I hate how American sports teams will build up a big fan base in a city and the just leave because they didn’t get their way financially. I’d hate to be a local fan paying lots of money for games and then they just move halfway across the country.
That´s beacause american sport is made by big investors to make money. It is not about competition and local founded clubs. Moving a team away to another city is unthinkable in German sports here. Also the club members always have 51% share, so that investors cannot ruin the club and it´s taditions.
Mangobonbon I was thinking about what would happen if let’s say, Dortmund decided to move. Like can you imagine the scenes? I just don’t get how so many Americans can be okay with their team abandoning them.
Yeah, you can't make a free market argument for it, the argument must be framed as an exceptional circumstance justifying the use of taxpayer money. You also can't make a direct free market argument for giving money to businesses owner by women or ethnic minorities as old mate suggests for some reason.
I live about 5 minutes from FedEx Field and all of the “incentives” the area got for building a stadium right in the middle of their neighborhood are all but dead. No one even shows up to the games because of how bad the football team is. Great use of money 10/10
It's interesting to see the contrast between FedEx Field and the areas around Nationals Park and Capital One Arena. I would say the Gallery Place renewal has been a huge success. The Navy Yard, TBD.
The Redskins are basically a team without a host. Dan Snyder is the reason the Redskins are not profitable. Plus, FedEx Field is in the the middle of east bumfuck no man's land. When their previous owner was in possession, he should have rebuilt RFK Stadium or built a new one on that lot. Such a waste in the past 20 years.
Here in London, when they overhauled Stratford to build the olympic park, they put Westfield shopping centre next to it, one of the biggest shopping centres in Europe. It's pretty cool. Completely transformed that area of London.
@@jaypea99 Right, now West Ham plays in a 3/4 empty stadium, miles away from the pitch, that has robbed the club of any chance of developing a culture in the new grounds.
Westfield Stratford is the best shopping mall in whole Europe not the least Westfield London is at the same level... and the Olympic park is very nice during spring summer time a really nice lively area to not miss
I'm struggling to understand how come a city government paying for a private owned stadium is a thing? As far as I know almost everywhere in EU you Either build your own stadium with your oown money or strike a deal with the city to build a stadium and then pay a rent for it. This video literally makes no sense to me.
The sports market here in the US and Canada is very aggressive and owners know it. If a team wants or needs a new stadium they force that community to pay for it or they will move to another city because there are only so many teams in the 5 major sports leagues in the US and plenty of cities ready to pay for a stadium to bring in a team. Its gross and more people should really care about it but its a super touchy subject try telling someone who has been following a team for a life time the team is moving to save money they wont really care how much it costs they will ask the local government do anything to stop them from leaving.
It also has benefits of attracting mass amount of tourists to watch the games, staying in hotels, shopping in nearby shops, and paying tax in that city/county's jurisdiction. The Gov backs on the fact that investing in this will bring more traffic and attention to the city. With over 10 cities having a population of 1million+ people, if cities dont provide any assistance, they will move to a city that does
The stadium district in Vancouver is kind of unique. Our football/soccer stadium(BC Place was built & is owned by the provincial government) and our hockey arena(Rogers Arena) was entirely paid for by the Canucks owners. The land that both of these stadiums sit on was used for Expo 86 and before then that part of Vancouver was a rail yard. Neither stadium has a large parking lot due to the fact that both stadiums are a short walk away from the Skytrain.
Vancouver is an interesting case. Rogers Arena opened in the mid-90's (and BC Place in 1983 - the two are basically beside each other), before the whole arena district concept took off. Vancouver does not have a major highway connected to downtown, so we've always been more of a public transit focussed city than other big cities.
Our city was always the outlier from doing things from the typical North American city. The old Pacific Coliseum Arena use to be in East Van in the suburbs which is still great for WHL games, concerts, smaller events etc. There's only so much undeveloped land you can build since everything is crammed into our landlocked area so in retrospect, the football and hockey stadium within walking distance to downtown and connection to skytrain was the only option unless it was built further east when the surrounding cities such as Burnaby and Surrey weren't as big as it is now. Ever been to the Abbotsford Centre to watch the former Abbotsford Heat or a concert? It sucked. Stupidly long drive on the highway just to go to a concert and back home. At least for Canucks/Whitecaps/Lions games, you can make a whole day/evening event out of which which benefits all local businesses but your pocketbook.
