Somebody on Twitch pointed me to this. Okay, so that's my mod. I'm touched that someone would go through the effort to make a video covering this topic. You actually have more info here than even I was aware of, but yeah, I had my own suspicions about what exactly went down behind the scenes. The competition directions, as you might imagine, weren't thoroughly clear on just what sort of music would have worked. I recall they mentioned battles, but didn't say how long those battles were likely to last. Hindsight tells me I could have approached things differently if I'd happened to have seen the original Star Control in action. But certainly, my tune isn't designed in a way that makes it useful to listen to for ~5 to ~30 seconds repeatedly, as battles generally transpire in the game. My tune was more in line with the rest of the game's soundtrack in that regard: meant for at least a solid minute of play, if not multiple minutes. The competition text had provided the name of a preexisting mod as an example of what might work in the game's context, and I would say everything that was submitted fit that loose direction well, including my tune. If I could have done it over, I would have taken advantage the full allotted filesize (70Kb) and essentially eliminated any introductory component. I did actually suspect that something might have occurred with their tracker player. I had a bad habit of optimizing my mods so that as little data (non-zeros) was used as possible, and this meant in particular removing the instrument numbers from notes wherever they were redundant. You can see this to be the case in the ProTracker footage. Experimentation had shown that the mods compress a little better afterward. But many players didn't know how to handle this admittedly abnormal practice, so I confess I wondered if I'd shot myself in the foot a bit there. The last part of your video covers a sort of bucket list item for me. One of my theories was that they were intending to use my tune during the final sequence of battles against the multiple waves of enemies, except in this case they would allow the music to continue uninterrupted-really the only way the tune works-until the end of the final encounter, in order to emphasize the sense of it being one big battle. I can understand running into technical barriers with such an idea, but when I was playing the finished product back in the early 90s and nearing the end, still having not discovered where they'd put the tune, this is what made the most sense. So I'd planned one day to make that happen as a visual experiment. Now, thanks to this video, I already know more or less how it would have turned out. (Although the PC game plays the music in mono, of course.) It's kind of amazing to imagine that Paul Reiche III remembers the particulars about why the tune was left out. That was quite a while back. It's a shame the internet was still early days back then. Not hard to imagine that nowadays, rather than calling upon someone else to develop an emergency replacement, they might have gotten in touch and sought a reiteration of the tune to better fit their specifications. Footnotes: 1. 7:35 Chibi-tech has the right idea about tweaks to the BPM potentially leading to reduced performance. But she's wrong about that command in particular: F7D assigns the BPM to its default of 125. I believe I specified the BPM to default as a just-in-case measure against some remnant, blip or unpredictable factor (related to the SC2 team's mod player) inadvertently causing the tune to play at a bad speed and sound wrong. 2. 5:08 In ProTracker at least, there wasn't actually a sample slot set aside specifically for use in storing text files. That's just an idea I had when I grew frustrated with just how little context could be provided by 31 lines of 21 characters-the text intended as names of individual instruments.
Marc!! I'm so glad you found my video, I'd been trying to contact you for years but just couldn't find any recent contact info. Please email me at trixter@oldskool.org if you'd like to reconnect. I've always been a fan of just how much you compressed your data by hand; techmaru in particular is really fun to watch as it plays. Do you recall if you invented sampletext? I hadn't seen it used before your mods, so I'm going to say "yes" unless someone corrects me.
@asterra2 Paul Reiche remembering what happened with your music is, I feel, a clear sign for it leaving a good impression, not to say quite an impact. It's a good tune, but I can see why they decided against using it, for the exact same reasons you mentioned. Either way, it's incredible you found your way to this already obscure thing and gave an answer or your side of the story to it. I love the game to bits, still regularly hear the soundtrack and yours would've been a wonderful addition to the playlist or, rather, it is a wonderful addition to the playlist, now that it has been recovered ;)
Once I heard your track I instantly knew why it wasn't in the game and that it would be a perfect fit for a final battle (or maybe key battles). Shame it wasn't included, but I still loved it separately, thanks for the great music!
In a way not being included turned out amazing because it let us have this brand new old experience of the game so many years later. It's like finding deleted footage from Star Wars.
