The Source of The River Thames is in the Wrong Place 

2:50 in and I love the fact that Paul opens a gate, walks through, and carefully closes the gate when the video clearly shows that there is no fencing attached to the gatepost! :)

I could certainly always see the logic for Seven Springs being regarded as the source, especially as it has the small advantage of actually being properly wet all the time. Interesting though to hear of the alternative sources round Thames Head and whether the digging of the canal altered historic water flows, nice research! If the source were changed and the Churn became the Thames, we'd then need to find another name for the Thames west of Cricklade!

Am I the only Google earth fanatic? I followed the River Thames from London all the way up to Thames Head. I enjoy doing things like this. I love that you did this little video and showed these places on vide (Google only has a few photos). Thank you! All the canals around the UK are also facinating! I had no idea that these were created until a few years ago. So interesting to followow and see what is there.

Ever since I was kid (when dinosaurs roamed the Earth, according to my sons) I understood that Seven Springs was the source of the Thames. Names for rivers could have been local in origin, so the people around the Churn may not have known that it was the Thames further downstream. I think that you just have to go for the furthest source of the water which ultimately becomes the Thames. By the way, did the gate at 2:53 have some invisible fencing either side?

I grew up less than a mile from Severn Springs, everyone around us referred to it as the source of the Thames, I recall a painted wooden plaque that stated this until it fell apart some time in the 1960s. I was surprised to discovered later that another place laid claim to this despite being closer to Lechlade

Your videos are always well-researched Paul, but this one really shows how far you go to check your sources (sorry) (seriously though - some great investigating work here, v interesting!)

As a kid when going on holiday to south Wales, we used to stop off at the Seven springs for a break. this was before the M4 was built. great to see that the spring has not changed much in the last 50 years. Still looked as I remembered it. lost so many stopping places to and from Wales when they opened the M4, OK it was much much quicker but lost all the sense of adventure. We would go to bed in our clothes (5 years old) as we would set off about 6am and not get there to late afternoon. I must at some point do the drive down the A40, A48 it's now in the bucket list. Thanks for being back the memories.

At the risk of seeming disrespectful of the talents and efforts of the team that put this beautiful programme together, I can’t help mentioning the (by now rather obscure) fact that the Goons once dedicated a programme to identifying the source of the Thames, which they traced to a dripping trap somewhere. Sadly, I’ve forgotten where the dripping tap was supposed to have been located. They turned it off of course, with predictable results. Fortunately, the river seems to have recovered since then.

That. Was. BRILLIANT! I really enjoyed that video Paul. I love stuff like this. I do know, from The book on the Thames and Severn Canal, that they almost always had to close the summit level in the Summer due to a lack of water at the head spring of the Thames. The fact that the Titanic is more waterproof than the Oolite the canal was built through and the records show that there were constant problems with leakage and sudden loss. I agree with you that the Severn Springs are a better candidate for the source. The Canal was a good idea, pity it was so badly surveyed and constructed on the cheap, dry in summer and frozen in winter, not ideal. Thank you so much for doing this video, really appreciated.

Fascinating, I would love to see a series that traces a river or rivers, from source to sea, by foot, hovercraft, boat, microlight etc. as the terrain and access permit!

The tower isn''t a foley - it is one of quite a few round houses on this canal. They were lengthsmen's houses

The Shannon has as its official source a deep hole in a hillside in Co Cavan called the Shannon Pot. This pool or pot is very deep and in Irish mythology it is believed to be the spot where the grand daughter of the sea Sionnan came to be tempted in a Garden of Eden thence the name. However the area is famous for its Karst Geology and cave systems. It is now believed that the catchment goes much wider and crosses into Co Fermanagh only coming to the surface at the Shannon Pot. At 240 miles it's the longest river in these islands.

This series is easily TV worthy. I've said before but your production values are exceptional. The story telling, the editing, presentation talent, even the music. Just brilliant.

The removal of gravel from the Ashton Keynes area I think also makes the area by the Thames Head drier than it used to be. I remember water always running through the fields by Kemble which rarely happens now.

I am so pleased that someone has created a video about an internal debate I have had for years. In fact, there is a tributary to The Churn which starts in a nearby college, which would make The Thames even longer than Severn Springs being the source.

