<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="483">8:03</a> your text on screen is kind of how i feel about most of the writing in the game. Everything feels kind of unearned, where people do something and then explain that there's a reason they're doing it, or some harsh motivation will be presented as a one-time explanation for something and never addressed again. It makes everything feel impersonal and un-intimate. We're shown at the very beginning that Peter is behind on an insane mortgage for his house, and has a job that he immediately loses...and then money problems are never brought up again. They talk about relationship troubles with MJ, and never really show it. We're told that Peter is in this constant struggle to stay afloat but none of the gameplay ever explores that. They're shown because it's exposition only, and has zero bearing on the story at all after that. It's saying "wow look where Peter is in life, now," and that life is then never really explored. IF the story beats, Peter being overwhelmed and tired, unable to afford food, desperate to maintain connection with his distant girlfriend and his newly resurfaced childhood buddy while also trying to mentor and teach Miles, had any impact on gameplay or writing or anything at all, these elements could have really helped drive a moving narrative. But the overarching thesis of the story just kind of seems to be "Peter has a bunch of problems, but he tries his best and beats the odds, coming out on top and achieving everything without losing anything" and that shits just not an inspiring message.
@@schlong.johnson Perfectly said, a lot of conflicts kind of just float around and are barely explored and then they have a “finale” as if they completed an arc we barely saw of which bothers me. It feels surface level and kinda cheap.
@@AlwaysEliite Right? Like i get that weaving a tight narrative is hard in games, and Insomniac was under the pressure of Sony's boot to get the game out, but like you pointed out with the secret identity stuff, so much of the game is sloppily written and presented. It's frustrating knowing that they've done so much better before
This game's treatment of Peter Parker is weird. He's meant to be a good boy who did nothing wrong, but then MJ flays him alive for his flaws. The Symbiote is said to be making him act cruel and out of character, but he never does anything that can't be walked back. Miles is upset at Peter for not taking his calls, but Peter is busy dealing with supervillains and reconnecting with his sick best friend. It's not even like he cuts Miles out of his life. It's like the story wants Peter to be a dick, but is afraid to commit to that idea.
that’s the worse part about the game, they don’t commit and play too safe. At the end of Spider-Man 1, there are consequences to what happened in the story, Peter and miles lose something. In Miles own game, He once again loses something. And yet, when Peter is going to lose a close friend like Miles did in his own game, they DONT kill off harry. “Consequences” don’t have to necessarily be deaths, but all the relationships are still together by the end of the story. If Harry comes back (which he most likely will), then he won’t even hate peter. Or how Peter doesn’t “retire” at the end of the game, when they were vaguely alluding to this fact and then bring it up after Venom is defeated. I get that the directors have a plan for Spider-Man 3 and green goblin, but the lack of any consequences, be it deaths, loss of relationships, or characters makes the game feel like filler imo
@TheAzulmagia You my friend deserve a like. I and many others have brought up how this game's writing lacks any teeth and you laid out some more good points about it. Especially how Peter never does anything that can't be walked back on.
I thought it was really weird how miles had so much pressure at school but felt left out of the Spider-Man stuff it didn’t make any sense because he could have just focused on his own life
If ever there was a game that needs a director's cut. This game needs it. All the planned content, like the leaks for dlc, which may not come out anymore, the cut content with more Symbiote boss fights during the venom act, with more of Harry's internal conflict with venom, like is he being completely manipulated by the Symbiote, are they in symbiosis with their goals. A longer act 2 showing Peter's corruption steadily with better Symbiote animations and yes, Symbiote suit swap. ( They can easily map out miles' camo button to Peter's suit swap, it's unused for Peter, it's right there).
Deliberately going out of your way to cut Spider-Man content in a Spider-Man game, in favor of MJ missions that the fans said they didn't like. Genius work Insomniac.
@@jyce7375 it was 5 years and was still rushed and had tons of cut content... you call that "well made"?? It's not a bad game by any means, but it could've been MUCH better.
At least personally spider-man 2 has a near-perfect foundation it just lacks the execution and time necessarily to make it live up to what it needed to
I hate how the hunters don’t actually hunt you too their supposed to hunt both Peter and miles but Peter and miles always come to them it would be better if you were just randomly web slinging or something and get ambushed by the hunters to make you feel like you’re actually being hunted
One thing I wanted was a mission in the woods or wilderness, don’t know how it would work but it would be interesting to be hunted in Kraven natural environment. Additionally I didn’t mention this because I didn’t want to be too nit picky but another problem with MJ being so prominent is there is no way the hunters or villains wouldn’t piece who Peter is considering the hunters tracked him to his house. A little piece of dialogue of Kraven knowing but not caring would be cool idk
This game suffered from three things imo that prevented it from truly reaching greatness: 1- The story was too short, we didn’t get to delve into peter succumbing to the symbiote and then everything that follows feels lackluster as a result. 2- Peter just gets knocked down easily too many times to justify him wanting the symbiote even tho we’ve seen him do much more in the prior game, a lot of story beats which i feel like could’ve developed peter’s character further was solved by miles or harry or MJ. They make him way too weak and less competent than he actually is. 3- The side missions for some reason feel worse than the first game. Some of them are cool like mysterio, chameleon and howard’s stuff but the rest feel lackluster. There should’ve been more side missions that tackle different villains.
I think the main 2 issues w/ the story were the small cast of characters who were less developed than the original besides the main few and peter w/ symbiote just not being mean enough- not necessarily the justification of him wanting it. I think just the power itself, and obviously him getting possessed is enough
@@MinerFun its like for the only way to completely tell the black suit arc properly, you need to dedicate the entire story to it, AKA: No Venom. Otherwise it detracts from the black suit story and treats it as a pre requisite. Another nitpick i would put down is that both Peter and Miles play too similarly to eachother with miles gets invisibility on top. Considering in their respective games they had enough differences that it was was noticeable change in playstyle. Where's all of Peter's old gadgets as in the 2 he feels like he's trying to imitate miles.
