Best gay joke friends did is when Ross says that Susan and Carol have a lot of books about being a lesbian. Susan says, with perfect delivery, "Well, you know, you have to take a course. Otherwise they don't let you do it"
i think the best one is after Ross's hook-up with the xerox girl. he's at Carol's and she looks at Ross like "you slept with another woman?" and Ross goes "ah, you're one to talk"
Why do you youtubers always talk about "hidden" LGBTQA+ people in series? Aren't the new series full of LGBTQA+ enough for you? Why are you youtubers spoiling the past series/movies?
I think my favourite is in the alternate “What if?” episode, where Carol never came out and Ross still didn’t know, until Rachel was like “Well you might wanna tell this guy that it sounds like his wife is gay.” And Ross is just like... “She is not... she’s gay... she’s gay... OH SHE IS SO GAAY!!!” Schwimmer’s performance there is great, but then Aniston steals it with “I’m sorry your wife is gay.” “I guess women aren’t that great either.” “Try telling my wife that.” 🤣
And Chandler and Monica’s relationship was so well written too. THAT, a healthy, long-lasting relationship based on communication, should’ve been the Big Writing Trend to come out of this show, not Will They, Won’t They.
As a gay guy, I had no problem with Chandler being a “softer” masculine guy. In some ways I would rather have had Chandler be a “queer acting straight guy” than a camp gay guy. Also - Phoebe is so obviously bisexual
I think Chandler being gay and having an LGBT father would feed into the stereotype of having lgbt parents makes you gay which is completely false. I also agree that having a feminine straight guy quite beneficial itself.
Chandler was clearly straight, but he was scared of homosexuality. With his father being trans and his mother an erotic symbol, with growing up so insecure and awkward, and then people calling him gay all the time, he is probably just scared of the thought that maybe he’s gay because of these reasons when he clearly isn’t. All these comments saying that he should be gay would literally just piss him off
Exactly. It would be an issue. Like Rachel Berry, for example, they would never made her and Quinn canon as Rachel has 2 dads. Straightland would freak out
@@ericjshorts3203 Nobody gets forced into thinking they are gay, and there are literally millions of bi people out there. It's tough to figure it out sure, due to society wanting to demonize anything not 'normal' but as time has went on, we know now that normal is to be gay, straight, bi, trans, or whatever makes you feel happy with consenting parties/yourself. It's just a journey and at the end of it, you're only trying to find yourself and what makes you feel complete. I struggled for years with trying to find who I was due to conflicting messages by society, but I am happy to find who I was though the process.
From my point of view, the most stereotypical "closet" gay character is without a doubt Ross (I specifically want to clarify what that is, a stereotype!). Ross is the one who dressed as a girl and played with dolls as a child, the one who is afraid that his son will play with Barbies, the one who does not want a babysitter boy, the one who is afraid to show any kind of behavior that could be "misunderstood" as sensitive. He is also the one who still seeks his parents' approval in everything, and who was reprimanded as a child by his father for being too sensitive (he confesses to the babysitter). Chandler never gave me the "gay air", rather the air of a masculine non-macho, which I think was what the authors were going for.
I think Ross is more of a cautionary tale for toxic masculinity and more spesfiically, the societal pressure that's part of it. A lot of his negative traits and most of his mistakes in the show stem from him supressing sides of his personality that doesn't align with the "macho alpha male" type he feels he needs to be due to the way society and his parents think. His insecurity with Rachel, how fast he proposed to Emily, blaming himself for his first wife's coming out, the whole nanny and GI Joe storylines, his unwillingness to be open about his feelings for Rachel, and a lot more tie to that.
And yet people idolise his relationship with Rachel. His obsessive crush on her ruined every other girl that passed through his life. Not to mention that it is very common for a closeted gay to obsess over a relationship with an attractive woman so that he has a not so obvious beard. Ross is a toxic character overall.
As a queer person I’m fine having chandler not be gay, only because i truly think him and Monica are perfect together. Like someone said in the comments, it was obvious phoebe is bisexual. I think that chandler being very feminine shows that feminine guys can be straight lol. Which is a big issue in our society. Obvi queer representation is an issue as well, but i feel its important to have non masculine male characters, esp those who are shown to be wonderful people.
Straight people, even gender nonconforming straight people, are not an underrepresented minority and should not be used as an excuse to not have a character obviously coded to be gay, actually be gay.
@@ravenfrancis1476 straight people aren't a minority, but feminine straight guys are, since they get oppressed for being themselves, and they also need representation
Why does everyone care so much about Chandler's sexual orientation when Phoebe is obviously bisexual? She was attracted to Ross and Monica's cousin and immediately answered "Rachel" when she was asked who she would date if she was gay. She was so obviously bisexual. If it isn't already clear I'm a huge Phoebe fan. I always love the oddball of the group.
Did Phoebe even have any love interests? I can't remember any. They kinda treated her as too kooky to date from my impression. If anything they wrote her as a sexual over bi.
@@thewittyusername I only remember Mike being a long-lasting one. Other than that, she also had the fireman, the children's teacher, and the scientist who moved to Minsk, that I remember, but other than that I don't remember many.
That’s right! She was definitely bi for sure! Though, they are still mostly afraid to say the word “bisexual” on TV now for some reason, so it really would have been a miracle if they would have said something like that back in the day.
Cause a woman being bisexual (or rather "straight" with an alluded parallel interest in women as well) has always been a common straight man's fetish. So it is not as "shocking" as a guy being gay.
For me the joke is always on Chandler's fear about "looking gay" whilst everybody around him is cool with it. He is the joke, not being gay but the fear of being percieved as one.
Great point! (As a hetero-guy) I remember watching this show as a teen, and for me the fear was not 'being' gay, but others treating me poorly because they thought I was.
Every time I see this kind of video analyzing friends they seem to not get the humor of friends. I've seen a video saying the show was homophobic because of the episode where a guy pretending to be gay to fit in with other ice skaters has to come out as straight to pheobe or episodes where the characters aren't comfortable with something being gay. The joke is the way they react and their insecurity, not the gayness.
