The Sandbox vs the Railroad | Running the Game 

In any other context, two guys playfully ribbing each other about hoe easily they can slaughter other people and keep high score would be terrifying.

That just sounds like a Tuesday

THAT ONLY COUNTS AS ONE!

@@chalor182 you stole my reply hehe

“Toss me”

Yes. Apologies for the sarcasm. ;-)

Maybe even six movies!

Willem Maas Nah... that would be crazy. Who'd do something like that!

Ah, I don't think anyone would be into it. :P

They should make the second adventure first and then go back and do the first.

John: *laughs in Appendices*

There is no such thing as overprepping.

lol

"I got a fucking Ph.D. in linguistics, LET ME HAVE MY CONLANGS"

W comment

The character who played Golum got booted from this group and went over there. He played Edmund.

Okay this is a good one @ OP XD

No, you're thinking of Clive

WIN

He's had some unexpected luck in two or three games in the last year or two.

Did you see his podcast with Geroge DMing? Sean was like "imma break my character alignment entirely and lie to survive", and George was just like "you died anyway", Sean can't catch a break =/

Mordirit Don't give me false hopes. If this was real then I would ask for a link, but since it isn't I can only cry over the fact that it is fake ;A;

He didn't die in that modern Heist game they played with Robert, but he decided it wasn't really his thing and he left after the first quest.

@@onyxbasilisk9046 I don't know, don't forget the entire premise of the video saying that The Hobbit was a sandbox and LOTR was a story based game on rails, using them as examples. Because, you know, The LOTR series is just a D&D campaign from before D&D was a thing.

@@onyxbasilisk9046 his one was obviously sarcasm, quote: "hey, wait a minute!". Yours was very not sarcastic sounding, quote: "smaug knockoff"

@@onyxbasilisk9046 What malice do you speak of? That means the intention to do evil. I do no evil by saying that the internet makes stuff that might be sarcasm not look like sarcasm. Have a good day. Eat a cookie.

@@onyxbasilisk9046 Was about to say something like "I wasn't asking for perfecting your previous comments to any standards I might have" but deleting all your replies gave me a little chuckle. blocked.

They go for a dragon... wait another freaking minute

YES YES MORE YES. OOOOOH BLACK PANTHER AS A DROW MOVIE!!!

i third this!

Fourth!

Ever read Darths and Droids? It’s exactly this and it’s amazing.

I Don't Care There is something like that specifically for LoTR , I just forgot what it was called

All the names are the actors too.

I got it when he started talking about this dwarven fortress with a dragon and a treasure hoard. He wasn't that subtle.

@@jackielinde7568 Well I Realised It Was Based On The Hobbit And LotR Pretty Early On, But I Didn't Catch Onto The Names Until Later.

@@rateeightx nice typing quirk kanaya

@@SorchaSublime oh its another rare homestuck out in the wild >:]

Alexander Chippel that was nowhere near subtle

Oh, Gygax cribbed off Tolkien so it's only fair.

I get the feeling that they accidentally (or intentionally) reenacted the base plot from The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings.

Ya' think so? But seriously, this story is so Exactly LoTR that I get the feeling that M. Colville is stress testing our belief. Across years and generations of players nobody says, "this is the plot of Lord of The Rings."

very very subtle

I’ve often thought about Star Wars as a DND game. C-3PO would probably be the DM’s player character.

@@infidelheretic923 There is a webcomic called Darths and Droids that is this premise. It's based off the idea of a different comic called DM of the Rings. They both use images from the movies to tell the story of a TTRPG campaign.

DM of the Rings is currently being remastered by the original creator's daughter, as the original creator has sadly passed away.

@@kraiZor We're so old that people don't recognize Darths and Droids or DM of the Rings anymore.

XP to Level 3 also made a video series like this

hehe, took me till the quote :D I was so in D&D mode that I didn't think of LoTR.

I was thinking, "Wow, people were pretty blatant in basing their campaigns on Tolkien back in the day." Right up till Vigo showed up, and I finally got it.

I didn't realised during The Hobbit part, I realised when the wizard sent the halfling to the elven kingdom XD

i realized the second he said king under the mountain

@@penjaminthestrange4427 same. Lol

A NEW HAND TOUCHES THE BEACON

@@Kane_the_Newschool_DM NOOOO, why does you're dialogue reset when I leave the room!

No. They do not kill random people, nor do they kill for no reason. They do not fight if they do not have to do so to survive. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

@@billhenry7213 also, a bit r/iamverysmart to just assume to know everything about their part in the story.

