The Secret To A Great Fighting Game Balance Update 

What makes a good patch is my character buffed, your character nerfed.

i fuckin hate patches he always lies

This isnt a meta thing, but the greatest patch of all time was probably in 2015 when NRS completely reworked MKX to have rollback. They were the first major developer to have rollback on their main game. They also started the trend of adding rollback post launch, and i think theyre the only ones who did it on their main game.

People often say "FGC content sucks, its all tier lists, tutorials and crying about top characters." But at the same time do not give enough support to videos like this one. A thoughtful, well put together and creatively edited video that actually thought provoking and worth the time to view. Please support the creators that are already here and don't be afraid to click on videos because of low views/sub counts. I promise you will find the type of content you want to see, if you just give them an real chance.

The segment about shifting the meta is a really good point. There's a lot that could be said about Guilty Gear Strive's patches but one of them was that the truly good characters stayed good for very long even in the midst of new seasons, nerfs and balance changes. It created the impression of a stale meta in many people's eyes

A good patch is when my main becomes top tier

I don't remember the video but I think it was from Maximilian Dood explaining in a video about Killer Instinct balancing Jango I believe and the community wanted to nerf one thing (healing if I remember correctly) in specific and the devs took the time to understand what the problem was and touched another move that initially people didn't like. But because the nerf was the move that allowed him to get in that made it possible to keep him away instead of him always getting in with the move for pressure and the thing the community wanted nerfed at first didn't even need to be touched at wall. That allowed Jango to have good and bad matchups so his tool that people wanted nerf didn't need nerf and could be used by Jango players. Balancing fighting game is really difficult is not just nerf or buff, you have to touch the things correctly which is why I feel like too fast of patch notes can be bad but taking too long to fix some clearly overpowered stuff can be bad as well. Also don't blindly listen to the community people can probably be too salty with a character or move and not see the big picture. Azucena running move is a big example, I get that people don't want the punish to be too hard to do but some people were saying to make the move a high, high or not having it jail which clearly goes against with what the devs intended with the character and the move when they created it. They clearly made the move so she can get in and/or have plus frames, it being high, high or you being able to duck the second hit kills the move completely. There has to be a middle ground instead of Azucena spamming the move on people like crazy or not being able to use the move at all.

Players will always optimize. If you incentivize variety as optimal, you end up with a game that's more dynamic and fun to play. Edit: That reads horrible, but what I mean is that patches should incentivize players to want to use more things (tools, etc.), rather than restrict the things they can do.

As I was editing this, I thought a lot about the life cycle of games nowadays. I think there's a cool discussion to be had about how some games basically become a shell of themselves in the name of balance, or more often than not, by artificially keeping them alive by adding really late updates. Most recent example that I can think of is Dragon Ball FighterZ, the game right now is played way differently from how it used to, they kept updating the game to the point where former top tiers had to be buffed every patch to keep up with the new meta created by DLCs and former low tiers getting buffed. You can say that the game is way more accesible now, that all characters can be played effectively and have a lot more tools than they used to, but at the end of the day the game was forever changed and there's no way to go back to a different version. Of course the pandemic had a lot to do with what happened to DBFZ, but I know that a lot of people started losing interest because they felt like the game that they truly enjoyed, was morphing into something that they didn't find as fun (or not fun at all). I feel like the concept of "seasons" isn't handled correctly most of the times, and developers often overdo it just so people come back to the game, instead of just focusing on how the current meta is developing. But I guess this is the viewpoint of a Smash player, patches were non existent where I started playing, and are mostly irrelevant in recent years (excluding DLCs), but I'd rather have a game that barely changes than a game that's completely different in just 3 to 4 years.

In tekken 8’s defense, the next patch v1.0.4 is the first real balance patch whereas the other ones were mostly fixes, v1.0.4 is looking to be pretty good.

You focused on it at the end of the video, but I think the answer is basically that simple: a good patch increases the amount of fun things to do in a game. It doesn't have much to do with tiers (all the well-received patches still had top tiers and low tiers), it doesn't have much to do with nerfing strong chars out of the game (a new top tier will just take their place). It just has to do with increasing the number of fun tools and giving more decision points across the board.

This is super helpful! I'm planning on making my own fighting game and this definitely will help inform my decisions whenever I need to rebalance things

I think an example of a really good patch is the latest GBFVR balance patch, nerfed Nier, who was busted as all hell, minor nerfs to all the other high tiers, minor buffs to all the low tiers, except for Anila and Percy who for some reason got the biggest buffs (Percy needed the most help, tbh, but Anila seemed random to me), but what was most important is the nerfing of 66L, because now you see people having to think more about how to keep up their offensive pressure.

