The Story Of The Sega Saturn & Sega 32X At War 

+Andrew Vrba yep!

That's not to say Sega of America didn't make some mistakes of their own, like pressuring John Carmack to have the Doom port ready for the 32x's launch, instead of delaying the 32X's launch to coincide with him getting Doom as polished as he could.

+Andrew Vrba Yeah, in a lot of ways SOA and SOJ were their own worst enemies. One of these days inn going to do a video on just all of the corporate Sega turmoil.

Predicting the right thing to do is often a lot harder than seeing the wrong thing to avoid. Tom Kalinske needed to look no further than Nintendo to generally know what the right thing was, and to look at Sega to know what the wrong thing was. Then he could address Sega with an "um, actually" statement about how wet the water is and wave his arms a bit. So either way, his reactions seemed visionary within such a dysfunctional dud of a company.

Oh man that would be great. There's a lot of interesting aspects to the relationship between Nakayama and anyone associated with him. Would love to see you cover this video! Do you have a patreon by any chance?

+prettzx thanks, appreciate it!

prettzx I just go through them like podcasts. 8 hours a day, I'm gonna run through his content in no time

+Kyle Pace Thanks man. I'm working on my next video now. Hoping to have it out on 7-10 days

Wrestling With Gaming no problem subbed and notifications on. You just made the list! Of Kyle's choice channels

+Kyle Pace 😂

+Jackson Ha ha!

Metal Jesus is ripped is what seems to be going on here.

+bwgti lol

And he knows what he is talking about too, none of this "Now this is a real hidden gem of a game that no one ever heard of before! Mario Kart? Am I saying that correctly? Tell me more about it, guest person!" *cuts to a person who looks like a gun is pointing at them just out of frame* Yeah, it's um, great. "Okay, out next game...." Keep up the great videos you make, you deserve so many more subscribers.

+Ken Williams lol, this cracked me up man. Thanks for the encouraging words. The subscribers will hopefully come eventually. I'm just happy that there's other people out there interested in this stuff too!

+Xalen Maru Yeah, I think that echoes the experiences of a lot of people. Sega really screwed things up for themselves.

Yea.. I loved my genesis 16 bit. I wanted to get a saturn but it was gone by the time i had the money for it. Then ff 7 came out. Wanted to check it out. Looked good from the commercials. So i ended up woth a playstation. Came with a demo for ff7. Was wowed at the time. So i bought it. Was blown away. For the time it was an amazing beautiful story and the cinematics were awesome. Glad i went that route. Tocbad about sega though. I was one of thise kids too. Heck the dreamcast looked great. It is an amazing system.just to little to late.. Was a shame. Phantasy star might have stayed a better direction. The next one better than the last. Wich they were until it ended with dreamcast. The ps2 one was ok but wasn't the same. Shining force could have done more but 3 was the last on saturn. I do believe. They had good titles that could have spanned the times. A few did.

+croakz Thanks, I appreciate that! Nothing is better than coming home from a long day at work and reading that, so again thank you. I only have 5 of these little documentaries up so far. Most of the rest of the videos are strange let's plays lol. I'm pretty much concentrating on the documentary style videos for now and am uploading one per week. They're all in the gaming documentaries playlist on my page if you want to avoid all the other stuff. Please share the videos if you can, like practically no one knows these exist lol. Thanks again!

No problem. I'll submit one to reddit and hope that we get lucky! I definitely know how you feel relating to video formats though, it's really hard to find a style which suits your skills best. I'm messing around with a bunch of ideas on my channel as well (shameless self promotion haha)

croakz thanks a lot, that's really cool of you to offer to post a link. It looks like a few of your videos are already generating pretty good views. I watched the battlefield vs titanfall video. I'm not even a fan of those games and found it really interesting. It was well written abs had great pacing. I think you're already on your way man.

Well. I will subscribe. Like croakz said. These are really well done and well paced. Lots of cool bits of info and media. Thank you for the videos Wrestling With Gaming!

+bwgti thanks so much for checking the channel out. This is one of my first ones so if you liked this video I think you'll like the newer ones better since they're, in my opinion, more thorough and better edited. Again, appreciate you taking the time to check out the channel. I know that there endless gaming channels to choose from.