@@mikzpwnz_3199 agreed. Game would’ve been better if instead of the venom part at the end that final bit of gameplay was used to further develop Peter w/ the symbiote and have symbiote peter vs miles as the final boss. Venom could’ve been saved for an entire game of build up, although most likely they just wanted to get venom done and over with for norman the final game. Also agree on the gameplay similarities. I never felt a reason to switch between the characters unless I was forced to, especially pre-symbiote. What would’ve been interesting would be to have the two styles of gameplay of miles morales and spiderman 1 mixed together, so for peter you have all the suit gadgets and suit mods maybe even, whereas miles maybe doesn’t get suit mods but in exchange gets his venom and lightning abilities
@@MinerFun then if we had Miles Vs Symbiote Pete as a final boss, the fix for the boss fight would be pretty simple: have Pete be functionality invincible (he dodges, parries and blocks your attacks if you try to attack him) until you then use a high frequency sonic device in the arena to stun him to get your hits in. Kinda like how you had to web up Ock in the first game to actually hit him.
man, the plot point about pete losing his powers because of stress would've been EXCELLENT! it would've allowed for more things like miles taking over for a bit. if Sony would just back off from all of these great devs (like Insom and Arrowhead) and allowed them to work their magic with less time constraints, these games would've been so much greater
Yeah.. People keep claiming that Spiderman said he feels tired that's why it looks like he's weaker in the game... But why the hell are there no gameplay changes? Why is he as powerful then? It would of been interesting to have Spiderman momentarily loose some powers, or speed...
@toch0418 And I'm actually surprised that this game was the first time Insomniac's Spider-Man has faced Kraven. Since at his (Kraven's) first appearance in the comics, Jameson actually hired him to defeat Spider-Man. When Pete was at Rhino's table in the first game where the Sinister Six had their hideout, he said that Rhino is his second favorite Russian. I assumed Kraven was his favorite Russian, and Chameleon is his third favorite Russian. Since psychology, Chameleon is a threat. Rhino is a physical threat. Kraven is both.
The most scandalous thing they did was having the symbiote be some basic ass finisher animation spam as opposed to having its own fully fledged gameplay. Web of shadows did it a million times better and that game came out 16 years ago
@AlwaysEliite I've said it before - Insomniac have given us great spiderman games but they don't really innovate a whole lot. Treyarch back in the day pushed out games that felt massively different from the last and tried different shit. They went from SM1 > SM2 which was a generational change and gave us an entire sandbox with a revolutionary swinging system. Then they gave us ultimate spiderman which was a complete 180 and was an actual comic book game They also did Web of shadows which was a completely original symbiote invasion game and provided the best symbiote gameplay ever. They PUSHED themselves to do NEW things with every game they made. They had some cojones I tell u that
@@KareemK-jl3sj Perfectly said. Insomniac just seem content with just tweaking what's already there and then resting on their laurels as opposed to actual innovation.
I am SO GLAD you pointed out the scene of him holding hands with MJ as Norman berates Spider-Man. Because in the very next scene he is holding hands with with her as Peter next to Harry’s hospital bed and Norman is in the room…. it’s like how is nobody connecting the dots?? I really don’t know what the writers were thinking, if they were at all!
@@AlwaysEliite Yes and it's one of those stupid misunderstandings where Norman is mad because no one could manage to say anything besides "I'm sorry" when he asked "what did you do to him?" Never mind that mind that the last time Norman had seen Harry he was killing people in deadly Venom form...
This is a more competent video than most on Spider-Man 2. I just don't see a lot of people who aren't just angry at the game without much merit, so this is refreshing.
Anti-venom is supposed to be stronger than Venom, Anti-venom is supposed to kill Venom in a matter of seconds logically, so how did Peter, with a stronger version of the black suit, almost lose to Venom
Peter's power scaling in this universe is so weird. Like he can hold up a construction crane in the first game but can't hold a roller coaster in this one? He can lift rubble up to let civilians pass in the first game, but gets pinned by a fridge in this one? He is literally wearing an anti-symbiote suit but Miles' bioelectricity hurts Venom more?
@@DinoDave150did you forget he was also holding up a heavy ass ride that was also falling on him when holding up the roller coaster cars and that he got knocked out for a few seconds when the fridge hit the back of his head, or are you being blatantly ignorant?
The answer is simple, creative license. Plus, the final boss fight would be worse if Venom had no longer been a viable threat if Peter could destroy him with the antivenom suit. Sure, in the game, it can hurt Venom better than punches, but clearly, they wanted to introduce a new way to bring him down without resorting to a sound cannon. Lore wise, you're 100% correct, but I think Insomniac just wanted their own take on the antivenom suit while maintaining Venoms' threat level.
Catching this late but you making the point of the MJ mission overtaking Pete running from venom is something I NEVER would’ve thought about until you said and holy fuck that almost single handedly ruined the game for me. It’s so damn true, like what are they doing
@@DinoDave150 she is my least favorite after the sam raimi one, but at least that one didn't interfere with spider man missions tho she was just a cheater lol
I think that the reason Peter didn’t attack venom when they were in the living room was because he thought if he tried anything venom would instantly kill Mj.
This game had so much potential. I still don't understand how? 1) Having two Spider-Man they're still able to put MJ missions. 2) Gameplay in general. I didn't feel big difference between Peter and Miles. They suppose to be completely different, combos, strength and speed ( even the jump, Peter high up and Miles far forward) 3) It was really that hard to put more gadgets ( 4 web gadgets from Peter and 4 Tech gadgets from Miles)and ability to switch them in menu.
Absolutely agree. They made this city twice big compared to previous ones, and literally gave 4 enemy factions to fight. And 5th with symbiotes in the end game. Got really boring fighting same enemies over and over again 😅
Literally them having Kraven whisper "a gift for you" to spidey before showing some sign of poison or what have you would have A. Sold Kraven as a HARD threat immediately and would have legitimized his win against the Sinister Six members B. Given a proper reason why Peter bites the dust
Imagine if Harry just went to every FEAST shelter in the city to make every occupant become his symbiote army just to get to Peter… Venom (Harry): “So much for May’s legacy…looks like you let her down again, Pete.”