Really nice video and great research. A lot of these things are quite arbitrary: properly, the Seine through Paris ought to be the Yonne as the flow where the two rivers meets is greater from the Yonne - the research that proved it went down like a lead balloon…

I have done similar research in regard to a waterfall in a cave in the state of Kentucky in America. No one knew where the water from the waterfall went after it fell. Such fun and interesting investigative work! Great video. CHEERS!

As a former resident of Cheltenham, I too consider Seven Springs to be the "true" source of the Thames. Plus the springs tend to be more active than that field near Cirencester :)

Fascinating stuff! You may find the Ohio River interesting too: Officially it starts at the confluence of two rivers in Pittsburgh (weird enough in itself) and at the point where it "joins" the Mississippi River, the Ohio has a larger volume. So really, the Ohio should be said to start in northern Pennsylvania, flow into New York State, back into Pennsylvania, be joined by the Mississippi and flow into the Gulf of Mexico. But it's another case of naming conventions predating accurate measurements.

I drive past Seven Springs a few times a week, never knew the history of the name, very interesting, I'll stop there next time.

Just make a sign stating: 'Source of the River Thames' and wallop it in place with a fourteen pounder. Job done 🙌👍

Here in the US, I've always wondered why the Mississippi river was said to start in northern Minnesota instead of Montana. If you follow the river to its furthest reach, the Missouri river course would make the Mississippi substantially longer. Lake Itaska is said to be the source of the Mississippi but there are small streams that feed into it. Seems to me that the whole source idea is a social construct.

I guess like you have said that a river's source can change over the years and also season to season and even depending on weather conditions.

I lived in Cotswolds for about 4 years. Amazing place. Thanks for the video and the memories

@2:57 ... glad to see you acted responsibly and shut the gate behind you. Wouldn't want to let the livestock out the field. :-)

Fascinating and educational video. In future videos, please dwell on your positioning maps a little longer to make it easier for those of us outside the UK to get oriented as to where you are exactly. Beautiful scenery. Thank you.

Based on nothing but knowing history is often founded on rumour and hearsay, I'd bet a pound (Sterling) to a pinch of pooh, you are right Paul. It just has that indefinable ring of the likely truth. Well done, research as always, spot on.

I have often wondered the same thing for decades. Since 1978 in fact when I and a friend walked to the source of the Thames near Cirencester and afterwards examined an OS map to find otherwise. I think the river Coln has a shot at it as well - it's roughly the same length from the Coln-Thames confluence to the sources of the Coln and the Churn but the Coln is very tightly meandering so quite difficult to measure.

I have watched the Thames become drier over the last 60 years. It was pretty dry but was a trickle as it crossed the A 429 and we walked up the dry valley to the original stone at the source.

An interesting puzzle to solve would be to find out why the source was changed by decree by John Leyland in 1542. The roman apparently used the longer source. i assume it was for political or economic outcomes. it might be interesting to see who owned the surrounding lands in those days. who got taxes for "thames trade etc.

That was very interesting. I never managed to get to the supposed source of the Thames when I lived in Gloucestershire but I can tell you about the building you saw near Sapperton tunnel and it was one of 5 roundhouses for canal lengths men to live in. Not very convenient but one further on nearer the Thames has been extended and incorporated into a house. Apologies if someone else has said this already. One at Chalford, Coates, Cerney Wick, Marston Mersey and at Leclade.

Paul and Rebecca - you have certainly turned the tide in favour of the Churn. I was, however, disappointed that I did not see the fair Rebecca. Also - around three minutes in you went through a gate - where there was no wall or fence on either side. Nit-picking apart, a lovely and picturesque piece of research.

My old neck of the woods, I grew up believing that Severn Springs was the start of the Thames. I was also aware that rivers were made up of a number of contributories, so I always took it with a pinch of salt. I would also say, if anyone is going to go to Severn Springs, the pub there isn't the best, the Green Dragon at Cockleford, which is only a couple of miles away is far superior.

Fascinating - having spent quite a lot of time around the area you visited in this video it was certainly interesting to see it in another way, rather than just place names that you drive through

Very interesting video Paul. I've yet to go to the source or not the source of the Thames myself.

Very much enjoyed this one. I spent my teens in that neck'o'the woods with the Thames and its source often getting dragged into school geography lesson. I remember being mostly bored by the whole thing at the time, not helped by my dad (teacher at St. Sampson's in Cricklade) going on about it after every school day out :) The only thing about the Thames that I really remember is @ Lechlade where you could muck about, eat food, drink coke (or the odd blagged beer) with mates and girlfriends. Found the video much more interesting than those geography lessons - and I never knew about the Roman stone on the Churn. If only we'd had YT in the 80s.....