Hetero men who aren’t homophobic still don’t want to be perceived as gay because they don’t want women to think they’re gay. Correct me if I’m wrong, but that’s the fear, I think.
@@amuro9624 Eh, I dunno, maybe it was because I was in the closet at the time but those jokes just made me uncomfortable. Like, being afraid of being thought of as gay was my waking nightmare so it really wasn't that funny to me.
Why do you youtubers always talk about "hidden" LGBTQA+ people in series? Aren't the new series full of LGBTQA+ enough for you? Why are you youtubers spoiling the past series/movies?
I've always seen his character as a way to say it's OK to not be the manliest guy in the room. This is actually a recurring theme in friends. The 3 guys of the group often try to play a role dictated by unwritten rules of masculinity and always realize it's silly and unnecessary.
Yeah, but does the show EVER treat it as ok that they fail at it or they failing at it is always the entire joke, at their expense, and not the weird standards they are pressed against? I don't really remember the gender roles themselves being treated as a joke, just the failure to adhere to it.
@@edisonlima4647 they usually go with a "who cares" kind of attitude instead of being like those 80's sitcom where one guy would sit down next to another to explain the morale of that episode. They usually let you figure it out on yourself instead of being condescending and trying to tell you what to think. Like there's an episode where Ross is weirded out by a male nanny who he deemed to emotional or feminine for a man and in the whole episode Ross is clearly the bad guy. You don't need a conclusion that shows him stop acting that way because it's clear from the beginning that he is wrong for acting that way. You don't always need the characters in the show to understand the message of the show. It seems like people are too focused on the idea that a show should set an example with its main characters but if they did that you wod always have episodes where the main characters become more "virtuous" and let go all of their flaws which would lead to a boring show. Most classics of littérature tell their message by showing the main character do the wrong thing and suffering the consequences in a tragic way. Just like the characters of friends always try to hold themselves to unnecessarily high standards and fail. There's an episode where chandler and Rachel steal a cheese cake, it's obviously bad but they don't realize it's bad and suddenly decide to become better people. The episode ends with both of them eating a cheese cake on the floor because that's how far they fell. That's the way friends deal with morality.
I loved that's he's a straight guy in touch with his feminine energy. He loved musicals, dressed very preppy, was very sensitive, and I could go on and on. I thought they wrote the Chandler character perfectly. I LOVE all of the friends but Chandler was special (but then I guess I could say that about all of them. I have different opinions on different days).
I thought the idea was not about being gay but about challenging masculinity. The Chandler character seemed like a neurotic preppy child of wealth privilege who was insecure about his manhood and was jealous of Joey type street cred. The jokes were about gender expectations being perceived as sexual orientation. They were being accidentally sophisticated. He did give off a slight bi if I'm drunk vibe though.
As for Ross's ex-wife, Carol, and her relationship: I thought on the one hand, it was groundbreaking for American TV that the lesbian couple was sensitively handled - they were nurturing and confident in their relationship - but even though Ross was one (understandably) upset by his breakup, still, the punchline of every conversation about this was, "They're lesbians."
I wouldn't say that them being lesbians was the punchline. The punchline was Ross being bothered by their lesbianism. That's what people don't get about this show. The "gay jokes" were not gay jokes at all, they were homophobia jokes.
The punchline was also, very often, that Ross' ex leaving him for a woman is not about her, but, like his crackling voice and awkwardness, a sign of his inadequacy as a man, which is a jump that comes with its own bagage of problems... Her sexuality, quite often, being there to ridicule Ross as inadequate as a man, because he "lost his wife to a woman (cue pre-recorded laughs)" is not an isolated incident, though. In fact, the show had quite an obsession with "being man enough". And not in a "let's discuss it" way, but in a "let's laugh at men who fail at it" way.
I don't know if it's because I only watched Friends about a couple years ago when I was 17-18 but I HATED Ross, he was misogynistic and homophobic, idk , either way the jokes were usually to his homophobia and not so much the fact that Carol and Susan were a lesbian couple
When I watched the show, I never really assumed Chandler was gay/bi. I just thought he was a slightly less masculine straight guy. On the other hand, I always had a feeling that Joey could be gay/bi. I know, unpopular. But he never seemed to have a problem with kissing guys (like he kissed Chandler on New Year’s, he wanted to kiss all the guys for practice for a role or something and when Ross kissed him, he said it was a good kiss and how Rachel was a lucky girl). And his nap with Ross?? I mean he was the one who wanted to do it again. I know Joey is known for being the most masculine guy out of the three but I never felt like this. I mean there were SO many moments where he wasn’t afraid of being more feminine like him and his ‘man’s bag’, wasn’t afraid to admit that he cries at sad movies, didn’t have a problem putting on women’s underwear and liked it, when the real estate lady assumed him and Chandler were a couple and Chandler denied it, he was so offended and was like ‘what I’m not good enough for you?’ or when he lived with that Janine girl for a while, Chandler yelled at him and made fun of him for having ‘girly’ decorations in his place so he got rid of them by putting them all in his room… I mean ?? There are so many instances of him being more feminine or straight up okay with kissing guys. Nobody seems to notice this only because he gets the most girls… My theory is that he was bi/gay and realized at some point during the show but decided not to come out to his friends in fear that they would judge him (especially Chandler and Ross).
Or maybe the point the writers were making was that Joey was so relaxed about his sexuality as a heterosexual man that he wasn’t worried about how people perceived him. Much was also made of Joey being Italian. And Mediterranean cultures tend to be much more relaxed about men being physically affectionate with other men, without it being about sex. That’s the way I always interpreted Joey’s behaviour. He was just more comfortable expressing his affection towards people he was fond of, without getting hung up about how others might interpret what that ‘says’ about him. Ross and Chandler were much more neurotic in that regard.
Being bi really suits him, but I dont think he would be gay. Did you really consider, that being confident and not feeling shame about doing some "girly" things is gay? Thats where all the restrictions for men come from. Joey is an excellent representation of a non-toxic heterosexuality.
I'm surprised you didn't talk about Phoebe at all, I think she made a much more interesting case for a bi/pansexual character. It comes up in various occasions and it's not treated as a very special episode either.