Vancouver's downtown stadiums are unique as the area has grown organically around them without parking lots/parkades and serviced by rapid transit. Lots of residential/commercial/retail surrounding them and easily serviced by taxi as the area is densely populated.
I think the LA Stadium is mostly privately funded, but yeah -- that's the biggest problem with the developments. Improve infrastructure and schools before helping out billionaires.
I think it's down to city leaders wanting to point to something impressive like a stadium and say "Look, I made that happen!" Helping the homeless doesn't 'look' impressive, like how they would rather build a new bridge than fill in potholes on a side street, the bigger and louder the better
From a humanitarian point of view absolutely, you're spot on however economics can't be ignored. Feeding homeless can be viewed as a drain on precious funds. You can't feed em once and send em on their way. You build a stadium, sure there's an initial cost up front however you have the upside of increased tax revenue forever. I can almost guarantee you these billionaires are pitching the city that this will pay for itself and more. With increased taxes now you can feed the homeless which is probably in their pitch too.
Right now they are being used as parking for the excess rental cars that aren’t being used due to Coronavirus. Same thing with the parking lot at angel stadium in Anaheim.
It should but unfortunately the dodgers don’t own their parking lot. Their previous owner does and he’s a greedy asshole who try to use the team revenue for his divorce
I agree. Though CityBeautiful denigrated the idea of the City paying for infrastructure improvements around new stadiums, I think it really depends on the area and what improvements were needed. When PacBell/SBC/AT&T/Oracle Park was built, San Francisco paid for the infrastructure improvements around the stadium. This was about $28 million on the city tab which included new sidewalks, repaved roads, new sewer/water lines, upgraded power facilities, etc. The area was an old warehouse district that was ripe for redevelopment so none of the infrastructure had been upgraded for 50-100 years, so they were all near the end of their useful life. They had to be upgraded anyway, so the City picked up the tab on this as a bargaining chip. Yet, some people STILL complained about using City funds for anything related to the stadium. I think the City spending $28 million instead of $360 million for the ballpark is fair deal. The Chase Center had the same type of deal - City will pay for infrastructure and the sports team pays for the arena. I estimate the City spent around $50 million for the infrastructure upgrades which included upgrading the traffic controls around the arena, new sewer and water lines, upgrading the roads and parks, and a new $33 million expanded Muni platform. I think the City spending $50 million instead of $1.4 BILLION for the arena is a pretty darn good deal. Of course, there will always be naysayers, but, hey...
Yes if you can get redevelopment down to low 10s of millions it makes a lot more sense. How many are actually following that relatively low tax payer spending model? This is the first I've heard of being that low. Checking on wikipedia and they cite 80 million in infrastructure upgrades and 10 million in tax abatements. Still on the cheap end though. It was the first MLB park since Dodger stadium in the 60s to be with privately funded construction. The flip side is that deal being repeated wasn't on the table or wasn't good enough for the Santa Clara 49ers.
As a Chicagoan I love having all the stadiums in the actual city, as for using public money for them, I don’t really think these billionaires need taxpayer money. I don’t like subsidizing rich people. I get it’s tough if they threaten to leave but it’s still probably better than bending the knee to the wealthy
@@narata1541 Great move for the Fire. Bridgeport is pretty hard to get too anyways. Maybe they will get more fans now. FC Dallas I mean FC Frisco should follow suit.
The OG urban stadium that is still standing and used 45 years later? The Louisiana Superdome. It's for football, parties, concerts, trade shows, events, etc. And completely walkable to housing, businesses, garages, bars, restaurants, and the French Quarter. It's no wonder New Orleans has hosted the second most number of Super Bowls. Pre-Katrina, the Saints owner wanted a new stadium and was threatening to move to San Antonio. After Katrina, the state did a lot of major renovations (Katrina repair plus some), and negotiated long term deal to keep the team in the city. Everyone wants what New Orleans has, which is why Houston built both the new baseball stadium and basketball arena in downtown where other walkable businesses can invest (adjacent to the convention center). It's about the synergies of colocating. More expensive to start, but that's what property tax relief is for. Why do we abandon and build new? Just renovate more often. The Superdome had paid for itself many times over. In fact the most recent renovation finally cost as much as the construction in the 70's. But hundreds of millions in renovation is cheaper and easier than spending billions on new construction and site work.