I initially wanted to get a 32X Christmas of 94 but than my Dad heard that the Saturn and Sony new system Playstation is coming out the following fall he told me to wait. Christmas 1995 got a Playstation for Christmas.

seems like a lot of people did the same thing , playstation was really popular and segas consoles had become a bit confusing with all the add ons and stuff

And that's the ultimate reason why sega died they pissed off their user base and lost it plus the Saturn. Was meh when it came to rpg games another area they failed hard on

@@SuperZombiepimp While I'm sure those are factors, That probably is not the ultimate reason. Saturn was actually very successful in Japan....and the Dreamcast redeemed Sega to a lot of people in the west and sold well. If I was to choose the ultimate reason, it would be that the Dreamcast failed in Japan and Sega was bleeding money heavily during that period.

32X really destroyed consumer confidence in Sega. I remember being so excited to get 32X only to find out it did nothing for the games I already had, and the only 32X game I got was DOOM, which at the time I was too young and scared to play. What a horrible roll out.

+Stevinfinite ha ha. Thanks. Maybe next time I'll cover something they didn't screw up.

Even Sega fanboys held their nose and bought the PS1. I Remember seeing a PS1 and Saturn side by side. PS was running Ridge Racer, Saturn Daytona. In hindsight we all know that original version of Daytona wasn't great. However virtually everyone who was present had already decided the PS was the way to go.

+zsciaeount Thanks for the kind words. I really enjoy making these. The next video is going to be on the Atari Jaguar. I was able to get some input on it from Leonard Tramiel and am getting some assistance from a guy that works for a gaming magazine with research verification. All of that has made the video take longer to complete bit I think it'll be well worth it. Thanks again for checking the channel out. I truly appreciate it.

+HistoricNerd thanks man.

+Taylor Almond Thanks man! Next one is going to be on the Atari Jaguar. It should be out in a week or two.

+Relative Strength Advantage Yeah man, Sega really were in many ways their own worst enemy. Thanks for watching. This is one of my first ones. I'd definitely go back and change some things with the presentation of I did this today lol.

+Lord Cthulhu Thanks! Definitely more on the way. I'm about halfway through editing my next video (it's on the atari jaguar). I think I should have it out this week. I already have the research and script finished for the one after that so there won't be such a long stretch between that and the next video. Thanks for the kind words. It's really encouraging and appreciated.

+Phiniox Glade thanks!

+Mike Evans thanks man !

elin111 Sega *OF* America*

Sega of Japan were dumb cunts that didn't listen and they paid for it

Very good for Sony, Sega got trashy console.

Navi, The Real Fairies Queen Former YANG. Master, Genesis, Saturn and Dreamcast were all great consoles with some great games.

The problem was Sega of America thought they could control Sega of Japan. They didn't know their place. You don't see Nintendo of America, Sony Computer Entertainment America or Microsoft Japan trying to tell their parent companies what to do.

+Ricardo Saenz thanks man!

+Jeevitesh Khoda Thanks for checking the videos out, I appreciate it! if all goes well the next video will probably be out this weekend.

Thank you. Glad you're enjoying the videos.

+SwankeyMonkey Thanks for the kind words man. I'm just happy the people that have been coming to the channel seem to like the videos. Can't ask for much more.

I wish you much success! You deserve it, not only because of the content and its quality, but it's *very* apparent you put in a lot of hard work making these videos. Not to worry... the gaming community will find you, and support you.

+SwankeyMonkey Thanks, I appreciate it!

My last coment had a big typo lol. It should say this: Thanks so much. Really appreciate you taking the time to comment. It's definitely provides encouragement. My next video (on the jaguar) is taking longer than usual to complete but it's about halfway edited now. I hope to have it out soon. Reply ·

+H. Celine thanks!

+T. Glad t hear it! I think this was like the third video I did. I think you'll find the newer videos are far more polished. At least that's what I tell myself lol. Thanks for checking the channel out.

Every single month, there were changes to their roadmap. It wasn't until the Saturn had been in stores for over a year before people were ready to plunk down their hard earned money on the machine. Why take a risk? And by then, third party developers were bolting en masse to the new PlayStation because it was $100 cheaper and could put 90% as many textured polygons onscreen at once. To this day, some people think that the PS1 was more capable in 3D, and only a few 1997-99 Saturn titles proved otherwise. If only SoJ had stuck with their previous plan to support Tom Kalinski and let him run Sega Atlantic as he clearly knew retailers and consumers better.

+neorococco thanks!

+Wolfsite Thanks so much. Glad you liked it. This was only like my 3rd retrospective video. There's definitely a few things I'd go back and change. But If you like this one I think you'll really enjoy the newer ones. The newer ones have quite a bit more detail and better pacing in my opinion. Certainly better editing! Lol. Thanks for the comment though. Made my day.

Thanks so much for checking it out. Funny enough, I just finished watching Gaming Historian video on it as well.