I’ve noticed especially after SFV added V Shift, more and more games are open to just adding entirely new moves and mechanics. The active tag (as well as reducing cost of ex moves) in DBFZ s3 were huge. And in MK11 the one that got rid of restrictive variations entirely was HUGE. Go back to that Ultimate patch and you’ll see a lot of people saying it was the craziest fighting game patch ever. But even now, DBFZ has been giving new moves and new properties to old moves (eg option to make a fireball slower or faster) to characters they want to buff. And MK1 gave Quan Chi a completely new move as well. I think this speaks a lot to how balance teams are increasingly learning they can go “under the hood” so to speak as opposed to just tweaking frame data etc. which is fantastic

Yeah i agree that, as always, the best option exists somewhere in the middle. People really underestimate how unfun super powerful moves tools can be to play, not just fight. Example is that I hate the way zeta wins in GBVSR, you play a bit of neutch and do whatever but for the most part you are just buying time till you have 100 meter, then you just delete the opponent from the screen for doing literally anything with ult chains. The character would be so much more fun with that aspect nerfed. Ideally you are able to buff other parts of the kit to compensate but id honestly take lower over all character power if it meant the character is more fun to play (while still being relatively viable). Other side of the spectrums is that low tiers just can feel frustrating to play, weak tools fighting against the busted all rounders of the modern games feels also pretty terrible. Shooting for the high/mid tier line seems like a usually good aiming point when it comes to balance imo. Obviously characters will rise and drop from their as some character always needs to be the best and worse. But its a solid target.

awesome choice of topic for a video and very relevant for the current time! keep it up 🔥🔥🔥

I hope that clip of Woolie vs Daigo never dies. Man thought he could out footsie Daigo

I love your take on patches. I agree that the focus should be on increasing freedom of expression by letting other options/characters also matter via buffs and nerfs. I think Core-A-Gaming’s video is actually less about “buff better than nerf” and more “higher power levels are more fun than lower power levels.” I think they were trying to say that, if the game is balanced but no one can do anything cool, then the game won’t be any fun. Focusing on freedom of expression in patches can help increase the options and “cool shit” players can do, which I think is healthier for fighting games.

Shoutout to my man Diaphone, ALWAYS on the case!

Your explanation of freedom really got to my issues with the state of tekken 8, so many characters just work around a few extremely overtuned tools to the point where being creative outside of them is mostly actively detrimental to my play

Took a shot every time I heard "freedom of expression." I am now dead. Good video though.

I majored in game design and development, and one of my textbooks interestingly said, "In general, buffs are better than nerfs." This is because it's easier to balance if you're only moving characters/abilities in one direction, and players won't feel punished for investing their time in certain characters after a patch drops. But to go deeper, for the exact reason that Diaphone said, its better when buffing to prioritize player expression. Nerfs can still be good, but only when it's painfully obvious and factual that something is overpowered, even to the player using that tool.

Damn, this video is really well done and has just the right amount of points and effort to feel like a whole video essay! Love this approach and can't wait to see what you do next!

We love these interesting topics ❤

Good video, really wanna see more of those. Only found Diaphone because I got into rising and call him "the rising guy".

I think there are 4 things to consider for these nuanced discussions. 1) We should always explain why a move is broken or useless. 2) Just because a character has been dominant, nerfing them to the ground is not a fair answer. This also can cause a ripple effect across the community to get other characters nerfed in spite. 3) Sometimes a character is good or bad simply because of the system mechanics, and buffing or nerfing specific things about them doesn’t work as intended. 4) Freedom of expression is key and movesets are created with purpose, so even if a character is broken but they have a useless move, that move should be fixed or buffed accordingly. Same with a weak character with a broken move, that should be fixed or nerfed accordingly.

Great video 👍

You brought up MK1, and youre right about the Baraka/Cyrax patch, but you must not have seen the last two patches that added a whole bunch of moves to under performing characters. Quan Chi's armor portal and Reptile being able to cancel sky drop to make him a much trickier character, and Shujinko getting another 1-2 moves for every matchup

The absolute best Patches I've encounted really hated clerics.

The thing with patches is not do multiples patches in every update (ejem MK), that make the FGC more volatile, so with SF6, is better to liberate one patch every 6 months during a Season, the same for Tekken, but for Tekken is better do every 3 months.