It's all very confusing, it's much easier to find the other end of the River Thames.

I love to see ancient culverts, canals, wells and what-not. Especially ones that still work!

A great video Paul. One of the things I plan to do before I depart this earth is to walk the Thames from its source so will visit Thames Head but will start at the source of the River Churn now

Interesting video. Enjoyed it. Loved the weather. Thank you.

This is very interesting as I just happened to follow the Thames to it's 'source' on Google Earth a few weeks back. Gets a bit tricky near the 'source'.

As you said, Seven Springs as the source of the river Churn never dries up. Whereas the current official source of the Thames (map ref ST 980 995) at 365ft ASL, does. Also there is a thought that a spring in the grounds of the National Star College at Ullenwood (map ref SO 941 165) at 716ft ASL, could in theory make the Thames even longer still. Thanks for your interesting and thought provoking video's.

2:54 invisible fence is legit

And again: very intersting! Really glad I discovered your channel.

Great story, info and filming. Cheers from Bali.

Great video as always. Could the Severn be extended by looking to see if it has a longer tributary?

When I was young and lived nearby(ish) in Oxfordshire, my parents always took friends and family to the Seven Springs (even make the point of counting them all) and say this was the soucre of the Thames - as per the Latin inscription. My early memory says that the road went along what is now the lay-bye behind the springs and you just looked out across the fields. Somewhat disappointing to find it isnt....or is it?

Most summers the Thames is dry at Ashton Keynes, which is a little over 3.5 miles from joining the Churn at Cricklade.

I grew up in Kemble just around the corner and spent years playing in the woods and in the river. We used to map the movements of the source across the year, as we knew when it was spring rains in early March and flowing from the "Source Stone", we could get out the thick wetsuits and swim down to South Cerney really quickly with the fast-flowing flooded river.

Perfect. Thank you so much for all your hard work. We really enjoy our Sunday afternoon!!

The 'folly' at 1:00 is an old lock keepers house. On the T&S they built several like that and there is one by the old A5 at Gailey on the Staffs and Worcs canal.

A lovely walk by the river but I'm guessing it like there been a lot of 'pin the tail on the donkey' when the source was discovered but still a great video Paul.

Brilliantly shot and edited video. I came here because I wondered why the Thames' source is this and not that... Well, which is what and how it is named is more often based on "traditions" rather than on measurable facts. Rivers are a good example for that, maybe the most vivid. The farthest source of the Mississippi first feeds the Missouri...

It amused me when you opened and walked through the gate

What a journey of discovery to know the river thames is in fact englands longest river and the humble but beautiful origins of it's source. I can see a lot of research and foot slogging has gone into this research and for that l am thankful.Also the surrounding locations were stunning.

Wow , look at those chemtrails at 03:52 sickening!

Paul, Rebecca, An excellent video. I did not know that about the Thames. Have a great week. Take care.

I'm disappointed that you didn't recommend a quick bite at Suzie Burger Van at the layby at Seven Springs.

My neck of the woods. Nice to see you do this video.

Love the walking through the pointless gate!

Really interesting research, plus the bonuses of a fascinating gate and some superb contrails!

Paul's inability to walk around a closed gate with no fence always makes me chuckle. It doesn't happen in every video, but when it does its gold.

Didn't you have a drink from the source? I would have! The water looks delicious and I'm sure it was nice and cold. I've been to the source of the Seine in Burgundy several times and always have a drink and fill up a bottle to bring back to wherever I happen to be living at the time. It's also possible to straddle the Seine a few meters from the source. I'm contemplating a trip to the "official" source of the Thames, but this video is more enticing...

Very interesting and I think Thames water authority should erect a stone at the “new” source And the various authorities publications et cetera should acknowledge the fact

There is a similar thing on the River Wye where the source of the River Ithon, its longest tributary, is further from the mouth than the source of the Wye up on Plynlimon, or is it? Over to you two! Many thanks, another great video.

You’re right. They should change it. Surely the tributary should be the smaller river, unless there is a geological reason for selecting one river over another?

The Englishman who went up a canal and came down a river. Good stuff, thank you.

