Timestamped for your viewing convenience. Please drop a like on the video if you enjoy it. Check out Kalle's startingstrongman.com for a wealth of info.
@@MattRhodesSport Every contest in strongman has bad years more often than in other sports due mainly to the rotating variety of events, multiple changes in judging standards per year, and relatively short careers of most strength athletes. Compare it to something like racing where the event almost never changes, there's maybe one judging standard change per year, and the average career of an athlete is twice as long. One of those two situations is great for reliability, and the other is not.
I think if Trey hadn’t gotten hurt I’d chalk the whole thing up to “they weren’t prepared for the weather and they’ll do better next time” but I’m so gutted that he got such a serious injury on such a dumb event.
Dumb event is correct, and even though Brian tested out the equipment, it probably should have been vetted more seriously by multiple people. While I was watching it, I could obviously see that there was some sort of increased friction that made it progressively more difficult as the competitors came along. I hate to say it, but I believe that their failure to foresee any issues due to weather and lack of testing caused Trey's injury. More people should have been able to finish.
@@Holisticbarbarian As soon as i saw the brian shaw video about testing the events, i instantly coment how stupid it was, nad how the fuck cna brian not say anything about it?
@@wolololer maybe because brian dont want to be a so called "rude" man and be a "asshole" you know how easy people get their feelings hurt in todays day and age.... but i 100% agree... the friction and the iron bull doesnt seem right they need to make it more smooth or use other materials on the surface area...
When they talked to Brian Shaw right before the sled pull started he said something to the effect of "I think we finally got it ironed out." But, his tone and expressions told another story. It was fcked and they had done all they could and now they were hoping for the best. That was the feeling I got anyway.
As you also mentioned Iron bull wasnt supposed to include a rope initially so another arm over arm event made sense in planning. In the end it turned out to be basically two arm over arm events which feels ignorant, but it wasnt intentional.
I don’t understand why Hooper can deadlift and Tom is just okay. Honestly, when Thor comes back he will already be ahead of Tom on deadlift. Thor was great at everything and phenomenal at throwing and deadlift.
Scoring method was changed after second event and points were changed (deadlift). Mateusz and Maxim lost points from 1,5 to 0. It's weird. Rogue Inv 2021, 2022 - they used method from ASC and suddenly chanded it.
Mitch gets leniency from judges because he’s the trending strongman right now. We know that shows cater towards certain athletes, and he just happens to be the current star.
I felt the same way about the Rouge Invatational as i did the Arnold's...something was not quite right about them. The stone throwing at the ASC was kind of stupid, the bull drag as well. Bad refereeing. Mitch didn't lock out the log to arms length long enough...and that loading race was weird, would have preferred natural stones
Agree he said he read rule book but why have a whistle then someone says go,log lift should be better refereed as I think Mitch lifts were dubious in log
I hope the relevant organizers of different shows take note. This platforms helps fans of the sport of strongman get their points across in the hope of improving the standard in which competitions are organized and run. Thanks Matt and Kalle for the unbiased opinions.
Couldn't agree more with your analysis. I think the Tower of Power and Roguer Coaster were good, but why not Apollon's Wheels instead of boring old log for reps? I agree that the refereeing was suspect. The Iron Bull could have been good with more testing. It wasn't consistent. The Dual was short and a real anti climax to end the show. I also agree that having the winner of the last event go last is the best system. Poor Trey. Hope he can recover asap.
@@MattRhodesSport Do you think that this can affect the sport overall in a negative way if things don't change - whether it causes friction between athletes or affects fan turnout ?
I think some judges have been pressured by the federation they work for (mvm with wsm/giants) to give weaker calls and only fixing it when they get too much hate
Tom should have won. But if he isnt worrying about it im not. Had they had fingle fingers, evan would have got a posium win. The whole thing was a shit show though. It was a crossfit contest with a stronman expedition. Poor trey deserved better. That bull was stupid
If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas With axle who knows what would have happened, apollons wheels is a fixed axle which is very different from a normal axle. Tom and Evan weren’t training on fixed axles and Mateusz was which probably would have really thrown them off like we’ve seen with them in the past when how they train is different to what’s in competition and with fingers who knows maybe they’d have slow transitions
Totally agree on the contingency planning for the weather, late testing on the iron bull event and the duel "Go" and buzzer start of the event. Rogue needs to do better...
The sled didn't get harder. Why is everyone surprised that the more statically strong guys who did good at the tower of power bit the dust at a brutal harnessed pull? Go check the vehicle pull at WSM this year and compare the results to this one. The placings are similar. If it was just too heavy.