+e501p Hey thanks so much for taking the time to watch and comment. I really, really, do appreciate it. I have more of these kinds of videos coming. Going to be putting one up about once a week.

+Immorpher Thanks. I'll probably do a longer video on all of Sega of America and Sega of Japan's infighting one day. I think this was the second or third video I did and I was pretty much trying to keep them at around 10 minutes or less so that the length wouldn't turn people off. I just assumed that's what would happen since no one knew of my channel. I mean, still pretty much no one knows of my channel lol. but I don't concern myself with the length as much anymore

+Labeld Thanks! Glad you dig the videos. Oh and I love me some New Japan.

thats after Nintendo made them who they are

@@UrskaFur Get a load of this Nintentard. Nintendo didn't make jack shit when it comes to Sony. Sony gained more experience publishing games for the Sega CD than Nintendo ever gave them. All they got from the Little N was a stab in the back.

@@madhatter8508 Actually it was Sony's greedy licensing contract that caused Ninty to ditch them. Sony wanted too much control over the Nintendo Play Station games distribution.

@@UrskaFur Ken Kutaragi loved Virtua Fighter and that helped make Playstation a 3D console. Namco also had former Sega employees working for them. Tekken was the child of a Virtua Fighter team member. You seem to ignore how much inspiration Sony drew from Sega.

@@eben3357 lol

+Nick Bartolo thanks man. Glad you like the videos!

+Ram Berto thanks so much man. Appreciate it!

Thanks so much for taking the time to watch. Appreciate it!

+Jerry Mondragon thanks man. Glad you like it!

+azz666 thanks!

+Williamkurk Thanks!

+Anas Elfellah thanks man. I just need to get more videos out. Should hopefully have one up on the jaguar in the next couple of weeks or so.

+Michael Muncatchy Thanks. Glad to hear it! Plenty more videos to come. I just need to start pumping them out faster.

You'll get into the swing of things, and are already generating plenty of buzz! I'd love to help spread the word as well.

+Michael Muncatchy Thanks man, I appreciate the support. I love making these anyway so I'm not super hung up on getting a ton of subs. Don't get me wrong, it'd be nice to have more people watch them but I'm flattered so many people have taken the time to check the channel out at all.

Thanks man! I appreciate the support.

I'm enjoying these too! Late 1993 to 1996 was such an interesting time in the gaming industry.

The best, there was actually real competition, and all parties involved had innovative things which differentiate them from the rest.

P2000Camaro two words, hedgehog fans....

P2000Camaro good question, because they're fairly well done videos

+MrMekmek29 thanks for the kind words. I really appreciate it!

Wrestling With Gaming you are welcome hoping for more content currently browsing your videos. Now I have you and the gaming historian to look forward to.

+MrMekmek29 I took a break last month but definitely have content coming this month. Editing a video on digital pictures as we type. I love Gaming Historian too. Dude is so good.

+OH MY GOD!!!! Thanks! I'm just glad even that many people have bothered to subscribe lol

+Lucas Black thanks!

+Mike Cannon Thanks so much!

It honestly was "selling nearly 6 million units in japan only" However the Saturn as meant to be 32bit 2d console and games where moving towards 3d at the time. That was the main issue/flaw with the saturn despite there being early ports/versions of 3d games on 3d0/Saturn/ps1 the Saturn versions where not always the best. Still I wonder what would've happened if the Saturn stuck to being a 32bit 2D only system with some 3D graphics, maybe we would've gotten Sonic Mania back in the 90's as the 4th game in the series.

@@CecilTheDarkKnight234 The Saturn was also hamstrung by some mediocre release games. The PS got this vital step absolutely spot on.

@@CecilTheDarkKnight234 I still find that decision so weird cause in the early 90's Sega was the absolute king of 3D arcade games. It would have been better if they had made a cut-down version of that 3D hardware which is pretty much what Nintendo did with the N64. However Nintendo had to outsource most of that while Sega had most of it in house.

But also I think it was bad timing. The Dreamcast came out in 1998 when the PS1 and N64 were firing on all cylinders. A big reason the PS1 succeeded was because it came out at the perfect time when many people were looking to replace their aging SNES or Genesis. When the Dreamcast came out many people were still enjoying their PS1's and N64's and both still had many great titles come out every year. The PS2 came out in 2000 which is when many PS1 players were starting to get tired of their console and it was starting to look significantly behind pc's so when most were looking to upgrade. The lack of DVD drive wasn't the only thing that made the PS2 succeed. Sony had a very reliable brand name and in 2000 many people wanted a new console. The PS1 and N64 in 1999 were losing a lot of steam and their age was really starting to show.