And make him as much if not worse of a monster as his future son Carnage. And Harry deep inside Venom being horrified at what he's doing and can't stop it.
@meraj5393 Still appreciate the game as is and love Candyman himself voicing Venom. But yeah, definitely would have loved to see the psychological warfare Rollercoaster ride. Like when Harry was the Green Goblin and did just that to Peter with Androids of his late parents in the comics.
I gotta say, you did a fine job summarizing your critiques on this game. For me personally, a big issue I have with not just this game, but Insomniac's Spider-Man games in general is that a lot of aspects about them feel "been there, done that." And most of those aspects were done much better in prior games. That's the major thing holding these games back from me loving them like I do older Spider-Man titles. I've played Spider-Man games that have had better combat, better web-swinging, better boss fights, better stories, better costume selections, better Venoms, better implementation of the Black Suit etc. Hell, even the Noir levels in Shattered Dimensions had better stealth than the Insomniac games. As for the story, my biggest thing is that it notably lacks any teeth. Like, they try to go into darker territories but don't really commit to it. For example, have that one girl on the roller coaster actually die and that's why Peter feels he needs the symbiote since it makes him stronger and as such, a "better Spider-Man." I also think that they really should have committed to making Harry a villain and killing him off at the end. Harry could have felt that the symbiote was his only true "friend" after being mistreated by Peter and that bonding everyone to symbiotes was the true way to "heal the world." The end of the game could have had him realize what he's doing and throw himself and the meteorite into the particle accelerator, sacrificing himself to stop the invasion. I mean, they ripped off the symbiote invasion from Web of Shadows, might as well take Venom sacrificing himself from that game as well. Would have also justified Norman hating Spider-Man since his son is dead when he was promised that Harry would be brought back to him alive and well. But the story lacking any teeth also extends to characterizations. As you mentioned, they imply that Miles has anger issues towards Li, but it quickly gets brushed aside. Peter and MJ's relationship troubles are only brought up during the Scream boss fight, which feels cheap since MJ being possessed is the only time she addresses any of these things. Peter only starts acting up once he gets the Black Suit and then immediately goes back to being a dork after he gets the suit off. Everyone just feels so squeaky clean and sanitized and it just lacks any human grit. The result of this is that I'm not really invested in any of the emotional moments since everything is so cartoonishly perfect and when things turn sour it can be all blamed on the symbiote. In conclusion, Marvel's Spider-Man 2 is a good game, but not one I'm going to find myself revisiting anytime soon like I will other games. By the way, I don’t care what anyone says, MJ jumping in front of Peter will always be stupid to me. P.S. For as much as people have been ragging on Insomniac's takes on MJ and Venom (deservedly so) I think the one who hasn't gotten nearly enough scrutiny is J. Jonah Jameson. Seriously, this has to be the WORST version of JJ I have ever seen. There is absolutely nothing to him except being grouchy comic relief. There's no nuance, no instances of him having a secret heart of gold, nothing. He's just an unfunny, unpleasant jerkass. And that's just lame compared to other versions we've gotten.
Absolutely agree with this comment, especially about people feeling “squeaky clean” it just feels like everyone has to always be seen as a perfect person with no real flaws that make you look at them differently or from a more complex angle. I would love to explore Peter and MJs relationship more outside of a boss and corny lines but they don’t have the time for that. Id love to see Harry’s relationship with Norman, but well there’s no time. In terms of gameplay they really just need to give the player a lot more freedom in movement and in combat, I mean web of shadows did a lot in little time and that games over a decade old. Lastly I wish I mentioned it but I feel like the world feels more dead and less lived in, the rouges are gone, Black Cat is gone, the cops are gone, it’s disappointing because the world is beautiful but it feels somewhat soulless sometimes. I replayed Spider-Man PS4 and maybe it’s also the fact it has a dlc but Peters world really felt lived in. Anywho thanks for watching, glad you enjoyed 👌🏾🙏🏾
@@AlwaysEliite Speaking of Harry and Norman, one thing I was curious to see was how the city would react to Harry considering his dad created a bioweapon that killed a lot of people. I would have assumed that some people would have given him the stink eye or have doubt in the Emily-May Foundation. Like maybe have a visitor there go, "Hey, nice work you're doing here. Really makes up for your dad getting my [insert family member here] killed." But no. Like everything else, all the interesting bits that would add depth to this world gets brushed aside because it's not sunshine and rainbows. Also, I find it really hard to believe that Harry would feel jealous over Norman hugging Peter when this version of Norman has shown to be nothing but loving and supporting to his family in contrast to his usual callous, cold self in the comics and other media. I just can't buy that THIS Norman and THIS Harry would have any kind of bad blood between them. Speaking of Web of Shadows, I find it funny that a game that only had a mere 17 months to develop had better Black Suit mechanics, web-swinging, wall-crawling, AND did a symbiote invasion story better than the 5-year AAA $300 million budget game made for the 9th generation of consoles.
These game borrows from other games but makes them worse. The gameplay is so mechanically shallow. I press one button to do the same 4 animations till the end of the game, no combos or anything, what?! At least with Arkham you had batman use a different animation depending on distance and angle to the enemies, the way he uses gadgets were seamless into combat even travesal could be used for combat. Why can't Spidey swing from a web and shoot web balls at enemies before he actually engages with them. What's stopping them from innovating? It's sad
Finished the game recently. I'm spanish speaker, and there was a weird subtitle mistake when Osborn speaks with Octavious. He says: "Los spiderman mataron a Harry(those spiderman killed Harry)" but in the original he doesn't say KILL. Maybe he was supposed to be dead at the end?
You deserve so much more recognition than you get. This video is well made in both the commentary, editing and just the flow of the video is just perfect. You just got yourself a well deserved subscriber, keep up the good videos and effort it takes to make them.
