Kurokumo Hong Lu is one of the most talked about IDs of all time. A constant topic in the community. I think he's got some problems, and they need to be discussed.
Thank you very much, been a part of the Project Moon sphere since my friend introduced me last year. I always had interest in making videos like these, but figured my effort would be wasted. I'm glad to be proven wrong for once lol.
Kurokumo clan from dialogue and Ruina part They don’t work well together as group You usually see one of them running by themselves into the battle instead of team battle Ryusho Honglu And rodya All of them don’t work with eachother One uses poises One uses bleed And one who doesn’t want bleed count
A fair point! I thought about that while scripting the video, and while it does make some sense...looking at Rodion and Ryoshu's kit, there is no antisynergy between them. In fact, since Rodion applies a good amount of bleed potency, they DO synergize. KK Hong Lu in particular is left out, and it's all because of one skill, which happens to be his best one. I personally don't like that design much, but if you like it for lore (or LOR) reasons, then that's completely fair!
Also we know that BL Outis and kurokumo Rodya have some kind of friendship, where Rodya even wanted to have lunch with Outis, so maybe kurokumo IDs are better with Blade lineage IDs?
That's the description of Blade Lineage, not Kurokumo Clan. Kurokumo Clan is under The Thumb so it's highly organized, and they should work well as a group.
this is genuinely the best edited limbus company video i've ever seen, good job, and yes, no matter what happens, KK Hong lu will always be cloud cutter.
his ID story is all about that he does what he wants in weird ways and his clanmates criticize him for it, but can't do anything about it because he brings results i mean he reverse grips his katana ffs
Nice video, nice to see people covering this kind of content. Limbus definitely has it's questionable moments and flaws but it's nice to see things like this covered in this kind of content. Another identity that I think is in a similar situation that might surprise some would be Rosespanner Rodya. Now she does have tremor synergy with other units, but honestly, tremor is such a bad status effect (along with almost all non-fragility status effects? maybe a potential idea to cover, because they need some serious help.) but she's still a great unit just because her potential damage is very high. I do wish they would make status effects and synergies better, but at the end of the day in an abnormality fight, why stack a status effect when you can bring raw unopposed damage and kill everything before status effects ever even become relevant. It's a tough issue to fix.
Consider The Following: Uptie II Kurokomo Hong Lu. No Cloudburst means more odds to roll Cloud Cutter, plus 3-6 instead of 3-7 is nicer for unopposed attacks. Most of the other upgrades from Uptie III and Uptie IV are not really worth it! Package him with an Aggro character or two and a high-speed character like a Cinq ID or a Heathcliff with Threadspin IV Bodysack... and you've got one hell of a recipe for enemy death.
While I agree that it should be the opposite (4+ bleed count to trigger the 4 coins), I also think it somewhat makes sense from a lore perspective. Hong Lu seems to be a rare case in the Kurokumo Clan of a... "tolerable" rule breaker, so it makes sense that he doesn't go well with his fellows, he is simply built different.
But none of it matters My mind on autopilot: Because we have Shikki46 fanart Video continues My mind: Oh.... Also Chef Gregor being used as a benchmark for low performance is a state of being and mood. Ngl he might have some cohesion with seven section ryoshu and her slash fragility, maybe w meursault ut4 too.
We getting at the point were tank builds are starting to became necessary if we are use the ids whoses clash power is less than ideal, but then again that might have been the intent all along, if one is not graced by the lucky gacha.
people were crucifying for saying cloud cutter is a terrible skill as a designwise and thank god people starts to see some glaring issues with some ids
When looking at him in a vacuum of the other kurokumo IDs, his kit makes them work better but they don’t make him work better. Like kurokumo Rodion, who would like a consistent source of bleed to get fat crits on s3, benefits from the quick build up hong-Lu provides. Ryoshu gets more damage for all the bleed he can provide as well. I don’t think he doesn’t play nice with the rest of that group, but they just don’t lift him up. Not necessarily bad design but not made in a way that’s equal reward for him and the others.
