It sets the baseline for all cartridges. I have been reloading for 54+ years and have 20 reloading manuals. Never reload from memory, open the book and put it on the bench.
I am really surprised that anyone that is interested in firearms would not be conversant with the reason for the existence of SAAMI, after all, reloaders should be keeping an eye on cartridge length, and pressures, which are all listed in the SAAMI spec, but then when manufacturers do not make their products to SAAMI spec, (Colt 45 at .451",when it should be .454"), why would anyone take notice of it. In Europe we have CIP, which started in 1913 to standardise chamber /cartridge size, for obvious reasons, the concept is good, and works, providing all parties stick to the rules.
+Englishman French -- Or look at what Hornady does with their short 45 Colt brass - Yes, there are technical glitches, but SAAMI, ANSI, ISO, CIP working together is valuable on many fronts... I like your comment that all parties need to stick to the concensus that they go by. Best Regards, FC
FC45LC, another outstanding video. Thank you for this great information! Because I've seen your vids, I've become pretty solidly sold on Lyman 525 slugs for my brand new KSG (by KelTec). Again, thank you. :) I look forward to more great leasons and info.
Look at European ammo. Every single box is loaded to C.I.P. specs. I am certain that SAAMI and CIP talk to each other, but it has been my experience that a lot of European ammo is loaded to higher pressures/velocities than American ammo.
+351WINCHESTER -- Based on perceived pop and recoil, seems that way with some 9mm stuff in my experience. But the pressure signs are OK and cases reload fine (or not with the steel case stuff). Have you noticed that European stuff is not marked +P, perhaps it's all +P? That's fine with me...my guns like that Fiocchi stuff. Best to ya, FC
+FortuneCookie45LC The 9mm has always been loaded hot in Europe. It takes a lot of pressure to operate a p08 Luger. I would not be surprised if standard European 9mm is our +P load. Back in the 80's I bought some Fiocchi with green lacquer primer sealant. It was the hottest 9mm ammo I have shot to date. I wish I would have kept some for a rainy day.
Great video on SAMI specs. Good job sir. Like the 375 H & H brass that is crazy clean. I do not agree with the unloaded fire arm concept. The adage is, do you have fire extinguisher that is uncharged in your house that is not at the ready to use? I know, kids and safety. But the rare case of the bump in the night will not allow you to take a time out to load your protection when seconds count and the police are many minutes away. Regards
+pr4runner -- Always great to hear from pr4runner!! Yes, you have a great point - that's why those little quick open safes have utility. I remember when Jeff Cooper said "Yes, it's loaded. Of course, it's loaded - I treat it as if it is loaded because that's the way I keep it 100% of the time." Cooper's safety rules are also very good. But gun accidents involving the death of a child are terrible to happen and result in extremely bad PR. We can't go over everything in a video, and that's why these comment sections are important...Thanks for your important comment, FC
+Nick J -- Now the UN has had disarming nations on their agenda for many years, some sure seem to have bought into that - so who is leading whom? And who is a member of the club? Who is financing the thing? And who would take great displeasure on the stand taken by SAAMI on the UN floor? Yes, interesting indeed... FC
+Ed “Ed J and H sports” J -- Can't go wrong with 4895 - the original small arms surplus powder of the US Military. Other powders with different pressure curves can wreak havoc with the M1 gas timing... Best to ya, FC
Can i shoot sammi or cip 7.62x39 through an AK47? Does it matter if its imported to America and is adjusted for sammi or does it not matter. I see some Tula ammo is cip n some maybe sammi. Im not sure wat to use or buy. My AK-47 is an Arsenal SAM7SF-84
Hello my friend. I have a video unrelated question for you (as usual). I have finally made the jump from handgun to rifle reloading. I am loading .308 for a Remington 700 SPS Tactical. Today I took my first loads out. All were loaded according to the 2015 Speer manual. All loads were constructed using 3 different powders, 2 different head stamps, and 168 gr Sierra Matchkings. Every one shot 3-4 inches to the right at 100 yards. Factory ammo shot dead center, even mixing rounds every other. Any clues?
+Hans ‘Hanzy4200’ S. look at high speed video`s from midway gun stories ,you wil see that a rifle barrel swings and vibrates. and ,because the differant speeds and pressure the moment that the bullet leaves the barrel where the barrel swings and points , it will shoot that direction ,thats the reason free swinging bull barrels shoots the most ammo the same and best, and handloading can be better then factory ammo ,benchrest is the ultimate proof,all shooters there are handloaders. maybe fc 45 lc has more too say.
+Hans “Hanzy4200” S. -- Just to segue on what peteralexben says to ya -- if POI is a little different with different bullet weights and loads, we really don't worry about that because that's what the scope adjustment turrets are for...besides, what is the wind doing on this particular day (some of that 3-4 inches could be from wind drift)? What is important is the grouping of the bullets from the specific loads, small groups are still what we want, smaller the better - then, dial in the appropriate number of clicks to the left add 1.5" of elevation and presto - you are zeroed out to 250. We always zero to the load we finally wind up using. Those bullets have been the accuracy standard in years bygone - still excellent, but today's benchrest shooters have bullet choices that are even more matched. Good shootin' to ya, FC
I will have to keep experimenting. I was shooting my reloaded 168 gr SMK bullets alongside Federal Gold Medal Match, also shooting 168 gr SMK's. Then for a oddball, I threw in some Federal M80 7.62 ball. The Gold Medal's and the ball were dead on, and every reload, no matter the recipe, were to the right. Very odd. Thanks for the input.