Great video I 100% agree I think it was a missed opportunity that Peter and Miles didn’t team up on side missions together like Batman and Nightwing In Arkham Knight.
I love Bryan intihar and insomniac games. For some weird reason it felt like they had the same situation with Sam raimi for Spider-Man 3(Movie) where they don’t really fully know what they wanna do with venom as a character which left tons of execution problems and inconsistencies in the game. Felt like venom was pitched as an idea to fill out the middle part for Spider-Man 3(Game) where the real focus since the project started was Doc Ock and Norman Osborn’s Green Goblin. I genuinely think they had all the basis of a great story but made poor decisions for it to be greater in Marvel’s Spider-Man 2 and seeing how expensive games are these days I can understand why some stuff was cut but it really needed more time to cook and it will all be worth it.
@Jylstin I think GodzillaMendoza put it best, this is the Halloween Kills of Spider-Man games. A middle chapter that exists to set up the finale while being mostly fluff on its own.
Ayo I'm still watching the video but i have to say it...YOUR EDITING SKILLS ARE FREAKING COOL! And the crispy quality of each clip? Chef's kiss. I will be definitely taking some notes to sharp my skills 🔥
@@ThePrincipeShinobi Bro I had to replay the game like twice to get my own clips because RU-vid clips looked crusty, took mad long because replaying missions wasn’t out yet but it was worth it.
@@AlwaysEliite I know that shit took time then, cause my most simple videos demand some heavy time, i can only imagine yours. But the thing is, your hardwork will pay off. The video was so cool you have a new sub here 🔥
That MJ mission towards the end instead of running from Venom as Peter was most definitely the part Bryan Intihar cut out, remember the promotional art and CGI before the game came out where Miles and Peter were fighting Venom in the middle of the city ? 🤔
Seeing Peter trying to save his rogues from Kraven and failing would've echoed trying to save the Oscorp scientists from Mr. Negative and failing in the first game and it really would've been great to see, man.
<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="122">2:02</a>, this is my main problem with this game, miles is so corny and NONE of his jokes land (neither do peter jokes, but that's something else)
Nah for real because although I don't want to make assumptions, it feels like a middle aged white guy is writing Miles dialogue when he was NEVER that corny in his own game. They might as well just let Nadji Jeter have pointers on his dialogue and finally let him use his deeper voice for Miles.
This is a reoccurring problem with Spider-Man media in the last decade: his quips suck nowadays. He almost always refers to them as quips, makes them come across as dad jokes so corny that actual dads would shake their heads in disapproval, stretches them out for so long that they lose whatever comedic effect they may have had, and makes it seem like he's nudging to an invisible audience as if they "get it." The quips are supposed to be digs at his enemies and he's supposed to come off as a wiseass. To get his villains angry to throw them off their game and to show he's not afraid of them. Here's a couple of my favorites: Tombstone: Come down here and fight like a man! Spider-Man: Why don't you come up here and fight like a spider? (Spider-Man: The Animated Series) SM: Where'd you come from? Kraven: Mother Russia. By way of Mother Africa! SM: Wow. Two moms and still so ill behaved? (Spectacular Spider-Man) Venom: Spider-Wuss! Come out and play! SM: Tag! (While jumping on Venom's head) (Neversoft Spider-Man)
Honestly, instead of Silk I would much prefer Ultimate Jessica Drew who is a clone of Peter. It feels much more personal for Peter and explains how there is another Spider-person since she is a clone instead of just having a 3rd person be bit by a spider. Also she is obviously from the Ultimate clone saga and is the stand in character for Ben Reilly so I wouldn't mind if she went by Spider-Woman, Scarlett Spider, or even The Scarlett Spider-Woman.
That would've been interesting to see. I am curious of how you would've like her to be introduced, would Oscorp have Peter's DNA or would Peter sometime pre-Marvel's Spider-Man 1 encountered the Jackal and experienced a version of the clone saga or something else entirely. If you got any ideas, I would love to hear them perhaps we could talk about a few, if not, and if it's something you thought up on the spot. That's fine! Have a nice day or night, wherever you are! BUH-BYE!!!
Im not gonna lie, one problem I have with both of these games, is Peter's approach with his villains. In particular, Mr. Negative, Doc Ock, and Harry. Throughout the battles with both Li and Ock, he keeps telling them it doesn't have to be this way, that he wants to help them, and says he will help them. But then, once they're defeated, he just sends them to prison, and does nothing. He doesn't actually help them like he promised he would. He even kind of addresses it, like with Mr. Negative, Miles helps reform him, and Peter says "Even I've never done that". With Doc Ock, he straight up does nothing, sends him to prison and lets him rot. Im willing to give a bit of leeway on Harry, because he did save him from the symbiote, and said he would help Norman with a cure. So he very well could be doing that, and we just haven't seen it yet. But if the next game drops, and he hasn't, then my point stands.
With Ock, considering how he intentionally released Devil's Breath and got Aunt May killed while knowing who Peter really was, I could chalk that up as to making Otto pay for what what he did. You're right on the other points though.
The part where Peter was running from Venom in the last mission would have been a cool opportunity to have a gameplay segment where Venom was chasing you instead of the other way around like in many Spider-Man games in the past (PS1, Ultimate and Web of Shadows). Instead, they forced us to play as Mary Jane Wick.
I agree with this review perhaps more than any other review of the game. Insomniac needs to watch this! You give them an unbelievably accurate amount of praise and constructive criticism EXACTLY where it’s due. I'd love to see more videos on these games from you!
I agree 100% with all of your venom critiques, he was by FAR the most disappointing aspect of the game for me. Like as you pointed out all the pieces for a great venom are there but the fact he isn’t even in control and the games need to rush through the story to do the dumb web of shadows plot ruins it completely
That’s what frustrates me the most outside of the Symbiote gameplay honestly, I wanted Peter and Miles to genuinely be on guard swinging because Venom could be anywhere, and actual stakes in their personal lives and loved ones.