weirdly enough this god awful kit fits in perfectly well with the ID story KK hong lu does not listen to his superiors, he just does his own thing. while that may piss of those superiors, he's still effective not listening to superiors fits in with the anti-synergy with other kurokumo clan IDs the anger caused by not listening is reflected in the ID being wack as hell and the efficiency is reflected in the baller skill 2
Hm.. I like using full kurokumo set. Hong Lu skills are just meant to keep stacking. He also is really good with shredder passive, since he gains charges with each hit he lands. He is amazing at onesided attacks, which is why i think his speed is mid. If left for onesided attacks after shredder, he can climb to max charge stacks in moments, making him weirdly hard to kill slippery bastard. Mid speed... is weirdly situational, allowing for two part job depending on luck. If his speed rolls high, he can utilize his paralyze, and being first in queue helps to use that slap before rest of team piles haemorrhage on target. If he's slow, those one sided attacks will cut and ravage, until MFE is bleeding to death through protection stacks. I love my Hong Lu, as i love my Shi-cliff. I neednt meta - if i can make them shine in their rough beauty, its worth it.
Can you raise your volume for your future videos? 30% is usually loud for the most part on my end but I have to go 60% just to hear you properly... idk if that's just me but I wanna tell you since you make quality videos and I'd enjoy watching some limbussy vids myself
Such a shame, because both Kuro Ryushu and Kuro Rodion are very fun to use, so I had hopes of a future full Kuro team (I like themed squads) being good
Eh, I will bring Tingtang. He does synergies with bleed and has a skill with 30 power, meaning he will be relevant for clashes. Also good defense skill
Rollwise this id is somewhat worse than even base id,but somehow he just does wild damage I dont even use him on md2's because there is better options (anyone else,but im Kong Lu user) But i kind of wanna see his comeback on RR2,he needs to get his time of glory again (Not like Hong Lu overall not gets his time of glory,i just wanna see KK Lu shine again(i am guge hong lu simp btw))
Can't lose clash if you attack unopposed. If you're going to eat the damage anyway, its better to go around rather than though. Though that only applies to abno fights
Tbh he almost kinda reminds me of a reverse liu greg/blade yi. Where those guys had very high offense level but very lacking damage due to low coin power kk hong had very poor clash but very high dps potential. Ofc both liu greg and blade yi especially got massive buffs to their coin power in uptie 4 meaning that they can actually do danage now but kk hongs offense issues didnt seem to get fixed at all. Tbh hes still good because a basically free 4 coin s2 that rolls 21 is still really good but i think he can get powercrept eventually. Take the recent zwei greg who also has a 4 coin slash s2 but unlike kk hong his only maxes out at 15 but considering that zwei greg is supposed to be a super definsive id who knows what an offensive id with a 4 coin s2 slash could do
imo, kkhl isn't a good clasher. you can arguably say that he's part of the support group, given that he can give bleed (which can very much tie into don quixote's ego passive), but he doesn't synergize with any bleed IDs. i think he works best as part of a liu lineup, as you'd be able to deal a little bit of extra damage with clashing, but then why wouldn't you just use hong liu, given that hong liu is *part* of the liu lineup? he's definitely got some potential as a damage dealer ID, but hong lu nowadays has better IDs available in the form of KCorp Hong Lu, or W-Corp Hong Lu. Even if those two IDs aren't damage dealers and are more towards tanks or help with tanking, you can still get more use out of them than just going unopposed. KKHL is good for busting down staggered enemies, and that's about it. However, this requires getting Cloud Cutter, and getting the coin reuse to proc. It also requires the enemy to not be slash-resistant (i'm aware that all resistances die when staggered).
In most of the higher difficulty Id clashing becomes absolutely meaningless, only EGOs can clash most of the attacks anyway and you have the entire run to build EGO resources. In this case, KK Hong Lu has not only good damage, but also utility. Run him alongside Meursault or someone else with Bind and watch him inflict paralyse to make the unclashable clashable due to anomaly combat being less focused on clashing and pretty much all bosses being anomalies.
