The Star Wars Philosopher’s Guide to Form VI of Lightsaber Combat 

that is just classic 2v1 fighting. 2v1 you always backing up and moving alot to avoid getting flanked

I'm like 99% sure this is a copypasta of an older star wars vid (I think from Star Wars Explained or a similar channel).

Yeah, finally someone sees it. To learn and master form VII you need to base it from somewhere, form VI is Darth Maul’s base.

Niman did Incorporate a dual blade as well as a Single blade.

Dooku also incorporates Niman moves. Ultimately each duellist develops their own style and makes it their own using the forms as a baseline.

Dont forget the jedi exile if she was a jedi watchman class

Darth Kraut is a fan of sauerkraut ? Just being silly.

Starkville ? Crewman of the Orville ? Jokes aside, only the Starkiller clone from TFU2 practiced Niman, Galen Marek was a Soresu/Shien/Juyo practitioner.

Well the lack of jar kai and double bladed lightsaber wielders on Geonosis may have been a part of the problems the Jedi who used it were practically untrained on Geonosis since they did not build a variance that was suitable or appropriate due to the circumstances the fact that jar kai and double bladed lightsabers were more used by sentinels instead of consulars makes it perhaps an inappropriate form for them to use and it is curious why they used it as a standard form due to a lack of sentinels in the clone wars any thoughts

Given how form 6's base form was form 3 is it just me but wouldn't have made more sense to simply study soresu true it was a predominately defensive form however like count dooku put it it is better to master one form than to be good at a few?Considering how people were too lazy to study lightsaber combat it would seem to make more sense to understand a simple form rather than putting the time on a form that excelled at nothing any thoughts?

They never mastered the form.

Another way niman could be used is to counter an opponent's lightsaber form. What I mean by that is a niman user can adapt to their opponent's lightsaber form and pick the techniques from niman that best counter that form. Then they can use mostly those techniques against that opponent and because of niman"s versatility it will have techniques that can counter any form.

@@imasocialbutterflful Only works if the Niman practitioner’s skillset has enough techniques to strike at the weaknesses of your opponent. A strength based Niman may be sluggish to deal with a speedster. Or a defensive juggernaut unable to deal with a trickster.

Another thing you forgot to mention is that Niman is also perfect for incorporating foreign ways of fighting. If you're an expert in some an exotic way of fighting that can't be integrated to other lightsaber forms, then Niman is the perfect form for that. Geetsly himself said that the Jedi even got the name Niman after watching some exotic fighting style.

I really really wish people would learn the whole saying for Jack of all trades. The whole thing goes "Jack of all trades, master of none, still better than a master of one". Basically it implies being able to do everything good is better than being able to do one thing great.

Stop talking

@@markcarpenter6020 stop talking

@@ericthreeman make me

@@markcarpenter6020 respect. Finally another person who knows its truth. 👽

This is exactly what a master swordsman does in real life all the time you can't just rely on one style all the time you need to mix up styles keep your opponent off guard.

You said it yourself, both of them, the most notable examplar users of Form VI, are strategists. Using Form VI adeptly & effectively requires one to actively think on one's feet, a quality that few posseses, or it'd simply be a form you can rely enough on to get you out of a fight in one piece, provided that you're not stuck in the fight to begin with.

I dunno, Form V users are still OP 😅 if they're quick enough, even Ataru speed won't save you. Anakin added a little bit of Ataru to his Form V movement so you couldn't run from him

To me, even if it's not the style but the user who makes the difference, Form V is second best lightsaber forms just after Niman. Because Form V is already a start of hybridization of Soresu, Makashi and Ataru maneuvers in some ways. Form V is already balanced between defense and offense, has solid parries and blocks from Soresu, the efficiency and economy of movements of Makashi and the agressive philosophy of Ataru. Then it just build its own style with counter attacks and focus on raw physical strength. It is "easy" to build around that style to match almost any opponent just like Niman. Just Niman being much more harder to master fully. That's why Form V is my favorite, as Niman a close second one. But yeah, in potential, Niman is just nigh invincible. It's even more impressive when you know that Niman lacks of Makashi and Juyo maneuvers and techniques.@@thalmoragent9344

​@bastienbauvineau562 Yeah I can agree with that. Form V Jemn So or Shien, either way it's very OP. Anakin adding in the speed and force augmented strength (basically the style of Ataru) to his Form V Jemn-So moveset is what made him a beast. (And Shien being the more defensive version is also great, better than Soresu since it allows for more aggressive deflection) I've placed Jemn-So, Juyo and Niman as my top 3 picks, but Jemn-So beats them in my mind.