God I wish they went with the classic take on Venom. I miss Venom's motivation being more grounded and personal, being his hatred for Peter Parker and willing to do very bad things for his petty revenge
@@AlwaysEliiteThough Tony Todd voiced Venom beautifully. Wish we see more Spider Abilities from Venom like webbing, web swinging, web combat, and crawling up and down walls.
elite when spider-gwen shows up out of a portal next to silk and says "spider-girls, roll out" (peter is in italy and was cut entirely from the story for this new arc)
At times I just imagine what the story could have been and it just breaks my heart. Like the ideas they displayed were really good but there was no setup or build up to them. Like for example, Peter saying the suit makes him a “Better Spider-Man” are just empty words as this feeling is not displayed at all throughout the game. They could have had some sequences in which Peter actually fails which gives him guilt. You could say the Coney Island mission where Peter apologies to the remaining civilians is one of those but again, after that mission, this theme isn’t even explored upon and just forgotten. So when we get the Symbiote, I don’t know really feel all that powerful and different.
I loved the part of the game where we were Greater Together, y'know? Like on the cover? What do you mean you can't find Peter in Free Roam because they didn't bother coding him an AI? What do you mean the team-ups and storytelling potential for two people with great power and great responsibility were completely overlooked and mishandled? Damn, maybe we'll be Greater Together next time
I had just thought of something and wanted to talk about it, but before I do I'd like to lay out some more points in regards to this game's characterizations. This will be part 1 of 2 comments. One major missed opportunity was giving Peter a chip on his shoulder. Think about it, the man lost his mother-figure, has to pay the bills for her house now, can't hold down a job to pay said bills, etc. Any one of those things would make anyone a grouch. Now I want to say that I'm not asking to make Peter a flat-out douchebag (looks at Spider-Man: Lotus), I'm just saying that it would make him feel more relatable and human. It could have even played into the Black Suit storyline. For instance, Peter could have some underlying resentment for Miles, since he lost his teaching job because Miles couldn't handle Sandman on his own. But Peter doesn't say anything because he knows deep down that both Spider-Men were needed for that situation and more people ended up saved because of it. You could even have a moment where, as the principal is walking away after firing him, he takes a step forward to tell her off but backs down from it because he knows that from her perspective she was right to do so. But once he gets the symbiote, he begins letting out all the things he wanted to say or do with his inhibitions now dampered. For example, during a fight with the Hunters, you could have a moment where Peter makes sure to "accidently" trash the principal's car while fighting them, justifying it since she has a job, so she can buy another one. It could be a bit of foreshadowing of Peter becoming more blasé. It could culminate in the boss fight between him and Miles with him chewing Miles out for costing him his job, not pulling his weight in the superhero business, saying the symbiote has been more helpful him than Miles has, etc. It could really show just how far Peter has fallen to the symbiote's influence but also how much he's been holding in. Speaking of Miles, I touched on this in the previous comment, but I really wanted them to delve more into his hatred of Martin Li. Predominately his boss fight with him. I wanted to see Miles really go all out and just beat the hell out of Li, like have a moment where he webs his hands to the ground and just goes to town wailing on Li. Then he grabs Li's sword and stands above him ready to deliver the killing blow, but just stabs the ground next to his head before throwing him out of the arena to find Peter. We all know that Miles not killing Li is a foregone conclusion, but it still would have been cathartic for Miles to lay into Li for getting his dad killed. I don't know about you, but if someone killed my dad but felt guilty about it and I did feel like forgiving them, I would still take a couple of swings at them because, duh, they killed my dad. Both Peter and Miles' issues could have been brought at the forefront in their boss battle where they both bring up points about each other's flaws and how they should be better which could lead to Peter removing the symbiote. Speaking of the symbiote, I really wish they would have drawn more from the original comics in terms of it wanting to form a genuine bond with its host and not just corrupt them like it has since the 90s show. At most I just wanted it to turn people's inhibitions off, but asides from that everything that the host does is of their own volition. I think a neat idea would be to have the symbiote want to make its host happy since it isn't really a malevolent creature. I would have it so that the symbiote doesn't want to leave Harry, but eventually goes to Peter because saving him is what Harry wants and the suit wants to please its host. But in the process, the symbiote ends up being corrupted by Peter's negative emotions that he's been keeping inside him and as such doesn't want to leave him once it's bonded. Once Peter removes it and tries to destroy it, it could feel betrayed since all it wanted to do was make Peter stronger to make him a "better Spider-Man" and that would have made him happy. But no, they just made it a generic corrupting monster like it has been since 1994. They try to do this thing where the suit twists its user's innermost desires into something that they think they want, but it's made blatantly obvious the suit is the one calling the shots. Now onto Harry. Like Miles I touched on how the game should have committed to Harry being a villain, but there's so much more you could do to him. in my version of the story, since Peter is the one who corrupts the symbiote, you could have had him act like a callous jerk to Harry more to show the degradation of their friendship. You could have a moment where Harry gets sick of Peter's attitude and demands that he gives the suit back since he's dying and needs it, but Peter pushes Harry to the ground and tells him, "Why don't you ask daddy to buy you a new one?" and then swings away. After that, you could have one of two scenarios of Harry getting the symbiote after Peter finally takes it off. 1) Have it play out like it does now, only now Harry can see the symbiote is visibly terrified at Peter's mention of destroying it. Seeing that the symbiote is just like him, a sickly dying creature, Harry begins to lay into Peter for his treatment of Harry and the suit. "You want to kill it? It's _alive_ Pete. Alive...*like* *me.* Or do you not care about it like you don't care about me anymore?" Harry then tries to strike Peter with his cane. "I SAVED your life! It SAVED your life!! WE SAVED YOUR LIFE?! AND NOW YOU WANT TO DESTROY US?! AFTER EVERYTHING WE DID?!?" At this point Harry smacks the container, cracking it and the rest of the scene plays out like it does. But there would be an added bit where Harry calms the symbiote before bonding with it, telling it that it'll be okay, how he won't hurt it like Peter did, and they'll do a better job protecting the city than Peter and Miles combined. 