The Rules Committee Responds to The Commander Community | Huge Bans | MTG 

This should go without saying, but I said it in this episode and I will say it again: Do not harass or threaten anyone from the Rules Committee or anyone else online! That is never acceptable no matter the circumstance. Constructive Criticism is always welcome, but never harassment.

Not going to sugarcoat it, the people destroying these cards are going to feel really dumb if the EDH and cEDH banlists get split.

The only thing these bans have confirmed is that I will be printing proxies

To let you know, tEDH is Tournament commander. There are cedh decks that arent quite good enough to play in tournaments. There are also talks in the cedh community to have our own rc and banlist but nothing in stone.

Hey, you know what? This is fine. Just don't expect people to pay for _anything_ in the double-digits, let alone triple digits ever again.

The official rules originally said that ost of a card was a factor for banning. The rules comittee should just come out and say edh is proxy friendly everywhere. Price should absolutely be a major factor.

To me, Nadu Dockside and Lotus were all on a "watch list" but Crypt did catch me off guard. The price was the only thing that kept it out of casual.

The bans don't bother me. The fact that they waited for years so they could sell more cards at inflated prices bothers me a LOT!

Sell everything and proxy. Why spend hundreds on cardboard when a printed copy is all thats needed to play a game

Wotc should rollback to 2019 when the game was still decent.

Saying the rules committee doesnt benefit or think of monetary changes to the cards but some of these people including the advisory group are in different ways sponsored by Wizards is mindblowing lol. There is a clear conflict of interesr when some of these people have channels promoting new sets. They literally benefit from selling new cards and killing the outside market. Cmon

So the other must answer question is when are the other accelerators getting banned: Grim monolith, Mana vault, Gemstone Mine, Ancient Tomb, and the 3 Moxes

The correct way to do this would be to print all 4 at common for the next 5 sets then ban them when the price is $0.10 a card. Yay no one cares they are banned anymore.

Make cedh it's own format. Simple. Both sides have arguements

They can sit there and blow smoke all they want. The fact reamins that the 3 expensive card on this ban list were printed, marketed, and sold at premium prices during the past year by WotC despite knowing they were on the table for a banning. predatory and a huge betrayal pf player trust. Rule 0 was a reasonable way of talking about power level of a deck before you played a game of commander. Idk about everyone else but ill never buy product or singles again. Strictly proxies because now how can i as a player confidently buy into this game because its a good card deemed by the communuty. If thats the kneejerk reaction then instead of printing them at mythic as they have been knock them down to uncommon/rare. Id be way more ok losing money on this game if i could still play what i wanted instead of being "uh yea that card is too good so we arent letting you play it anymore."

They did not address to why "Sol Ring" was not considered, when the "B&R" reason/description for "Mana Crypt" exactly applies to both cards. The only difference is that one card is $300 and just reprinted as a chase card in COI, and the other is a $5 card reprinted in every commander set and Secret Lair as a throwaway.

Sold my entire collection and will only proxy moving forward. Wizards will not get another dollar from me

Dark ritual back won games by turning 1 back then get used to it

Bring back the watch list. We knew dockside was on definitely a card we all knew was possible, same with nadu without notice....but crypt was out of the blue and was a couple hundred dollars. I never would have traded everything i did had i known it was on the watchlist.

Anyone else out there that disregards the rules committee? We dont need a tiny group dictating what we are allowed to play with. Everyone, please stop going along with this crap lol

Marvel set print run to include double sided tokens. Jeweled Lotus side one, 0/1 Plant side two...

The RC lost all credability for my Pod with this one and we will no longer be following their rules. Commander is supposed to be a tabletop format to play with your collection, we're just going to continue to do that. No desire to buy any card over 20 now. Any of these three being banned is rough, all 3 at once is just a sign that the RC isn't as keyed into the community as they think. They have no consistency in their justification.

If your scared to learn to cast spells and scared to not find answers why do you play

For point 6, they didnt answer it at all. They said they discussed fast mana, but nothing is noted about this banning. Or more importantly, if things like they have already decided to ban Sol Ring and have let WoTC know but need lead time to get them out of pre cons.