The Jedi Order as a whole was not prepared to wage a war, something that Darth Sidious exploited magnificently. Geonosis was a killing ground for Jedi, but I would argue that that was as much a consequence of Mace Windu's shockingly abysmal tactics as any weakness of Niman as a Form. Windu led them into a slaughter, and then immediately led the Clones into another. In summation, Geonosis was the perfect storm of errors, beginning with the Jedi not realizing the situation they were walking into. Gathering a bunch of Niman-wielding ordinary Jedi to go into open warfare is like taking a civilian cop and throwing them into a mission alongside Seal Team Six; their training is sufficient for their normal job, but they just aren't equipped to deal with that level of warfare.

Compared to the Jedi of the Old Republic era(who had thier own problems) the "modern era" Jedi were basically bible thumping mall cops.

Well, the others could be heavily augmented by the force as well, particularly 5 and 7..

​@@GiggaGMikeE Well, most of them. Some still knew how to properly wield a Saber

I believe with 86 percent of the Jedi dying on Geonosis it’s very hard to point at a single style being weak since masters of various forms died.

I’d see Darth Krayt as the superior Niman user. He’s not as reliant on a gimmicky lightsaber as Kun nor on an insane physical edge like Grievous. Krayt just one or two lightsabers and his extreme power in the Force

​@@Trey-dp6tl 🤡 exar kun was way stronger physically than grivious and his Niman techniques from the dark jedi exile tulak hord ajunta pall ect he also could use sith magic and dark side tendrils to distract his enemies and kill them easy even luke Skywalker couldn't deal with his skills

@@alsimmonshellspawn6021 I agree he claps Grievous, but he’ll have a heck of a time defeating Darth Krayt

@@Trey-dp6tl krayt didn't have as much power In the force compared to a prime exar. If a weakened drained exar spirit was more powerful than prime luke Skywalker and vader image if he was st full power at that time it took luke Skywalker to be in his spirit form be able to handle kun alone with other force users krayt is overrated

@@alsimmonshellspawn6021 krayts spirit is most certainly more powerful than luke at his peak. No one short of abeloth really was. And only prime sidious, Krayt, and *maybe* vitiate even compared. I’m not sure where you get the idea krayts overhyped either most folks never bring him up.

AKA the literal first image result for Qui-Gon Jinn.

@@InfinityOrNone Yep exactly. That's the stuff I mean. I've always found them interesting.

If you mean in the thumbnail, fair enough. But he literally shown niman pose at the first few seconds. But then again there are different poses that shows niman, including Cal Kestus in fallen order when he first met the second sister.

@@TheLuconic There's no opening stance for Niman. Opening stances are signatures & identities of the forms themselves, & Niman doesn't have a signature nor identity of its own. It's simply a form that reflect & project what the user already is.

I wish Star Wars showed more strategy regarding that. About the only time strategy was shown explicitly, was when Obi-Wan changed from Form III to IV to bait Maul into trying the same combo that worked against Qui-Gon

Then you remind them that Niman was exar kuns lightsaber form and they quiet right down lol.

@@danielsuarez3198 And Revan's form.😁

@@jackwitt7430 yeah my bad lol i was getting out of a 15 hr shift and forgot about him 🤣

The insults are actually warranted. With the abhorrently rare exceptions like Exar Kun & Revan, most simply took the form because it's easy to pick up & leaves them to figure out what to do with the options they've learned. In the hands of the eager & diligent, it's free real estate for unique mixes & matches. For just about anyone else, the form simply encourages laziness.

@@FalconWindblader they didn’t study hard enough

Cin Drallig and Darth Revan.

Revan also is a master at form 6

I’d also consider Roan Shryne from Rise of Darth Vader to be a Niman master and, in my opinion, the best Niman user during the Clone Wars. Man survived the entire war with barely a connection to the Force on lightsaber skill alone

Let's add : Cal Kestis Eeth Koth (suggested) Asajj Ventress Starkiller clone from TFU2 Grievous

@@yrooxrksvi7142 Asajj is a Makashi master and Koth’s technique looks a lot more like Makashi than anything else

Not really. A master of Form VI simply means they know how to play with techniques of all previous forms in unorthodox, unique ways. It's a scenario of someone beating a swordsman with a screwdriver. Said someone didn't win because he's a master swordsman with a disadvantaged tool, but because he knows enough about swordplay to counter the moves, while using the screwdriver in probably absurd, baffling ways.

Both Cal and Luke, if I’m not mistaken. Would make sense, as they have to piece together old instructions and create a style of their own. VI is perfect for that, plus it is a hard counter to any foe. Incredibly useful during and after the empire.

Also Jaro Tapal, his master.