When everything is trying to kill you, you end up killing everything. Legolas and Gimli were not murder Hobos. They had spent their whole lives in guerilla warfare against orcs. Legolas most likely fought in the battle of five armies. Now it was open warfare again. It was a matter of survival not just for them but for their people. The orcs were determined to exterminate both elves and orcs. And enslave men

I though merry and Pippin were the murder hobos... particularly Pippin..

@@billhenry7213 Lol, look at this rookie thinking murderhobos are only those who kill everyone.

Spot on.

lmao

Is that why Agent Smith got edited in?

Nah. It's a JoJoke. :P

The profile picture makes this comment.

Oh wow, didn't think Lindybeige would show up here

On the other hand, our DnD group has almost forgotten what the main quest is, since we've had so much fun going on all these side quests. And that's incredibly fun.

@@risingsun9595 honestly with the videos lindy makes it only makes sense to me that he watches the matt covil video where he describes the lord of the rings xD

@@risingsun9595 this is awesome

But any TTRPG game can go anywhere, Lindy, you just have to say as much. If the players don't hear that there are Q-Tips to solve that problem.

Absolutely!

H.P. wouldn't be playing with them.

Of course not he's off either playing Call of Cthullhu or World of Darkness

Don't know if it has been said yet but this is so much dm of the rings

Eh, I don't know. I have a feeling that he would probably play some weird tree guardian that kidnaps two of the halfling players...

John.. J. R. R. Tokien. lol. The DM is Tolkien.

Wow, cool to notice that

@@captcorajus ohhhhh. I was wondering why it wasn't Peter.

took me about 10:25

And at the end, Sean would say, "Can you imagine if we walked the whole way?!? Someone could have died!"

Viggo wants to make a Charisma-Deception roll against Sala's evil demon character and Jon's like "dude you're gonna have to roll preeeeetty high" and Sean is like "okay, my character shows off his butt to help him". Viggo gets advantage and it actually works!

it's done really well, so obvious, haha

Matt uses the books as reference, shown in several other videos. In the books they dismiss that idea due to the eagles not being stealthy enough and stealth is the only way that could actually get this done. (You probably know this and are just being ironic, but I cannot leave any cracks.)

@@isaacbadmanson2260 Yeah, he might be joking but others are serious. The Nazgul. They can fly and easily kill eagles.

Cam Hanover LOL

YIKES that word play. I laughed out loud though

I going to be honest, while I was enjoying the DM inspiration. I was also cringing over this video until I read your comment. Thank you.

I can't believe you'd pun on the open internet... It's a bad hobbit.

Stop these cringy puns immediatly, or elves!!

The other small one in the party: a surprising adventure

The other small one in the party; the desecration of smog

The alternative individual of smaller stature within a group of adventurers of already small stature, the general destruction and devaluation of land wrought by a winged reptile who is commonly known by the name of Smaug.

The other small one in the party: The big fight

@@theminecrafterreturns7251 small man: beeg dorgon

+DummyUrD I know that the second one was based from The Lord of the Rings book, but what was the first based from?

+jetex1911 The hobbit

Drums in the deep.

We cannot get out... THEY ARE COMING.

I was just about to type that too. I totally agree.

True lol. The only worse character that I have played at least was lawful good. Because if you have a lawset that let's you justify killing certain people and creatures, you're killing a lot.

+Matthew Colville As a friend of mine said "Rollercoasters are on rails and people seem to like them."

+Matthew Colville This video, as well as others, have been shared on Reddit.com/r/DnD, and it gave your channel a lot of exposure to many D&D players. Its a great community there, and everyone loves your work. Keep making great content!

Sweet Com Truise shirt!

And congrats on 5k subs

I know you didn't come up with it Matthew, but I think "Railroading" is a poor term to indicate a game that takes place in a world with an ongoing plot. Instead of calling it "Railroading", a term with an unmistakable very negative connotation, and then having to explain you don't really mean it in a bad way - I think adopting a new term for your worthy productions makes more sense. Cheers

Sergio Montserrat LOL

didn't realize it was until you pointed it out

Sergio Montserrat i thought i was the only one who noticed

Can you imagine though? That'd be fucking, LEGENDARY!!!

1 hour later... still describing fanghorn forest. That guy was a bit of a flowery writer, for all his worldbuilding brilliance he had the rhythm of a plank of wood.

Omega2064 No, halflings are just midgets humans.

