Hi Maurizio. Made these for my two nieces and nephew who came to Thanksgiving Dinner - they like eating almost nothing! But they gobbled, pun intended :), these down with butter and the entire family thought they were fabulous. The best part was that I was able to make the levain Tuesday night, proof and build out the pan of rolls on Wednesday and plop into the fridge overnight. I took them out at 1:30 on Thanksgiving, proofed for about 2 1/2 hrs. and then into the oven. They are delicious. I've been a follower for a long time, so I'm not surprised that these came out great too. The family knows what cookbook to put into my stocking this year! Thanks so much, Maurizio, and have a Happy Holiday season.
Ah that's just so, so wonderful to hear, Evan! Thanks for the comments. Really great work modifying the timeline to suit your cooking and baking schedule! I hope you love my cookbook, too, and of course, this recipe is in there 🙂 Have a wonderful rest of the week and enjoy! (Oh, and if by some chance some of these rolls went uneaten, French toast are calling!)
These are the best! Tanzhong is a real secret to the tenderness. Since the family had these, I am now the official roll baker. I divide them into 60 gram balls as we felt they were a bit large, but I think I will roll a half dozen larger ones for those French toast slices! Your recipes rock!
That's perfect, Viktoria! I've played with larger and smaller rolls-each has their benefits! These are just so, so good as French toast... Can't wait to hear what you think 🙂
I made these and proofed in the fridge the day before thanksgiving. Today was thanksgiving and of all the dishes I prepared everyone loved these rolls and raved about them. This was one of the best sourdough bakes Ive made. Thank you for your recipe.
I made these for New Year's Eve, and oh my, oh my, so delicious! I appreciate the detail and the time you took to explain everything properly. It was a success!!!!!! Thanks again, and Happy 2024!🎉
Hi. I made the dinner rolls exactly as you did in your video over 2 days (I couldn’t leave them in the fridge over night). They are delicious. It’s hard not to eat them all at once. I drizzled some seeds over (everything bagel style), and fresh out of the oven I added a touch of butter (not necessary, but it’s so good). For next time, I will add less sugar (half of your recommendations), but keep the sugar in the levain. I didn’t find your method to take more time than the usual recipe. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us.
Baked these rolls according to the recipe. Taste was fabulous! However, despite excellent oven rise, texture was not what I would call "light and airy" but a bit tough. And, with the stretch and fold process the dough was very stiff and not loosely elastic like in the video. Looking back I recall that the mixing seemed to go well past the recommended 8 minutes for the one-by-one adding of the butter patties (too cold? too large?). I may have "over-worked" the dough trying to incorporate the butter patties as they rode around between the dough ball and bowl in the KA stand mixer. I look forward to baking these again soon, but would prefer to reach "light and airy" perfection. Thanks again for the great recipe!
So glad you're enjoying the book, Sue! I've heard from bakers who have parbaked them about 1/2 to 3/4 of the way, frozen them once fully cooled, then thawed overnight in the fridge, finished baking the next morning. What I'm going to do is place the rolls shaped and in the pan then covered into the fridge overnight. On Thanksgiving, I'll take them out, let them proof a few hours until very puffy, then bake an hour or two before the meal. They reheat very well in the oven just before eating!
Wonderful recipe thanks for sharing! Do you think this would work with a small percentage of 100% whole wheat? If so would you agree it should be added to the roux to soften the bran?
It certainly would, and yes, using it as the pre-cooked flour is a fantastic way to go about it. It may bring a bit more acidity/sourness to the final rolls, but nothing I would imagine would be overpowering!
I have used my starter a few times for dinner rolls, but there was always something missing. I think it was the sugar in the levain. We'll see! I just really love Claire's chive rolls.
These look wonderful! I'll be making these today and bake tomorrow. I made your cardamom rolls last week and they disappeared in a jiffy - as they always do :) I finally ordered your cookbook. Can't wait to get it and try out new recipes!! Thanks so much for sharing all your wonderful sourdough and baking wisdom! p.s.: I baked these this morning and they might possibly be the best thing I've ever baked. Amazing
Thank you for sharing this. I would love to make these can you plz tell me would all these rules/measurements be the same if I live in a hot humid country? Should I make any changes? Thank you ❤
Just be sure to watch the hydration of the dough, you might want to hold back some water I call for in the recipe during mixing to avoid over hydrating the dough. Also, keep an eye on the temperatures in your kitchen, if it's warm you might want to cool the water used for mixing, too, so the dough doesn't get too far above 78°F (25°C) at the end of mixing! If you're new to final dough temp and trying to keep your dough warm/cool, check out my guide, here: www.theperfectloaf.com/the-importance-of-dough-temperature-in-baking/ Have fun!