Really enjoyed this one, and the amount of research and effort you put into your productions. I remember, in the early 1960's, visiting the 'source of the Thames' stone you showed and it certainly had a trickle of water then. By the way, I loved the way you went through the isolated gate, rather than round it. Very British and very much appreciated.

That is odd. Nice video. Very helpful! Thanks!

Nice little video as usual. Always been fascinated by the Thames and Severn Canal. A successful restoration is being carried out on much of it. The little 'folly' near the beginning of the film is a lengthsmans cottage that housed a maintenance worker, bit like a caretaker I think for that section of the canal. I believe one of five unique roundhouses that can be found on this canal. A complete and still inhabited example can be found near Stroud at Chalford.

Brilliant videos, very well presented and interesting

What a brilliant video, mate, thanks a ton.

love the choice of music. really suits the video

top left of your map shows "Birdlip" hill. There's a great viewpoint there where you are supposed to be able to see 7 counties of England on a clear day. I've been there many times but it was never clear enough! hehe. great video today as usual.

To what end? How about correcting a lie due to a stupid mistake from 1542.

I'm surprised that nobody's mentioned Mark Wallington's comic novel Boogie Up The River, in which our hero and his horrible dog journey up the river on a quest to find the true source of the Thames. It was adapted as a serial for Radio 4 starring Timothy Spall and was repeated very recently on Radio 4 Extra.

Dude…..did you go through a gate with no fence??? Are you insane???

I'm definitely in the Seven Springs camp - not only is it 5 minutes from my house but in my mind a 'source'' feeds the river. Seven Springs doesn't stop flowing whereas Thames Head at Kemble does. I posted a couple of videos myself on this but yours is way better!

Great upload. Interesting to watch. Excellent narration. Tnx4sharing.

Thanks Paul. I always thought Seven Springs was the source but I guess not. Very interesting video 👍

Just loving the shot you going through the gate with no fence beside it! What the humourist you are!

Last time I went to Thames Head the Neptune statue was still there. The ‘folly’ is one of several Roundhouses along the Thames & Severn. [A complete one is at Chalford]. Back in the early 1960s my parents approached the Bathurst Estate about this one at Coates in the hope of renting it as their home. An unfavourable response, sadly, since when the Estate has allowed the building to become derelict.

There is another spring, also considered the source of the Thames, which is located 1.3km South of the Origin, this spring seems to be constantly 'wet' providing much of the water that feeds into the Thames near Kemble.

Apparently the Latin on the plaque reads: Here, O Father Thames, is your sevenfold Spring

Yet another great video the scope this channel covers and the depth of knowledge and presented enthusiastically just great

Well done thanks paul cheers bob.🦘🐨🍺🤠😎😇

As Cheltonian . We were always taught at school that Severn springs was thee source of the Thames. Even went on a school trip to Severn springs.

Very interesting indeed. Tradition over current definition...

This has to be the most British thing I have seen in a while. “We know what we are telling people is wrong but we can’t fix it because some guy in the 1500s was wrong and we like tradition more than truth.”

Very interesting! However, I must point out that exactly 1km downwards from Seven Springs, the river Churn meets another Tributary that is in fact 800m longer then the one from Seven Springs! Meaning the suposed Thames Head is in a small pond beside `Oxford Cottages` (2km West of Seven Springs along the A436) Exact coordinates: 51.84685N 2.07808W. In June I cycled from there to Teddington Obelisk in 4 days :)

That was very interesting Paul. It is the kind of thing that also intrigues me.

Nice touch there at 0:30 with the hall/echo

Interesting stuff, and I’m going to delve even further in history and throw a curve ball at you. The naming of rivers beyond a junction of tributaries is somewhat random. I believe the source of the Thames, as far as prehistoric Britons were concerned, was the River Kennet. It’s path is predominantly east-west in line with the mouth of the Thames. Rivers were of great significance to the Neolithic people and were linked to many of their ceremonial monuments including the Avebury complex, site of Silbury hill and the source of the Kennet.

I really like this, very informative 👍🏿

I love how Paul opened and went through the gate when there was no fence beside it

cool interesting video again paul and rebecca, well done and thank you again guys 😊

Thanks for the video! Very interesting!

where was rebecca???

What would be the point? The point is when our knowledge improves or is shown to be incorrect we change our knowledge. I really enjoyed that. Cheers.

I believe the record for the Thames Head source being dry was in 2011, when you would have had to walk about six miles "downstream" to find any water.