What if they don't want to leave? What if they want to stay and eat? What if it's a long journey?

@Omega2064 came to say same about gnome and halfling but saw ur comment and u are now dead >:)

@@sirjon103 Gnomes and halflings isn't even remotely the same thing

@Omega2064 What if Humans are just dire-halflings?

+Miss Communication don't feel bad, LOTS of people had the same experience!

i thought he was talking about a legit campaign at first and was smh over how it seemed like a generic tolkien rip off. once i got that it was this brilliant analogy i started laughing at myself. the way he presented it was perfect. hook you with familiarity and let it slowly surface until you realize its this mind blowing parable that we can all relate to. good stuff.

It's okay. I knew it was LOTR my first time watching but it was only when Matt said Viggo joined the group during my second time watching this that I was like..... Dammit Matt. It's fucking Viggo Mortensen. Also Sean Bean dies again

Didn't even know Tolkien's first name was John. (got it at Elijah btw)

Viggo didn't give it away?

unless they are first time gamers for like a 3 or 4 session game they will realise it eventually. I just finished a 1 year long game yesterday that left a bad taste in my mouth, because I realised we had no choice in the ending (which ended relatively bad in a way) and looking back at the game I now realise we had been railroaded the whole way. First, looking back, it didnt leave a lot of place for roleplay, because we always had to be at the next temple, the next city, the next forest, then the next city again... we could never really explore and improvise and have fun with the world, because everything was pre set-up for us. At the time I didnt realise it was a railroad campaign, but I did realise that i was finding it sad to never have the time to sit down in a tavern and actually roleplay my character, and i was finding it tiring to always have to be at the next place. What did it for me was that at the end the DM did a 'cutscene' (something was happening and we could not interact) where a npc was killed and there was nothing we could do to stop it and there was no way we could have prevented it. He did admit afterwards it was his plan all along. It kind of ruined the game for me, because now I feel like all the ''choices'' i made or how I acted never did a difference because no matter what I would have done things would have happened exactly the same, and that i kind of wasted a year watching the scenery, even if I did not realise i was watching the scenery at the time. Honestly I feel cheated and quite a bit manipulated. Dont get me wrong, we had some fun, and he is a good DM despite that, he brought innovative ways to play to the table, it was interesting, his NPC's were really really good... but i feel like i acomplished nothing. I could have been there, or not, or my character could have been a NPC, or a completely evil counterpart, it would have made no difference at all. Then why bother? Isnt DND supposed to be about co-creating a story together? Edit: sorry for the wall of text, i needed to vent a bit. and sorry for any gramatical mistakes, english is my second language.

@@MedievalVixen I disagree, a well run railroad game is not a bad thing. If it is well run, the players never realize it and always feel like they do have a choice. Your example was not a well-run game.

@@MedievalVixen And if you have other DMs in your party, forget it. They'll spot a railroad from 100 miles away, so you had better hope that they're ready to play along with your prep.

Had a GM who only ran railroad campaigns. I finally realized that the railroading was a sign of the IRL issues he had and that combination finally ended a nine year friendship. A word of advice. If you have a GM who only runs railroad, take a closer look at how he treats people IRL.

@Naters Because an RPG is about roleplaying a character, not an open world. Sure, they coincide a lot, but they are not the same thing. I mean, you can make the Halo games into an RPG. You just roleplay Master Chief. You have gotten so used to the traditional things that usually come with a video game RPG that you have tricked yourself into thinking that if something doesn't have those, it isn't an RPG. Also, why did you resort to the old, "If you don't enjoy it MY way, then you aren't really playing that or enjoying it." It just makes you seem stubborn and arrogant.

Railroading in the beginning, is actually the best thing, otherwise hours may pass and the actual fun won't have started. The best thing to do is for the players to give their characters' motives to the DM, and the the DM will put them in situations their characters would (or wouldn't) want to end up. And from there on, the railroad breaks according to the decisions of the players. The game should start in a situation though, otherwise it may get boring. And that is the reason the players and the DM need to talk, individually if must, before the actual game, so that the DM would know what the characters are up to at the time, and put them in an environment suitable for them. Not easy, but suitable, and definitely realistic. For example a rogue would end up in an organised army with a good reason only, or a paladin could end up in a death cult for the proper reasons, not randomly.

Sandbox the whole way is usually fun. Railroad the whole way is never fun. Sandbox followed by railroad is just frustrating. Railroad followed by sandbox almost always is fun.