+Hans “Hanzy4200” S. -- Thanks, Hans for the comments... If you like a certain load for whatever reason, it has the power and accuracy you want or need, I'd say you are good to go...Just load up several hundred rounds and then practice with your rifle. This champion High Power shooter, Jim O'Connell, watched me laboring to get sub 1 MOA ammo for shooting the matches and he said to me..."I always tell the newer High Power shooters to best buy the cheapest factory ammo they can get, and then work on their actual shooting. The precision ammo loading comes later when your skills can use that." He was right. When a rifle shooter can hold the black in all shooting positions, then the sub MOA ammo becomes relevant. Have a great day, Hans. FC
FortuneCookie45LC Things worked out well. I went out again today, and instead of trying to measure my reloads up against factory match ammo, I just dialed in my reloads. I was averaging about "1-"2 groups with the best being about ".75. Not a bad place to start. I believe your advice is very wise. My shooting capability is nowhere near what this rifle is capable of achieving. Oh, and I got to fire a suppressed handgun for the first time. And then a rifle! Amazing!
+gman77gas -- Very good question - always follow the money - for example - the UN gets most of its funding from the USA. Then we get the Arts Trade Treaty out of the UN - so who is behind that horrible effort to limit worldwide arms trade. SAAMI is supported by money from all the SAAMI members. No government funding. So yes, the arms and ammo makers have concensus on all they do in SAAMI and a voice in national and international politics as well... Best to ya, Gary - FC
SAAMI is only a US thing, i don`t really care about it. The rest of the world use the C.I.P. standards, that is what i use. SAAMI and C.I.P. specifications are very similar but not exactly the same in most cases.
+deutz450 -- SAAMI is not only a US thing - if it were, SAMMI would not operate as a NGO at the UN. SAAMI works with ANSI and ISO (International Standards) to promote safety, interchangeability, reliability and quality internationally. If you shoot 5.56mm NATO, or 30/06 or 45 ACP anywhere in the world, or if US shooters shoot 9mm or 8mm JS Mauser, or 7.62x39 using any guns so chambered or ammo so manufactured including ComBloc 5.56 or 30 carbine, 8mm, or 308 etc, you can thank SAAMI and ISO. CIP or psi makes no difference - they have concensus on all of that - agreement by concensus for the good of military and civilian use of guns and ammo... It is significant to what we do as shooters and reloaders whether anyone cares about it or not. And if we value our shooting rights as well as safety, perhaps caring is a good idea... Best Regards to you and ISO, FC
+FortuneCookie45LC I like your vids and you know much more about reloading than myself, but in this case maybe you should look outside the rim of the usa. I can give you a few examples with differences between SAAMI and C.I.P. I think you know the discussion about 223 Rem and 5.56x45, SAAMI take a difference between this calibers, CIP does not, both are the same at CIP specs, same thing with 308 Win and 7.62x51. Pressure 9x19: SAAMI 35000 psi piezo, CIP 34408 psi piezo 357 Mag: SAAMI 35000 psi, CIP 44962 psi 454 Casull: SAAMI 65000 psi, CIP 56565 psi In Germany and a lot of european countrys it is not legal to buy ammo without CIP stamps on the ammo box, you can not find anything about SAAMI on it. Even US brand ammo has to be approved by CIP to make it legal for sale in germany/europe. Greetings from germany PS: Hopefully we win the fight about the EU gun ban, (and the new semi auto rifle/shotgun with detachable magazines ban for hunters in germany) otherwise this discussion will be obsolete soon :(
+deutz450 the french ,italian ,and the Uk are behind the ban proposal , if all legal gun owners starts to ban products from these country`s.that would make a point.because the ban will not stop criminals and terrorists. and also the USA shooters and the rest of the world, boycot product`s from anti legal gun country`s .
+deutz450 -- I appreciate your comments. It appears that CIP and SAAMI set the same standards while not standardizing their modes of testing, yielding slightly different results. We all owe our standards organizations a vote of thanks. Both CIP and SAAMI measure pressures using different modes of testing. I've always considered that they are measuring the same pressures, but because the tests are conducted in different but similar methods, and since we don't have any range testing for pressure as done by CIP or SAAMI, we have to rely upon reloading data published by ammo and powder companies that have done the testing. And you and I as well as all reloaders use the same means to assess our pressures - primer signs, expansion of the head of the case above the web, extraction difficulty. You should go by CIP because your loading data is published according to that organization. And we here in the states go with SAAMI, but it is still very relevant that CIP and SAAMI do work the standards together so that our guns and ammo are safe on either side of the pond. You can shoot our ammo, and we can shoot yours. The differences in the published pressures from CIP and SAAMI are because of the methods used in testing, and any conversion calculations are not perfectly transferred from one caliber to another. Best to ya, FC