@MattRhodesSport I don't want to go back and forth on it too much but if there was something making it more difficult as it went, then what? Nobody seems to be able to answer that or point to the discrepancy. My point of mentioning the WSM vs Rogue pulls is that if it was actually getting more difficult, then we should have seen something anomalous in the performances; such as Oleskii beating Mitch. I will agree that as an event, it was subpar. It certainly didn't have a better look than a vehicle pull. Two themes are behind strongman that we allude to a lot but never express outright: history/nostalgia and a respect for mechanical inclination. This event is where the latter overpowered the former. They wanted to build something way more than just going with the tried and true. The presentation of the event thus suffered.
I think best thing out of the whole comp was the broadcast (yep, I know they didn't show the podium ceremony). No lag in the live stream, current results in every event clearly visible, enjoyed watching it
@@Julian-mk7hd because Strongman win/lose is all about which events. The events taken out really suited a couple athletes who were in contention but lost the opportunity
Trey getting injured like that really soured the comp for me. So unnecessary. Regardless of how bad this comp was, as you say in the video, Rogue does put a lot into the sport and it's important to recognise that. I hope they can learn from this and improve. This year's comp felt totally soulless to me. I might be biased because the Shaw Classic is the only major comp I've attended in person, but you can't deny that it is a well oiled machine. Right now that's right up there with the Arnold for me as a fan. Leagues ahead of the archaic WSM show.
Hooper didn't play fair. The judges didn't signal TRAY about knees locked. FROD and many more unfair calls and judges taking time on calls. COST THE GUYS 🤑 I THINK GETTING TRAY OUT OF THE WAY WAS PLAN😢
It looked like the judge was jacking with all the top contenders except hooper. they even let hooper get away with stuff. The year sexey Lexey got a bad call to his favor. the other strongman competing didn't have the judge taking there time on stuff or playing games with them. 😢 she can't walk or talk but she / money can do anything. PS I think Hooper is a good strongman. I just seen too many good judge not able to do there job. Was they paid off!
Douglas Edmunds was a strict judge! Rarely any "cheating" allowed, a bit too strict or atleast unfairly strict sometimes in my opinion, but certainly not giving away any free reps!
Great video Matt really enjoying the series. Any chance you could upload these to be downloaded as a podcast, somewhere like google podcasts or YT music? Unless I am missing something and they are already somewhere else. It's only because I would like to listen to them whilst driving to work and in podcast form seems to work the best. Keep up the great content.
Mitchell Hooper is being pushed at all costs. They made Trey hold deadlift for like 45 minutes but Mitchell’s rep 7 on the log never even got near lockout.
Who was in charge of organising this mess? I hope Rougue learn from this and hire some better people to avoid embarrassment next year. I like Mitch a lot but he better be careful or he'll be labelled a cheatin' champ and will harm his legacy. I feel for Trey the most. Also Tom's victory was stolen from him by the dopes organising. Just my take.
Strongman events need electronic “beep” countdown systems like in cycling for example. It would be the same every time and athletes would get used to the speed and rhythm of the countdown and knew when to start.
I've got to give them a big thumbs up for live coverage though, and on RU-vid, not having to sign up to some other site etc. Same with the Arnold's, I'll watch all the events, easily accessible 👍 As opposed to WSM, in the UK they don't even bother to air it until Christmas/New Year.
To offer a little push back: for the overhead press event, watching the replay I can’t see when the referee is giving the down signal except for the last two or so reps for Hooper, and he waited for the down. For the last event, regardless of what the athletes were told, ever athlete during the first heat went on the “go” not the horn. During the second heat it appeared only Hooper and Mateusz went on the “Go,” but you gotta wonder why the other athletes wouldn’t do the same considering the first heat. It’s sad things were so subjective. I’d love less controversy and have obvious winners.
Yeah the later reps are slower with fatigue, it’s the earlier ones that there were clear discrepancies on but it’s all on the refs. The last event. ‘Go’ or ‘buzzer’ was such unnecessary confusion.
If you watch the first heat back and look carefully, you'll see that all but 1 athlete technically started before the go or the horn. What a mess and so anti-climactic as an event.
They could probably improve the iron bull a lot by simply mounting HDPE slider boards to the bottom of the wood. Then if they added wooden cleats for the athletes to grab and/or push off from, they wouldn't need the rope. It could be a good event with a little tweaking. Too bad it totally sucked this year.