Something Paul and Fred didn't mention: The original SC2 tracker code halves the music volume whenever a sound effect is played. This has a choppy effect on any music with a continuous melody. The video shows a better mixing than SC2 was capable of, but the reality would have been worse.
For real? It's a very beloved tune for me. Captures part of the very spirit of high sci-fi as far as I'm concerned. Maybe more. It was incredibly fitting for quasi-space in the game, anyway. That said - I rather like the notion of such a humble origin for it. It's somewhat... appropriate.
Dude, I LOVED the Quasispace theme!! Thank you so much for your contribution of a spooky, sombre ear-worm that lives in my head to this day, and is always my first go to for subtly nerve-wracking exploration music! Well done, and a shame you didn't earn more from it!
Yes, I agree completely. Most SCII battles are slower paced so this fast paced tune would feel overpowering, but the Sa Matra battle is more intense and this would go well
Watching your experiment at the end playing back the missing music over the combat, I kind of agree with Paul's ultimate assessment. That is definitely a REALLY good battle tune, but it's the kind of tune you want to listen to when the sound effects are basic and repetitive to help spice things up, which would work well in a lot of games, but SC2's battle sounds are very distinctive for all the different races and many have a lot of personality to them so a simpler tune helps to not overpower those sounds. Definitely would've been a hard decision to make that change too.
Yeah, I have to agree. It does 'overpower' the gameplay a bit. Going with the more stripped back and basic "Battle!" track was probably the right call. That said, I think it absolutely could have worked as a final boss theme for the Sa-Matra , if they'd thought of it.
I didn't mention this in the video, but I think I agree because the SC2 sound engine was mono only. It's easier to separate music and sound effects if the music is in stereo, which it is in the video experiment. But if everything was in mono, I think I agree with Paul's decision that it would have overpowered the sound effects.
Yep, I agree as well. I think the tune would've been _great_ in a cinematic or something, sort of like the intro cinematic with that powerful and memorable theme. If only it would've made it!
@@ActionAlligator It is indeed better in every way and I also see the exact problem they had. You can hear ALL of the combat sounds clearly except the Pkunk speech/insults. They get buried. I also agree that it would have been an amazing final fight change, though - combat, combat - Su-Matra - new amped up tune!
I wonder how many initial submissions were made for the game, and if Marc only had the single submission? I wish I had saved and framed the cheque I received from Paul Reiche III, but I was a poor high school student at the time, and as I recall, the money went towards purchase of a hard drive.
@@poofygoof nice! Congrats for that! Not my favourite track, but no tracks were bad for SC2. I think only CastleVania:Symphony of the Night beats Star Control 2 in overall video game soundtracks of all time.
I really loved this game! Another amazing thing (at least for me) about the sound of SC2 it's that if you have no sound card the digitalized music and sounds would play on the pc speaker with an amazing sound quality! Much, MUCH different from the usual awful regular PC speaker sounds. That really blew my mind back then!
It is straight out unbelievable how much history lies in these old games. As someone who enjoys "modern" story-driven games on a regular, its astounding to see how much of their DNA resides in these pioneer days. Also playing the SC2 HD remaster on a modern PC is an interresting, albeit recommendable experience.
You know, the unused track would have been PERFECT as a boss theme for the Sa-Matra fight. But sadly, I don't think the concept of the "epic final boss theme" had really become a thing yet in 1992. Hmm... since the composer was paid for the track and credited in-game, could UQM make use of it?