+Matt Roy thanks man

+Ray Michaud thanks, glad you liked it!

+matterofact Thanks so much.

+chadboy77 thanks for checking it out.

Even the Xbox wasn't assured. For all we know, in a parallel universe, Sega's console business survived and Microsoft published games for it instead of making their own console because they deserve each other. In another universe, Nintendo and Sony didn't doublecross each other and there was no PlayStation, so maybe Microsoft saw a giant market opportunity to make a console because Nintendo would never collaborate with a company as third-rate, tasteless, monopolistic, and generally terrible as Microsoft.

Andy Craig honestly I think 3DO was a good idea only in the sense of a commoditized clone model, and only in theory. I think it was overall ill-fated because it is made of weak, weird, clunky, overbuilt, underpowered hardware with no talent for games. It wouldn't be until 1999 when CDROMs would be anything but an expensive slow gimmick. I can't believe 3DO was designed by an Amiga guy. The whole thing was smoked by a couple of cartridge upgrade chips in the SNES along with the world's best game software -- and a much lower price tag.

As for Sega's ability to maintain consoles, I really wonder, because in the end, it all comes down to games! In the parallel universe where Sega never quit making consoles, then we'd still be left with Sega, which mostly doesn't make great games. Today's retrospective on Sega and the misfit/reject/copycat culture that it fostered allows us to skip year after year and title after title that are just forgettable dreck, and only focus on the compilation of classics. lol. Of the few Sega games I liked, most were arcade games, not the console games. And we see how Sonic turned out, even before the platform's demise. Other than developing cool arcade hardware, I don't know what substance Sega has except its self-victimized rebellion complex of reacting to Nintendo and to basic cultural decency. So I guess I'd give a similar assessment of 3DO, although they weren't as obnoxious and disgusting and lame as Sega. :) Because it's allllll about the games. It's just 100% of nothing, in a race to the bottom, in a bowl full of crabs clawing to get over each other, without the best games. AKA Mario and Zelda and Pokemon lol.

To me it's like divisions within corporation that disagree and only care about their local economy.

The SektorZ yeah Sony proposed to Nintendo not Sega oh tho Sony had involvement with the Sega CD game's so to think Microsoft worked alongside with with the Dreamcast while Sony was trying to work with Nintendo and now look it's Sony PlayStation or Microsoft Xbox man those companies stole gaming ideas from them I'm Tru to my roots Sega all the way

+Stokes A I know, right?

To be fair, under that scenario there would be no Dreamcast. I seriously doubt if having Sega of America collaborate in building the PlayStation or PlayStation 2 would significantly alter the console on a technical level. Maybe a few more gaming franchises to offer and even a bigger share of domination over the market but overall, I'm pretty sure it would have ended up similarily.

It would mean Sega might still be a household name and more people would respect how Sega inspired Sony to make Playstation a 3D machine, because everyone would know it by default rather than having to read up on the history and how much Ken Kutaragi loved Sega's arcade games just think about how advanced they were in 1993 3D wise. It is funny that Kutaragi saw where games were going, thanks to Sega, and then convinced Sony to make Playstation 3D. It is a less well known account that Kutaragi explained at a conference.

SNK PlayStation is better than being Sega ownership.

jgfjgfify Ain’t "Saturn is not our future" an official quote.

+Mr. O-Town Thanks man! Glad you're digging the videos. Yeah, not a lot of people had a 32x growing up but I think it gets a bad rap. There are some great games on it.

ya I have fond memories of star wars, doom, virtua racing, blackthorne etc.. I find it crazy to see how the system is crapped on these days. Again great work, ive been binge watching all your videos

+Mr. O-Town Thanks again man. I should have a new video out very soon. Should be putting the finishing touches on it tonight. But back to the 32x, I think a lot of people crap on it because of AVGN's video on it. The one upside to people hating on it is that it's still pretty inexpensive to pick up a 32x.

ya even in the 90's i managed to get 90% of the library out of a block buster discount bin for dirt cheap lol

+GeoNeilUK YES! Exactly. I really only touch on the tip of the iceberg in this video. I plan on doing a video on the full history of SOA and SOJ's infighting at some point. I'll probably steal the Sega civil war title for it again lol

Don't forget that SGI developed a 3D game console chipset and shopped it around to Sega first. Tom liked it and Sega of Japan hated it. And...lol....a crestfallen Tom suggested Nintendo. Which SGI did, along with improvements based upon Sega's cold-hearted and dismissive critique. The history of the video game industry is dominated by the story of Nintendo's success, which is a story that's told just as much by Tom's interviews about Sega's endless failures from within Nintendo's looooong shadow. I discovered that lengthy interview with Tom, when I researched and rewrote the history of the Nintendo 64 on Wikipedia.