I've never really agreed with most timed for reps events. WSM had an apparatus for overhead for reps that was a giant barrow with a man dropping another barrel in for each lift. It was timed and the man dropping the barrel could be a few seconds difference in his pace every time he dropped a barrel. I felt, and still do, that factors of that nature are unfair to the athletes. Athletes should win or lose on their own merit, not because a timer and a judge and some other random guy picking his nose can't sync up. Sorry for the rant. Y'all have a badass day 🤘 Edit: now I'm second guessing myself. I cannot remember if that event was overhead for reps or deadlift for reps. Pretty sure it was late 80s or early nineties, I'll try n look it up 🤘🍻🤘
Barrel load squat and deadlift have been over the years mate. You are correct, outside factors should not influence results, everything must be a level playing field.
Yeah, if someone is last, they need the slight advantage of going last. The leader does not. Also, no one is going to throw an event purposely just to come last, so they can go last in the last event. The leader should lead the way and go first. The person in last should go last to help learn the best way to do it and know what their goal is. It would make comps closer and more interesting.
the only "controversy" is the poor execution and understanding of heavy lifting events, they can build cool equipment sure but is it logistical to then pick and move said equipment AS INTENDED... the Iron Bull was a joke, and i dont think anybody understood that if you are moving this inside because it is wet, then the WOODEN RAILS would be moist just due to the extra moisture in the air, and then trying to slide the "1000 lb sled" on steel rails rubbing against moist wooden beams, it would have added like 500 pounds of force needed to move... and it would have only gotten harder as it went on... just like it did, Kieleskowski killed it because he is the biggest dude there and went first... it was a terrible event and needs to be stricken from the books...
Wasn't aware there was controversy? If i had to guess though, i would assume that it was not fully testing an implement until a couple hours before the event, when it is too late to do any significant changes/adjustments.
I’m a massive Hooper fan and I don’t think you can just shrug off how great he is by saying “the judging just favors him”. That’s on the judges and those running the events. We need a universal standard of judging or at least a CLEAR standard for each competition that is not only told to the athletes, but also to the fans.
@@KalleSWBeck After reviewing the footage from the Log Press, he did lock out his elbows properly and could make eye contact with the judges. From this he got down calls. Should they tighten the standards and make them hold in lock out longer? Maybe, but per the rules I think he properly completed the reps.
@@MattRhodesSport I’d have to agree. We are at a turning point in the sport. Shaw and others legitimized the sport and made it a sport that athletes will build careers off of. The issue is now that we need standardization to be able to keep up with the evolution of the sport. If we want a legitimate sport that has a future to develop, we also need solid standards to build upon.
While everyone (myself included) would’ve preferred to see the axle over the log, I assume it was an athlete safety thing. With how hard the iron bull was on everyone and how hard everyone had to pull the rope, then going to another arm over arm, they must have felt that the axle was the bigger risk on biceps than log. They wouldn’t want to see 2 big injuries in their comp.
That sled pull seemed to get harder, it'd be good if they "Rogue" could have tested it properly, they said Brian Shaw tested it, and that's a good idea. But like you say, even moisture can affect things like that over a short amount of time. Having to set it up in a different location, that 15m sticking point, there was obviously something wrong.
@MattRhodesSport yeah, that's not good, wasn't it that event one of the guys lost a shoe as well? I was surprised no-one grabbed it to move it out of the way.
Im gonna be honest i think Rogue gets way to much praise for what it is. It treats strongman like its a side show despite money thrown at it. I think its massively boring to watch in a stadium the vibe was just nonexistent, this is why i prefer indoor arenas because you can get the crowd involved consistently. Events just seems Rogue put to much time into making their implements looking cool than taking the time to test equipment like the bull pull. I heard that Mitch is now buddy buddy with Rogue and looks like they gonna try him win comps. There is a reason why Big Z doesnt get chosen to ref because he will be strict to the core over a log rep
Hoopers eyes were closed so he wasn’t even looking for the down signal ….. its pathetic they can’t get judging right…and a false start in an event usually is a recall for all athletes to restart or disqualification …. They don’t have balls haha
for me the question is: do we want to see athletes grind for those reps? if we dont, then strictly enforce rules if we do, then give them some leeway. when they are grinding, their technique wont be perfect. reward for their triumph.
I honestly don't see the issue with Mitch's reps on the log. I have heard many times that the rule is you only have to hold for a second. I think part of the issue is that all of his lockouts were quick and he was stable. Some guys press it out but then wobble around a bit and the judge waits for it to be "under control". Mitch appeared to be under control to me at lockout, hence the quick down signal. Perhaps I'm missing something, but that's the way I see it. I 100% agree that they should have done the axle indoors rather than log. And not enough testing was done on the Iron Bull. There definitely seemed to be issues with that.
Love the showmanship and unique events. I’m a huge Mateusz fan but I think something happened with the bull. Disappointed in the weather but did their best with the show while keep everyone safe.