After a day of thinking of it more I think it's very unfair to local card shops. For the individual losing a couple hundred dollars shouldn't be the issue of financial investment concerning. But this ban very much undermines the lgs market. I agree full support for a watch list yes the more casual might not be aware of it but the more casual is less likely to be abusing them in 1st place. So think a watch list is a nessarily courtesy to the local game shops.

I dont trust them in term of personal finance there is realy easy way to sell things without people knowing its you

I can see and understand emergency and immediate bans for cards that have been in the format for less than 6 months that have warped the game play. Cards that have been reprinted recently and/or have been legal for multiple years should get an advanced warning. In the case of Mana Crypt, Jeweled Lotus, and Dockside, the rules committee could have said that they will be banned effective 9/1/2025. This gives people time to play with them or sell them if before they effectively become worthless. Think of how powerful standard cards keep their value until the rotation date nears and they slowly start decreasing. As far as advanced notifications hurting casual players because they are not in the know, those casual players likely don't care about the Rules Committee and are going to keep playing those cards casually.

In the hypothetical situation that wotc would legally have to "buy back" cards that get banned, no card would ever be banned again. This is a major middle finger to people who've spent a lot of money on the game.

I’m a yugioh player getting into magic. Do banned cards ever come back? Yugioh bans powerful cards, but with powercreep, some cards that wrecked havoc years ago come back and don’t make much of an impact. It takes a long time for a reversal, don’t get me wrong, but I’m just trying to understand why it’s so apocalyptic for you guys.

Why buy any cards? Proxy all cards why spend money at all on this game. They only care about money. Not yours our mine but how much they can make.

I saw someone literally battered and deep fried their two copies of mana crypt because of this.... The community could just be the new theme for the next unhinged set at this point.

The thing is Wizards, the seconday market has made it into a financial invest not everyone likes playing against proxies, I personally dont mind them at all but you should be okay with proxies if your claiming it shouldnt be a financial investment

I could not disagree more. Magic the Gathering is a COLLECTIBLE Card Game. It may not be the best vehicle for investment but is and in some way always undoubtedly will be an investment.

4 or 5 people making these kind of dramatic decisions that affect millions of people both in enjoyable gameplay and in a MASSIVE financial way is beyond ridiculous. Of course they will deny that they benefited financially by moving their cards before the announcement.... They HAVE to deny it, they are going attempt to reinforce their denial. The community knows the truth. Wizards makes the cards, we pour out millions upon millions of dollars buying your product to get the " chase" cards, we get lucky and get a few chase cards and are able to redeem at least some value for our money spent by getting a card of some good value like mana crypt, jeweled lotus, dockside etc. then you say nah we are going to ban these cards and voila, the players have lost massive $. Why would I ever spend money on these expensive master sets anymore if you're just going to ban the cards with actual value. The owner of my local lgs was telling me he had a difficult enough time selling commander masters because it's so expensive... Now who's going to buy it???

Why not make CEDH its own format in commander?

6. just confirmed something I was worried about. They admitted that Wizards was aware it was under consideration. This just felt like them admitting to it and then back pedal on "oh we didn't sit on anything though". I'm sorry no, this is just another example of wizards being shitty. I hope this gets the dnd treatment.

What I'm wondering is, did the people on the rules committee sell all their banned cards before they made the announcement? I bet they did.

From a gameplay standpoint this was a good change, lets get that outta the way Now lets take a moment to consider how slimy this is. 2 of the 3 collector boosters coming with fiab have all their value tied up in mana crypt for one, and jeweled lotus for the other Aw shucks aint that too bad, just happened to happen i guess. Not like the rules comittee talks to wizards a year in advance to bans, and wizard knew this was coming when they decided to unload product only they knew was dead at full value as part of a secret lair drop Squeeze a few more drops of money out of their community I should also say i didnt order a featival in a box, ive never ordered a secret lair. But it should be clear to everyone what a slimy move that is By wizards i suppose the rc is off the hook on that. Although its my opinion that these bans impact casual not at all. High power a fair bit and positively, and cedh a ton, and it remains to be scene in what way I think positively but only if they ban rogsi, or rog specifically Either way though, in casual which is what they say they ban for i have never had an issue with these cards. They havr hardly ever shown up in those games and the few times they did it wasnt a feel bad for us, it was a feel bad for who played them after they got bullied for being a pubstomper for 15 minutes Now again, i am glad theyre out of commander overall, i even think this could with a few morw changes lead to some positive changes to cedh But the rc is a joke. They handled this awfully, they gave wizards advanced warning which they used to unload dead product at percieved full price And this wasnt a ban that adheres to what they claim their "philosophy" is. The fact is they have no philosophy. This ban impacts nothing in casual. Does impact highpower. And impacts cedh in a huge way, but if they did this to make that format better they i think need to ban rograk alongside these otherwise this could make that format worse. Well see but thats what im thinking We need a rc that actually knows what theyre doing. I dont advocate harassment but criticism is nit harassment