"kkonglu being anti-synegy with his own gimick is the reminicient to his unwilling to follow order nature mentioned in his tier up you wanted him to do more, but he said no and did bare enough" that is what ive written about him in the discord. Hes talented, but him not doing his best when you needed him the most is the thing thematically stoped from moving higher, both in game and in lore- to 000, and to be the greater leader of the kurokumo gang- but he doesnt want it, so a lazy progidy, and a 00 he will be His skill's affinity describe that too- Kkong lu is self-centered (prideful), always apeared demanding certain things (lust) and the moment he goes all out, its because he wanted it to end quick so that he can just laid back (sloth) The new agro system help him alot tho, in abno fights, the zwei team can do their thing (t4 ofc) and he himself can ditch out respectable damage on one-sided attacks, but it isnt the best, he is a 00, you can make him work, but there are better choices. About the video, you have a nice voice, really, but you mic were a little too far and it seems like you were doing record in closed room- wall's echoes can be heard. You can try to compensate by putting your mic closer while recording with a blanket over your head (half joke), but beside that great video, looking forward to more
About a month ago it was adjusted to be for every 3 difference instead of 5 to compensate for the changes to growth, and effects like offense level down not feeling good to use.
How so? N Sinclair may appear to have anti synergy with Nfaust at first, until you realize that corrosion needs to be prevented and 15 sanity goes a long way, alongside fanatic being a good status to have. That’s not anti synergy, it just means you can’t spam whistles to all hell.
Limbus Company is a Gacha Game released by Korean Developers Project Moon. After their hit games Lobotomy Corporation and Library of Ruina. They then released limbus company earlier this year. Gacha Game but not entirely cringe basically.
@@therealESGOO thank you very much for answering my question, and so quickly too. enjoy your videos despite not knowing the game, subbed. I will never play this game cuz I don't like gacha but I will continue to watch your videos. edit: I also appreciate the extra info about the devs and their other games, thanks.
@@HawkBreland completely fair, I was hesitant myself, but I would recommend Lobotomy Corporation and Library of Ruina if you're interested in those types of games when they go on sale. Glad to know these videos have reach even when people don't know the games.
@@therealESGOO I will absolutely check those out, thank you for the recommendation. I hope your channel gets more exposure and that you continue to grow, you deserve it man.
You had me until you said he showed off too much of his chest. That's objectively untrue, the Kurokumo are the Cleavage Syndicate and Hong Lu has the nicest chest in the entire group.
bad design id???? nah, just bad design game basically just brute force crashing game higher number win while on damage, just need multiple coin it's just a downgrade ruina where crash win not win whole skill but on each hit, both could trade damage abuse high roll to block each limbus just sucks stat check bruth force crash power gacha game
That's true, but not completely true. LoR is most definitely a better game in all sorts of ways compared to limbus company, but in LoR the amount of attack dies on a page also means much bugger damage compared to other skills. Just take a look at greater split: vertical and solemn lament. Even if we won't be taking floor buffs into consideration, SL will, most likely, deal more damage due to strength buffs, which you'll have for sure since strength buffs are the strongest in the game. MD2H require you to actually stop WinRating your way through the game, but yeah, limbus is still in general a mich less challenging game and with much less variation in comparison to LoR, where you can build and enchant decks and pages
I feel like Kurokumo Hong Lu was never really meant to clash, that he's quite capable of doing massive damage when he does unopposed attacks. However in a game like Limbus Company where he is most of the time going to clash, he is quite bad, yeah.
Thematically it actually makes sense foe him to not synergize with his clanmate because KK honglu is apparently a renegade and isn't the most obedient within his clan. Outside of that yeah it makes him feel a bit worse. His role is overall meant to have him be a one sided attacker, but due to how limbis works you're primarily wanting to clash and keep clashing unless you can guarantee a stagger. Enemies sometimes do entirely too much damage to safely allow some hits to come through, or they'll do just enough to stagger at which point things spiral from there
In regular battles, that’s true, but not necessarily so for focused battles. Been bringing in a couple tanks for Hard runs where the two just focus on gaining aggro and accepting attacks for the rest of the team, which has been a big help for letting the rest of my team just deal damage unopposed without having to waste EGO resources just to win clashes while doing less damage than they’d do with just their skills.