For me it was always a joke of internalized homophobia. Like it’s not funny that he’s gay, it’s funny that he wants to present himself as straight and it really bothers him to be seen as gay, yet everyone thinks he can be gay
Yeah I assume at the time the point of most jokes was meant to be “lol they think he’s gay” (and some of the jokes still read like that). But for a lot of them, especially in hindsight it reads more as “lol look at how foolish he looks being desperate not to appear gay”. And a lot of that easily translates to a gay/bi panic reading as well, paradoxically making the characters seem even more gay. And in my experience, nowadays the people who make the most gay jokes are gay people themselves.
@@anony-missy I don't think it was a coincidence, that the male character least concerned with how masculine he presented himself was also the one who most girls found attractive. Joey repeatedly is shown to have far easier with showing affection towards his male friends (as well as having no issue with kissing them).
Why do you youtubers always talk about "hidden" LGBTQA+ people in series? Aren't the new series full of LGBTQA+ enough for you? Why are you youtubers spoiling the past series/movies?
I have this weird love-hate relationship with this show due to how badly some of the stuff has aged in it, queer or not. But my favourite scene has to be the one Chandler and Monika attend his dad's drag show to invite him to their wedding. Despite the obvious joke "Kathleen Turner obviously is a woman pretending to be an old gay man in drag", the moment Chandler invites him and he accepts is so heartwarming. Complete silence from the studio audience, both characters are moved to almost tears and until the next gag with the drag show the whole family acceptance situation not being treated as another gay joke. Really powerful moment.
Great video. Friends was a weird mixture of problematic content but also some stuff that pushed the boundaries. I used to love Susan and her sarcastic relationship with Ross. Ross: "You guys sure do have a lot of books about being a lesbian." Susan: "Well, you have to take a course. Otherwise they don't let you do it."
Sorry to ask but what problematic content was in the show? It's been a few years since I've last watched and I can't really think of anything bad. I would love to hear what you think though!
@@mylifeismadness5465 If I go full "queer reading" with them, Chandler is _way_ more gay than bi, and Phoebe is _so_ bi I consider her the most closeted of the bunch.
Why do you youtubers always talk about "hidden" LGBTQA+ people in series? Aren't the new series full of LGBTQA+ enough for you? Why are you youtubers spoiling the past series/movies?
As a young teen gay boy growing up down south in the mid nineties, episode 8 of friends was a life changing moment. They had actually shown a guy being offered a date with another man, like it was nothing abnormal at all. This was very different from my experience growing up. Keep up the great work!
Just over a decade ago I worked with a director named Craig Rhyne in NC who had been hired out of New York. I was never allowed to watch “Friends” in my uber conservative upbringing so I mentioned after a rehearsal one night that I was watching the series through on DVD for the first time. He said “well did you know that I’m Chandler?” He registered my confused look acknowledging that no, he wasn’t Matthew Perry. But he was friends with Marta Kauffman and David Crane. And they had been working on this pilot and one night in 1994 their friend group were all out and they said “hey, this Thursday make sure you guys all tune in!” So they did, and to his absolute shock they had taken their ACTUAL GROUP OF FRIENDS and turned them all into characters in the show. And it was pretty obvious who everyone was. As it so happened, Craig was the basis for Chandler’s character. AND Craig IS actually gay. I believe he was out by ‘94 and all his friends would have known that. But I think to tone it down for a major network they just toyed with the idea of Chandler being gay and hinted at it before leaving that behind to write more straight romances into the show.
@Rene Ramirez About Chandlers Father (who was actually his mother) the shows mishandling of a character that would now clearly be identified as a trans woman was kind of a katastrophe. I mean, they tried I guess and the times were different, but oh god.
I loved Chandler's lack of "hyper masculinity". Not all straight guys are your stereotypical bro's. It's great to have a character who's like most straight men that I know.
theres this one scene where ross says " chandler kissed a guy" and chandler said " it was a very pretty guy" where they reveal stuff about each other in front of monica
He thought it was a woman. The same thing happened to Joey and no one calls him gay, even tho he has tons of feminine moments, possibly more than Chandler
Chandler kissed a (very pretty) man dressed as a woman, Joey dated a trans woman for a while, but broke up with her because he didn't like her Adam's apple.
@@Johnnysmithy24 and nobody made fun of Joey because Joey was secure of his sexuality. He had no problem in kissing men for his job, and even tried kissing his friends to get more relaxed during the tests. He never considered "people will think I'm gay", he didn't care. He even tried to kiss Monica's boyfriend. He also had no problem in telling Ross he wanted to nap together, since it was the best nap of his life. Ross and Chandler are the ones terrified anyone think they are gay, because they are insecure about themselves. So those are the ones suffering from "haha, you look gay" jokes.
As a lesbian, Carol and Susan were (and still kinda are) so important to me. They were an example of lesbian motherhood, as settled adults with normal lives. I know it might be kind of dumb to get so much comfort out of a sitcom couple, but I can't really think of any other adult lesbian couples on TV who are portrayed in a similar manner. If you haven't already, I'd love it if you covered The One With The Lesbian Wedding!!
They were an example of cheaters is what they were, who went overlooked because of being lesbians. No one points out the fact that she cheated on Ross regardless of her sexual orientation, but everyone calls Ross a cheater
I liked that aspect of his character. I'm straight, but can be very effeminate. it was great to know why people thought I was gay, and why I was so oblivious about myself. It also showed that it was okay to be like that.
OK? It's FANTASTIC! A lot of women are attracted to that kind of man. Women want a man who can be like a best friend x 1,000. I am 66 years old. Every man I have ever been attracted to, ever slept with, ever had a relationship with has been "not as traditionally masculine" as some people seem to expect. I've been a very happy woman because I had men in my life who were best friends as well as great lovers.
Way back when I was in the closet to even myself, I remarked that I related to Chandler a lot, and another teenager said, "So you're gay?" That alone was enough to shame me out of even watching FRIENDS for literal years. Huh. I had issues.
@@philliplozano7587 I can agree with the lack of ethnic diversity. It was set in New York, yet there was hardly any non-white people in the show. Apart from one of Ross' girlfriends and a black woman who I now remember was Ross' girlfriend, because she was a scientist. It seems that Ross was the only character to bring any racial diversity into the show.