Yeah xenophobia is a Japanese habit, especially amongst older businessmen. :/

Normally this would be the opportunity to choose sides in that Civil War... #TeamSOA :D But, SOJ had some incredible games that never made Stateside, which was a bummer. So too bad they didn't get along so well, because then SEGA would have been an absolute force to reckon with with all their combined amazing IPs.

They probably figured Sony would try to rip them off the same way Sony tried to rip Nintendo off a few years earlier.

+mtshark7 thanks!

+Jon Sorenson what does event want? Games!

So true, and the "Wrestle with Gaming" is a dead give away.

+Karcus Korpse 😁

+Johnny Lira Thanks! Really appreciate it!

Thanks!

Thanks a lot, I appreciate it. This is a really old video too. I think you'll find my production quality has increased a ton on my newer videos.

+Joaquin Zuniga thanks!

+Andy Hargrove thanks man!

+nutpro thanks!

+Reptester Bragg thanks! since the Sega CD itself wasn't 32 bit I didn't really want to go into it. But I am going to do an entire video dedicated to the Sega CD at some point in the near future.

+...Since Spacies so true!

Have you ever why Sony never launch their hardware first in a generation, it's because they lack innovation and usually wait til the competitors reveal their game plan before the competition. This is Sony's way of imitating ideas and assure that they won't make mistakes. The PS1, PS2, PS3, PS4, PSP, PS Vita and PSVR were never the first hardware to launch in their market. For the PS1 generation, the 3DO launch first, for the PS2 generation the Dreamcast launch first, for the PS3 generation the Xbox 360 launch first, for the PS4 generation the Wii U launch first, for the PSP market, the DS launch first, for the PS Vita market the 3DS launch first, for the VR market the Oculus Rift launch first.

I'd say it's more of marketing strategy rather than lack of innovation and every console has different circumstances which lead to their launch dates. First like was said in the video Sony was trying to break in to the console biz as a partner at first and the 3DO was never really a rival it was just Nintendo and Sega and Sony tried to partner up with both. Also the PS2 is the best selling console of all time and I don't think Sony really ever considered the Dreamcast a threat which was still feeling the fallout from the Saturn and Sony knew it. I also don't really think Sony considered the Wii U it's rival due to the Wii U's specs at launch and just the design concept plus the Xbox One which was Sony's true competitor launched at around the same time(only 1 week later). I do agree that Sony's handhelds have been in response to Nintendo's DS/3DS line and that they haven't really been that creative in that department but then again it's just not a priority like Nintendo. The DS has saved Nintendo and is now just as important to them as their consoles which isn't the case with Sony but I disagree about them not being innovating with their consoles. Sony we're the ones who realized that 3D gaming was the future when sprite based gaming was the norm, they also brought dual analog controls to gaming which is now an industry standard, motion controls with the playstation eye before the wii and kinect, along with other minor things but they wouldn't/couldn't have been such a successful console gaming company if they we're innovative.

But there were dozens of other issues too, that was just a publicity stunt on Sony's part. He failed to mention in the video Sega of Japan, upon seeing the specs for the Playstation, were afraid the Saturn would lack power to compete in the newly 3D video game market, so they haphazardly threw in an extra chipset in hopes to raise its power. Unfortunately, that made development for the system way too cumbersome and difficult. Most developers didn't even have dev kits with the ability to use the new chipset so skipped on using it entirely. Sega had envisioned the Saturn of being a 2D powerhouse with the added ability of playing limited 3D games. With the announcement of the Ultra 64 being rumored, coupled with the Playstation, they knew 3D was the next wave of games. Along with retailers refusing to carry the Saturn (Walmart actually wouldn't carry them either, not just KB Toys), they really burned a ton of bridges along the way.

There was definitely internet then. I had internet in my house in the 95 for damn sure.

+Mouritogaia thanks!

+John Raymond T. Domingo Thanks a lot, really appreciate it. And I completely get where you're coming from. "Who the hell is this guy?" is pretty much what I think anytime I come across a new gaming channel lol. Thanks for giving my stuff a chance.

Saki630 yes true and they were working on a prototype of a DVD player for the Dreamcast as they seen how popular and success the DVD market got

Happy to see Nintendo renewed themselves from Switch launch. They’ve been fast forwards on backups blueprints plan of a GameCube + Xbox hardware device prior to 2000.

+xplics thanks!