@@KeiosKod in focused battles yeah he works a lot better, but there's a decent bit more of just the normal encounters where he's not gonna get too kuch of a chance to shine. ...granted that's mostly every sinner since coordination is out the window, but it's especially pronounced for some
@@KeiosKod But it's quiet sad that the best tank id in the game is k corp hong lu, and ting tang hong lu can both clash and deal shit tons of damage. So you only use kk hong lu before you get those 2 ids.
if NGrider is the one-man-army of r/limbuscompany then you are the one for limbus youtube comments, i suppose. I've seen you 3 times already and i feel like you have had at least some prescence in many more videos
KKHongLu really feels like the poster child for a larger issue you can see almost everywhere in the base Sinners and early ID releases, which I can only describe as a combination of two errors. One is PM wanted to create a new game rather than just making Library of Ruina 2.0 mobile edition, so they attempted to make things work differently, however they still continued to design things as if it was intended for LoR. Second is, they didn't properly playtest mechanics to see how they would work in practice, or at least failed to properly judge where the game would go in the future, leading to early ideas rapidly falling behind. With Hong Lu, you can see it in his kit. His kit is designed as if it was a deck from LoR, where you can pick and chose any card in your hand to use based on a situation's context. If his speed high rolls, you can use CC to deal a ton of damage and stagger foes before much bleed is applied, or use CB to inflict an assload of Paralysis, ensuring slower units can aggro away clashes and guarantee a win. Meanwhile if his speed lowrolls, you have plenty of time to inflict Paralysis from faster units so that when Hong Lu clashes, he can win despite his low clashing power. KKRyoushu even seems intentionally designed to work around him, as if she goes first, she can paralyze foes for him and inflict a bunch of offensiv level down, and if she goes last, she has a bunch of bonus damage against high bleed targets that Hong Lu can set up for, and her passive gives even more bonus against bleeding targets while Hong Lu's passive ensures whoever goes last inflicts way more bleed. Which that all sounds really great, but it just runs into the issue of... what if you can't do any of that because you only have two skill options? What if you lowroll Hong Lu's speed, yet don't have CC up, or highroll it, but don't have CB? In LoR you could just hang onto that page until you're ready, but in Limbus Company, you can't since you only have two slots for skills at any time, and the lower one, the one you're likely trying to save, gets consumed if you use an Ego. Sure, maybe you could remedy it somewhat by using other paralyze inflicting units, but they have issues in a very similar way. Base Faust, LCCB Ishmael Mersault through his Egos, they all inflict easy and reliable numbers of paralysis, but have extremely low speed rolls, in addition to applying it "this turn", meaning they can't actually make good use of it in most cases, even if you bind them or haste yourself. Which on the mention of slower tankier characters, that's another big issue. There actually is a system in place in-game that allows for tanks to aggro far more attacks than normal since release, long before aggro was added. You know how when you get more action slots than the enemy has, your last several slots "overflow" back and target the first enemy? The enemies will work in the opposite direction, so when they have more action slots than your team, they will end up targeting the slowest sinner, allowing the slow tanks to take those extra hits for everyone else. It seems like a great idea and an interesting mechanic, but you can probably already see the issue. When exactly does the enemy EVER have more actions than you? Not only do you also gain actions as a battle goes on, but you are obviously encouraged to kill enemies rapidly, meaning you'll quickly gain far more actions than they could ever get, so that "cool system" practically never ends up being used unless you are intentionally not taking a full team. It's only made even worse with the 7 sinner team amounts we've been using in "hard content", like big story boss fights or the floor 4-5 mirror dungeons. It's another system that seemed good on paper, but really didn't get properly tested in practice before being implemented. And similarly, just look at day 1 Burst. Meursault applies 2 tremor, Heathcliff applies 3, Ishmael applies god damn 1 tremor. In LoR, being able to directly effect the enemy's stagger bar was a pretty big deal, so massive that just dealing 6 stagger damage a single time was a pretty strong effect, much less dealing it 2-3 times on a single card. Since Stagger and your HP bar are now the same thing, it's reasonable to think that you need to be a lot more careful with designing mechanics to cause more frequent stagger. But they went so far overboard that Tremor effectively wasn't even a mechanic until better ways of inflict it released. I feel like this issue can be seen all over the place in many of the early IDs and Ego released. They are designed in a way that, on paper, seems like it would work excellently. However in practice, it doesn't work nearly as well because of how so much of the combat in this game is against humans, and no longer allows for free targeting and aggro-ing away attacks.