His one bladed style looks pretty Form V to me, though. Heavy, with a lot of powerful swings

I prefer Niman over the rest too

I wish people would learn the whole saying. People say Jack of all trades master of none as and think it's bad, but the whole saying is "Jack of all trades, master of none, still better than a master of one."

Yo can clearly see how obi wan uses a defensive style and is dar from being a coward.

The form's inherent weakness lies with it's greatest strength. A form that encourages you to do everything is essentially a form that DOESN'T encourage you to do anything. It's a form that doesn't call for mastery but unique applications of its teachings. Only the most driven & the most creative, qualities required for one to be a battlefield strategist, would truly become an effective jack of all trades with the form.

Precisely. Form VI is essentially a form that gives you every option available & tells you NOTHING about what to do with them. If you lack the initiative to figure out what to do with the tools you're given, as most Form VI users do, you'd be essentially running into the battlefield knowing everything yet capable of doing nothing.

They were really unsuited for that fight. Many of them most likely preferred to focus on other studies than their bladework, thus giving them essentially a novice understanding of combat. Especially when paired with an individualistic style like Form VI.

Correction. Cal Kestis techniques, NOT Niman. Anything you can find in Niman, you can find in the other forms. It's the APPLICATION of said techniques deviating from the standard that makes Niman, Niman.

I love how Niman exemplifies the nature of a work ethic. Many Jedi who weren’t interested in saber combat went with it and many got killed because of it. But for someone who put in the effort it was one of the strongest

"A simple emission of gas. Sometimes audible, but be wary when not, for it'll make its presence known in a far less pleasant way. From being exposed to its smell one can learn much about its creator's health condition, and perhaps even their recent eating habits."

That's one of the glaring shortcomings of the form. Unlike other forms, it DOESN'T encourage mastery. While all 5 previous forms have clear-cut criteria for defining mastery, one could only tell if one have mastered Form VI in real, actual fights.

In the end it's easier said then done. You could go to school to be a lawyer only for a medical emergency to occur. Anyone could be both a lawyer and a soctor but how many people will put themselves through so much schooling and how good can you be a both if you're splitting your work days between a firm and a hospital. It takes a DaVinci, a Renaisance type of person, to actually take the time to carefully master multiple forms.

Well, some of them might have been quite fond of their weapons and took good care of them. Not unlike the differing philosophies when concerning car ownership. Some see it as a mere tool, some cherish and surgically maintain them.

If you're the type who identifies with a consular & 'enjoy a good fight', you'd do better with Form I or Form III. Form VI only truly rewards those who put in the time & effort MORE than those practicing other forms usually would, & people who're good at thinking on their feet. The 'easy to pick up' part is only enough for one to survive a fight in one piece, if one were to be able to get out of the fight in time.

@@FalconWindblader Darth Sidious, Darth Plagueis, Darth Revan, and Inquisitor Jerec were all Niman practitioners. They focused much more on their Force abilities but were unafraid or even enjoyed a lightsaber duel. Those are the models I would refer to.

@@archades115 Darth Plagueis ain't known that much of a fighter, Darth Sidious especially hated using lightsabers & wouldn't use one unless he has to, & Inquisitor Jerec ain't even a Form VI user to begin with. The only noteworthy in your list would be Revan, & if that's your ideal, prepare to work even harder than the guardians in terms of lightsaber training, unless you're extremely gifted. Skilled Form VI users are not uncommon & Form VI masters are not exceedingly rare without good reasons after all.

@@FalconWindblader Darth Sidious and Darth Plagueis not enjoying lightsaber duels is not the point. The point is that they were masters of Niman, in spite of focusing on their Force abilities. And Jerec probably was a Niman practitioner as a Jedi, given his unorthodox use of Makashi and heavy integration of Force powers.

@@archades115 There's nothing in the works that even remotely suggested that both of them were even Niman users, let alone masters. Darth Sidious' loathing for lightsabers was even especially noteworthy given that Niman is especially time-consuming to get effective. He wouldn't be hating lightsabers if he would be so willing to delve that deep into lightsaber combat, & if he did so as a lightsaber hater, his bladework would've been abhorrently sloppy. & By the way, his style is more like a very vicious version of Ataru. That much is evident in its constantly crazy speed & unchecked aggressiveness. Besides, Darth Sidious never bothered peppering fights with Force powers after he drew his blade. & Finally, a Jedi or a Sith ain't necessarily a Niman user just because they favor uses Force powers regularly in combat. Niman is still primarily a lightsaber combat form, & Force powers are only meant to augment bladework, making it easy for them to handle themselves in a fight. Use of Force powers is NOT forbidden in the other forms, & when fighting gets less intense, Jedi & Sith alike would more often than not, throw in Force powers & examples are aplenty. If a Jedi or Sith just keeps spamming Force powers while hardly ever drawing their blades in a fight, then they're just using Force powers instead of using a lightsaber combat form. It's just like how one can hold a gun & a sword at the same time, yet you can't say you're using swordsmanship while using the gun in your other hand like 70% of the time & more. In this case, you're just using a gun while holding a sword.