Core A gaming is a gem in the fighting game community

Another banger video ❤❤❤

Honestly, as someone who was hooked on Granblue Versus BECAUSE of COVID starting up (and no Guilty Gear yet in sight), that patch really was a killer. It basically enhanced everything I -disliked- about the game already, and then let Belial walk around reminding you of all the spice your characters lost.

Question, what are the headphones he uses? They seem familiar but cant get the name

SG soundtrack my goat

Great video

Yea i pretty much agree with this. Good takes

Not enough freedom of expression is the biggest thing for me in fighting games. I stopped playing sf6 cuz i felt i didnt have enough freedom of expression. Too many moves were not cancelable, combos felt impossible to improvise in the moment. Might just be me for sf6 though

Tekken 8 is gonna be in a good spot after the next patch. A lot of characters are viable, but the top tiers are a step above everyone else. If they normalize them and really get a chance to see how the power level turns out, T8 has the potential to really be the best game in terms of character viability.

I consider umvc3 a balance patch. And a great patch at that. Some characters are still busted like Vergil, Phoenix, zero, but we still have options at our disposal. Xfactor , tac infinites, Spencer throw tech, etc

Idk how I got here but tell this man to speak to the Helldivers 2 team.

Ok I actually watched the video now and I think its pretty smart and well made, i haven't liked a lot of recent patches besides sf6 small one, and that one was very small. However i also am in the super minority for the recent granblue patch at least, cause i really miss the pressure that 66l gave, its still good but it just doesn't feel the same anymore and i get to spam dp less now

I think every fighting game should have at least 3 characters that remain untouched in every patch. If it was 3S, they'd be Dudley, Urien and Akuma. In VSav, they'd be Bulleta, Bishamon and Felicia. These would be characters that embody how the game is meant to be played, and every other character should be buffed or nerfed to be on par with them. When I see balance patches that change EVERY character, it tells me the devs don't have a concrete idea of how the game should play.

I wish this video was longer with more games and more patches explained great video

no thoughts on ggst s3?

Can you... Buff my neutral (see what I did there) and teach us how to overload stacks in neutral? I see top level players not only condition the opponent with lots of buttons, frame traps, mixups and setups upclose but I just don't understand what the toolset is in neutral/footsies. Most characters have 1 or 2 space control tools, a good poke and *maybe* a good mobility special. Yet I see and experience top players freezing me in neutral so well without taking too much risk. There's this rhythm to movement and putting out options that I'm not getting. Maybe I've answered my own question above but I'd really appreciate any advice to stop feeling like I'm stringing together neutral "set pieces" and just doing one dimensional movement or waiting until the next set piece.

🔥🔥🔥

Nerfs are buffs are relative. The focus should be reaching a goal via these things. The primary goal is to make the game more fun. Is something unfun change it. Either via a buff or nerf.

The whole "don't nerf top tiers" reductive view was just stupid from the outset. If a character is so strong that the game just devolves into a mess, buffing everyone to that level only creates a really dumb game. How many games are there where you go "wow, it's so fun...except for when you fight against the top tiers?"

patches that shift the meta is the most important, so many recent patches are top 1 getting nerfed to top 1 and bottom 1 getting buffed to bottom 1, shoot some kneecaps and fuck it make a grappler top tier for 1 patch, stale meta is boring as hell

Yun SA1 is the high tier that no one plays in SF3 despite SA1Yun playing like a totally different character.

That is how to make Honda a Better carecter in sf6: buff and nerf.

I think nerf/buff just comes down to what powerlevel the developers intend the game to be at. The S2 patch of Granblue wasn't bad because it was mostly nerfs it was bad because they introduced a 90s OP character to the game. Sometimes the entire cast is too strong for the game you intended and need to be scaled down to enable the gameplay you intended. I think people get too wrapped up in what's better psychologically between nerfs and buffs when in the end all that matters is if the game is made better by the patch. We may initially bawk at nerfs but if we boot up the game and have a better time that's all that really matters.

Hot take: The "all nerf" GBVS patch made the game better and set it up for better, more reasonable buffs later. Fuck Belial though...

Is a good patch when Namco buff Bryan.

They really nerfed Cammy in time for Akuma beating the crap out of me in the corner. 😂

Thankful that mk1 is in a much better place now

Ok

I always feel like the most important metric is always increasing the interesting & dynamic choices players can make. Ig this is sort of the same idea as expression, but whenever people talk about expression it kinda feels ephemeral & almost meaningless to me at least

I wont lie. I'm dooming a bit with SF6. After seeing the changes people have found from the location test, i REALLY hope theres more. Capcom, imo, has really dropped the ball with SF6's post-launch content/communication. And its gonna sting if all someone like Manon got for a buff is "she can now do a combo".