I agree with basically all of what you say. However there is an occasion where enemies *will* have more slots than you: certain multi-waves mook battles, if you are too fast on wave 1. Wave 1 will have you get 5 vs 5 slots, and expecting 2 or 3 turns to wipe them out you'll get either 7 or 8 slots going into wave 2. Enemies now spawn with 2 slots each, leaving you at 8 vs 10 slots. Example: 4-12. It is a rare case, but it does happen.
Good stuff! I have some thoughts myself, detailed below. KK Hong has a skill 2 that deals massive damage but is poor at clashing, and a skill 3 that has huge utility potential due to fat stacks of Paralysis. Thematically then, we have somebody that is super good at one-sided attacks (both for damage and utility), essentially a DPS that is not meant to clash. I think the concept is actually quite good here, with the issue being the far more fundamental problem with Limbus combat where often everybody is forced to clash all the time against enemy skills you cannot choose. Mainly he makes me sad that we don't live in a world where we would actually have to consider roles such as clasher, DPS, tank (admittedly newly relevant with MD2H), and support, instead of just staring at skill max values for every ID. Alas. I do agree that he should synergize with his fellow clanmates, though.
I completely agree, I think his kit is poorly designed because Limbus does force you to do fights where everyone needs to clash and Kurokumo Hong Lu just doesn't stack up to other damage IDs in that field. If it were different, I would probably change my view on KK Hong Lu. As it stands, it is upsetting that he is just Cloud Cutter, as opposed to an unopposed focused attacker (though that would be very cool and fitting for the Shi Association IDs in particular)
@@therealESGOO We are in agreement then! As a point unrelated to the video since you brought them up, I do kinda dislike how 'get bonus when at low HP' is now the entire Shi Association gimmick despite it not really making sense, since that being the case in Ruina was entirely circumstantial. Getting bonuses on one-sided attacks would indeed be a far more on-flavor gimmick for the people who are at least nominally supposed to be assassins.
while something like grip sinclair do ton of damage while being on of best crasher in game it just game powercreeping in general before sanity change and head roll chance was lower it more balanced with skill with higher base but lower coin, and skill with strong coin with lower base just more rng and reset and unpredict thing sanity change just broke it, now good id must have high coin power+maybe coin number too to do damage that why new id since grip faust have like 16+ total on s2 old id just dead, some just fixed in uptie 4 good id are just good, bad are just bad, with some specialize on dmg or something pmoon just broke thing then fix then then maybe broke thing again now with enemy max sanity almost guaranteed head roll, most skill will do 16+ as it max most of time so game is just dps check, player won't lose crash so they just make new content have higher roll than normal, just brute force back to player then they start release something like tank, seem viable but not that optimal for fast clear synergy usually dont work well in this game either as everything just rng roll we don't have real setup, or something like deck setup like ruina, it just fix skill on xxxx id gated by gacha bleed count is either too much (and no potency) or too low boss move and lose bleed before all in all it just brute force crashing power plus some damage unga bunga status/debuff usually just a bonus than a real deal sinking/rupture could lose all stack not enough good id with x status/debuff to use (just see burn team, only viable burn are only liu ish and sinclair, other 00 liu are just too weak) md ego gift is random than player pick some at start to make team synegy base on that single ego gift sometimes give strong buff than even building team for it maybe something like rr2, team synegy will come when it come to resetting, bursting shit because speed and thing are just rng, wave battle can't select target either skill also rng and cycle slower than ruina deck, as their are no draw look at fast sinking deluge t1 burst and think how many reset to make it work yi sang must be slowest, and must have s3 (2/6 chance to have it at t1) boat ish must have s3 (same 2/6) rodya must be fastest and ready to use rime shank optimal speed order is rodya > ish > yisang need coin for double rime shank if want max dmg (if md then their are sinking gift which make a lot of difference, and a lot of rng) so much problem on this game, maybe they fixing it but will broke something else later in progress but that keep ppl stick to the game, grinding it (which is like filler) but keep ppl more than finished game