Renovation is cheaper but that can be seen by some as a bad thing. It means less construction "jobs" for businesses and unions. New stadiums seem to always get the look of a national event like final four or super bowl. Maybe if leagues weren't so hesitant to award a 5+ year old stadium a marquee event, that would reduce the pressure.
While I can't speak for all cases, there are some times when there are external pressures that contribute to a stadium closing rather than renovating. Case in point: The Hoosier Dome (later RCA Dome) in Indianapolis. One internal factor was that the stadium wasn't considered a particularly good one by the standards of the time, and so there was some pressure to replace it with a better stadium as renovating it might not have been enough. (If the stadium hadn't already gone, the collapse of the Metrodome roof later on might have put more pressure for a new stadium.) Further, Indianapolis wanted to host a Super Bowl, and couldn't because the RCA Dome didn't have enough seating capacity to do so. But there was one external factor that also contributed: The Indiana Convention Center, which extended into a section of the RCA Dome, needed to expand because it was hosting bigger and bigger events, especially the major gaming convention Gen Con. And the only convenient space for it to expand into was where the RCA Dome already was. So, there were a number of groups who had problems that could be solved by a new stadium, and in one case by a new stadium in a (slightly) different location. The end result? Lucas Oil Stadium was built a block and a half south of the RCA Dome, which was demolished when Lucas Oil Stadium was finished. The Convention Center got the land it needed to expand (which it did, very quickly), and that's more or less how things stand over 12 years later.
@@MarsJenkar At least they were responsible in reusing what they could . It was an overall win ,and Lucas oil is actually a great looking stadium compared to many being built today.
Sports that turnover many millions of dollars each year can finance the construction themselves. If you want to spend tax money on projects, you can finance sports and events that have difficulty in financing it themself.
Ha, I live in the DC area and don’t know anyone who has been to PGC for a football game. Meanwhile, even though my friends and I aren’t really sports fans, we’ve all been to the Nats stadium at least once-because it’s easy to get to. I wish the Waterfront/SW area of DC hadn’t been completely decimated in the 60’s though; we used to have a vibrant African-American and Jewish community there before it was razed, and I would’ve much preferred that to the movie studio setting of the current area.
I live in Adelaide, Australia where we had a similar problem. Our big football stadium was 10km from the CBD and the commute home was absolute hell. So we redeveloped a smaller stadium that existed in our city's entertainment precinct and built a footbridge over a river that separates the venue from the CBD. Adelaide Oval now gets used all year round for sports and concerts. I highly recommend you visit if you're ever in Australia!
As someone from the UK when you said the team just moved location I was shocked, I'm still struggling to process it. I guess that's why US teams have weird names that don't really respond to a geographical location.
To top that off, many teams are not even located in the cities they lie about being in. For instance, the so called "New York Giants" football team plays in a city called East Rutherford, which is not even in New York State, let alone being in New York itself.
@@muhilan8540 Los Angeles Lakers. They started got that name when they were playing in Minneapolis, a city actually noted for its many lakes. In Minnesota, the "Land of 10,000 Lakes".
Take a page out of Baltimore's book on how to deal with stadium complexes. Camden Yards became the forefront of revitalizing an old rail yard and warehouse district with ease of access to light rail; I-95; and the Inner Harbor. M&T Bank Stadium being built 4 years later created a new stadium complex that extends as far as the nearby Casino & Greyhound Terminal while neighborhoods surrounding the stadiums were never affected. I think if we done it once before, we could do it again if our Howard Street project ever get green lit to include a new arena (current arena built in 1961); a newer BIGGER convention center and revitalization of Lexington Market within the "dilapidated" west downtown district.
The Lexington Market renovation is supposedly good, though I haven't been yet. And RoFo Arena is getting rebuilt. That being said, I'd love to see more light rail or a renewed Red Line. Right now downtown Baltimore has a huge chance to become as beloved as Fed, Fells, and Canton. But we need to make it easier to get into the city without driving. A Baltimore with the mass transit of DC would be a dream.
100% this. I'm from the region but moved north a while ago. I love that I can still get to the stadium without driving if I want to. The light rail having easy access and the walkable blocks around the stadium make it feel very inviting and nice to be around.