2) After Peter removes the symbiote, we cut to Harry at Oscorp, where he is visibly at death's door. He is ghostly pale, has dark circles around his eyes, and has begun coughing up blood. He staggers through the labs, calling out to Peter, Norman, MJ, anyone for help. He eventually stumbles and falls onto the ground and his coughs become desperate gasps for air as he slowly, painfully succumbs to his disease. As he lay dying, his last thoughts are about how Peter mistreated him and kept his only salvation, the suit, all to himself and with his dying breath, whispers Peter's name venomously before closing his eyes. This is about the time when Peter swings into Oscorp to destroy the symbiote, but upon finding Harry's body, he panics and without thinking opens the container and allows the symbiote to bond with Harry in a desperate bid to save his life. However, due to Harry's vengeful final thoughts and the symbiote's spurned feelings combining together, the two become Venom and grab Peter by the neck and tell him that they don't need him anymore and that they'll do a better job protecting the city than he ever did before tossing him away. Either of these scenarios would have given extra merit to both Harry and the symbiote developing hatred towards Peter and would justify them becoming Venom after reuniting. After all, Venom at his core is about both the host and alien despising Spider-Man with every fiber of their being, but as it stands now, they just become Venom for... reasons. FYI in my version, there would be no symbiote invasion, Venom would just be doing his Lethal Protector thing while also trying to kill Peter. There could also be a moment where Venom tries to convince Miles that Peter doesn't care about him since most of the things said by Peter to Miles in their boss was genuine on Peter's side. Really, there's a LOT of avenues you could have taken this story to give it extra depth but they just didn't. Harry as Venom COULD have worked. Miles having a Vendetta against Martin Li COULD have worked. Several other ideas in terms of both game and story COULD have worked, but Insomniac ended up biting off more than they could chew. I mean, have you seen the number of writers this thing has?
that #2 Harry essentially dying because of Peter is a pretty ballsy move and definitely could show how far Peter had gone up until that point. This made me think back to Norman and how Oscorp should have been targeting Spider-Man for most of the game and as Peter gets worse the city likes him less and less and we see that. Overall yea they just had way too much on their plate and I can't be too mad at how things turned out, but Venom in my opinion was a travesty.
@@AlwaysEliite I got the initial idea of Peter deliberately giving the symbiote to Harry from GodzillaMendoza's video, where he mentioned a similar thing happened with Eddie Brock in the Paul Jenkins run where he died from his cancer and Peter pushed his body into the symbiote to revive him. I just think that doing something like that with Harry could have elevated the story in so many ways. As it is now, Peter feels guilty for being a slight jerk to Harry. But what would have REALLY made him feel guilty was indirectly getting his best friend killed and turning him into a monster afterwards. Like I said before, they want to go into darker territory, but they stick their toe into the water, think it's too cold, and then back out of it. Speaking of Norman, one other thing that I don't see mentioned often is how Oscorp had a spare symbiote in storage that was eventually stolen by Cletus Kasady, and at no point before then does Norman elect to give that one to Harry. Now if there had been a bit of dialogue where it's explained that particular symbiote is volatile and erratic compared to the other one, that would have justified Norman not immediately giving it to Harry. As it stands now, it's a massive oversight on the writers' part. As for Venom, I'm of the opinion that Eddie Brock doesn't always have to be the main host. Hell, I even like the original idea of Venom being a woman who suffered a miscarriage and lost her husband indirectly because of Spider-Man. As I've gone over in these comments, Harry as Venom could have worked, but they didn't commit to it. Watching that presentation of Bryan Intihar saying that all the things we love about Venom would be there, how he wants to kill Spider-Man, how it's both the host and the symbiote, etc. makes me feel like we got short changed. He doesn't want to kill Spider-Man, he wants him to join him in "healing the world" and the suit is the one very obviously calling the shots. In fact, why are they called "Venom" in the first place? I know that some people have said that it's because some cultures use venom to treat certain illnesses and that coincides with Harry healing the world, but I'm sorry that's a REAL big stretch in my opinion. Venom is a character that, over the years, people only seem to like because of the purely visceral stuff (his look and voice) while the actual interesting stuff (his moral code, his rough upbringing, his complicated relationship with Spidey) gets shoved aside and overlooked in most adaptations. The Insomniac version hasto be the biggest offender of that in recent years. There is absolutely nothing to this version asides from his cool design and Tony Todd's vocal performance.
@@DinoDave150 Yea its painful because I really wanted that darker tone to impact the story and see them grow afterwards, especially one I saw that concept art
@AlwaysEliite The thought just occurred to me. Insomniac Venom is basically Zack Snyder's Batman. People only like them because of the purely superficial stuff and don't look past anything skin-deep. They look and sound like the character, and that's about it. There's no trace of the actual character that made people fans in the first place. It still baffles me how Midnight Suns of all things has had one of the best Venom adaptations in anything in years. Speaking of the concept art, I find it really fishy how Donny Cates and Ryan Stegman are only mentioned in passing when their run on Venom was VERY influential for Venom in this game and they STILL haven't patched in a Special Thanks credit for them.
I agree. Peter should be stronger with grief not weaker. All that resentment for the city because of choosing between them and aunt may or the resentment from losing his job or the fact that lizard was taking so damn long to capture. I was waiting for the moment on the black suit where he just pummels lizard half to death and lizard is terrified, or maybe even beats miles half to death and then he sees himself in a puddle and realises the suit needs to come off instead of being lil bro'd by miles.
Ayooo my man! Keep making videos!!!! I respect your perspective, and how you pace your vids. Great stuff man! I’ll be looking forward to your next drop 🫡🔥
I think the game on its own is fine albeit some inconsistencies in plot, but the first was more substantially fulfilling especially with all the post game and DLC content. The town feels so empty once the story is complete and the side quests are done.
