the indecisiveness is the best part! Just like real life, there is no perfect outcome. Dont get too stuck in analysis paralysis. Follow your heart. Do what RP Harry would do. Or just do you brother. Loving these uploads
Love that you stick to what you believe in/what you're RP-ing as. Turning away from manipulating the poor old woman at the last moment felt so natural/realistic.
Save-load system was so unreliable on launch (corrupting your saves permanently from every little thing like opening and closing doors, researching thoughts, swapping tools etc.) I didn't dare to save scum even after 10 big patches over the next half a year.
Like a fifth of the red checks are so important you have to either savescum or play through the game 4-5 times to get the full picture. Some, like the dubious little creature hanging out northwest of the insane voyeur man, shouldnt be checks at all. What were they thinking.
If you forge the signature, the villagers have a way out - if Evrart keeps to his word then hooray, but if he doesn't, villagers can claim that his construction project is unlawful and if he tries to wave the accusation, they can claim to have never signed these documents (which is correct) and now Evrart will have a forging charge on his hands.
Can you explain this a little bit more? I was under the impression that forging the signatures meant rhat Evrart *wouldn't* be able to keep his promise, since the moment construction crews showed up the villagers would obviously know they hadn't signed anything and cause a whole legal mess with whatever forging charge you're referring to.
@@TessHKM presumably if they liked what evrart was doing they could simply choose not to mention that they didnt sign it unless things go bad. The washerwoman seems intelligent and liliene isnt too concerned about that stuff it seems. The idea isn't foolproof and could benefit from communication with them but it is workable
@@Clover999X3 but we know they don't like what Evrart is doing (construction). You have to emotionally manipulate the SHIT out of Isobel to get her signature. What makes you think she would just roll over and accept it?
Actually, forging the signature is a 100% out, it's said at some point on the game that the fake signatures will be found out, so the document will have no meaning. In the game is more of a "Let's hope evrat find this out only AFTER we already left the town" and that's the fear in forging it
Brady at the start of Disco Elysium: I don't know anything about politics. I don't want to talk about that stuff, please leave me alone. 🥺 Brady this episode: There is no ethical consumption under capitalism. We have a responsibility to make the world better. 😤 Love the character arc.
Brady: ok I'll do it, I'll convince her Suggestion: great, we will need shameless mental manipulation in order to convince this old lady Brady: I changed my mind
i'm proud of you brady! this is what DE is all about! Also it's amazing that you can have your mind made up but the game basically tells you: "you really need to set aside your morals to convince this old lady". The game might've not progressed much, but you certainly have.
However you end up resolving it, I think that the conclusion of getting your gun back will be even more satisfying to you as a therapist than trying to find a good way to resolve Claire's problems.
@@dodiswatchbobobo If you have the option to forge signatures, I think you should have the option to talk to the drunks as well? But I'm not 100% sure about this.
Thank you for this great series. One of the best content creators I have ever seen, a fresh of breath air without fake reactions, pandering "thoughts" etc. Also your RP-ing is just great. Looking forward to re-watch it when it is done.
Even though you literally ended the episode where you started it, it still had some pace to it and I liked that. Insofar as your gun; there is no way to get it without Evrart's help. The game forces you to make the decision: either get Isobel's signature, or throw the envelope as is in the mailbox. Either way, the choice is yours.
If the envelope arrives without the signature the notary or whatever will just call Evrart and they'll send the Hardies to get the signatures for him. If you forge the signature they'll start the legal process and they'll only realize what you did way down the line, forcing Evrart to restart the whole process, get all of the signatures again, and so on. There IS a correct answer to this problem, it's just hidden under dozens of checks. There's a canonical reason Martinaise is the way it is, and a reason the fishing village is worse, and a youth center is not going to fix this. Not that Evrart's plan was to fix the fishing village in any way, mind, but imagine getting into politics on a DE comment section.
@@anniemay555 the canonically correct answer is to tell those petit bourgeoisie peasant fucks to get out of the way of progress for the working class. Mostly joking, I think the fishing village questline is a very intentional example of a political/social theme embodied by Evrart and the Union more generally. Everything about Evrart is set up to make you viscerally, intuitive dislike him and consider him a bad person, and everything about Joyce and Isobel and Lilienne is intended to make you like them (you have to really TRY to not have sympathy for a single mom and a cute grandma who gives you a free room). But that doesn't change the material fact that, due to class disparities and self-interest, Evrart objectively makes life in Martinaise better and his opponents objectively make it worse.
So, I think a reminder of the mission's context would help, but this may also count as a spoiler so be warned. What Evrart specifically asked Harry to do was to get two signatures from the people who live in the coast. He clearly meant Lilliene and the old lady, but he didn't said that, he just said the signatures have to come from the people who live in the coast. So, with that loophole, there should be a way to give Mr. Claire what he asked without giving him what he wants.
Oh, I got to the end! Brady, did you notice Evrart said “You didn’t mail the signatures”, not “You did not GET the signatures”. Nobody can know everything. I didn’t try it myself, but I think you can mail the incomplete signatures list and pretend it is complete.