Seattle is getting a hockey (NHL) team soon. There is an investment group that is renovating the stadium that the Seattle Supersonics (NBA) used to play in. It is in an urban location with fairly limited parking nearby. The investment group is also trying to attract an NBA team back to the city to recreate the Supersonics, so they are renovating the stadium in a way to accommodates both sports. So this was a fairly unique situation and I'd say overall good. We already had this stadium from the 1962 World's Fair (keyarena), which is the same fair that the Space Needle was built for. As far as I know there is no city money going to this, although I do know the city is planning on building a light-rail station nearby in the coming decade. That being said, the light-rail station will serve an area that has many other attractions beyond just the stadium.
I like the idea of stadiums and building mixed zones around them, but the goverment should absolutely not pay for anything other than maybe the apartments and some of the infrastructure.
In most US cities, connecting the stadium to public transit (by which I'm sure you only mean rail) wouldn't do much good because very few of them have transit networks that go anywhere or have any big plans for expansion. It would be a lot of money to connect people to one or two places. They'd do it if the project is near the line, but aren't going to lay down a couple billion to connect it if the existing light rail is on the other side of town. It makes a lot more sense in a context like that, to just have some efficient roads and run buses which can get anywhere they need to. In a city that does have a significant transit network, they would ensure that connectivity to the arena is excellent. In Portland for example, the Rose Quarter gets a stop from the Red, Blue, Green, and Yellow MAX light rail lines, as well as the Streetcar and several bus lines. Their transit network is large (and *expensive*) so they want to make damn sure it goes to big points of interest like that.
Chris Gurney In Milwaukee the new Hop streetcar is supposed to cut right through the plaza I’m front of Fiserv Forum. I’m actually pretty excited for it to as it will add another dynamic to the Deer District.
The Sacramento railyards mentioned here also has an extension that goes right back to downtown but the light rail system we have doesn’t get much praise from anyone I know. Been on it about 3-4 times and just Uber now. Quicker, easier and no worries about running into screaming people with mental illness.
Hey Dave! I'm Dom DeSound, a House Music DJ here in Bristol TN/VA. I watch your videos ALL the time, because I too can go all out with city management/planning - all thanks to Simcity 4 growing up and Cities: Skylines. I have an interesting challenge for you! (and I hope others can agree too 😉 ) Watching this video reminded me heavily of my hometown, Bristol - a bordertown on the Virginia and Tennessee state lines. We have a stadium of sorts... and most people may or may not know that we have a NASCAR stadium 🏁 . Watching your video gave me very interesting ideas on what to do for our NASCAR stadium, for Bristol to grow. Bristol has some interesting projects heading her way, such as a Hard Rock Cafe & Casino, a new life for Downtown Bristol with new bars and shops, and a new era of music. Interesting fact, Bristol is known as the birthplace of Country Music, but welcomes all! I think it'd be an interesting challenge for you to do a video on NASCAR stadiums and how they've affected cities throughout time. 🏙️
I like these districts. I was a kid when they developed Lo-Do in Denver for the Colorado Rockies when they became an expansion team. It really helped our city grow. However our other stadiums have areas that aren't really part of a development plan. I was in Minneapolis this last weekend. And they BEAUTIFULLY developed the target field area. The whole sports center is amazing and the baseball and basketball stadiums are so close we accidentally tried to get our tickets scanned at the basketball/hockey stadium. But target field was just a couple of blocks away and the whole experience was beautiful.
It’s crazy how much the Deer district has changed Milwaukee and made game day atmosphere so much better. Used to be kinda plain, now it’s starting to get Packer vibes.
Titletown was such a huge success, it's just a no-brainer. Of course, the parasite who owns the Brewers is 100% dead opposed to such levels of development and Miller Park will remain an island surrounded by more parking than you see at Magic Kingdom.
Living in Melbourne I can tell you having a whole area close to the city where major sporting events are being held is great . The ease of getting to these events are great.
As an Orioles fan, I’m a little shocked you neglected to mention Camden Yards. It is the OG of ballparks done in a classic style and located in the city’s central business district
SunTrust Park is a bit of both. Yes, it was built near suburbs, but instead of only paving a parking lot around the stadium, developers created The Battery district.