I’m pretty sure they sold their copies

While I may believe some of the answers to questions there are a few I dont. Over the past few months there were fluctuations in the markets on these particular cards in a huge downward trend. I cant believe it wasnt because some were made aware. Thats just one in particular but there are other parts too.

I'm thinking it's about time for Captain's 2024-2025 format to be updated to also disregard needless/poorly thought-out bans.

Watch rudy!

Look guys another shitty take from Commander quarters what a shock

A watchlist should be useless if the cards in question have a reasonable price, like 30$ at most... and no 200$

[17:40] Difference is flash was best thing around, this leaves thoracle/breach standing alone as the best thing to do

Mana vault almost up to 1k... stupid wotc....

ive collected and played since original inistrad im selling pretty much any card over 50$ and printing out proxies now i have 0 confidence in the games price stability now

First I think cEDH should do away with the banlist. They should have their own committee then instead of bans they should follow Highlander and assign point values to cards. That way card values don’t fluctuate as much because the formates are different. As for casual, there is no way to fix the formate. Sol ring to some is op and Sol ring to others isn’t. It’s hard to control a formate based on how people feel and even with rule zero being a thing you can’t expect everyone to bring back up cards to change their decks based on how the rule zero convo went.

Why did I watch this video.....

You can’t sell 250$ collector boxes and say it’s not an investment.

They 100% knew. They admit they were planning on banning them while simultaneously reprinting them in multiple set over the past couple years and most recently included the 2 collectors packs in FESTIVAL IN A BOX on the pretense it would attract money. Players wanted Mana Crypt and JL. You cant have both them admitting they were planning it but then turn around and defend them saying we didnt know when we were gunna pull the trigger. Dont be naive THEY KNEW

I saw someone recommended having a recommended list rather than a ban list for Commander. People can play with or without the recommended list. Tournaments can be held with or without the recommended list. Add Rule 0 conversations on top of that, and you can have the best of both worlds. Cards keep their prices, no card gets banned, but more cards can be put on the recommended list. A Rules Committee who Recommends Cards.

I just think the whole thing is scummy. Yes, threats are not cool. Period. However, to say magic isn’t a financial investment… say that to my LGS that just lost probably close to a thousand dollars, if not more, on stock that went rotten overnight. What I don’t like is that these are chase cards in sets being released while they know they are about to be canceled… I watch a channel that has a committee member as a host, who received free, advanced product from WotC, who has their affiliate links and so much financial involvement… while they know the chase cards for those sets are being banned… Not only that, the bannings don’t make sense. “They are powerful if abused” is the only real reason given… but that’s literally every spell…

Love how they just start it off saying, 'you have no way to prove it so trust us bro' yeah no. Insider trading has been an open secret for years. That right there is one of the many reasons why no one trust the RC or Hasbro.

The rules committee should be slimming down the ban list, not adding to it. Telling people how they should be playing feels like it goes directly against the spirit of commander.

I’ll never buy packs again, proxies forever.

To all the people throwing a party about this, there will be other powerful cards filling the vacuum. They will be printing more powerful cards. The next big out of nowhere ban could be your pet powerful card that you spent money on.

The irony of people who cried over playing against dockside, jeweled lotus, and mana crypt and are now telling others to cry more about the bans is not lost on me.

I'm sorry, but there is no way they did not sell their cards prior to the ban. Of course you did.