If you're at all committed to seeing the payoff of Harry's Tie, read forward. I would recommend putting it back on around the time you start investigating the FELD building. You'll see when you get there! Generally it's expected that for this, you've kept on the tie for the whole game so you don't have to worry about WHEN to have it on, but this is also an option if you do want to see the outcome.
I love and hate and love that we never get real answers on Evrart. Hard enough for the common man, but anything we could get is tainted even further by the fact we're playing as a cop.
This game is so very well designed. There are always options. It is why I recommend to never save scum in this game although I understood why you did it. There is another option with the signatures that none of the other commenters have mentioned. But you have to talk to the right person about it which you have not done yet.
I always took it as that if you forge the signatures, the construction can't start because somehow it'll be found out that the signatures are fakes. I'm not sure however, I could be wrong.
On the Isobel and Lillianne situation. My take at least. To be very blunt, Isobel is old. This comes with wisdom and experience. She knows people will try to take advantage of you. She is grateful for what she has and has seen how it could be worse. However, I think the harshness of her world has really shaped her worldview. She seems very willing to trust a person but not people. People have been worse to her than any person has. This has driven her, essentially, towards centrism. She is opposed to change because change and the people behind it have always made her life worse. She is comfortable with her status quo, even if it’s bad. She has no desire for change so she doesn’t look towards the future. Not so with Lillianne. While accepting the really of the status quo (she doesn’t really have a choice in this), she is not tied to it. Especially when it comes to her children. She wants a better future for them. But all change comes with risks. By signing the paper, she decided that risking a worse life is worth trying for a better one. She knows Claire is slimy and can’t be trusted. But he is also the only one even attempting to do anything. The Union is the only organization that has looked that direction her whole life. If they don’t make it better, nobody else will. Basically, Isobel “knows” things won’t get better while Lillianne hopes it can.
There are other ways to go around evrart. With the first task he assigns, he wants you to go inside. You don’t have to. With this task he wants signatures, if you talk to Kim about it he’ll give you his opinion and I suggest you go with it.
Passing the logic check about the contract gives you additional insight into the demerits of the plan, and it is required before you can forge a signature. There are only two options to get the gun, forge a signature, or get them to sign. You can forge the contract in two different ways, either do it yourself, or get the drunk trio to do it.
Think about why you feel the way you do about evrart and joyce. Is it what they do and what they say? Or is it how they do it and how they say it? What seems to move you the most on an emotional level.
as a lot of folks are saying in the comments, there IS a way to get other signatures.. and i think is the way that you'd enjoy better =) i'm got a legit smile and laugh when you backed off lmao i'm loving this series!! love hearing your opinions and analysis.
I know you have likely already recorded the next episode, but if not I implore you to at least explore the signature forgery option. You can changer your mind at the last moment, just like you did when trying to get the washerwoman's signature, and it might help you see things in a new light just seeing what the game has to say on the subject. Wonderful series, as always; I will be sad when it is over!
This might be a bit late since the next episode is out, but there's a third option, between refusing to get the signature and forcing the old woman to sign it. You might want to interact with the paper/envelope for the signature in your inventory, somewhere private......
I feel like I need to add a bit of clarity: You can literally forge the signatures yourself by interacting with the document. And forging the signatures will foil Evrart's plans since you'll convince him that you did what he wanted but the project won't start for real. Also, if you can't do it yourself, maybe there's someone else in the village who could help you get fake signatures that will crash the project legally later...
If you *do* decide to convince her to sign, Suggestion gives you a way to do it; pull on hear heartstrings regarding all of L's kids. You can go "wait, I don't wanna do it THAT way" and Suggestion explains that this is the ONLY thing which will work; you have to explain that without the youth centre these three kids won't have a future, and you have to say it knowing you're emotionally manipulating her. Which is messed up and such a cool use of a "social" skill. So often you roll to convince, and if you succeed, you convince. Here there is a WAY to convince someone, and it might suck.
Not sure if this counts as spoiler but I want to let you know the 3 possible ways you handle that, you either forge the signatures, convince the old lady or do nothing, its your choice, just wanted to help making the options clear.
Forging the signatures is, iirc, the 'good' option, as it's heavily implied that the forgeries will be identified as such, and that Evrart will not be able to use them to gentrify the fishing village, but he won't know that until after helping you find your gun
Personally I don't think getting the singatures for Everart is a good thing. The little village on the coast is an eyesore for him and his agenda, he just wants to get rid of it. Sure the place is very run down, but you yourself have said that out of whole Martinese, some of the most happy and hopeful people live there. Gentrifying it will likely make it worse for the people, not better.
Brady, if you forge the signatures, Evrart can't move forward with construction. He'll think youre working for him, while actually sabotaging his plans.
Forge the signatures brady. That way you can go forward with the everat story line. But (and this is spoiler free) in my opinions you are right, there is no "easy and right" decision in this. There might or might not be some caveats for the village people if you get them to sign the documents, at the same time, if the youth center wont be build I think (and thats just my opinion) that everything will stay the same as it is now, for the better or worse until eventually someone else rolls in and gentrifies this place. Also because I think it went a bit over your head, but independent from all his slimyness, mob-boss attitude and possible self-enrichment, Empathy wants to tell you very clearly that Everat, if for nothing else, honestly cares for the people of martinaise. But yeah it was also one of the hardest decisions for me to make. Love yout work and it brings great joy to me.