Houston is trying to redevelop an old iconic stadium, the astrodome, into a mixed use area. You should look into that project, since it goes along with this trend, but using the old stadium itself as the mixed use region anchored by the new NRG stadium nearby
Reminds me of the West Side Stadium NYC almost built to redevelop the Hudson Yards area. It was part of NYC’s bid for the 2012 Olympics and would’ve been the main stadium for the games. But due to several issues like the close proximity to MSG, traffic congestion, the high price to build it, and resource drain the plan was cancelled. They switched to Citi Field as the main stadium. Eventually NYC lost the Olympics to London. While the stadium wasn’t built, it did lead to an extension of the 7 train to the area and new real estate development
There's a proposed pseudo-stadium district in my city in Pittsburgh. They want to expand into the Hill district, a prominently black neighborhood that was regarded as another Harlem in the early 1900's. There is currently a hockey stadium that replaced the civic arena that destroyed most of the Hill district in the 1950s. BIG architects originally had a very interesting plan, which you can google to find the proposal for still, that links the city with the hill district again. I believe they ended up not winning the bid, it sat dormant for a while, then another developer I believe is building some sort of tower and complex. Also interesting that the Hill district and downtown is completely severed by a large series of interchanges and random highways that awkward lead to and away from town. They just started working on it but they plan to 'cap' the highway and cover it entirely by a large green space that connects downtown Pittsburgh with the hill district once again.
I’m glad you mentioned milwaukee right off the bat. The stadium district there has been off to great start. The pubs and restaurants by the forum are a lot of fun and I’m glad the city prevented that district from falling into some of the same holes they’ve let other parts of the city fall into
Damn right I’ve been to ballpark village in St. Louis many times, it is 100% a great example of what can happen with stadium and new district companionship
Stadium traffic kills surrounding businesses. No one who isn't attending a game will go anywhere near a business in the same area as a pro or college stadium within 24 hours of a game because of traffic, and most game attendees walk right by their doors. I live in a university town where the university, the shops and restaurants that have grown around it, and its stadium are adjacent to downtown. Ask any small business owner anywhere near either area what game days do for business, and you'll get a look of horror, followed by a comment to the effect of "Game days are slowly killing my business."
While I like the new fiserv forum in my city, it's absolutely great for the general public and defiantly revitalizes the area, but the revitalization has very confined boundaries. Between the Fiserv Forum and the other side of I-43, it is one of the greatest wealth divides in the city with luxury apartments on one side, and a homeless shelter surrounded by dilapidated buildings on the other.
We kinda have the same thing in my city, but I've noticed a bleed over effect from the highly gentrified areas. The surrounding communities are also slowly improving due to the proximity of wealth.
Deer District in MKE has a lot of opportunity. Milwaukee has a lot of vacant buildings downtown that need filling and the area around the stadium is already very bar heavy so it can only improve. Plus this city LOVES their major league teams. It's a win-win
I live in milwaukee, just a few blocks away from Fiserv Forum, and I can say that the taxpayer spent on it has had more than just economic benefits. Milwaukee used to have a very very bad segregation issue, and the fiserv has definitely helped bridge that. Seeing the community this year was insane, and it looks like it could be creating a lot more interaction between the lower income and higher income portions/populations of the city. Edit: the arena was built on the land that a demolished freeway used to take up, with that freeway serving the main segregator of the city. The fact that the arena was built on the land and payed for its redevelopment saved the city a decent amount, and the dear district couldn’t be in a better place for trying to desegregate the city.
Here in Pittsburgh it has mostly worked out. Football and baseball a few blocks away from each other. A casino was added and now we have a nice strip of places to go. Office buildings have come up around it. Thus the key is multiple venues not next door to each other but almost as mall anchors around the edges. Said area was nothing in the early 1990s, now it has much to offer. Parking garages are now needed so tailgating is almost no more though as they go up.
Wrigley and Fenway are the two examples I can think of that do a good job integrating with the local neighborhood. Wish there were more stadia like them in the US.
Those stadiums were not built to revitalize anything tho. They were placed where they are in a time when people still largely walked and that was likely the edge of the respective cities
Very well done. Stumbled upon your channel and enjoying it. Baltimore was first with the urban stadium renewal with Camden Yards, but you should take a look at District Detroit. There's been a lot of renewal around Comerica Park and Ford Field, and with Little Caesars Arena, all Detroit's teams play within a kilometre of each other. District Detroit has brought development in, but news reports last year questioned the lack of promised housing.