Thank you so much. I will use cool water as my kitchen is between 26-29 at this time and will hold back some of the water to balance humidity which is about 70-80% 🙏🌼
Knead by hand for 5-6 minutes before adding the butter. I like to use the slap/fold technique to quickly strengthen the dough. Once it is smooth and cohesive, then work in the butter but smearing it into the dough as you pinch and fold it in the bowl. Then finish the dough by folding it in the bowl, or if you're confident, more slap/fold on the counter. Should take maybe 10 minutes (not including the 10min rest I still recommend!).
Hi this is the best rolls I made. I make them. For every Holliday and between.your recipes are great and you are amazing baker.love your videos.and the way you explain everything. well I have a question do you subtract the flour and milk or water from the total Amount your recipe calls or is. Just extra ingredient . I am ordering your book from Amazon is that resipe in it.Thank you many blessings to you.
Thanks! Great video/recipe... Yup, going to make these : ) Also - not a huge deal, but your affiliate link to the USA pan is for the 8in., not the 9in. I know you can select another size there, but I sometimes overlook that. I only mention it because I am in the market for the larger pan and almost bought another 8in. whew.
appreciate the recipe. Got your book as well - wonderful work! One question though. Recipes including this one don't specify if the oven is fan or top/bottom heat. Could you clarify that for me real quick?
So glad you like the book, Justin! All the recipes in the book are non-convection (no fan) unless otherwise specified. So with this recipe, no fan! Hope you like these rolls, they're too good.
They will likely over proof if left that long and they were "fully" proofed. It's better to shape them and place them into the pan, then cover it and place the dough into the fridge. It'll last 1-2 days this way, then take it out the day you want to bake them and let them finish proofing until puffy, then bake.
These look really interesting, thanks! One question... are they noticeably sweet? I've been looking for a soft sourdough burger bun recipe for a while now but they all seem to have a fair bit of sugar in them. Would this recipe suffer if I left it out of the main dough? (I can live with the 15g in the levain - I think)
They are definitely NOT sweet. The sugar is there more for textural reasons, to help yield a super soft bun. As I mention in the vid, they have a subtle, mellow sourness kind of like buttermilk. I don't think you'll be disappointed with these as they are!
I just bought the book! I can’t wait to read and grow my knowledge on sourdough bread. I have been using a formulaic method in making my bread. Do other types of breads other than Sourdough bread have a formula? I basically choose the size of my Banneton proofing basket. I know the total weight of dough the basket can handle. From the weight I can calculate the Total flour and then choose my Hydration , preferment, and salt percentages. Does this mathematical approach to bread only work for sourdough bread? I would love to learn a mathematical approach to other types of bread!
@@theperfectloaf I know that I mostly do a 70% hydration, 2% salt, and maybe 35% preferment for rustic or sourdough bread. Are there standard percentages for eggs, butter, oil, milk? I couldn’t find any in the BBA. Just individual recipes. I bought your book last night and can’t wait to crack it open.
@@DLovWife No standard percentages, per se, just intuitive guidelines, I think. Since everything is related to every other thing, it all has to be considered (multiple dependent variables). Let me know how you like the book!
Great lessons; learning much! Where did you purchase the ceramic (?) dough prepping mixing bowl? I believe you said it was non-stick. The size seems to be just what I’m looking for… appreciate you and your teaching style.
I've not tried avocado oil, but many report great success with Earth Balance Vegan Butter. And for the cow milk, yes a full-fat oat milk or nut milk will work very well!
I want to prep these the day before so all i have to do is pop them in the oven on thanksgiving. Do i put them in the fridge to long proof once shaped into balls? Then butter before going into the oven? And should I let them get to room temp after the long fridge proof? Thank you.
After you divide the dough and shape it, place the balls into the pan and cover. Then, put the pan into the fridge overnight. The next day, take the rolls out and let them finish proofing on the counter, 2-3 hrs depending on the temperature until very puffy (like you see in the video), then apply the egg wash + salt, and bake. If you bake a little early than your meal, you can slide them back into the oven to gently warm. Enjoy!
You could, just know the more whole grains, the denser and potentially more sour/complex the flavor-which is totally fine in my book, especially given the added flavor and nutrition. I'd start at 10-20% whole grain flour to total flour in the recipe, then work it up through testing.