Truthfully, I don't agree. A well-designed video game soundtrack isn't just random flavor, but also helps to actually communicate information to the player, and despite being pretty crude in this regard, UQM is no different. Take the music that plays while you're talking to the Ur-Quan, for instance; yes, it's composed well, but it only has the impact that it does because it's associated with the Ur-Quan. You hear it multiple times while you're playing the game and in multiple contexts, but always in reference to the Ur-Quan. By comparison, let's suppose MARUCMBT was used for the Sa-Matra battle. What would it actually communicate to the player? Well, nothing. It's never been heard before, and because it (along with most of the music) was composed independently of anything else, it doesn't have the benefit of being able to incorporate musical elements from other tracks that should be related (namely, the combat track that the game ended up using). If anything, using completely different music for the final battle than for the rest of the battles in the game would almost be like communicating that the player is playing an entirely different game, so it'd sound incredibly jarring in-context. If you wanted to add a unique sound to the Sa-Matra fight, a much better method would be to take a remix of the standard battle track, or at least something that incorporates some of the musical ideas used in the standard battle track. It wouldn't be the most complex music scoring idea, but it'd actually communicate simultaneously a connection to previous battles and a difference (making the Sa-Matra fight feel not like an entirely different game, but like a different _type_ of the same battles you've encountered all thruout the game). Incidentally, I'm pretty sure the Precursors remixes include one that could easily be used in this way if you wanted to, but it's been many years since I checked.
So fuckin happy people still talk about this game in 2021. I had no clue this game had unused music, I swear SCII has an unlimited reservoir of neat stuff that continues to surprise and amaze me despite having known the game for 12 years.
@@exidy-yt Pal I've been right with ya following the progress. I can't wait for that shit, I hope we get to explore more of the stuff that were only MENTIONED in UQM
Its mind boggling that this topic even exists. I played Star Control 1 - 3 in my early teens back in the 90's and I think SC2 might have laid some of the framework for my later love of all electronic music. To see someone deep dive on the topic so much later is just a pure joy to see. Thanks everyone for putting so much work and talent into great music, and an even better game.
@@TheOldskoolPC you can see the rigging (going up to the mast which had a crow's nest) at 9:14. The cubicle walls were the ship hull and there were mounted cannons, of course. 😀
Outstanding research and video! Gotta love the tune also. Kinda reminds me of Chris Huelsbeck's style, now that I think about it. (Even the samples sound sort of similar - hmm...) I think they could've found a place for it elsewhere in the game, even if it didn't work for them as battle music, but then hindsight is 20/20 etc. Either way, now that The Ur-Quan Masters exists, the assets are easily replaceable so you can actually try it in the game!
Incorrect title for me, it's actually the _only_ Star Control 2 music I've heard! I stumbled across it back when I was a teenager because I was into demoscene music for some reason, I think it was on a music demo for the SNES called Modular Escape that just had a bunch of demoscene mods, and I had never played Star Control 2 so I wasn't sure why this wasn't showing up when I searched for the Star Control 2 soundtrack, and it just sort of remained unresolved in the back of my mind until now - who's this composer and what else have they composed? Why does nobody else talk about how cool this song is, if this Star Control 2 is a really popular game? Is it not actually in the game (the sampletext only alluded to the fact that it was intended for SC2, and going to be sent in)? So that's interesting, and good job for making this video, even if I'm probably one of the only viewers to have gotten information from it the other way around.
I can see why you were compelled to make this video. I'm really glad you got to the bottom of it, as it's just the kind of thing that might never have been solved! Nice work. I agree with others about the suitability of the track. Paradoxically it's both perfect and too good at the same time!
This is incredibly… _incredibly…_ exciting to me! I've been a _Star Control II_ fan since I played the interactive demo that came on my Selectware _Classic Collection Adventure/Fantasy_ CD-ROM. Just traveling around the Sol system (and swapping the Earth Cruiser with the Ilwrath Avenger, hee hee~) was enough to get me excited, but alas… I never looked into getting the full version. Not even after the 3DO was reviewed in an issue of EGM. Then, I learned about _The Ur-Quan Masters_ and… the rest was history. Thank you so much for looking into this mystery (which I wasn't even _aware_ of)! Now, can you solve the mystery of what the heck that thing behind Captain Zelnick is, on the cover? (;
Another World/Out of this World is another earlier example of a PC/DOS game using entirely sample-based audio with some music at the beginning and ending. Having the sound on sadly really slows the game down on a 286, with it off the game runs perfectly fine on one.
Indeed, in my research, Another World was the first PC/DOS game to have "mod" music (it didn't use mods, but the techniques are the same), and The Brainies was the second. One month later, Star Control II was the third.