There was another channel that had a pretty good argument that Chandler was basically Joey's platonic sugar daddy. Because logically speaking if you broke down the cost of living for the two of them living in that apartment, Chandler had to have been paying for literally everything for most of the show. Including Joey's medical bills.
i mean they even talk about it in a few of the episodes of friends. chandler does pay for everything LOL. and one episode joey wants to pay him all back and after adding it all up , realizes thats impossible xD
The cuddling episode where Joey and Ross cuddle might be interesting in that male-male intimacy is viewed as inherently gay and "weird," if not fully "wrong."
@@ZoeAlleyne Right! The show is very contradictory about masculinity and physical touch. Sometimes Ross, Chandler, and Joey are comfortable with it, and other times they get homophobic or toxically masculine. Probably just inconsistent writing
@ZoeAlleyne yeah, however, it is different. Most of chandler and joey moments are friendly hugs. Ross sleeping on Joey's chest is something that resembles romantic relationships which is why it was so weird for them and for the rest of the group.
friends has a lot of male intimacy but then they have to act all awkward about it. i like gumball because it shows male intimacy and they never do the awkwardness.
Because if a male character starts to get involved with a woman and then gets involved with a man, it irritates the straight audience who say that the character has been changed. If the character starts to get involved with a man and then gets involved with a woman, it irritates the gay audience who say it was straightwashing.
It's something you never saw then, yes. You see it a tiny bit more now, but some shows do a good job of it (Madam Secretary) and some shows just exploit it as a path to make more romantic/sexual pairings (Grey's, The Good Wife), as if all bi individuals were all sex, all the time.
As a small child watching Friends I never once got a gay vibe off of Chandler because he had a snooty swagger I associated with straight men - like, I don't think of 'tidy and erudite' as a gay thing, I think of it as a social class thing. But if you'd told me he and Joey were dating I might've believed that - they have better chemistry than Chandler ever did with any of the female characters.
If this were on cable TV today, maybe they could have done something with Phoebe's pansexuality that could have been really cool. It was too soon in the '90s. The lesbian wedding was a risk then.
@@lilacdreams5966 I always assumed she was bi/pan after that one episode where she got mesmerised by ross's cousin like the other guys and thought "ask her out, she's not your cousin!"
correct me if i'm wrong, but i think phoebe waz only ever hinted az bizexual at bezt becauze there were only two genderz in the zhow. no tranzgenderz etc...
I didn't take his reaction as homophobic. Just heightened for comic effect. Other people's interpretations may vary, of course. As for my reaction, I find it amusing that some people have such narrow ideas of what a straight male might be like that as soon as you start talking about musical theatre or Dorothy Parker they make assumptions about your sexuality.
@@mattymariah Excuse me, who died and made you Queen? I didn't know you have a mandate from the gay community to 1- Speak for the entire community 2- Decide what is and what is not homophobic 3- Even worst to discredit and to put down other people's life experiences while doing it Get a grip. Nothing the dude said was homophobic.
@@mattymariah Then maybe YOU should learn to read. I never said that Friends do not have homophobic jokes, I said that nothing the other guy said was homophobic and yet you jumped on his throat for nothing. YOU can have YOUR OPINION to what is good and what is acceptable but don't you think for a second you are entitled to talk for everyone else. As a child of the 80's, I will said that Friends was also ground breaking in addressing stuff that was not common in television, despite being clumsy most of time and even homophobic sometimes. I hope you are young and going to the "activist phase" but sooner or later you'll realize the putting down people who mean you no harm is not the way to go. The other guy made a harmless comment you are not entitled to put him down for it, much less speaking for everyone else. Bye.
@@mattymariah Right he said he identified with a character who is always classed as gay by OTHER people because of THEIR prejudice (example: liking theater makes you gay; dressing nicely makes you gay) and you decided to antagonize him for no reason. I hope you learn to be wiser. This is not the way to go. Bye.
To me, Chandler’s definitely still bi, you can be bi and marry someone of the opposite sex, so I’m just gonna take the early season hints as my personal headcanon
I agree. I think if the show were written today, Chandler would be canonically bi. :) I don’t think the concept of bisexuality or pansexuality was well understood by most people in the 90’s.
@@isabelberger9441 I think you're right. There was also instances of lesbian separationism in the 80s and 90s that shunned bisexual women in the name of feminism. It's a bit skewed and wobbly but there was definitely a lot of biphobia back then. Even from this show through to the early 2000s, there is an underlying belief in a lot of cultures that bisexual people are just 'in denial' - I have literally heard this out loud and it often inhibits my comfort with coming out to people as bisexual myself.
@@zoegranville7607 Couldn’t agree more, people always expect a second coming out of “I’m a lesbian” or “I’m actually straight in the end” like??? That’s not all there is?
Also, Phoebe's character is definitely bi -- she has a voiceover in the end credits sequence of S7:E19 "The One with Ross and Monica's Cousin" where she's stunned into silence by the titular cousin's gorgeousness. Her internal monologue goes: "Say something. Say anything. Ask her out-- she's not *your* cousin"
@@rgs8970 And of course, there was the (speaking to Joey) "I know I had crushes on all of you when I first met you. Well, except for Chandler and Ross." And I guess "Just wanted to see what all the fuss was about." Oh, and "Are you kidding?? that woman has the nose of a _bloodhound._ ...and the breasts of a Greek goddess..."
I take issue with Carole and Susan being a lovely lesbian couple. They were rude and condescending and treated Ross like he needed to get over the fact that his wife left him, his life had been uprooted, and he was now expected to raise his son with his ex’s new spouse. Susan was worse about it, but Carole had her moments too. But also, in all the jokes you showed during Chandler’s is-he-gay episode, I don’t think the punchline wasn’t “wouldn’t it be funny if he was gay” the punchline was “people think he’s gay and he’s expressly said otherwise”. The same joke would apply to a gay man whose friends and family keep trying to set him up with women despite his repeated attempts to tell them he’s not interested. Ignorance is comical.