@@strikefreedomgundam6446 "before sanity change and head roll chance was lower it more balanced with skill with higher base but lower coin" No it wasn't the old sanity system was far from balanced and it showed because every single coin attack was useless. The current system is much more balanced by allowing both single coin skills and multi coins skill to have their own roles at different points in time (namely clashing for singles, damage for multi) "now with enemy max sanity almost guaranteed" Bullshit, the enemy pretty much never at max sanity unless you the player gave them that. "synergy usually dont work well in this game either as everything just rng roll" So which is it? Is the chance of rolling heads to high or is everything to rng? I disagree synergies work perfectly fine especially once you use EGO as a means to kickstart synergies. "status/debuff usually just a bonus than a real deal" R Heath is one of the best units in the game because of the strong debuff on in s3. "sinking/rupture could lose all stack" Yes that's how they are balanced to prevent them from breaking the game. Sinking count is very easy to maintain in abno fights and build up over the course of the fight. Rupture is impossible to maintain but you can get a burst of count leading to absurd damage "look at fast sinking deluge t1 burst and think how many reset to make it work" Almost like it isn't meant to be a t1 tactic.
I think the reason for his anti synergy is cause of the lore of K Hong Lu not working with his clanmates, however i dont think it was a good choice since its hindering him alot.
As a matter of fact... Shi ishmael has a better cloud cutter since hers : - only requires her to be under 50% hp (rather easy to do) - is active even during clashes - benefit from a nice +1 offensive level - still synergize with her kit - has absolutely no anti synergy with other IDs (even the one that heals since she can just counter until she gets under 50% again)
I think the anti-synergy is being downplayed since if they heal shishmael above 50% shishmael has to preform HEAVILY worse for 1 turn to be able to reach the optimal sweetspot, and since spamming fluid sacc is currently like meta shishmael doesnt really fit in a team unless you have so much unconditional clashing power that you dont need to sp and hp heals that fluid sacc may provide. But otherwise yeah shishmael is honostly just better than KK honglu because not only does she have more damage, her s2 actually CLASHES with the 4 coins instead of clashing with 2, which allows her to have s3 levels of clashing in a 4 coin s2
Reading this when First Mate Yi-Sang Dropped...Ok Yeah I now see that Ishmael's version is pretty good, but honestly, Relentless Stabbing is hefty good at UT4 which still feels "balanced" enough as is mostly on crit. However yeah that doesn't means Ishmael's Flashing Strike is not worse than it since she on the opposite can adds two extra coins on her clashing which is still good, while Relentless Stabbig mostly get +3 on clash with enough poise (which is not hard to stack) in this case is 21 > 18 so they both are good clashers, unlike Kurokumo Hong.
I used him quite a bit in MD2H as starter sinner, and I managed to do quite good with him not dying and without Fluid Sac (Block is handy sometimes + Speed shenannigans + Starter +2 max speed). But, to be honest, he's not that "high risk high reward case", because TT Hong is straight better, and T4 failed on giving KK Hong anything. Which is just sad, because they should've, to keep him afloat, and not just "bring him if you miss on TT Hong".
He just isnt overpowered now and thats totally fine, it made no sense for a 00 to even be able to compete with like one of the strongest 000s in the game anyways
Also, the reason Kurokomo Hong Lu doesn't synergize with his own clanmates is explained in his Uptie Story: He tends to be an annoying little shit, even if he follows orders to the letter.
I'm an adamant believer that his kit was improperly coded on release but after people enjoyed the free four hit attack for so long they couldnt go back and rework him in a way people would end up being happy. I really would like to hear if this is true after Limbus is fully released and PM can have some Q&A down the line.