The way we went from venom being introduced then going into a full blast knull symbiote invasion makes me feel like there is 4 hours worth of story being cut
Bro, maybe the only good thing in this game is Yuri's acting as Peter, and Tony Todd as Venom lol, oh and also Kraven, badass character. (About the story ofc, the gameplay is solid)
Mj Action pack missions really should’ve been given to Black Cat if kept around longer in the story or better yet SILVER SABLE!! She would’ve been a great addition to the story. Overall I’m bummed Marvels Spiderman 2 wasn’t executed as greatly as its previous game Marvel’s Spiderman 1. However, it’s still is a fun game and dope storyline. 8/10 for me.
Insomniac Peter in this game is nerfed a point to gave me PTSD about Superman in Season 1 Justice League Animation. Everyone get a shot: We are fine 😃 Superman get a shot: ITS JOVER!
This game needed more time. I don’t care what anyone says, this game should have been delayed and worked on even further. 99% of what you said is valid. I can never get over that fact the first game felt more fun than the second. It should have been delayed to this year instead imo
I seriously hope that Insomniac takes criticisms like these seriously in order to make the third game as good as possible. I love seeing these characters thrive so it's just a shame to see the game be rushed out like this. Spider-man 2 isn't a bad game, but knowing we could have gotten something greater can be a big pain to think about sometimes. fire vid btw, subbed
W vid bro, them rose tinted glasses had me in a chokehold the first month of it’s release but it’s definitely narratively the weakest out of the trilogy of insom spidey games so far
@@klooks1013 There’s a lot more nuance to that not everyone dislikes or critiques the game because of what someone else said. Unfortunately not enough but not everyone.
What a solid video! Great job man. One of the only videos about this game I have seen that is fair. Not overly glorifying or hating, just fair. It's great listening to you, keep it up, can't wait for more videos.
I’ll say one thing other than that you got everything spot on, the reason why miles is more open to keeping his mask off because most people do know it’s him If you remember at the end of miles morales but peter is just straight up careless.
Spider-Man 2 should’ve been on the same level as legendary games like Web of Shadows, Edge of Time, Shattered Dimensions, hell even Insomniac’s SM1, but there are just too many cut things due to the game being rushed. I mean, only using 10% of Venom’s dialogue.. the devs clearly had much more in mind that they just never got a chance to add. The hunters should’ve felt more like, say, silver sable’s minions from the first games. I agree with basically every take here, Miles should’ve had anger issues, which would make his later interaction with Li that much better. And obviously the whole second half of the game feels rushed. They should’ve kept the old gadget system, but just nerfed them. Stealth should’ve been way better, especially considering the first half is LITERALLY based around kraven and a theme of hunting. And you can’t get much more of a hunting theme than stealth. And considering how strong the symbiotes are supposed to be, it would make sense that you’d want to avoid fighting them head-on, too. A lot of people complain about the story, but imo even the gameplay could’ve been better in places. And the two should’ve complimented each other too, like each character (including the symbiote) having a completely different playstyle, playing to the strengths of each character, giving them unique combos that are more than just… the same gameplay with different skills and animations. Especially when SM games are known for their crazy combos. This brings me to SM3 and Cindy Moon. If you need each Spider-person to have different abilities, have Peter focus on either gadgets or anti-venom abilities (whichever works better, I don’t mind either approach), have Miles focus on his electricity and invisibility, and have Silk use traditional web abilities, but make them look really fancy and unique. Story wise, it has potential with Otto and Norman teaming up, and there’s *plenty* of routes they can go with this (a potential Superior Spider-Man and Green Goblin together… I mean, I’m genuinely curious for how they’ll pull it off). Only thing is, with Peter taking a break, it may be a duo Cindy and Miles game rather than the full trio, which imo would be huge wasted potential for a triple Spider-Man team up, especially when the enemy could potentially be a Spider-Man. Anyway.. let’s just pray that the devs are able to take their time with this one, and are able to create a truly memorable experience much like the first game was. TLDR; Spider-Man 2 had plenty of both gameplay and story issues, and needs a Director’s Cut. Spider-Man 3 needs time to cook. Edit: After reading this… okay, that was way longer than it was supposed to be, lol.
My least favorite part of the game was those people not dying on the roller coaster. It sounds messed up but them dying would’ve gave a lot more meaning to ‘it makes me a better spider man’. Just thinking of him saying that after not being able to save the civilians gives me chills
Spider-Man 2 has the exact same problem god of war ragnarok has in my opinion they both have 2 games worth of story to tell but tried to fit it all into one game making it feel half baked and losing a lot of the impact it could’ve had.
@@Liamx-00 Personally, I would say they have the inverse problem of one another. Spider-Man 2 feels too short, whereas God of War Ragnarok feels too long as there's two games worth of material inside it.
<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="241">4:01</a> not to mention a fridge is enough to pin spiderman down. So i guess the sinister 6 just needed a few fridges to win
Personally I didn’t feel that it was rushed it’s a lot better than modern day games that are just 70$ for games with an updated roster and a few new animations the graphics and the haptic feed back made me feel super immersed but I do wish the story was a little longer
539+ hours overall? I got 400 hours in Spider-Man 1 alone and 300 hours in Spider-Man 2 while Miles Morales about 200 hours 😅 Also here's my take on the story (But I'll try to condense it because it's a comment so) Gameplay wise: This game is sooooo fucking good they improved on a lot of aspects of gameplay and even at act 2 they still were introducing new gameplay features (unparriable attacks) Bosses were so much harder and cooler to fight, I absolutely loved everything they changed up and the increased swinging speed with web wings is just... PERFECT I absolutely love with how they went about gameplay. Mission wise: I think the missions were okay up till act 3 with the symbiote invasion I think the very beginning before getting the symbiote was okay maybe one more agent venom mission with Miles could be cool to build up that relationship and not just with 1 phone call (it was very clearly rushed with the agent venom thingy) and also I could have liked maybe 2 or 3 more peter symbiote missions because I feel like it was barely 2 days of him having the suit when he said the "These past few days" when he got it off. Kraven vs Venom was fucking perfect and after that mission I feel like this is where it started going downhill I feel like act 3 had some really solid missions and probably some of my favourite missions overall from the game but sadly the biggest complaint I have is that it wasn't long enough and there def could be more fun stuff in there and just build out how dire the situation was (and honestly the only excuse I find for avengers not being there for an alien INVASION is only if Galactus the world eater was attacking earth on the other side of the planet, that must be like the only good explanation for it-) Story wise: The game was story overall ignoring the few things that were rushed at the beginning felt the strongest in my opinion, the story felt really good and Kraven was such a good character and probably one of the best Kraven stories out there but after his death... the game stopped peaking and the story was getting worse and worse, I loved the "Inside peter's head" mission and I just loved the fact there were symbiotes in that game like Web of Shadows (Literally that was one of my wishes for this game) but it's sad that it was like 2-3 missions only...