I think the joke was more about how these women living in Manhattan in the 90s find it difficult to meet eligible men, and that yet another straight guy turns out to be gay. That’s the joke. It’s more about the women’s disappointment in potentially missing out on an eligible single man. Those kinds of jokes were very common in the 90s. There was a man shortage, and the joke was that every good looking, in shape, well dressed, funny man was gay.
I was only a preteen when Friends ended so I didn’t know much of the innuendos and nuance until several years later. I didn’t even realize how gay Chandler seemed, but perhaps it was the difference of when I grew up. Chandler to guys my age doesn’t seem all that gay. He’s weird, yes, but Chandler in 2020 would be a pretty typical straight guy I think.
Yeah, I was in early adulthood when the show ended, so I understood the sexual innuendos, but I still don’t see how Chandler seemed gay. He didn’t even seem particularly feminine.
@@TracymmoI think for them he was a little too campy. Guys from their generation I think were generally reserved emotionally while he is very expressive.
Why do you youtubers always talk about "hidden" LGBTQA+ people in series? Aren't the new series full of LGBTQA+ enough for you? Why are you youtubers spoiling the past series/movies?
Yeah, bisexual people can marry people of the opposite gender and still be bi! Chandler was a bisexual man with a preference more skewed towards women and there’s not wrong with it
Also somewhat more relevant, as a young unaware trans child in the Ace Ventura 90s, his line about wanting to be a lesbian is SEARED into my mind forever.
i agree it wouldve been a big deal if a main character on friends was gay, but friends was still very progressive (not only for the cute lesbian wedding), having chandler be so funny and sarcastic and smart and well dressed and straight was also huge, because it went against the stereotype that any well-dressed funny and sassy man is 100% gay
As a foppish and flamboyant man, Chandler was usually who I explained myself being like as many assumed I was gay. He honestly helped me through a lot of my struggles in his similar struggles with people assuming through stereotyping. I've been set up on a lot of blind dates with disappointed guys. Dates were fun though.
I just think he was afraid to turn out “like his father” (because he may have had a lot of people laughing about that when he was young, and his mum seemed to be upset by that too causing their divorce) So he was very insecure about all his “feminine moves” or being loving with his male friends or male in general. As I read in others comments, he’s just himself and as all men he has a part of femininity and that’s great that friends is showing this without making him gay !
After watching Hbomberguy absolutely destroy James Somerton, I was pretty crushed because he had recently become a source of me watching and getting you know, informative videos about this subject and somewhat related queer issues such as coding and baiting, inclusion, representation and just hearing someone talk about interesting subjects and way I engaged with. Having that ripped away from me because well, he was an absolutely terrible person and presumably still is, that sucked. But at the end of his video, HBombs listed several other channels to check out including yours; not only was this video a worthwhile endeavor for me, one I greatly enjoyed, but it made me glad I subscribed to you and I also noticed that I remember seeing a couple of your thumbnails being suggested to me recently, which I added to my Watch Later. It felt great being recommended a channel by someone else I trust as a content creator, but it felt equally great having milked my algorithm enough to let me stumble onto you naturally at the same time. As I said, I enjoyed this video and I look forward to watching the rest of your content and more to come.
I think a lot of the joke of Chandler comes back to how insecure he is about his heterosexuality, as opposed to just "ur gay lol," though I can definitely understand that the average viewer is probably laughing because "ur gay lol"
Idk, it has been sometime since I last watch the show but, for what I recall, for most of the run of this joke, his insecurity doens't ever come off as something spontaneous, but always as something that, whenever he tries to find a girlfriend, is put there as an unsurmountable road block. He is not perceived as kinda gay, but let's move on. He is perceived as gay, thusly he will not get the woman he is going after and will be alone, cue everyone laughing at him. In that particular fictional characterization, I might say I kinda understand him wanting to reassert his straightness, since the show presents him being perceived as gay as something that is often and only affecting him negatively.
Makes total sense that he is insecure about his sexuality when he had a trans for a father and an erotic symbol for a mother, not having the “man and woman” parents image as a child for a reference, growing up awkward using humor as a defense mechanism, going to an all boys high school, not being macho enough, not being able to get girls, and having people think he is gay. I can’t blame the guy for being insecure and scared of that thought. I really believe he is just deeply disturbed straight man who can’t catch a break.
The "sometimes I wish I was a lesbian" line actually plays very well to straight males. The humor comes from the dogged fascination that straight males have (or at least had in that era) for girl-girl porn. Friends was very comfortable with their characters having sex lives. This made for good stories and good jokes. The "sometimes" joke was one of them. It's not all that funny for him to say "sometimes I wish I was female" (the "he's gay" interpretation), but it is funny for him to mess up saying "sometimes I wish I could be in those incredibly hot porn shoots with two girls" in a way that makes it sound like he wants to change genders, in our then still very masculinity-protective mainstream culture.
In high school I used to joke with my band friends about being a lesbian because I often related more to the women in the group than the guys but assumed I was cis because I liked girls... but that was like a decade before I came out as trans because I hadn't really discovered/understood what being trans was.
@@Galiant2010 I'm glad that a growing proportion of society is more and more aware that these private definitions of self are not matters of morality, but of innate self, and the only caring position anyone can have is to accept each other on the basis of our hearts, and not on our private preferences.
Could you compare this to the presentation of raj in the Big Bang Theory? The ‘write it gay, play it straight’ trope is something I’m never gonna be able to unsee
Yes! Raj and Howard even have a scene near the end of the series where they talk about what they would be like as a couple. Not to mention Raj's romantic finale of the series is Howard being the one who understands Raj's love of romance movies and makes a big gesture to him at an airport. If they hadn't hammered in Howard and Bernadette so much I'd imagine a future where Raj became very happy married to a guy, maybe Howard, the least of which being that he'd be allowed to indulge his feminine side without worrying about how it effects his chances in getting a date.