You really have to be a fool to believe that no one with advance knowledge of the ban sold their cards.

Commander is a casual format. There are no sanctioned Wizards events, play whatever cards you want. Get some friends and make your own rules, play with proxies create and your own ban list. This is the least consequential Wizard banning of all time but has got the most attention.

ITS NOT AN INVESTMENT ITS A CARD GAME

"Shake the foundations of trust in the format in general" is what the banning did, not a potential rollback, casualbro.

It’s a casual format so it doesn’t need a ban list. This was a rule zero problem and these bans don’t fix the issue. This only hurts cEDH and casual players who want to play huge mana cost commanders. Absolute joke

I'm over MTG finance in general, it's always been extremely nonsensical to consider MTG cards as investments, what with the reserved list ensuring that any card that comes after is fair game to be reprinted. Ban lists have also existed since nearly the beginning of the game, and thinking your Commander staples are somehow immune is shortsighted and naive. Stop harassing people over your poor choices.

The only ban my LGS is adhering to is a full ban of the RC. They aren't needed. Their input isn't wanted.

"MTG is not an investment." Youre right it isnt, however thr cards cost actual money so when you have a card worth a lot gets banned, people lost a lot of money. Stop buying actual cards period and instead buy proxies is what this aounds like to me.

LGS's should class action sue the RC for insider trading an tortious interference an force a discovery for the horrible optics of their decision to ban these high dollar cards

what is next ban the og dual lands because they cost to much and alot of people can not afford then to put in there decks to play with i think this is what is about.. about the cost and there is alot of players that want a faster pace but not super fast or super slow pace and these cards just make you the enemy of the table. and this was why rule 0 happened and shops will not enforce this ban.. i will not be watching some channels at all now that i was watching its the ones with the people on the rc .. if people and enough people do it they will start to think twice about some things

When your first response is "No there is no proof" ima tend to not believe you lmfao

Garbage ban. Garbage RC. Nothing new here

To say Magic is not an investment is absolutely wild to me. The main reason this game has survived over the years is because it CAN be an investment and RETAIN VALUE. You want to buy $200+ boxes for 1 dollar cards? Please wake up and realize magic without cards to invest in will kill it since there will be no merit in buying the product. I agree if they add a watchlist this should resolve most of the issue.

My question is did Wizards know about the bans when they reprinted these cards as the face of their premier product? And did the RC hold the Ban after the were printed?

You have way too much faith in people ,,.,they wanted to keep it secret, but were discussing it with WOTC for sometime...it's right in front of you dude....

Just got my festival in a box and guess what....pulled a foil borderless JL.......still a keeper in my book

Shout-out to the RC: Great bans this time round. You've restored my faith in you. Personally I think players who own and play these cards are like-minded players who don't mind to pay to win. Within their groups they can Rule 0 and continue as they were. The ones who are making all the noise are probably those who bought the cards as investment. I hope this incident will "shock" them out of hoarding cards, resulting in more expensive cards for casual players, in future. As for LGSs and online shops, things are already balancing out for them: Mana Vault has already doubled in price and more, Mox Opal might the the next one to increase in price.

I don't belive anything they're saying especially about how much wizards knew

"Magic is not meant to be a financial investment" WTF, sorry this is an absurd statement. Have you seen the prices of products. You do know there are Collector's edition boxes and it is a "Collectible" card game. Please don't disrespect your audience by repeatedly spewing this nonsense. I'm sorry but I had to stop watching when I heard this phrase uttered and repeated. Good luck to you and your audience with your very expensive cardboard that you have no expectation of holding future value. Like others have said buy proxies if you like the game, but don't believe it's worth the investment.

Sorry if someone else already mentioned it. Please take a close look at the sale volume in the days prior to the annoucement on Septembre 23th for these cards, some people close to the RC clearly benefited from it. This is the equivalent of inside trading, which make it even more problematic for the brand. Lack of transparency and misalignment with Wotc is leading to distrust.

Someone somewhere said, I never elected the Commander RC, who are they to tell me I can't play with the cards I've bought. So I can see a new Commander format being created with the expectation of powerful decks and combos existing, where the RC bans do not apply... What will the name of the new commander format with no bans be called? Commander Unlimited? Vintage Commander? Free Commander? ...