Your sourdough pain de mie is the only recipe I use to make our sandwich bread now and is probably the best bread I’ve ever tasted so I’ve come back for more!! I’m about to make these rolls for the holidays and want to know if all 16 rolls will fit in the 10” round pan? I saw a picture and it looked like there were only 12 in there? Do I need the 9” square pan to fit all 16? Btw, I’m hauling my stand mixer the 800 miles to my parents’ house to make these and everyone is very excited! 😂
Amazing! So glad you like the PdM-you'll love these rolls, too. You can definitely fit 16 in the pan, it will make for smaller rolls (which I think is good, too). I hope you guys love em and happy holidays!
Hi Maurizio! I have a strong starter that doubles easily within 4 hours. But when I use it for a sweet levain, hardly anything happens and the sourdough dies. Do you have an idea where the problem lies? I appreciate any hint you can give me!
It can really depend on how much sugar your adding to the levain. If you're using one of my recipes, I have that carefully accounted for. But also, when you add sugar, you will need much more fermentation time for the levain!
You can definitely refrigerate it, but I wouldn't use it for bread. Instead I'd use it to make a discard recipe, like this Italian cake: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Q51c435KSRk.html
When you add the bread flour to the mixing bowl, is the 44g of flour from the tangzhong subtracted the 550g you have listed; and the same for the liquid?
In the video description above, the tangzhong flour and liquid is already removed from the totals and shown in the Tangzhong section. In the Dough Mix Ingredients, that's everything you add to the mixer right at that time. Hope that makes sense!
@@theperfectloaf So, if I do have this correct. To the mixing bowl, the following occurs: Add the tangzhong (which contains 41g flour and 166ml milk) Add the levain (which contains 74 fresh flour, 74ml fresh water and 30 starter (and 30 sugar)) Add 328g AP flour and 148 bread flour Add 181 ml water This brings the total flour to 41+74+328+148 = 591g This brings the total liquid to 74+166+181 = 421ml Adding the salt @ 11g, the sugar @ 53g and the butter @ 95g then brings the final weight to: 591+421+11+53+95+30g(ripe starter) to 1201g When I made the rolls yesterday I did NOT account for the 74 starter and water so my total was 1201 + 144 = 1345g. Tasted ok but wasn’t correct. Now I think I have the correct numbers. Since this was a new recipe for me that I will be using for Thanksgiving, I always have a test run making the item. Glad I did. Now I know. Even with the incorrect values, tastes very good. Will have to correct everything now and get the true taste. Dann
@@dannshapiro1201 Ahh, yes that would cause an issue. Glad they turned out okay, though! It's tricky listing all these ingredients this way, and I do it in a similar fashion on my website. Where I list "Total Formula" that's where I have all ingredients needed together in one big chart. As I've written above, I bread them out to try and avoid confusion. Have a wonderful holiday meal!
@@theperfectloaf do you think the weight of butter could be translated to ghee directly or should I use more? I migh have been a heck of a chef but now I am only a humble hobby baker 😁
Could this recipe be used to make stand-alone rolls on a larger cookie sheet? Or would the softness of them not give them enough strength to stand on their own?
If you shape tightly, it could work. But yes, the dough is very soft! I think if the dough isn't spread out too far and they can slightly support each other, it's better.
I’ve made this twice before and they came out amazing, i even turned it into a loaf! Now I can’t get my levain to rise when I add sugar for some reason
Amazing to hear that! Hmm, that's very strange. You should see *more* rise in your starter if the correct amount of sugar is added. Be sure you're not adding too much, because yes, at some point it will reduce activity significantly. It does take longer to ripen with sugar (and be sure it's nice and warm, too)!
You can make it the morning you mix, or the day before. If I make it the day before, I cover and put it in the fridge. Try to let it warm to room temp before mixing it into the dough.
Hey, Deb! I bet they were a little underproofed. Be sure to keep that dough warm and to give them as much time as needed in bulk fermentation and proof. The dough should be *super* soft and puffy to the touch when baking. Keeping the dough warm will speed up fermentation. Let me know how the next bake goes!
This is the hardest loaf I’ve tried. Not sure what I’m doing wrong. Also, love the book bought it when it went on pre-sale a long time ago. 3rd attempt today. So, I work long days leave house around 530 am and usually get home around 530pm. How can I work around my times?
Is it possible for you to make them over the weekend? Here’s a sample schedule: make the levain at 9:00pm, Friday evening. Saturday morning at 8:00am start main recipe and work though to shaping (finished shaping around 2:15pm, approximately). After shaping and placing in pan, place wrapped pan in freezer. Take rolls out of freezer about 4 hours before baking. Hope that helps. Basically you just need to have 6-7 hours mostly free to mix, bulk ferment, and shape the rolls before freezing them to bake at your convenience.
