After working some with the ADS-B development program, it was clear to me it would end up being way more useful for oceanic purposes than in the US mainland.
Sorry to respond a year later - but ADS-B is not very useful oceanic controllers. It is true that planes flying with ADS-B have access to climb procedures that otherwise would be unavailable (www.faa.gov/nextgen/programs/adsb/pilot/itp/). If you know of any other procedures like this that rely on ADS-B, I apologize for my ignorance. But ADS-B still relies on ground stations to receive data for use by controllers (cincinnatiavionics.com/ads-b-101-what-you-need-to-know/#:~:text=Let%E2%80%99s%20look%20at%20each%20part%20of%20it%3A%201,to%20watch%20airplanes%20move%20around%20More%20items...%20), so the main oceanic positioning technology is still ADS-C which works over satcom datalink as opposed to UHF radar (or more recently ADS-B) over the mainland. Since it travels through private networks like Iridium, satcom is not free. If an airline must use a plane not equipped with these expensive technologies they must still relay necessary info through HF.
@@Marg1312 Thanks for the reply! I didn't really think it would necessarily help controllers particularly in the near future but was mainly thinking down the road and maybe a bit outside the box. Perhaps some tracks where pilots could self separate to some extant. I know this has been greatly resisted by pilot groups in the US NAS not wanting to take responsibility for separation. Heck supercomputers using all the additional winds aloft data being generated might be able to accomplish just as effective outcomes through track/altitude assignments taking all flight characteristics and destinations into accounting. The last three years of my career were interesting looking alleged issues with ADS-B IN/OUT as well as TIS-B and FIS-B which really don't seem to have gone anywhere. I always thought IN could be a game changer for TCAS performance.
@@boatlover1875 Thank you for your reply as well! Thinking outside the box is absolutely necessary in today's world - plus it's fun! ADS-B is becoming a useful tool for pilots to separate themselves from traffic, like a second pair of eyes in case ATC misses something (which is quite rare). Though I am sure that some areas over the vast oceans could be self-separated, it is still a good idea to have flight service stations on the ground to make sure that the aircraft have correct weather info, traffic info, and contact radio contact should an emergency happen.
when looking on FR24 FIR/UIR often said shanwick When i flew to and from st maarten it said san juan oceanic on arrival and likely new york oceanic on leaving. well this video clears up a lot
1:57 Wrong! The Prestwick centre only handles non-verbal communications for the Shanwick oceanic area. All voice communications are handled at the Ballygirreen ATC centre in the West of Ireland.
@@PatrickBijvoet also aggre I’m good friends with a 737 captain. And although he is not them people I find it helpful. Not a flex or anything but he has flow with mentor pilot
Really strange question but was wondering if anyone could answer. What would happen if there was a fire in one of these control stations, for example Prestwick centre, what would all the controllers do and where would they go?
Some redundancy is built into the system same as domestic ATC can auto shed the work to the other center or in extremely bad and rare case shut down the traffic or slow down and specs out traffic even more until workload is back under control. Most oceanic communication is HF anyway and there are safeguards. Could it happen like anything yes it could. Extremely rare of a total shutdown but possible. Domestic centers you can just reroute around the problem center not quite as easy for oceanic but possible.
Isn’t there something in Ireland too at Shannon?. I would be 100% sure that there is total redundacy in this system . I remember watching a video of a Virgin 747-200, who was talking to Shannon. That was in the late 90’s and the waypoints were read out and then read back by the flight crew.
You need to have altitude and oceanic crossing speed exact. You might file at one speed (%mach). But the aircraft behind or in front of you might be different. You can do all the speed up/slow down before the crossing gateway but not uncommon to get speed adjustments for spacing on the track. If the higher speed kills your extra fuel speak up quickly because your stuck with that speed at least until you get to the exit point on either Canada, Coastal US or Shannon for eastbound flights. Also not uncommon to get any one of the three. Speed adjustment, altitude adjustment or extreme example a track bump. If your crew is having a real bad day then al three....ask me how I know!!!
Very interesting. I am Australian but have been on the train coming down from Glasgow early afternoon watching planes enter the “Tracks” . It was fascinating to watch knowing what was happening. I assumed that speeds would be pretty close to correct as would altitudes. I never thought about what happens if an error was made.
This could all be avoided by placing GPS transceivers in all transoceanic aircraft. The aircraft transmits it's position to a satellite, which relays the position to a ground station. The controller sees the exact position on a screen. Thus all aircraft will be positively controlled no matter their position on the planet.
This would eliminate any downed aircraft from being lost. The signal would be transmitted every second just before ditching or emergency landing. This technology has been around since the early 90s
@@extremereclusefallows5779 Getting a GPS position has never been the major issue - it's transmitting it back. People seem to forget GPS is a one way technology. That said, it's also important to recognise that GPS is not infallible and everything MUST be possible without, and also why requirements on ADS-B sources are so strict
You're confusing two separate things. Swanwick is the ATC centre, that is used for domestic flights including the London Terminal Control and London area control. Shanwick is the name given to parts of the airspace over the Atlantic, and is controlled from Prestiwick.
@@robbie9082 Shanwick is a joint operation for the North Atlantic clearance system, which is mostly coordinated between SHANnon (Ireland) and PrestWICK (Scotland). SHAN & WICK. These centres communicate with other North Atlantic ATC centers, such as Gander, New York, Iceland, Brest, London, Santa Maria, Madrid...