Maybe the teams would not move away if the sport in the US was organized like Gerrmany´s. In Football/Soccer club members always own 51% of the shares, so no investor can play around with the club´s identity. And furthermore there is promotion and relegation. Every city can have clubs that compete and fans will be loyal to those. But it is nice to see that americans try to improve the city cores with new life and commercial activity. Anyway, greetings from Germany :)
Mangobonbon. I wish MLS would have promotion and relegation but with the league being so new the owners want the stability of never having to drop a division and loss money from a TV deal. I guarantee that every large club in Europe would love to get rid of pro/rel so they wouldn’t have to worry about dropping down and losing tv revenue but hopefully that never happens. Especially Germany, they have the best football in the world.
@@jaimevelazquez765 Yes. I think the big difference between these leagues is their history. European football started as an after work sport for normal peoples. The competition was the joy for players and viewers and promotion/relegation was the stakes at risk. MLS and other big US-sports are set up as entertainment shows, without risk of losing money. but if the MLS ever wants to be a top league, they need to add promotion and relegation or the teams will stay mediocre. The big talents go to the competetive leagues with the most clubs and fans.
Mangobonbon As an American, I would love to see pro/rel implemented eventually so we can actually begin to grow MLS like it should be growing. However, sporting culture over here is all profit driven for entertainment purposes like you were saying and to even get club owners to agree on a pro/rel system since it has never been used is going to be nearly impossible. As much as I would personally love to see MLS become more than just a well known mediocre retirement league for Europe’s elite to collect a final paycheck, I don’t think it’s ever going to be competitive with Europe or even Central/South America. It will always be a secondary sport in the States behind American football, basketball, baseball, and even ice hockey.
The US has the example of the Green Bay Packers, which owned by shareholders who primarily live in and around Green Bay. They can't leave their fans; their fans own them. Unfortunately, that's pretty much the only US example.
Just catching up on this. I live in Davis, CA, have friends in Sacramento, and we call DOCO "Taxpayer Mall". The arena has resulted in pretty busy traffic to the imeadiately adjacent businesses, but done zero for the entire surrounding part of Downtown Sacramento. As the same time, Midtown, a very inviting and walkable, and very large, section of town about a mile away, is really thriving. I've love to see an updated video from you about your views of how all of central Sacramento has evolved since you released this one. Thanks!
Wonder what's going to happen to Sacramento Railyards as the MLS deal pulls out. The biggest parking crater in Downtown San Diego, Tailgate Park, is going to be redeveloped by the Padres to be a high rise office complex. There's also SDSU Mission Valley, which has a 35000 seat college football stadium at its center, but is built to be expandable to become an MLS stadium.
St.Louis is an intrested study when it comes to sports. Especially since the Rams left and an MLS team wants to come in. Voters initially denied the funding of MLS stadium, but the people REALLY wanted it here. So the Investors decided to pick up all of the slack and fund it themselves, get approved by all. And Deliver and Stadium to an crumbled part of down on the same street with the other main stadiums. Heck they lost a NFL team but who cares. The Loyal Teams is what cities are after.
The Navy Yard neighborhood in DC is also a good example. They built Nationals Park and later Audi Field for the Washington Nationals and DC United respectively. It’s full of new upscale apartments and restaurants.
Living in Arlington TX home of the new recently built Texas Rangers stadium and Texas Live it nice to see the development that it's coming very long overdue. I love Dallas's Victory district.
Here in Edmonton, Alberta the new Ice District has really done a lot to help a downtown that was dead in the mud to start to pick itself up again. Not to mention breaking up the skyline into something interesting to look at with the new towers.
The city of Houston has the legal ability to annex land and now it includes 5 counties. Cities like Pittsburgh PA are not able to annex land so the city has confined boundaries and cannot receive the tax benefits of the numerous incorporated suburbs.
0:46 I was hoping you'd talk about Detroit; the new Little Caesars arena for NHL has really increased the land value on Woodward supplementing the Q-line streetcar and several construction projects like Hudson's Site. The Q-line is pretty useless apart from that tho lol And 5:20, $150 sounds pretty accurate coming from Oakland
and it has drawn recent controversy for all of the shiny new drawings of a district surrounding the stadium, turning out to be nothing more than a bunch of parking lots.