The thing about the stab wound kraven gave him tho is that it was a more potent stab. Kraven is shown to have crazy brute strength, enough to relentlessly manhandle scorpion, so it’s likely bro jammed that blade deep into peters organs. Plus, when Peter was fighting the sinister 6, most of them used blunt force impact to attack, which Peter did pretty well with, blocking and tanking, leading to a masterful display. It’s only when scorpion hits him with the stab wound that he is out of commission, and all 6 start beating on bro. So it was already established that insomniac spidey has little resistance to stab wounds. Lastly, the stab seemed to be in peters left artery. Now arteries happen to be the most lethal place to get stabbed cause they are the main pumping force that gets blood around your body due to their thick muscly walls, meaning blood is constantly being pumped through them. Getting stabbed, slashed or even nicked by something sharp and volitile in that area is fatal because of the extreme blood loss, as all the blood that was supposed to be going to the body cells is now leaking out of you at a rapid pace. Loss of all for blood can lead to low energy due to lack of oxygen needed to respire, like we see in the game with Peter not being able to move, and a struggle to stay conscious as your brain is being deprived of oxygen, something we also see happen in the game. I think what that scene was trying to illustrate is that kraven is a hunter. He slays his prey as efficiently as possible. He bypasses all of the work the sinister 6 did and worked smarter, analysing Peter and finding his weak point. I will agree tho that kraven should’ve taken the blade out of Peter to maximise blood loss, but still. Everything else you said tho about Peter being slow to react to his spider sense checks out.
That's the big thing with Insomniac's writing for their Spider-Man games. Watching GodzillaMendoza's video on this game really opened my eyes on what it is about these games' stories that I don't jive with. Insomniac are struggling to leave any kind of actual mark on the Spider-Man mythos in the same way the Arkham series did for Batman. They just seem content with treading the same ground as other adaptations have over and over again. Even if that ground wasn't good in the first place like Dan Slott's run or the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon, or the Amazing Spider-Man 2 movie. Everything in these games, from story to gameplay, has been done before and in a lot of instances has been done better. In fact, I would go so far as to say the only thing they copied well was Peter and Otto having a mentor-student relationship before Otto becomes Doc Ock. That was done well and is honestly the best written part of the first game, asides from the ending. But they've tried to replicate that formula with Tinkerer and Venom to diminishing returns. I have to say, after playing this game, I can't say I'm terribly excited for whatever they have in store for the third game. Or for their Wolverine game for that matter.
@@DinoDave150 agreed! Whenever i would say the game was mid people would get angry or upset, but they did everything other games did just in terms of current gen..nothing new, mechanics, gameplay..it’s fun game to play as spiderman for sure but isn’t ideal or great, as to why it didn’t win any awards ..i really hoped for some unique swinging mechanics and gameplay - don’t get me started on design and actual story and character building but hey…
@DropNeo And just to be clear, a game does not have to break new ground to be considered amazing. Shadow of Mordor literally just lifted Arkham's combat and stealth, but is still a really solid game in its own right. But with these games, as mentioned before they just do stuff that was already done beforehand with little to no innovation. While the games are fun, I find myself getting bored on replays. As for the story, well, I already made a multipart essay on this comment section, so if you want to see my thoughts, you can check them out.
@@DinoDave150 maybe not but it does have to show creativity and shadow of Mordor did create nemesis system something no other game had and so they did create something entirely new..
What a fantastic video, from start to finish it was great, cohesive, and understandable. Pretty much more than all what I could criticise too. Lets hope the next game will be even greater :)
From my point of view, I knew this game was rushed so Sony could launch it along with across the spider-verse. This is what I feared while Sony still has the rights to Spider-Man, In order for them to keep the rights, they have to milk us a bunch of lazy pointless spin-offs That a bunch of people never asked for along with some W's like Tom Holland Spider-Man and across the spider-verse. I know people will disagree with me on this, but I'd rather let Disney handle the Spider-Man rights instead of Sony, I'm aware Sony can handle Spider-Man better but they just handled the IP very poorly with their spin-offs. The one person you can blame for all of this is Avi Arad. Other than that, very impressive video
You played as a deaf girl nearly as long as you did as Venom. That's shows the developers heads are firmly up their backsides. I don't think I've to say more.
Did we forget the part when peter was going symbiote crazy and mj is chasing him and she tells miles "SEAL ME IN THE TUNNEL I CAN TALK TO HIM" like that was shit gay. That shit was tragic. Her plan was to be the gf who's like "Baby this isnt YOU!"
Also a lot of the time it was like watching an interactive spiderman movie. Like they took out a lot of the fun parts that the player could do or fight
I just discover your video and to be honest, thanks you so much for made this video. You really describe every detail I felt weird about the game, yes the game was good but it could have been greater. Thanks again we really feel your love for the character and the games
Despite all these flaws, I really liked this game mainly for the gameplay which was a huge improvement over the first two games. This game just felt like it left me hanging and with Bryan Intahar’s attitude towards valid criticism rubbed me the wrong way as well. Overall, this was a 7/10 for me. Still good, just not amazing.
