably, maybe with the exception of Wonder Woman.
For Aqua Man 2 a very important impact on views had the trial amber and jd had. Some people cancelled aqua man 2 because of their role adding more pressure to dc ppl
Despite DC being at a disadvantage, they had the tools to make a comeback: -Had the rights to all heroes, unlike Marvel. -They have the talented writers and actors. -Like Marvel, also had infinite money. But WB had to fumble hard.
There was never a rise to the DC universe, unless you’re counting the Dark Knight Trilogy People just hyped it up because it was based on something already popular
Superman has so many good stories from a century of published comics but movie makers are obsessed with killing him and using him as a punching bag. Just as Disney denies the Star Wars extended universe to draw inspiration from, Warner Bros refuses to look into Superman's comics or use any other villain besides Lex and Zod (that Doomsday in BvS was not Doomsday. It was a crap imitation). Also Batman: The Dark Knight Returns isn't really a good story. It's a niche story that only a few, loud fans adore but keeps potential newcomers and enjoyers from engaging in comics; the kind of comic that makes comic book stores feel like XXX stores. Honestly an adaptation of Superman/Batman: Public Enemies would have been great to see on the big screen.
It never had a rise it was instantly controversial. I knew so many ppl who would’ve watched BVS and were excited but didn’t cuz of bad reviews. It died right there
To our surprise, wb let nolan leave them. He could've been a reason for DCEU revival but here we are. Nolan with Universal and not doing anything with wb now. They got so many chances to revive DCEU but messed every single chance. At this point, it feels like no one's interested with their crap anymore. Being a fan it hurts, but can't do much about it other than watching standalone movies like Pattinson's Batman, Joaquin's Joker and others
Studio interference, has no idea how to focus on somebody who wasn’t Suoerman or Batman, constantly trying and failing to compete with the MCU, multiple box office bombs, and I can probably name off some more problems.
I'm 90% sure that Man of Steel wasn't even supposed to be the beginning but Green Lantern was instead. 😂 Then they changed their mind and decided Man of Steel would ACTUALLY be the beginning of the DCEU after GL was so poorly received. 🤦♂️ If that is right then damn. What a poor omen from the start!
I feel that honestly. Zack synder played a huge part in this failure. Gosh when i went in to watch BvS it was literally the first movie where i legit fell asleep
Warner Bros. currently only manages to make decent Batman movies, which are often even better than many Marvel movies, even if Batman works great, as does Spider-Man, it doesn't mean that they don't think anymore about making a decent DC universe in MCU style, then they have to know that quality > quantity
I'm still shocked you didn't cover Flash's Actor acting like a whole sociopath for the longest while. The movie was bad but his general behavior didn't help anything.
The DCEU was doomed once BvS was released and rejected by the general audience. Under normal circumstances, the rest of the franchise would have been cancelled, see Universal's Dark Universe. Unfortunately for WB, a cinematic universe is a big thing to stop since multiple films are already in various stages of production. Suicide Squad was nearing completion. Production of Wonder Woman was done. Unfortunately for WB, Justice League was getting ready for production in just a few weeks. This is why Snyder was kept on as director, albeit with heavy supervision.