Toronto's SkyDome, now Rogers Centre was built on underused railway lands in the downtown in the late 80's. That plan did include a mix of office and condos that didn't get built until the late 90's. However, by then it was only condos A LOT of them. One of the plans for this domed stadium was in the Downsivew area, in the suburban north end of the city.
I watched your Planning Ancient Rome video on Nebula it was great and the videos on curiosity stream are excellent I couldn't recommend it enough. totally worth the $12 for the year
I know this is coming almost a year and a half after release, but just found the channel and working through your vids (awesome content, btw!!!) An additional example, and maybe one of the earliest was T-Mobile Center (formerly Sprint Center) in Kansas City, MO, opening in 2007. The across-the-street Power and Light District is exactly the district you've described with the One/Two/Three Light luxury apartments which are heavily subsidized by the city. Only problem was a professional sports team never materialized. However, it has played host to tons of concerts, local events and college basketball tourneys for years, so it kinda lives up to its initial goals, just lacking that consistent big name attraction of a pro sports team. I've lived in the KC metro most of my life and it definitely improved our downtown and crossroads district just to the south. However, it has started some hard core gentrification in the area. I think it is a net positive for now, but we'll see what the future holds.
"This is the ultimate free market, fiscally conservative approach going forward" I thought fiscal conservatives want lower taxes and government spending
I used to live a mile from Nationwide Arena, home of the Blue Jackets, and the building itself holds a lot more events than just hockey. usually concerts, now that I think about it. The city also tore down the old minor league ballpark (it was like 50 years old) and built another one across the street from Nationwide (ticket price unchanged, yay!), it also hosts the odd event aside from baseball, but honestly there are like 70 home games/year. It's also next to an outdoor concert venue... and a new MLS stadium is being built for the Crew just on the other side of elevated railroad tracks b/c the city wants to do something with the land the old one was on... which admittedly makes some sense as the old one was adjacent to the State fairgrounds. Hopefully rock on the range will still be held there
Raiders owner Mark Davis literally couldn’t afford to build a stadium without the local government. His entire net worth is from owning the team, so if he’d have to sell it for him to have enough money to build a stadium which would defeat the purpose.
The Downtown East area in Minneapolis used to be a sea of parking lots. Since the new stadium went up, almost all those parking lots have been replaced with mixed use low-rise to mid-rise apartments and even a couple parks.
3:29 to drive home the point of how much room the parking takes up, the parking lots for FedEx field is used for Autocross on non game weekends/days. They also host car shows here and there in the open areas, sometimes both of them at the same time.
SoFi in LA, Chase Center in SF, and Oracle Park also in SF are all privately financed amazing stadium areas w/o hundreds of millions of dollars in public money.
There have been success stories but far too many failures. Stadiums on their own do not bring revitalization their needs to be special circumstances in play as well
I think that in general these are a bad idea, but Columbus, Ohio (my city) has had a lot of success with our Arena District. We have an NHL arena, minor league baseball stadium, concert venue, and will soon have an MLS stadium in ours. It has totally revitalized the area (the arena is on the site of a literal prison), and since Columbus’ downtown is fairly small it has had a large impact in downtown as a whole. I think its success has been aided my rapid growth in the city at the same time, leading to a need for entertainment, housing, etc.
4:40 Scott Walker had a good economic argument. "If we lose the team the state will lost the tax revenue from the players. This is an invesment in that revenue." Can't remember the exact number but think it was like 12 year pay off on that metric alone (on just the State's contribution).
I love the parks and rec reference, did you know that the homeless the guy in the slide from the pilot comes back in a suit in the series finale to ask them to fix a swing? Great show
Love seeing two things I enjoy, sports and geography, come together! I think it’s worth considering that entertainment value doesn’t necessarily show up in cost analysis. It’s also worth noting the positive effects that the district has had on changing perceptions of Sacramento. Coming from near San Francisco, the city has far more appeal now thanks to the new district.