@@GetaVe tell him what? That injuries happen in strongman. Pretty sure he’s aware of the risks he was taking to win $130k. Wish him a fast and full recovery
Strange to call it hate, rather than honest reviewing and almost everyone that watched and athletes who participated even have made posts acknowledging some big problems.
24:00 Imo just because the referee is allowing you to do half reps it's not fair to the other athletes (unless they are doing the same thing) and to the fans in general. I get it that everyone wants to win and get the money and the title, and that most of the casual fans won't even care, but the real fans will remember these little things. Winning in a sport is not just about winning, it's about how you win. It's bad sportsmanship, that's what it is. 30:00 Agreed, at least 1-2 points for winning an event. I get that a strongman should be all-roung strong, but a strongman that's 3-4th in each event is not the strongest to me. I'd appreciate someone desolating everyone in each event with a huge gap. It would also push the athletes to go all out in each event, instead of strategizing how to save energy, so to win the comp with a small margin. Strongman is not chess! It's not about strategy, it's about those amazing feats of strengh that leave you in awe! That's why everyone loves to watch Mateusz, cuz he gives his all, and goes for those records despite having no need to giving us a show we all want to see (the other thing is that after deadlift he was the 1st to go... but you get the idea). Unfortunetely in order to win in strongman you have to be either insanely strong in everything like Thor was or be "boring" like Martins (sorry dude, I love u) and Hooper.
Hooper is smart in a weasel kind of way. Imo he's a very unlikable athlete, very arrogant. His comments at the end of ASC are unforgivable, no matter what big Loz says
@@likeyou3317 when asked what his victory meant to him, he replied "I'm not sure that it means much to be honest", in a very arrogant way. My jaw dropped to the floor. Many people were shocked by his words, judging by comments online. Later on he explained what he meant, strongman is nothing but a segway for him to create a brand that will eventually help millions by promoting health and exercise. No matter how well meaning he may be, he's a massive dickhead. You don't just shit all over a sport and one of its most iconic comps just because you're insanely gifted at it. Prime Thor would wipe the floor with Hooper, and Thor never showed anything but respect for the sport. Same goes for peak Brian / Big Z.
Really wanted to see mateusz on axel :/ poor guy can’t catch a break. Been going to Asc for ten years now and the invitational just killed my excitement for it. Would like to see a fully healed confident mateusz vs tom in like a magnus ver magnusson classic style contest . Funny that toms grandfather was from Poland
Rogue was awful, at least the Deadlift and Arm over Arm are not difficult to mess up but Bull Pull was bad and wasnt safe, they should have tested this event a month before, i think a tank would been cooler as its vehicle that doesnt get pulled often, taking out the Axle was piss poor decision and id love to know reasons why they took out, Fingles fingers understandably had to be taken out due to safety i think log for reps is easier as it can be done inside, u cant tell me that Axle cant be done the same. For me i struggle to get excited with the Rogue i feel the crowd being in a outdoor stadium just ruins the vibe for a strongman show thats why i loved log indoors as die hard strongman fans and athletes were together and oh btw the duel was ment 3 rounds then changed it last minute, but it was awful for a last event, why change an event which works to an event which doesnt work
Should we talk about Evan. I think his strength is insane and he is one of the strongest in the world but if your gonna be an actor be that. Dont embarrass the straight world.
How about we stop trying to creating crazy and visually appealing events and just stick to the basics and classic events. I want to see heavy weights being lifted not some silly arse bull being pulled
Fair take but I disagree. Half of what separates strongman from powerlifting and Olympic lifting is its roots in spectacle and entertainment. I want events that are legitimate tests of strength and reasonably safe for the athletes, but both the unpredictability and the visual spectacle I see as fundamental elements of the sport.
I agree. The show was lacking, and the reffing was terrible. They gave the down signal to some very shitty lockouts on the deadlift, then made Trey hold for 10 seconds to fix a lockout that was better than 90% of everyone's we saw prior.
FYI, Mitch said in the athletes meeting that they were told to start on GO not the buzzer. But he did already start before the go. Also in the standings he did get a time docked for false start which put him in 2nd place for that event.
@@MattRhodesSport I also wonder, there was no mention of it from any of the athletes that I watched videos from though. Stoltmans, Mitch, Singleton...none mentioned anything about what the penalty would be. stil interesting though.
This whole comp ended up being an arm heavy thing. It is very unfortunate with the events they chose. I'm honestly surprised that by the end there was nobody with arm injuries. Would have been nice to have a little more variation.
The iron bull should have had railroad ties that the competitors could use both feet and hands. That they thought it was possible without the rope shows a bit of a lack of testing but Brian demonstrated the issue with the set up. They had Brian do the coaster with 3 bags and they did 2 with the competitors and they added the rope to the bull so they did try to adapt.