2 things, first, watching the melee with that music brought back some fond memories, but now with the benefit of hearing both, I'm glad he went with a more subdued track for melee engagements... it sounds a little too busy and happy in this format. And second, if you're and old school MOD fan, have you ever heard the MOD track "Celestial Fantasia" ??? I think it may be the penultimate piece of MOD music ever composed.
Gosh yes. BeaT only made a few S3Ms, but they were incredible. I was road tripping with vert and necros and I asked them who THEY looked up to (as I looked up to them), and they universally said BeaT. I wish BeaT had made more tracked songs.
Oh, what a nice video. Top-notch research! :) You made me want to play this game again too, haha. Time to go dig up my original copy. By the way I quite agree with what Paul said. This tune, while wonderful, is a bit overpowering. I think they made the right choice.
I think the song is amazing and was way ahead of its time - its creator is truly a musical genius. Listening to it without soundeffects that are part of a game such as Star Control 2's SFX, it strikes me how much more fitting the 'maru combat1' tune would have been in a game that was more driven by music than any part of SC2 game mechanics were, like a racing/side-scrolling shooter/fighting game. Imagine it being played in a sci-fi based racing game with or without shooter elements, like F-Zero or 4 years later released WipeOut (comparable to & surpassing song 'Big Blue' - F-Zero released in 1990). It would've also worked extremly well in a fast paced first person space shooter. However, I dunno if there were any such games released for PC or any video game system around 1992 - hence the music being ahead of its time with a few years at least. Edit. Too bad the link to the file in the description isn't clickable - bc now one has to scribble the entire address down on a paper or other memo app/word-style software to access the page/file.
It's a banger. Could definitely have been used as melee music as is. The intro is very suitable and then we would have just drawn out matched to hear the rest just like aimlessly hanging in quasi-space. P. S. I play the hyperspace theme while quantum travelling in star citizen. They've failed by having it take so long without an awesome track to go with it.
The irony isn't lost on me :-) I provide a link in the video's description to an archive that contains both the original tracker files as well as an .MP3.
My story with this game was my Father had a version on DosBox, and I later found the mobile version later on in life. Perfect for my keyboard tablet I had at the time! (and I still have keyboard tablets even now)
The StarCon 2 Battle we got is pretty good and very fitting, but I must say... This might have worked as well. Really solid arcade vibes. The type of thing that made arcades magical back in the day. Wouldn't mind having this as an option in UQM at all. At least, it's pleasing in stereo, like this. It may have been overpowering in mono.
Not true, since ST2 didn't have released source at that time, and they needed to play Protracker MODs anyway. Come to think of it, I don't think ST2 or ST3 ever had released source code...
I can see Paul Reiche's perspective. It might be *just barely* too full for combat. It's borderline. It's still an incredible piece of music nonetheless, and I wish there could have been an option where you could have used this for the battle music instead.
I agree with TFB: Marc's track was an excellent .mod, but just too 'busy' for the Star Control II battle scenes. It would make ideal cutscene transition or as pointed out by @lsteak80 for the 'final boss' music imo but "Battle!" works far better for the type of combat with all it's mixed samples that the various ships in SC2 use. Excellent and informative video though!
Interesting video, appreciate the work that went into it! The tune was great, it's unfortunate it didn't make it. But, am I the only one who was reminded of Jazz Jackrabbit's music? It sounded so much like a Jazz tune.
@@TheOldskoolPC I have zero knowledge about tracker music or any music production of any kind; so was there a general limited number of tracker samples/instruments or something?
Thanks for this info. I never knew about this soundtrack. And the music is amazing, but I have to agree with Paul and Fred. It is too strong to fit the rest of the game, but they could have used this for the final battle of Sa-matra.