Henry Cavill was great as Superman but more like an alternative universe version of Superman, Zack made him into a Batman with superpowers, in the same way, that Batman and Robyn killed Batman for trying to make him into a light-hearted character, Zack did the inverse by trying to make superman into a dramatic act, Christopher Reeve still is the only one that managed to capture The Superman persona and Clark Kent perfectly from the Comics, yes, of course, it needs to bring him to the 21 century, but he will never be that depressed traumatized character, he is not Batman, it doesn't work for him be like that otherwise he would turn into a Homelander type, so I think this new Superman coming up next year maybe DC trying to go back to basics, I will miss Gal Gadot as wonder woman, she was the perfect incarnation of WW based on George Perez run with the character in the 80s ( who re-created WW from scratch and turned her into a serious character instead of just eye candy ) The first WW was almost perfection ( excepting that CGI ending ) but that was a great base to carry her on for long, but the second movie tried to bring that Linda Carter silllyness back, which as amazing in the 70s , but would not work today, and killed Gal version of the character, but she still the perfect interpretation of Wonder Woman, so will be one hard to recast
Fr bro. It hit me so hard when they told they were going to reboot the universe. They should have instead focused on bringing back the quality in their movies. I for myself was eagerly waiting for Wonder Woman 3 and justice league 2 with darkseid. The fact that they did Not treat gal gadot and henry cavill just goes on to show how bad as a franchise they were
@@Bobbyfischer89 I really wanted to watch where things were going, especially after watching the Zack cut of Justice League, all the problems were fixable, they should let him conclude his vision then start from scratch if that is what they really wanted to to do
There was no RISE of DCEU . First Superman movie, First Batman movie & the Nolan trilogy. Entire DC movie world is close to nothing. Man of Steel and BvS were frustrating to watch even if they had a few highlights. Justice League was pathetic. Snyder cut helped but what done is done. Entire DCEU is a goddamn mess nobody knows how to fix. WB/DC had to just hire their team from DCAU to script. And they didnt even bother to think of future. They kept rebooting Superman and Batman with no end goal. Marvel steadily built MCU from 2008. By the time Avengers came out, DC was far behind and they tried to force entire world in a few years with no preparation burdening everything on Snyder. How much can one man write and direct; DC world as big as Marvel. Two Suicide Squads came out with. Two batmen. An all powerful flash which may not return. Killed off the God level Dr Fate. James Gunn, WB and DC are clueless and its not reaching anywhere.
DC, competing with Marvel, had to set another tone. Marvel was family friendly in the early days, where the most you'd see is a small cut across a nose or a bruise on a cheek. Their violence, while explosive, felt pulled back as to not offend parents so that kids could see it. DC saw an untapped market. If Marvel was pandering toward literal children and parents, then DC would go after those who craved a darker, more gritty, deadlier, violent universe. Remember, Dark Knight was a success. And while not related to DC and Marvel, other violent shows and movies were creating empires on bodies. So it made sense. The general audience craves violence, and they aren't getting it from Marvel. So that's their market. Unfortunately for them, we wanted comic stories. And while comics are violent and bloody and graphic, we didn't want to see that. We wanted to see our beloved heros being HEROS. Not murderous psychopathic villains. We fell in love with The Punisher, Logan and Deadpool only after a decade and a half of cautiously easing into violence going from a small cut across Tony's nose to Cap having his face crushed in by Bucky to watching Thanos literally be decapitated. Marvel eased into the violence over what, 16 years? DC gave Batman some machine guns and said whatever happens, happens. Today, the world would be willing and accepting of a DC Dark universe. But back then? Absolutely not. It was the departure of tone that put the final nail in the coffin for the DCU. And, unfortunately, that final nail... was laid first.
@@Doggo_is_sus BvS was a critical failure, it’s worse than a “meh”. Critics AND general audiences thought it was trash and it was. The storytelling was abysmal.
@@Doggo_is_sus “Amazing” is a stretch, ironically Batman was the most aesthetically appealing despite being a terrible iteration of the character. Barry was trash and weird. Superman had some issues. Wonder Woman and Cyborg were brilliant
Teen Titans would be a better teen movie hero now... first film will be Batman will assign Robin to recruit young heroes for minor missions (Street Level) so the Justice League can focus on big missions then Robin recruits Cyborg and Beastboy where they ended up fighting a major villain (Slade) and the H.I.V.E. academy. second film will be Raven joining them where his dad is the villain then Nightwing and Kid Flash will join them third film will introduce Starfire where her sister as the big bad and also introduce Terra fourth film will be the titans will discover the brotherhood of evil and the return of H.I.V.E. academy also the titans will gain some allies like Red star or the Doom patrol final film will be the return of Slade and Robin has to face him together with Nightwing and Batman (Also Terra's betrayal)
The Dark Knight was released in theaters in July 2008. I remember specifically bc it was the day of my birthday and I went to see it that day. Man of Steel was released in 2013, 5 years later. Just thought I'd correct that little tid bit.
Yes, we do know what's canon for the new DCU. James Gunn has specifically said that _Creature Commandos_ and _Superman_ are the beginning. Nothing before them counts.