Buffs > nerfs, but on the other hand a bad buff can be way more character-ruining than a bad nerf. A bad nerf might get fixed eventually but a bad buff might just erase the character forever, because now what are the devs going to do, take away this new toy they gave to the struggling low-tier? You can play a low-tier and have fun, but it feels awful to play a good character *wrong* just because you liked their old bad playstyle better than their new good one. Like take Street Fighter for example. Let's say Guile was weak so they gave him, the iconic keepaway zoner, the craziest drive rush jab in the game that fuckin teleports from halfscreen and leaves him +ob in throw range. Well now the Guile player, who probably picked Guile because they like the down-back playstyle, is incentivized to throw away all that boom/kick garbage and go unga with endless pressure. But they didn't pick Guile for that. They want to play the patient campy game, but every time they do, they lose, because the character is now balanced around a completely different playstyle. I don't think anything feels worse than that honestly. Your character isn't even bad, they're good, they're just not your character now.

So i guess gbfvr is on the lesser side of patches it did nerf one of the busted top tiers and so mechanics as well as buff like 2-3 characters majorly but otherwise the games basically the same not really a shack up and even tho the said theyd buff the low tier some of them got nothing.

I just want AKI to be good man IDK

When the patch file size is over 1gb and it's free ...... it's good.

What makes a good balance patch is letting the game breathe as of what Street fighter 6 is doing, allowing for at least one very minor 1-2 change patch for certain characters and one major balance patch per year! Unlike Street fighter 5 and most other recent fighting games like mk1 and Tekken 8 etc where you are getting 7-8 balance patches per year. Letting a game breathe with only one patch per year shows extreme confidence in your product and your playerbase! If a player can't handle 12 months of no balance changes then forget em, let them leave to a new game because that's how it has always been for 30 years. Look at how fond players are of older titles that either never got a patch of any kind or got a rerelease with changes.

Current Guilty Gear Strive is super great IMO.

good vid, jiyuna still annoying af tho

The thing about NRS patches is that they try to whelm the cries of casual players who hate a specific thing instead of being comprehensive and make a patch that fixes overall issues. It’s especially irritating since they release a patch every Invasions season (which is two or so months). Thankfully they seem to be getting their act together with the Ermac update.

I'm finally early for once woooooooo

Problem matchups are inevitable, but if the game gets patched in a way that makes it so no character is downright infuriating to fight, then I think it's a good patch. That said, I want every character except my main to be nerfed to the ground.

it depends, tekken 8 is too aggressive, more buffs to mid tier make the game like a casino. While in kofxv snk removed all strong tools making character really boring.

A good patch needs a couple things: -Remove all new system mechanics (This new generation never had to play honest footsies without “Drive Rush” or “Heat” or “Wild Assault”) -Nerf pressure characters (I beat people using honest-to-goodness footsies, not bullshit buzzwords like “Conditioning” and “Frametraps”) -Nerf zoners (I paid for this game so I could have an honest fight) -Nerf Faust, Asuka R, Yoshimitsu, Blanka, Mr. Game and Watch, etc. (Stupid bullshit RNG scrub characters) -Buff the honest characters (Ramlethal, Feng, Ken, Slayer), because those are REAL characters, unlike the other scrubs

To put into perspective the irreparable damage that was caused by people misinterpreting the core-a gaming video, the opinion of "no nerf only buff" got transported over by illiterate gremlins over to card games as well.

I'm usually against need a but at this point tekken 8 has entire systems and the S tier that need to cut cut off at the knees. I hate 50/50 fests which is why I stopped playing mk

Buff good nerf bad zug zug

One thing that I don't think was considered here is patch time. If you only release patches one or two times a year and it's univeraally bad. Game over man. And if you are only releasing in short frequency the patch needs to be a banger.

"Your".... LOLOLOLOL!

At least tekken puts out patches often. SF6 taking forever.

New characters often so that no balance patches needed to make the game feel fresh

The shield balance patch for Melty Blood should be what SF6 aims at, when it comes to parry : low / high parry, to make it riskier to use.

Cannot trust ASW with balancing

People need to stop asking for change just for the sake of change, if it aint broke dont fix it

All of this is part of why KOFXV’s last major patch was such a disaster. Characters all lost expression and power. The power ceiling went down massively and the characters that got nerfed the least are now top tier. Not surprising you can hardly find people on ranked anymore. (Bias: all my mains got nerfed.)

The modern games has Not freedon expression, Not, nothing

People love to talk about how fun unbalanced games are until it's time for them to actually play an unbalanced game