IMO, this theme could've worked for a noble and heroic warrior/freedom-fighting race with design aesthetics that draw from a mix of glam rock and contemporary kids-friendly superhero shows like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Swat Kats, or Sonic the Hedgehog, with equally upbeat personalities befitting such cool kids-friendly superheroes with attitudes (that could've also served as a foil of sorts to the Druuge, perhaps justified by having some sort of grudge against them (and perhaps also the Kohr-Ah) for the Druuge's past actions, such as the Druuge being responsible for luring the genocidal Ur-Quan Kohr-Ah to the Burvixese by planting a Hyperwave Caster near their space, and that this race could've been related to the Burvixese in some mutually-beneficial way, such as having been cousins, peaceful exiles, dutiful servants, disciples, and/or merely close friends to them). I'd imagine their ships being modeled after modern-day fighter jets with a starfighter twist (similar to an Arwing from Star Fox), and possibly being some of the higher-point ships in-game (at least 18), due to being not only fairly-fast, highly-agile, and somewhat tough (like the Spathi Eluder), but also having quite the punch to them (like the Yehat Terminators) due to featuring a mix of fast-firing mid-range homing missile weapons for primary fire (like the Spathi Eluder's rear-firing missiles, or the Mmrnmhrm X-Form's Y-Wing-form's homing missiles), and a powerful (and defensive) short-range shotgun mine blast that'll also propel the ship away from the massive recoil generated (similar to the Druuge Mauler's cannon).
The video shows a better mixing than SC2 was capable of, but the reality would have been worse. Something Paul and Fred didn't mention: The original SC2 tracker code halves the music volume whenever a sound effect is played. This has a choppy effect on any music with a continuous melody.
Considering that track is pretty much on the same level as something from Chris Huelsbeck, it is very impressive. However, I do agree that it does drown out the sound effects, and would probably be more appropriate in something more action-oriented.
This sounds like the reverse of the scenario that happened later with Teque's song in the original Unreal Tournament (1999) - he got a lead instrument removed and he (and Nitro) never got credited. Still don't know why.
I ran the game in an emulator and slowed down the execution speed; the picture comes up before the menu does, for a split second, and I extracted a frame of my capture without the menu. But you might notice that the picture is extended in a few directions, which was the result of me reworking the image in photoshop.
whats interesting about this music is how different it is from normal mod music, when you listen to the sc2 soundtrack it all sounds like they literaly just went to a bbs and downloaded the first 20 mods they saw, it all sounds exactly like normal random mods youd find anywhere. this mod is totally different! it sounds like more then 4 voices tbh. i used to laugh at pc users back in the day because they were blown away by what really sounded like normal generic mods to me at the time, maybe i was just spoiled as an amiga user we had music like that for years already
they should have put an option to select but I accidentally found this video while listing the the original battle them. The campaign game sucks and a mess for most, but the melee was the main point in playing the game. its like playing street fighter and wasting time traveling and talking than fighting. SC2 is one of the best games of all time and hope they put the song in The Ur Quan Masters. Also heard a remix called "Space Things (Star Control 2 Hyperspace & Tyrian Camanis)"
Toys for Bob had nothing to do with SC3. It was a separate development group. Also, any regular musician could compose with MIDI, but it takes a special kind of person to compose a MOD.
You know, it's never too late to incorporate it now. I mean, the whole game's been open sourced as The Ur-Quan Masters. Did Marc sign any manner of licensing agreement or assignment to Toys For Bob? If so then someone could always find a place for it today. Personally I think it doesn't work as a combat theme either. Honestly I'm not sure where you'd put it. That doesn't mean, however, that someone else can't find a spot for it. It's worth exploring.
I love the SC2 music, I regularly will start randomly humming the tracks, but this song just feels…off to me. It almost feels too much of a time and very dated, whereas the other music feels more timeless. Of course, if the track had been in the game and I heard it over and over, I might feel differently.
i got recomended this remix a guy did after discovering your video ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-bsSfGaNiX1Y.html its a real pro sounding update, and like i told him it has that same hi energy quality s the original, his video shows what battles could have felt like with a custom tune like this just like you did. makes me think how many remixes we coulda had today 30 years later if they found a way to use the tune in the game like in the final battle like a lot of ppl have suggested
lol i had the exact opposite thought, maybe its because i lived through that time period and listened to plenty of mods back then, seriously the mods they used in sc2 sound like what you got when you downloaded random mods from your local bbs but this unreleased mod souds waaay different, i agree with others it sounds more like final boss music then normal fight music
It's a downright disgrace Star Control franchise has gone to waste. Best we get nowadays is some trash cartoonish children's game by some unknown PC shitware company