What was left out is Man of Steel was produced by Nolan’s production company. He and Goyer wrote the story and script, Snyder only directed the film. After that, Nolan left and Snyder was left in charge. That’s where things went wrong.
A little note to the Snyder cut era is that a decent amount of people wanted to see the Ayer cut of that first suicide squad movie but were denied. Also yes the blue beetle and the black Adam movie were both entertaining.
Okay but Batman vs Superman was really good movie I loved it . I never liked Batman before but after this movie Batman became my one of the favourite character, challenging God like entity.
It Fall down from THE first movie Man Of Steel, I get the point Zack wanted to do but the execution Was mixed like Superman Returns having both best Superman Moments and boring one in one movie even in it many things go nowhere, but it did rise with Wonder Woman And Aquaman and then I Think DCEU Is more like The Fall, The Rise and then purposely fall again!
@@Doggo_is_sus Yes, but it's even controversial like Batman The Caped Crusader where the fans are divided and the ones who don't like Superman simply added on the hard run!
@@Doggo_is_sus Yes, I think the main reason it's divided was of how it compared to Christopher Reeves Superman, with his origins and Clark Kent overall with his hope, with Man Of Steel I understand they made him rise from dark and still be a symbol of hope and all elements are correctly done but I think something is missing, maybe i got adjusted with long sequence fight but maybe that should have got clear in sequel, It's sad we won't get it now!
One major case for why DCEU fell was because they wanted to compete side by side with MCU even though the latter was already 5 years into existence when Man of Steel was released and was already at the start of in Phase 3 with 13 movies when DCEU released their only second movie yet decided to have Batman vs Superman be the main story to compete against Captain America: Civil War that ignores how the latter had a lot of build up to that film while the former had almost nothing to justify a story like that too quick. And once that movie became a massive disappointment Warner execs outright destroyed the panic button with how hard they smashed it by making extreme changes to the Suicide Squad that was supposed to come out in 2016 which resulted in that movie being an utter mess. And then of course there was Justice League 2017, a movie that more or less destroyed any chance of DCEU recovering due to extensive rewrites and re-shoots under Joss Whedon that resulted in a flaccid film, one that saw Ben Affleck and Henry Cavil leave the DCEU afterwards and pretty much threw away any and all plans for future Justice League movies with everyone being back to where they were before. By that point it was beyond saving and the whole thing being rebooted was the only sensible option.
There is no good aspect to James Gunn taking over the DCU. What Warners needed to do was understand that they brought on Zack Snyder to build worlds. Once he started building, they should have stood in his corner. Christopher Nolan gave his blessing to Snyder Man Of Steel. It showed us a darker and brilliant origin story. The issue is Batman V Superman. WB didn’t release BVS, they released the PG-13 version. So of course, with all of the storylines lacking in cohesive storytelling, they forced Snyder to cut the movie and put it out in theaters, which was a mistake. What they would have gotten was an R rated Batman versus Superman And it would’ve been three hours long It’s an amazing film Had they stuck in his corner, he could’ve kept world building with justice league’s parts 1, 2 & 3. But the next insult is letting Justice league get cut up and hacked by Joss Weadon. This was a horrible decision, all it did was reinforce that the fan base that had been built by what had been released by the DC EU under Snyder’s watch had a very strong fan base worldwide But Warner Bros. ignored this Handed over the universe to James gun after seeing how well Zack Snyder‘s Justice league cut performed once it was seen Bottom line you need to back your artists We’re living in the world where people that do not care about movies own the movie Studios, and make the decisions Snyder‘s world was not only working, but it was so dense justice league part two and part three would’ve been phenomenon.
Dc should have this characters in thier universe 1)Batman 2)Superman 3)Flash 4) Aquaman 5) Wonder woman 6) Death stroke 7)Green lantern 8)Green Arrow 9) Shazam 10) Black Adam 11) They should introduce new black and shazham green lantern in second face.
One thing that is not completely true ,david zaslav was finding a new CEO for DC studios , but no one want to lead the DC beacuse of previous films , Warner Bros requested Todd Phillips and Matt reeves many times to be DC head but they kept refusing it , in the End James Gunn come up by himself with Peter saffran to be the head of DC Studios ,and David Zaslav gave that position immediately.