You are looking at this from a very.......nieve point of view. Like, this is some group of people solely concerned with a balanced and fair game environment. As if there were no monetary considerations at play. It is no coincidence that these cards (dockside, crypt, and lotus) have been the primary drivers of their last few premium sets. With huge price tags. I would be willing to bet that WOTC has similar/analogous cards lined up along with whichever cards already out there (like mana vault that see a huge spike in demand because of this ban) in an upcoming premium set. This is blatant manipulation and Hasbro/WOTC spitting in our faces and saying "you're going to take it, and like it bitch" I for one, have had enough. I will be selling my collection and not buying anything more from this company. They have ruined this game over the last 5-6 years, and I don't see it getting better. If you all have any integrity, you'll do the same

What about them admitting they coordinated over the past year with WOTC about the bans allowing WOTC to dump product containing these cards? Sounds like insider trading doesn’t it?

I honestly hope they enjoy every bit of the backlash. They deserve every ounce of it and more. I do not believe that they kept their cards. These people made a direct attack on competitive and should pay the cost.

Create 2 different formats then. Casual (lots of bans) & cEDH (basically no bans)

There was an estimated of 127 million dollars of losses since these have been banned. So having WOTC wanting to squeeze money out of players before a banning shouldn't be called a conspiracy. It should be a warning to you all that they will squeeze you for every penny and then print something new for you to buy.

So you shouldn´t do that, but how did they expect to not be threatend here? They destroyed in one go if you just look at the decks on edhrec (and thats by far not all) north of 25 Million $! in money of players. A lot of them are not showered in free product like several content producers in the RC by wizards. Some of this people save months for some of this things. You can´t just cause that amount of damage , and lets not talk about the douzens if not hundreds of local shops taking damage from this that could endanger their likleyhood and affect the ability of people to feed their children, and expect people to be happy about it. This is not 5000 people being unable to play their deck. This is the value of a seizable company wiped of the earth... Magic should not be an investment is a fuzzy argument here, LGS are what keeps the game alive and LGS are people earning their living selling those cards. Half the RC keeps promoting buy at your local gamestore in their shows... So they gonna refund their loses? Most LGS are not very high margin enterprises .... And that comes from someone that agrees on all this bans from a power perspective besides maybe jeweled lotus and thinks sol ring and one ring should have been axed as well if you really want to be serious to get the effect they stated.

I didn’t vote in favor of a rules committee. I don’t want a rules committee. Casual games don’t need a rules committee. Only competitive formats need a rules committee. A competitive format did not need these bannings. These random people should not have this power. Period.

Not sure how you ban chase cards and justify increasing prices on the products you sell. They price there products based on the value of the cards in the set. I think this tarnishes there brand even more than it is. Why would anyone buy a collectors box/pack anymore? People should just ignore the bans. Proxy expensive cards. I could go on... thanks.

They are garbage, they screwed LGS s and player's millions. They need to be removed.

My takeaway from this: Bans are not worth the impact it has on the players who bought these cards, and since banning is the only tool the RC has in its toolkit, the RC shouldn't exist.

People who destroy / throw away these banned cards are overreacting MORE than the people who made angry threats 😂🙄

I mean they just cost the mtg community about 45 million dollars while I do not condone people's threats apon them, it was a predictable outcome for them doing this all at once and they should've protection set up for them selfs before hand.

I would trust the RC more if they rolled back some or all of the bans in light of player input. If players speak out enough, why not let the community get their say?

We all got taken advantage by wizard of the coast they were aware , they recently reprint them on purpose in very expensive pretty arts before the ban they totally worked together and they totally give price to set just because of the cards that were going to be ban . XD that Taking advantage of the market and secret information

I'm selling all cards similar to these cards and proxie. No longer gonna invest in real cards. 😂

am i the only one that thinks this is only gonna make pub stomping 10x worse????

My take on this is that the game is whatever the people make it, and because we make it . We will Rule 0 the committee.

wait until those conventions in the box are canceled or returned or charged back.

They should have been chill and JUST ban the demon BIRD …

This was a total corporate slop response I wonder who on Hasbros legal team wrote it.