It's definitely a challenging dough, but using the refrigerator helps quite a bit. Pop it in there for 20 minutes before you divide and shape the dough.
Funny story: My partner and I were working out the Thanksgiving menu last night. I said, "I'll check Perfect Loaf to see if there is a good dinner roll recipe." I woke up this morning and saw this in my news feed. The universe has spoken! I've been working my way through so many of your recipes. I've asked Santa for your cookbook for Christmas, so lets hope I've been a good boy this year.
It isn't unfortunately! But really, any FT recipe will work well 🙂 I do like to slice these rolls and let them sit out on the counter, uncovered, overnight, to get a little stale before making FT with them.
Thanks for the reply. I just realized that I had the oven on convection bake. For the last 5 months of bread baking. No wonder everything cooked in 15 minutes less than it should have. Argh. I’m an idiot. (PS My mom and I are both hooked on your writing style and video presentations. Great job!)
Yes, I would say you might need to bake a little longer, depending on how think the pan is. Also, if you find that tends to stick, very liberally butter the glass pan before putting in the rolls, or line it with parchment paper (just in case)!
Any tips to convert this from sourdough to active-yeast? Thinking about just making the sweet-levain with just yeast instead of the starter, but not sure how much yeast to use?
Hmm, it's hard to say, Jake. I'm guessing 1% yeast to total flour in the recipe? I don't have a lot of experience with commercial yeast! Definitely go with osmotolerant yeast due to the sugar in the dough.
I just made this today with fresh yeast instead of the sourdough levain. In my country we don't have instant yeast, just fresh/refrigerated yeast which rises quicker and with more force than dried instant. A few minutes before starting the tangzhong, I mixed 4g fresh yeast, 85g warm water, 15g caster sugar until completely dissolved. Once it started to bubble after about 15 minutes I added 85g all purpose flour so it should be about equal to the sourdough levain from the recipe. While the tangzhong cooled, it nearly overflowed the cup! Fresh yeast (and I assume dried instant) rises faster and higher than sourdough levain so you have to keep a closer eye on the dough during bulk fermentation and proofing, and you'll probably adjust those times shorter. Good luck!
Mine came out like soup. What in the world did I do wrong? You said it was okay to use one type of flour if that’s what we had. I used an all purpose 476 g 11.5% protein.
That flour should have been just fine, but it sounds like the dough was overhydrated quite a bit. It might just be the flour you're using. I would reduce the liquid in the recipe dramatically next time, that will definitely help fix this issue. Sorry about this!!
Would there be a difference between a stiff sweet leaven and the sweet leaven used in this recipe? I'd assume that the stiff sweet leaven would ferment slower, but also keep peak longer?
In my experience, yes, a stiff levain has a bit more leeway in terms of when it has to be used (a larger ripeness window). It should also result in a stronger dough, which is why I don't go with a stiff levain here, the dough is already quite strong (helped in part by the tangzhong)!
Hi, if handmix the dough, if there is any technique required as if has to be similar way as the way you did the folding ? What's the use of sugar does to the dough ? If could be reduced in dough and just use pure starter rather than sweet starter ?
If mixing by hand, I would use the slap/fold technique: www.theperfectloaf.com/guides/slap-and-fold/ Sugar brings a little sweetness to the dough, but more importantly, it makes the final buns even softer and also helps them stay soft for longer. If you reduce the sugar in the dough, expect that fermentation will speed up dramatically, you'd have to keep an eye on the dough and divide it earlier!
@@mowens4551 I add potato in when mixing all the ingredients together. Be cautious not to add too much to this recipe because it's already a very soft dough!
@@theperfectloaf finally got around to making these and my goodness they were worth the effort. Soooo very soft. This will be on repeat every Monday for burger night. Thank you.
@@theperfectloaflove that you take the time to be so detailed. It’s what I love about your videos. You give your viewers and fans all of the tools and information they need to succeed. Now it’s up to them! I can’t wait to start working on this recipe ❤
@@Coinforthought thank you, Nicky 🙂 It's all about the details! I hope you love these, I just mixed a double batch last night for my kids' Thanksgiving lunches. Have fun!
Yes too much repeated talk of almost 7 mins ….im sure these are lovely but pls get to the method earlier wud be better …. Tang hi g is the method Asians use for the sifted breads n yes the quantity of sugar too but not necessarily castor … though it helps to dissolve faster ….Thank uuu
