In my perspective, wobbling is something that should have been banned from the start. To begin, it's an infinite, and infinites have been banned since brawl. It's also really toxic for the Icees players as well, because if the character has an instakill grab, why would anyone bother digging for new tech or staying creative on the character. Its promising for the future of icees that wobbling is banned, because now, all of the icees players are finding new ways of using their character, rather than relying on an overpowered cheese within the character.
the wobble ban was good because it made the ICs players develop actual neutral game instead of just relying on grab. If you look at slug, he can kill stocks without a grab. He would still LIKE to be able to grab, but he has a great understanding of the neutral game like no other ICs which allows him to still get his way without the Z button. From desync setups to slingshoting nana at the opponent to then punish them for hitting nana, ICs have many untapped tools that were simply NOT used when wobbling was allowed, so if anything, ICs might even be slightly BETTER if the player is willing to put in the work.
Hi Although I don't comment on your videos, I have been watching them for a few months. I just wanted to say that I like your content, but your point can often get lost among superficial details. Your title is "The State of the Ice Climbers in 2022" and I found it very pertinent since it's been a while since I've watched a good ices player, yet your videos disapointed me because you talk about generic wobbling stuff for 4:55 minutes before talking about the main subject : the lack of ices in the meta, which I don't necessarily only associacte with the wobbling ban. I think your 3.51k subs aren't melee noobies, and I think most of them know about ices and wobbling, so the added value might be kinda low for most of them. Keep going tho, this isn't a hate comment at all, much to the contrary bc I think you have the abilities to push your analysis further beyond. Good luck and keep safe HONEST CONTENT!
It should be noted that the most recent tier list, which polled many current and former top players and commentators, was compiled under the assumption that wobbling is allowed, as the technique is not banned at 100% of tournaments. It is hard to believe that any future tier list will be assembled this way (perhaps one with wobbling and one without?), and I would expect ICs to drop much further in that ranking.
The tier list was made with wobbling legal in mind not necessarily because there are some tourneys that don’t ban wobbling but because pg stats started taking in responses as early as 2020 when wobbling was still legal at every major and super major and the vast majority of smaller tournaments. As for now, personally I guess they’d prolly fall down to the 10th spot below yoshi and pika, but not much lower than that, they’re still obviously pretty decent
This is not true. Legal wobbling in itself was a type of patch, one where the competitive community had to restrict its power to 300% or else it would be a game-breaking stalling tactic. There are numerous other game breaking stalling tactics which haven't been patched out of the game, but we agree not to use them for the sake of competitive integrity. These include freeze glitch, peach bomber stall, sing stalling etc. There's nothing stopping you from performing these things in game, but we've agreed not to use them. Wobbling is no different. Without the arbitrary 300% cap that is not coded into the game, it's an absolutely game breaking stalling tactic. We patched it by adding the 300% rule, and eventually said fuck it and just banned the entire thing just like many other things in the game. No patch required.
not gonna lie, I was really hoping this video would be about how ice climbers players have adapted after the wobbling ban! instead the video title is just wrong lol
As a completely new player who hasn't yet experienced the woes of being wobbled, why don't we just out a rep count on how many times they can do wobble reps (like letting them only get 5 wobble reps per stock) it means that it's able to be a used consistent option but limits it from being over centralised
i don’t play melee and just a spectator but i think it’s crazy that they banned wobbling when ics aren’t even a top 5 character, and barley anyone plays ics anymore cause of it. basically just wiped a character out
The argument for banning wobbling was never and never will be that ICs are too good with it. This narrative needs to die. It was banned for the reasons such as decentivizing interaction, making gameplay incredibly binary, ruining low level play at locals and hence turning new players away from the game, being bad for viewership, etc. Those are very valid reasons. The reason barely anyone plays ICs anymore is because a large chunk of the ICs playerbase were ppl who just wanted to skip out on the hard work of developing a punish game, because lets be honest, wobbling is the easiest shit ever. Personally i learned to do that consistently in 15 minutes flat and got 3rd at my local with it one day. There are still ICs that demonstrate a really strong punish game without wobbling, where with good techchasing you can get upwards of 100 damage of grabs and thats not even talking about handoffs in the corner, where grabs are still a guaranteed kill, due to how Nana throw works.
@@SelfMadeHero04 I agree for the most part, however, the fact that banning wobbling would have people interact with ics is just wrong. No matter which character you play, ics lose if you just runs away. That's why the peach/puff mus are atrocious. All banning wobbling did in that aspect was keep away a way to win against that playstyle. Though I I agree that having wobbling legal pushed back ics growth by a huge margin. With it legal, the character was almost never explored past basic handoffs. Hopefully now ics will find some new tech that makes them more fun to watch and play.
@@sylvanadvocate1858 Running away doesnt just beat ICs btw, theres other characters that struggle with that like Peach and Puff and the players of those characters still make it work. ICs players pre-wobbling-ban were fishing for grab 90% of the time, of course thats gonna hard lose to plat camping. Watch how SluG played vs camping at TMT against some of the best players in the world, including taking sets off of Hbox and IBDW, its not all lost when you dont tunnelvision for grabs only.
Good video but none of the filmed cinematic were wobbles 🤣 you were jabbing instead of tilting. I know it’s nit picky, not a big deal just really funny.
Personally, as someone who has never played Melee competitively, I feel like wobbling is in a weird place in the game. But I’d say let the ICs have it for 2 reasons. Number 1: No one ever wins big Melee tournaments besides the top 30 players so what’s the big deal. And number 2: It makes for some of the most PHENOMENAL salt moments I’ve ever seen. Have u even seen sad M2K? Classic
The problem with wobbling isn't that it made ICs overpowered, the problem is that it was extremely annoying and frustrating to play against, and extremely boring to watch. Balance wasn't an issue, but at the end of day, we play and watch Melee to have fun. And having a character that litterally stops the game for 30 seconds and takes a stock out of a grab is NOT fun.
I think it was great, I watched some matches with icies post wobbling and it's been actually entertaining, not to mention how nice it is for stream viewers not having to check out for 30 seconds until the game resumes
I don't think wobbling is a Bad Thing I don't think it needed to ban but even if it was ban I don't think it would ruin the character of Ice Climbers there are many different things that the Ice Climbers can do that does not involve wobbling that needs to be explored and that's why more people are calling him the most underappreciated character in The melee tier list so far to be honest there needs to be more ice climber players no matter what anybody says
To people who don’t follow melee that much a player called Slug has had some recent success with the Ice Climbers at a good size online tournament without wobbling. Banning wobbling does make the character much harder to win with but I think that this success shows some promise for the future of the character.
and I think a future of more valued skills on top of creative desync combos from the few who choose to really pursue and push the character is a brighter future than one where more people play icees but they go unexplored due to wobbling
I don''t think wobbling should be banned... iceclimbers were not even top 5 and for a game with as limited as cast as melee they really need all the tools they can get
People need to stop talking about the past with IC. Its been years and when ever ice climbers is brought up in a convo its about wobbling. I wanna hear about the new IC tech and what developments/ things can they do