I really like the questions you raise. New York City turned down Bloomberg's initiative to build a stadium in what has become Hudson Yards, mostly because it was corporate welfare. Instead, government money was used anyway to build a baseball stadium on Long Island. By reputation, Hudson Yards seems better integrated into New York than a stadium there would have been, but public money was thrown away anyway, just out in Queens county rather than in New York.
you do know queens county is part of nyc, and there was already plans to replace shea stadium before there was a olympic bid. why shouldnt the city show more loyalty to a team that stay more loyal to it then to a team that bounce on them years ago and now wants over a billion dollars for stadium for them. the city end up spending less then half on a baseball stadium while keeping its team.atleast with a baseball stadium you get more action with 81 games plus concerts and now soccer compare to just 8 games and just a few other events
The plan was to build a football stadium in Hudson yards, to try and lure one of the football teams in NJ back to NY not baseball stadium. The Mets wanted to stay in their spot in Queens and put their new baseball stadium there because of the numerous road and mass transit connections. Robert Moses got that location right.
The West Side Stadium was entirely dependant on if NYC hosted the 2012 Olympics. Once that was not happening, they built a baseball stadium for the Mets right next to their old Shea Stadium in Queens, which is still apart of NYC anyway brainlet
6:35 interesting fact, that photo is the original McCormick Place convention center building, which burnt down only a few years after completion. It was replaced with a new structure, currently known as the "Lakeside Center" quarter of the current complex
Love your videos so much. Recently I’ve been searching on RU-vid about why there is downtown and uptown, but I can’t find any video about this topic. When I think about this kind of topic, I always think about you. Can you make a video about it? I was living in Malaysia for decades and there is very obvious downtown and uptown areas. But now I’m living in Taiwan, and reminds me of life in China, the residential and commercial areas are totally mixed together, I want to know more about it, and I believe there are many of your audiences are from all around the world. Anyway, thank you very much for the great channel and great videos.
Busch Stadium (the current one) was constructed with public entities covering a mere 10% of the project. Fast forward nearly 15 years and Ballpark Village and Busch Stadium is a success story. Because the Cardinals have a large fan base geographically, Ballpark Village is a tourist destination. Having been an Uber driver, I have dropped off at Ballpark Village many fans from out of state. The local public entities have seen a large return on investment from funding the project. If done right, public funding for stadium districts can be a win-win for all parties involved. But too often there are cities where the team owners want a stadium for free and the cities are afraid to lose their teams. And those are the cities where the taxpayer might have good roads and schools except their dollars are going to the bank for a stadium.
I’m surprised you didn’t mention Nats Park and Audi Field in DC. Nats Park was one of the big elements that spurred the massive redevelopment of the Navy Yard/ Capitol Waterfront neighborhood. And now the new Audi Field a few blocks away in Buzzard Point which is starting its own massive redevelopment.
The San Francisco 49'ers moved from their stadium inside the city to one built in a former business tech park in far away the suburb of Santa Clara (2 counties away from SF)
Houston has NRG as the football stadium (also multi-use entertainment); Reliant Stadium for basketball and performances, the baseball stadium (single use), not to mention a symphony orchestra hall, a ballet and opera theater with two stages, the Alley Theater with two stages, Hobby Theater for musicals, and numerous smaller theaters and performance centers. These are essentially special purpose facilities and all but one (football) are located downtown.
I think it depends on the type of facility that's being built. An indoor arena for hockey and basketball makes more sense for cities to build than a football stadium or ballpark 1) smaller size, so it's cheaper 2) more standard configuration and dimension: a baseball playing surface/seating configuration really doesn't make sense for any other type of sport or event 3) indoor vs. outdoor: an indoor arena can be used all year round, regardless of season or weather 4) more tenants: an NBA/NHL multi purpose arena has at least 82 home dates a season compared to 10 for the NFL 5) versatility: arena can be used for conventions and concerts while a football or baseball stadium really can't most of the time 6) smaller footprint: arenas don't need gigantic parking lots
Columbus, Ohio resident here. For those unfamiliar, the Major League Soccer team here, the Columbus Crew, is getting their new stadium after their former owner threatened to leave town. At first, I was all about #SaveTheCrew and was super stoked about new ownership and new stadium. But now almost 2 years later, I feel like the city got duped. The previous owner, Anthony Precourt, threatened to leave for Austin, Texas if he didn’t get a publicly funded stadium. New owners came in, claimed the taxpayers would get a good deal for the stadium and area development (part of our downtown is literally called the Arena District because of the hockey arena built decades earlier), but now Cbus is paying even MORE than originally promised. Thank you for putting what I’ve felt about this into a concise, informative video!