I sometimes wonder if he’d actually be stronger at upty 2 as you’d just have cloud cutter and his skill one. I have no way of testing if its actually true in practice but it’s something Ive always thought about
Shout outs to Railway Alleyway Watchdog node, where people brought in KK Hong Lu just to Cloud Cut the Telepole turn 1. Hit all heads and go before the body, and you faulter all 5 of the bosses' attacks via the passive about staggering the telepole, but never kill it. Leaving it at just low enough HP for a everyone to dogpile it Turn 2, Break the telepole, Faulter 5 attacks a second time, then hopefully kill before the Watchdog takes his turns on Turn 3
I was more of a "Bring TT Hong Lu to solo the Statue in phase 1 of My Form Empties, since Shank's true damage pierced the protection and could easily kill the body part 2-3 times
this is easily the best edited limbus video i've ever seen, and still would be if it wasn't the only limbus video i've seen that actually utilises editing i love it also, it's super neat to see all these battle sprites lined up and used this way
As am avid kurokumo Hong lu user, I feel so dumb not realizing until now the only reason I liked him besides it being Hong lu and the design was cloud cutter carrying the entire kit lol
No need to feel dumb. It is strange, like the title implies. It’s pretty unfortunate that he is so hard carried by cloud cutter, but it is quite strong.
Perfect example of dev messed up so bad on his design that they just duct taped it with an unfair downside to his kit "Oh sh*t we made his 2nd skill too broken for a 00 tier char, what should we do?" "Just take away his clashing ability by giving him 0 offense level"
His Damage potential is fucking insane but his skill 1 bad he bad at crashing there for he bad at gaining sanity meaning lower damage potential overall Maybe you have N Faust and build lust heavy team,that can mitigate his sanity problem
TL;DR at bottom I gotta mention it here, since I'm not seeing it anywhere else. I am currently grinding the M2 Dungeon, getting light so I can do the hard dungeon easier I am not rich in T4, but I decided to go with T4 on Blade Linage Yi Sang since his backstory story mode thingy, and after I started mirror dungeon 2, I figured, might as well T4 all the ones that synergizes with Blade Lineage Yi Sang, now going blade lineage/kurokumo, hong lu is the only one that gives me sloth, and still pairs well with pride since cloud cutter (and the ego gift that gives +2 poise, +2 poise count, when pride absolute res - Not to mention, the bleed effect goes well with S3 Rodion and Sinclair (blade lineage) TL;DR My best setup in mirror dungeon (blade lineage/kurokumo/pride) requires Hong Lu kurokumo because he's the only one that gives me sloth EDIT: His passive also easy to trigger with this setup
You know he does synergise with KKRyoshu in one way, both their support passives trigger at the same time on the same sinner. If only RMeursalt had any aggro, then him, ZweiFaust, and these two in reserve could have been an interesting combo.
I will also say that cloudburst and its crazy 6 paralyze can be super helpful in MD2 to help win some unwinnable clashes, but as you said it is limited by his fast, but pretty average speed. My overall take on the design philosophy is that they wanted him to thrive in just doing unopposed attacks for damage or setting up his teammates with paralyze, which is why they didnt give him good clash values. Generally unrelated to this video since it is a lot more in depth, but TBH a lot of the discourse I see in the game right now basically stops and ends at the number associated with the clashing. While it is very important some ids thrive in using unopposed attacks and letting other ids clash for them, although in non abnormality encounters it kinda sucks that it is harder to "push" attacks down the order now compared to when you could use a defense skill to avoid a clash, which does make KK Hong lu a bit of a liability in MD2 sometimes, especially compared to his 5+25 counterpart in tingtang's crazy clash on mutilate.
I think PM realized everyone just picks high clashers so it wants good damage dealers to have meh and sometimes terrible clashes. Case and point: boatclair
Nah I disagree, him being a one-sided attacker let him work perfectly before and now that people have to deal with the downsides they struggle to just alternate their approach. In MD2H he still has value by virtue of Hong Lu having completely broken things for both targetable and untargetable battles. In human fights he is the only sinner that can spam EGO and not lose sanity even if it doesn't kill (not to mention in human battles there is always the option of spamming AOE EGO to win, especially in MD2H where you are swimming in sin resources when clashing gets tough. In abno fights he is a very strong tool due 6 paralysis often winning clashes for the rest of the team, or the insane damage from his s2 that stacks well with Dimension shredder (as it inflicts a negative status effect and then hits 3 times giving 3 charge and the EGO sanity cost is negligible due to his base EGO being capable of gaining sanity easily). He does have a role its just not straightforward but that's perfectly fine.