That's only possible when you're a battlemaster, the kind of jedi who's all about fighting 24/7. Anyone else could be counted as exemplary, if not exceptional, just by being SKILLED enough with 3 forms.

@@FalconWindblader A battle master knows all 7 I'm talking about learning just 4 or reinventing form 6. Cin Drallig didn't do much fighting, but he did technically master all the forms. But there are also other jedi who have been able to study all forms. And it's not just battle masters it's lightsabre instructors in general who know all 7. A battlemaster is what I would have aspired to be if I didn't dislike 3 of the 7 forms so much. I don't think I could fully grapple the philosophy of form 3 and I believe few jedi ever truly did but I think it's a good supplement for form 5 even if it would be a more of a technical mastery without fully embracing the philosophy, I think form 1 would come very natural to me, but forms 2 and 5 would take more desiccation and would be my primary focus of study. Pretty much all I'd do is train and be a part time archivist and or historian, so I'd have plenty of time to train at the temple, since I'd be a consular. Guardians can't get away with that sort of thing they have to stick with what's practical in the field probably just mastering one to three forms without being innovative. But consular can spend years training Niman which is composed of 4 of the 7 forms. It would be a challenge, but others have done more than study 4 forms.

@@benerdick_cumberbiatch You've grossly underestimated just how time-consuming it'd be if you wanna be good in more than 2 forms, & think that you'd have time to be a historian & archivist. Just like how it is with real life martial arts, getting extremely skilled with any ONE of the forms would take considerable amount of time, ESPECIALLY when it comes to Form 6. Wanting to even be good in just 3 would already mean that you won't have time for anything else other than food & sleep, unless you're one of those very long-lived species. If it had been that easy to get good with many forms, specialists wouldn't have been a thing.

@@FalconWindblader Think of a modern historian who is also a librarian working both jobs part time who also practises MMA. Sure they probably won't be well versed in every subject of history, they'd specialise in one era. Would they be out there fighting for the UFC winning titles? No. Would they be particularly good at any one fighting style? Maybe, but probably not to the point they could beat world class boxers at their own sport. Could they beat other MMA fighters who have more real fight experience but haven't trained as much? Possibly. MMA is like Niman it's multiple fighting styles mixed together. Say you wanted to switch out a common component of MMA, Brazilian jujutsu for one which isn't as commonly practised. Now you have your own style. Also if you stayed at the Jedi temple you have access to training grounds, the archives and you could study history there. You don't need to travel from place to place. So yes I believe it would be quite a task, but it's not impossible.

@@benerdick_cumberbiatch Jacks of all trades & master of none in the very truest sense of the word then. Beyond amateur, but nothing truly professional. It could work in that case, personally speaking, but it'd make me wonder if the Jedi order would actually allow one of its members to spend so much time in what is essentially their own hobbies instead.

That's the misunderstanding about the form. Form VI places heavy emphasis on outwardly expressive Force use because it's the other tool always available to the Jedi other than their lightsabers. You can find a Niman user who spams telekinetic moves all the time, just as likely as you can find one who doesn't use such powers in combat at all. It's the unique, creative use of whatever tool a Jedi has at their disposal, even a blaster or hell, a metal pipe, that defines the form, NOT expressive use of Force powers.

@@FalconWindblader general grievous is a ability mimic. he just copies styles, and he falls back on fighting dirty when ever he can. I still not call him a user of form 6, but someone who is trained against form 6 users should do better then others against general grievous. Also Kit Fisto made general grievous look like a fool in their duel in the clonewars show. Kit Fisto is a master of form 1. If general grievous could have adapted better like y'll say form 6 does He would have overwhelmed Kit Fisto

Well he had four arms so..

The lack of Force power use in previous forms is NOT an oversight. Just like physical combat, use of outwardly expressive Force powers require focus. Constantly switching between lightsaber & Force power is akin to trying to watch 2 different shows at the same time, or shoot at 2 different targets with the 2 guns in your hands. It's a feat that's insanely difficult, if not utterly impossible to pull.

I see you don't know the whole saying. The whole saying goes "Jack of all trades, master of none, still better than a master of one". The saying was made to point out being able to do everything good was better than only being able to do one thing great.

@@markcarpenter6020 which is exactly why a makashi practicioner would decimate a niman user.