You can totally finish it without it and you can also get someone else's gun instead of yours to finish the game, getting "your" gun isn't that essencial, altough if you decide to skip the "getting your gun" quest I would recommend that you do a save and finish that quest as a bonus video after finishing the game
MILD SPOILERS INVOLVING EVRART AND HIS 'YOUTH CENTRE' (nothing that impacts Harry or any major characters, it's after the game finishes): The devs updated the game after release to include some hidden photos in the collage mode in the main menu. One of the photos includes an image of the construction of the youth centre. Whether you believe that what Evrart is choosing to do is morally correct or not, it IS canon that he actually follows through and builds the youth centre. (It looks like it's gonna be quite big too).
You are correct and this may be worth considering, but I think it should also be noted that many people take those additions with a grain of salt, since by the time they were added none of the original head writers or creative leads were still working at ZA/UM and that update was largely considered damage control for all of the scandal the investors were going through at the time.
@@stevenstulock1217 Ive also seen a careful examination of that picture, and it definitely doesnt show a completely FINISHED youth center (although it does look mostly finished). In fact, the argument was made that it didnt seem to show any evidence of ongoing work at the time it was taken. We can only speculate whether the money completely ran out, or if the work stoppage is temporary or permanent, but it was an interesting analysis.
@@stevenstulock1217 Totally, you can tell the writing in those short moments added in later were not written by the original writer(s). The prose is no where near as beautiful, and it's very 'matter of fact'. But the skill checks in game do indicate that Evrart Claire was being genuine is intention, and those were definitely written by the original creators.
There's a tweet from Argo Tuulik, one of the last (if not the last) of the original writers to be forced out at ZA/UM after the planned sequel was cancelled, making it clear he doesn't regard those photos and their accompanying text as canon. So whether it's canon depends largely on who you think determines canon: the current people squatting atop the rights to the Disco Elysium setting or the original writer(s) who have been fired by those people.
[Empathy: He means it.] Shoulda been the indication that the youth centre is being built with only the best of intentions. The fishing village has nothing of value left to it, besides the people. And the people will be the same people if their neighborhood gets cleaned up. I can't really blame you though; the game REALLY convinces you Evrart is the slimiest of the slimeballs and it colors your perception that he can never do anything good, ever, for the rest of the game.
Cindy is def-o an anarchist who would be repulsed by the youth center. She does not want to become someone like Elizabeth running favors for a fat cat.
The thing that evrart gets is reputation of cops doing legwork for the union in the middle of the strike while the hardie boys seen by public as the lynching culprits, the whole gymnastics of what he gets out of it ends there for me. Its pretty interesting how every material benefit the youth centre provides is ignored bc "ew evrart no likey" and nothing but suspicion. Brilliant writing.
You are told by Inland Empire that it seems ominous, by visual calculus that it is quite close to the existing buildings, and if you pass the check what will really happen, the people of the fishing village do not like the Union, Evrart seems to care about his people despite all his flaws, but those aren’t his people.
I personally think "No ethical consumption under capitalism" is a very shallow statement. Capitalism was arguably quite successful in improving the life of the majority of the society. the issue is very philosophical and requires a practical point of view. ideals will only muddy the water. Infact in this regard I would argue that it is also not ethical to run away from capitalism while not being able to replace it with something better. Not to mention that the union here is also a socialist organization and not a capitalist one. The lady on the boat is the representation of capitalism.
Arguably, but not really. The Union being a socialist organization doesn't change the fact that they operate under capitalism. The lady in the boat does in fact not represent capitalism. She represents wild pines, Liberalism and patriotism, but not capitalism. Capitalism doesn't need representation. Every one in martainese operates under capitalism, liberalism and socialism are just different ways to deal with it.
one could argue that technological advancement happens with or without capitalism, and that capitalism's monopolies, privations, barriers and conflict has actually slowed the spread of technological advances. it's certainly not one-way, as the decline in living standards in the US proves.
@@AlanRayable you could argue that, but you would have to prove it. Observationally, it seems pretty well-supported that however you want to define "technological advancement", some combination of consistent property rights, mostly free markets, accessible education and strong pro-social institutions are either necessary or highly desirable for intensive (innovative) growth, as opposed to extensive (copying what richer countries have already invented) growth. The last two are probably unrelated to economic systems (apparently there's some literature about social trust in post-soviet countries, but I haven't read much into it), but the first two are usually what people want to get rid of when they say they're opposed to capitalism.
Feh! Such a moralist. It's easy to sneer at idealism, to make calls for pragmatism, when you're not the one getting screwed over. As for that guff about society improving, I don't see how that's a rebuttal to the point being made. When people talk about unethical consumption, they're talking about the very real exploitation and suffering that goes into creating the goods we buy and services we use. Retreating into an abstract view of things does nothing to change that. Seems to be merely a way for you to soothe your own conscience.