Railroad followed by sandbox is the old school method of starting an adventure. However, I usually skip the entire introduction. The group (including the GM -- unless you're playing GM-less which is always a good option) can decide what they want to play in session zero. (That's when you meet to plan your campaign, game logistics etc and to create characters BEFORE you actually start playing.) If you already know what the players are interested in and what their characters are going to do during the first session there's no point in constructing an additional hook and forcing the characters to swallow it. The plot basically follows the characters while the characters are specifically created to play the campaign. Btw, if you create your characters together there's no way that a player might turn up with a character that doesn't match the group idea. Group pressure > GM authority

Sean is a great and experienced role player. He only joined this group though because he had died in his previous 37 campaigns.

"It's what my character would do!"

Sean was a that guy player: ThIs Is WhAt My cHaRaCtEr wOuLd Do 😂

Don't feel bad, a lot of people said the same thing!

dragon kicking out dwarves didnt give it away?

GamerNxUSN the hobbit wasnt as well known as the trilogy till the movie(s) released That's how it was for me anyway

suspicion rose the moment they asked to be lost heir of the dwarven kingdom. When he said the name of the actual heir i knew what this was.

I wasn't paying much attention at that point, but when he said "Let's called him Vigo" i was like DUDE WTF???

No, it was Jolkien Rolkien Rolkien Tolkien

It's funny stumbling across this in 2023. Came to post the same! 5k must seem a lifetime ago.

I mean he's not wrong 🤣

+YOGSCAST Rythian I think players underestimate how creative they can be! Probably worth doing a video about!

+YOGSCAST Rythian You watch Matt???? You play D&D???? YOU DM D&D??????? **Mind Blown**

Is this the Yogscast Rythian?

Well put. I myself definitely tend more towards "linear" than "sandbox" as a DM , too. But that doesn't stop my players from finding ways to move everything in a completely new direction. You don't have to always say "yes", just once in a while and the players will be happy. Also, Rythian, you probably won't come back to this comment, but a series with you as DM would be amazing...

@@mcolville In my experience players tend to put themselves "on rails". As a DM you have to remind them to be creative or they just forget they're playing D&D and everything's possible. Great Video btw. This whole series is so helpful!

yeah

Wait a second...how did the king give you a rash?

I love that he kept it so consistent. xD "Let's call him... Viggo."

@@Shrooblord "Elijah's friend Andy joins and plays the goblin scout"

make them 7

Yes he can play in a world like this, The Two Towers on PS2 was pretty good.

I was right around 4:55 when I noticed

Literally I didn't get it until 13:00. After the literal LotR scene. It was 1:00 am in my defense though...

FeeblePenguin i realised it when he mentioned thrain and thror

I began to realize at 1:00. I thought: ''That's copied from The Hobbit.''

It took me 10:25 to notice it was all about Lord of the Rings

I don't know about Lewis but I think Tolkien would be pretty pleased to see the act of worldbuilding become a thing normal people did.

+Matthew Colville Lewis and Tolkien supported all people being imaginative as much as possible. It's easy to believe that the both of these wonderfull authors would be in support of their worlds serving as a catalyst to imagination!

Lewis would die of happiness, I think. That was a man who loved above all things else the idea of people (specially children and adolescents) engaging with reading and writing. My copy of The Last Battle (final Narnia book) has a breathtaking appendix with a lecture of his on "how to write for children", I think it's one of my favorite texts ever.

Oh they would hate it, those books are their diaries for many years of their lives. Personal stuff you understand.

And the halfling also helped kill the death knight, because he too wasn't a Man( capital letters to denote race). I definitely feel like the whole first half of The Fellowship of the Ring was a sandbox. The whole decade or so the party wasted selling Frodo's home and planning those pointless crazy schemes, dicking around with Farmer Maggot and the Old Forest, having parties on the road and nearly getting TPK'd, etc.

You ever prep something in your notes but totally forget to use it in the moment? Then it turns out the thing you forgot was super important and you have to bullshit a solution at the 11th hour so the game doesn’t stall? Yeah, that.

+Björn Seine (DragonsForce) haha yeah, that's exactly the same point I figured it out, too. And yeah, the way he weaved specific quotes in -- especially that one -- was really well done. Can clearly tell this dude's a fantastic writer.

ikr?

+XerxesTheMighty Wow! Thanks for watching! Welcome to the team!

that was the type of comment that i was searching for, not all that "oh, i think i heard this before". NO. this content it's something beautiful and HAS to be experienced with love.