Kuro is my only hong lu. He was my first ID in the entire game. And I will religiously use cloud cutter to smite my enemies (Unless its a standard battle in MDH2). Kuro Lu's ability to clean up abno and boss fights will never not have its value. despite there being clear better options, it justs....works. it shouldn't, it appears to not when you see all the hopeless clashes. And yet....it just does. (though when u roll 2 cleaves on a skill slot u die inside a little)
Cloudcutter be like: 1st and 2nd hit: Tickle damage 3rd hit: _Hits stagger threshold omg_ 4th hit: _Enemy gets glory killed blood everywhere good God almighty mom get the camera_
I mean the Kromer issue is quickly resolved by just getting three "A Sign" to completely negate "You Must Accept the Pain!", so yeah, Cloud Cutter her to.
I was using him to grind the event - spend 1 turn to break the bosses' shell, then Cloud Cutter + Rip Space the boss into oblivion Clown Cutter does so much damage its silly.
Started playing limbus maybe 1 or 2 months ago, im at canto IV and kurokumo hong lu has carried me through a lot of the game, only a bit less than twinhook gregor, middle and lantern don and seven heathcliff
Kuro Hong Lu only works well in one-sided attacks in MD2 hard from my experience. Inflicting paralysis on an enemy with a high damage skill right before clashing against it with a high rolling ID is pretty good. My strategy is to use Kuro Hong Lu for MD2 hard Floor 1 and then swap him out for K Corp Hong Lu at the rest stop.
If he had better speed, his massive paralysis skill 3 would obliterate floor 4 floor 5 bosses ability to clash and deal damage. Esp considering today i learned when a blocking sinner is attacked is based on the enemy speed rather than the sinners speed, while unblocked attacks are based purely on sinner speed.
Its not necessarily that it’s punish infact he can use this skill2 times if faster than ryoshu and she can do hers 2 times and it does perfect amount of bleed and bleed count as i was reading ryoshu does +3 so it doesn’t activate the debuff untill next scene or if your lucky another scene depending the clash length and i understand what dev didnt want it going crazy insane number bleed to go with set high count but as is feels fine as for the 3rd skill i see that more use in focus battles why? Cause paralysis 5 you just need divert the enemy attack away from his by one coin slower person to make use of it well i can see this really good in hard mirror dungeon high rolling abnormaties that what i see anyways
I feel like most of the community currently categorizes all id:s in to ether clashers or supports, which i think is a little reductive when there are id:s which seem like they are designed for solely dps. kurokumo Hong lu and sunshower heathcliff are great examples of this, when neither of them can clash but in-turn deal massive damage under the correct circumstances.
I mean yeah but there are subcategories like tank and debuff/buff supports and clashing/one sided attackers, like boatclair has an incredibly juicy s1 when buffed, capable of doing 28 total damage but boatclair could not clash if his life depended on it, while Cinq don has a whole lotta clash but her damage is pretty average compared to her more burst focused option (w don)
1 thing that you should note is: Cloud Cutter has terrible clash power since coin 3 and 4 only appears when you deal damage and win the clash already. KK Hong Lu is just designed that way. His mechanics backstab each other. You want him on Bleed team but his S2 cannot deal tons of damage if you do that. You take him for the Paralyze then you realize he just has decent Speed and low roll S3. His defense skill is even crap also. The only thing that he is good at is clearing trash mobs in the first 3 chapters, and people mistake his value because of that.
"rare must be better" is a poor mindset to have. No debate. Didn't even have to watch 30 seconds to see what this was. Also the fact the other comments point out an apparent argument of "he doesn't synergize with the other kurokumo IDs." Literally the point.
![The Strange Case of Kurokumo Hong Lu [Limbus Company]](/img/logo.svg){kind=logo}