@@BlasterzHD sadly... When I was watching the show though, I honest-to-God thought he was a closet bisexual. I was convinced they were going to do a story arc with him where he finds out that's a thing, proceeds to hate on it so much that the others launch an investigation into why Raj suddenly cares so much, and it ends with him "accidentally" kissing some guy at a toga party. He is mortified, runs, only to end up cornered by the other main cast members. They get him to confess what happened, then Leonard is like "I thought you didn't hold with all that stuff" and Raj is like "I just hate myself". Cue the girls trying to hug him, Leonard not understanding, and Sheldon trying to explain why suicide is a bad idea. Raj runs back to the party, trailing his now ruined toga-thing, and the episode ends as he arrives at the frat house at the same time as the ambulance because turned out that the guy he kissed was extremely drunk. But looking back on it, this could never have happened. The writers on that show simply weren't cultured or imaginative enough. See, the joke here isn't "lol Raj is queer", it's "lol Raj's life is now a Bollywood movie". Also a meta-joke about how the show purports to be a slice of life comedy but the characters live lives that are decidedly not ordinary (there are at least a few times Sheldon hacks the gov't).
I have never thought Chandler was gay and I never understood when people say 'he had a gay vibe'. Maybe because Chandler is my type and he was always my favourite character. I think it was always more about how guys are so insecure (generally) that they are afraid someone would think they're gay and it attacks their ego and masculinity.
chandler not being gay is a definite loss to make such an impact on pop culture, that said i think the chandler we got is such an incredible and positive depiction of a straight dude, especially in comparison to ross and earlier seasons joey. and i think he’s one of the few male sitcom characters from the 90s/00s (again, unlike ross and joey) that has stood the test of time to a decent extent.
Personally, when I watched this as a newly out teen in the nineties, I always assumed that Joey was the (closeted) gay one. Here's my case: So before the show starts, he thinks being gay or bi is no big deal, but then the events of the first half of the first season happen and his best friend (Chandler) makes such a huge deal about the idea that people might think he could be gay, that Joey stays in the closet, for the whole show. I thought that because it seemed the answer the confusion I had then that Joey always TALKED about dating and hooking up with women, but unlike every other cast member, you so rarely ever SAW any of them. The women Joey was with were almost always off-camera, just left, or he and her had no visible chemistry. It always seemed so convenient, like the old Canadian Girlfriend thing. I figured that the other people on the show weren't going to bring it up after how much of a big deal chandler made about being thought of as gay, so they let it go, even after everyone on the show was on-screen dating and coupling up and joey was mostly the spinster of the group. I love that theory, feel free to make it a video if you are interested. In my head, the finale where he moves to the west coast is so he could finally come out of the closet.
Why do you youtubers always talk about "hidden" LGBTQA+ people in series? Aren't the new series full of LGBTQA+ enough for you? Why are you youtubers spoiling the past series/movies?
@@TedEhioghae hey quick question friend, do you think LGBT people in media ruins them? What does that say about you. If not, why did you phrase your comment like that? Just some food for thought.
@@TedEhioghae you've been replying this on a lot of comments, huh? i think you're the snowflake if you're taking the time to copy and paste your blatantly homophobic comment because you can't handle analysis of a piece of media
Scully was a lesbian until the writers caved in to all the Mulder / Scully shipping. Watch the first two seasons and tell me she's not at least bi (but seriously, compare the barest-of-tolerance she displays for the guy she tries to date vs the eagerness with which she checks that other lady for ice-parasites). Everyone wanted to have the groundbreaking gay main character back then, but nobody really had the guts.
What really strikes me is that is all these cases where whoever was actually guiding a show went "Naw" when given perfectly good opportunities. There were definitely people who really wanted groundbreaking gay characters, but it doesn't seem like many of them were positions to makes that happen.
Scully was always intended to be a potential/slow burn love interest for Mulder. Pamela Anderson was considered for the role before Gillian because they wanted a famous sexy lady so people would ship her with Mulder. At least that's what Wikipedia says. (I imagine that version would have been even goofier and canceled almost immediately.) It just seems like they caved because they slowed it down so much, but they always had it in mind.
Why do you youtubers always talk about "hidden" LGBTQA+ people in series? Aren't the new series full of LGBTQA+ enough for you? Why are you youtubers spoiling the past series/movies?
I don't really think the joke was that people think Chandler is gay, the joke was that people thought this in the worst possible times. Like when Chandler is hitting on two chicks and then Ross comes over and says it's okay that Chandler is gay, thus messing up his chances with the girls.
That's the way it always came across to me. Like he's already always struggling to get dates and then this misunderstanding keeps making it even harder for him.
Hey, don't forget transphobic as well, depending on whether you interpret Chandler's dad as a cis drag queen or a trans woman (as I've seen a RU-vid video put it, it's not clear if the writers themselves actually understood the difference). But yeah. I like "Friends" quite a bit even to this day, but it's got a strong streak of homophobia going throughout almost all of its run. It's very uncomfortable to watch sometimes.
I disagree, they never make jokes at the expense of gays, it's always at the expense of the straight who has trouble accepting gays. Starting with Chandler, one of his main arc is totally accepting his drag queen father. None of the characters are homophobic in any way, but they do do the stereotypical jokes, to defuse them and show how ridiculous they are.
@@feandil666 feel free to disagree, there's plenty of jokes where the joke seems to be "gay people exist". Reading your comment, I feel like you and I watched a very different show...
@@feandil666 you’re trying to downplay how hurtful this show is to the LGBTQ+ community because for some reason you Stan it. If you’re not part of the LGBTQ+ community, you really aren’t at depth to recognize homophobia or transphobia, both things this show really is.
imo chandler “seeming gay” but being straight works better as a way of asking the question of “what does it mean to seem gay?” the best way it could have been improved would be to have a very “straight-seeming” character actually be revealed to be gay
I like the idea that the character's sexuality wasn't important to his personality, so when they found a straight actor who fit the role, they just decided the character would be straight and it wouldn't affect how he was written. I definitely think for the time the show came out, it was productive to show that personality and sexuality don't need to be connected based on the stereotypes of the era. I really liked the nuanced takes in this video! I feel like I see so many young straight saviors these days complaining about queer representation in Friends in vague, sweeping statements. This was refreshing to watch :)
What about the episode with the quit-smoking tapes that chandler gets to listen as he falls asleep? “ You’re a strong, confident woman who does not need to smoke”
Why do you youtubers always talk about "hidden" LGBTQA+ people in series? Aren't the new series full of LGBTQA+ enough for you? Why are you youtubers spoiling the past series/movies?
Chandler is just incredibly insecure because of his mother and father, and he doesnt feel overtly masculine so they all joke about it and include it in the show cause its relatable to other men who arent like Joey or Ross
Ross is kinda in the same boat, cause when he was a kid he used to dress like a girl and play house (usually by himself) and then in high school he seems to overcompensate with a bushy moustache. Then when he has Ben, he doesn't want him playing with Barbies as if he's scared he'll end up bullied cause of his feminine interests.
Actually remember watching that flashback episode when it aired, where Monica's wearing the towel and Chandler hugs her saying like "you're my best friend and the most beautiful woman I've ever met in real life" or whatever (it's been a while) thinking "man it sucks that these two can't just be together... but now he's with Janice." --- flash forward a season or two...
Why is it that every time someone talks about Friends, the first thing they bring up is the implausibly large apartment? It was Monica's grandmother's rent-controlled apartment that she was subletting, they explain it in like the first episode, can we finally just let it go?
YES! EXACTLY! Thank you! I'm constantly thinking this when people talk about the apartment! This and other stuff too, it's gotten to be some sort of trend to point out plot holes in Friends that were never actually there but then they spread like wildfire!
I'm pretty sure the "subletting" was just what Monica said to people. I think they actually said that their grandma had died but that they were illegally withholding that information in order to keep the low cost of rent and Monica simply told the landlord that she had left and was subletting to her.
There's also that episode where Phoebe's ice skater friend comes out as straight, just not into her, which is weirdly making a serious coming out story that's only funny because it's reversed.
0:16 I’m reminded of a comic strip (I think it was Doonesbury) in which a white guy had a conversation with his black friend. The white man wished he were black, at which his incredulous friend wanted to know why. The white man replied that black people had cool accessories, like bad hats, down jackets and cool sneakers. What did white people have? To which his friend snapped that white people had the companies that made bad hats, down jackets and cool sneakers. Wanting to be a lesbian seems to have a similar warped view.
Honestly as a bi girl Chandler was incredibly helpful to having casual representation for my mom to see and understand my feelings while closeted, even if never confirmed it was still nice.
Why do you youtubers always talk about "hidden" LGBTQA+ people in series? Aren't the new series full of LGBTQA+ enough for you? Why are you youtubers spoiling the past series/movies?
@@TedEhioghae I don’t see how its spoiling anything. I thought the video was very informative. One of the co-creators of Friends is gay and thought about the possibility of Chandler being gay. Ultimately, he wasn’t but given the way he was written, Lisa Kudrow herself (Phoebe on the show) thought that Chandler was, as did many newspapers in the 90s.
@@TedEhioghae Specifically to spite you Ted. It's all one big conspiracy to ruin your childhood by letting you know how much gay was all around you that you just never noticed.
@@TedEhioghae The real question is why did you reply to someone who is clearly not a RU-vidr (no public videos on their channel) and proceed to say "you youtubers" a full twice?
3:24 - Sorry to be off-topic, but am I the only one distracted by the utensils they're using with Chinese takeout? They're chopsticks on one end and forks and spoons on the other. Monica is the only one using the chopstick end. I have never seen that before, and I can't believe it didn't catch on.
It's so interesting, because with the way the show "wrote him gay, played him straight," his relationship with Monica, but the continuation of gay jokes even after his marriage - the text supports the idea that Chandler is bi (not that he HAS to be bi, but that the show gives enough evidence to support this reading).
I never thought of Chandler as gay. He seemed the relatable guy that was unable to close like Joey. Especially when he was trapped in the ATM with the model. That was season 1. At that point it seems they were committed to him being straight. But I could be wrong.
Often before people came out they would try to pass as straight because that's what they thought they were, because that's how they thought they had to be. Which is why lots of gay people have been in hetero relationships. Some could even love who they're dating and then just think they were asexual when they realize they aren't sexually attracted to the opposite gender, not realizing that their sexual attraction was to the same gender. Kind of like how I'm AMAB. The first time I ever told someone I wished I was a girl was when I was in kindergarten. But at the time I had absolutely no idea what "transgender" meant, or that it even existed. I lived the first two decades of my life as a guy because I thought that's what I had to do. Then in college I took a psych class and we studied "Chaz Bono's sex change". Fortunately it was in a trans positive light, but that was the first time I had ever been exposed to the concept. I was fascinated for a reason I couldn't explain at the time. I went (to my religiously conservative) home and brought this fascinating concept up to my parents over dinner and my dad launched into an annoyed speech about how one of his co-workers was a "guy that thought he was a girl". Seeing my parents reaction caused me to drop my interest in the subject after we moved on in the psych class and had me believing that "Sex change people are crazy men in dresses". A few years after that I finally managed to get myself to see a therapist. Something I had wanted but my parents refused to let me do because they thought the subject was hogwash. But I had finally gotten my own insurance. My therapist suggested DBT to me, a group therapy. While there I met a girl who was really nice and pretty. Then over the next couple weeks, through the issues she'd talk about, I realized she was trans. It was only then that the thought occurred to me that I might be, too. Seeing someone so normal. That if she hadn't talked about her struggles I never would've realized she was trans based on anything else. This is when I realized that trans =/= "crazy men in dresses". But even then it took me weeks of researching what it meant to be transgender before I finally accepted it. Personal life rant aside... Chandler's attraction to women was never a doubt in my mind. But I did question his denial of being attracted to men.
Why do you youtubers always talk about "hidden" LGBTQA+ people in series? Aren't the new series full of LGBTQA+ enough for you? Why are you youtubers spoiling the past series/movies?
That's exactly what did happen. It's been confirmed through interviews. In fact, his straightness is a retcon, because it wasn't decided he'd be straight until after the pilot episode. It's the entire reason his character is so effeminate.
If I were hanging around with that group and someone told me one of them was gay, Joey would've been my 1st guess. I knew someone once who declared himself gay, after years of overcompensation, that included lots of heterosexual conquests.
And there are also many men with a long history of 'sexual conquests' who never come out at all, because they are actually straight. They just happen to be hardcore womanizers / seducers.
As a bisexual person who’s favourite friends character is Chandler I do head canon him as bisexual and I think if the show was made in more modern times he would be canonically bi. I always thought he has flirty moments with some guys in the show, especially some of the guys he worked with. However him and Monica are an amazing couple and so refreshing for the fact that their relationship was so healthy and positive. Chandler being confirmed as bi would help so much to destigmatise bisexuality, especially for bi men who are basically assumed to be gay and faking their attraction to women.
I wholeheartedly agree. The more I think of Chandler, the more he comes across as bi. Someone who has experimented with men in his earlier days but now occasionally acknowledges cis-male attractiveness in his adult straight life. Also he seems like someone who is sometimes upstaged by Joey (men's lipstick ad/handbag) and Ross (leather pants) in terms of queer plots.
The joke is that Chandler is insecure about his masculinity and many people assuming he's gay just adds to his anxiety. But to a British person he does not come across as remotely gay just charmingly vulnerable.
As a huge friends fan I saw him as bi and absolutely love him with Monica, If they werent so damn adorable together I'd be more bitter about him not being more bi/gay
I think him not saying "gaydar" was, itself, a joke. That whole thing of subverting expectations by not saying what everyone is expecting you to. Here's an example that I'm making up off the top of my head, because I can't think of a real one lol: Roses are red, violets are blue. I'm good at rhymes, can you rhyme also?
also like you know how when you talk to a straight to have to censor yourself which inevitably messes with your ability to be funny because 80% of your humour is just gay jokes? I think that's what happened. he knew gaydar was right their but he wasn't sure if he should say it to this weird guy so the joke is him swolliing the joke and just saying it like that I think lol.
I agree. But I always thought, based on the actor’s delivery, he was also talking down to Chandler - silly straight guy, I can’t even say “gaydar” to you so I’m just going to say “radar” because I can’t even be bothered. And because the whole audience knew about gaydar, it was kind of a wink to the audience that we’re smarter about this than Chandler.
I'm Black. I didn't know about Friends for a long time. Never seen an episode but now that its on my radar for a few years I know the characters names and a bit about their personalities. Instead, I know and still watch Living Single...the Black sitcom on which Friends is based. Those who have seen both says Living Single is funnier.
Chandler’s relationship with his father- well I always thought it caused him to hate the part of himself that is also gay, a clear repression. His relationship with Joey,,,, I mean,,,, I’ll always think him as either bi or extremely closeted gay. It wouldve been nice if he had the arc of realizing he is gay and exploring it, would have been revolutionary.
Why do you youtubers always talk about "hidden" LGBTQA+ people in series? Aren't the new series full of LGBTQA+ enough for you? Why are you youtubers spoiling the past series/movies?
I just think he was afraid to turn out “like his father” (because he may have had a lot of people laughing about that when he was young, and his mum seemed to be upset by that too causing their divorce) So he was very insecure about all his “feminine moves” or being loving with his male friends or male in general. As I read in others comments, he’s just himself and as all men he has a part of femininity and that’s great that friends is showing this without making him gay !
I mean Occam’s Razor: “be a dear and fetch my shall” sounds like something a “grandma” character would say, so the understanding is probably “him act like woman, so gay!”
Why do you youtubers always talk about "hidden" LGBTQA+ people in series? Aren't the new series full of LGBTQA+ enough for you? Why are you youtubers spoiling the past series/movies?
I could see that. He reminds me of Richie from the Static Shock. He's gay in the comic and in the cartoon, but they portray it in the cartoon as him showing a ton of interest in girls in order to hide it. At least, that's what I've read.
@@eliseo5416 That's what Dwayne McDuffie says was the intent with Richie's character in the cartoon (he even wears an earring on the "gay side"), but when I was a dumb-ass little kid I took everything at face value and assumed he was straight.
@my spirit digimon is rareraremon I'm not talking about the probability of them being gay here, I'm just saying that most of the relationships in Friends felt cartoonish and had no chemistry or real depth (Yes, I'm coming for Monica and Chandler too)... Chandler and Joey actually had chemistry and were two interesting characters that would work wonders TOGETHER. + Joey being a "lady's man" was becoming tiring, he could've kept the same personality but being attracted to men and settled with his longtime friend who he'd always been in love with. They make more sense together to me than Chandler and Monica.
Why do you youtubers always talk about "hidden" LGBTQA+ people in series? Aren't the new series full of LGBTQA+ enough for you? Why are you youtubers spoiling the past series/movies?
Coming back to this video in the wake of Matthew Perry's passing, and it's finally starting to hit me just how impactful his portrayal of Chandler has been on me. I'm a bisexual woman, but a big part of my personality can be traced back to Chandler, especially as a teen when I was going through my Friends phase. Far and away the best character on the show. He'll be missed
yeah .. that was for me one of the most 90s thing about freinds . even as a kid i noticed that every single gay joke was , "theyre gay , thats the joke " . my personal favourite for outright awkwardness was " Carol : dont work ross youll find the right woman, ross : thats easy for you to say , you already have!"
Why do you youtubers always talk about "hidden" LGBTQA+ people in series? Aren't the new series full of LGBTQA+ enough for you? Why are you youtubers spoiling the past series/movies?
@nnkkla90 please don’t try and diminish the hurt this caused many trans people including myself (no I’m not speaking for all trans people, but the ones I know and ones I know are offended by this). Her name is horrifically transphobic as is the whole situation surrounding her. It’s the writers. They chose to write in a trans woman and use her as the butt of every single joke. We are still fighting to be respected as members of society and, in many places, are struggling even to get equal treatment. Punching down at trans people wasn’t funny then, and it’s certainly not funny now. I’m allowed my opinion. I think this show is homophobic, transphobic, sexist trash. And it’s ok if you don’t. But that doesn’t mean I’m not entitled to my feelings. I am.
@@mattymariah I always thought that they were a drag queen and not a trans woman, I was super confused while rewatching it because I knew the difference but they used the terms interchangeably... sad that they couldnt give her an actual storyline
