The Sydney Metro West Problem 

Hey all! Really hope you all enjoy this video; after two non-analytical videos in a row I thought it would be nice to return to my “Infrastructure Investigation” series. Some things I wanna address that didn’t make it into the video: - My dog was barking a LOT while I was recording the video. In hindsight, I probably should have waited for her to stop barking...but I guess I’m lazy... - Super excited about learning how to properly highlight text in Adobe Premiere Pro! Looks so much more professional than me simply highlighting the text with my cursor while screen-recording as I did before this video lol. - I tried to be as impartial and fair in this video as possible. Hopefully you come away from this video able to make up your own mind on the Sydney Metro West project. Ultimately, though...yes, my opinion probably is that stations in Lilyfield, Newington and Camellia should have been built, but it is likely too late for that to be done now. - My original idea for this video was to suggest the Sydney Metro West take a very different route, via the Victoria Road corridor. (Check out this excellent proposal by Cuachon Rail Network: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-3t5Nh1OxdBY.html. He’s one of my subscribers actually, seeing me give him a shout might be a surprise for him!) Personally, my own proposal would have had stations located in Pyrmont, The Bays, Rozelle, Drummoyne, Gladesville and Ryde, interchanging with the T9 Line at West Ryde, before continuing west with stations at Melrose Park, Ermington, Rydalmere and Camellia, and then finally arriving in Parramatta. This is a very important corridor that I feel suffers due to the lack of heavy rail access, and I think it’s a shame that the Sydney Metro West isn’t being built along this corridor. But on the other hand, this is a rather indirect route passing through already well-established areas, so it is far from inexplicable that the line isn’t being built here. I’m really hoping to make a video on this Victoria Road Rail Line one day, and why no rail access exists along this important corridor. - I teased in my 1000 Subscriber Video that I was going to be making a video about a lost railway in Sydney’s west after my Denistone video, but I kinda just never did haha. Anyways, planning for that to be my next video assuming everything goes to plan. I’m really enjoying making content about “lost” infrastructure. I’ve been watching videos by the channel Auto Shenanigans, who cover abandoned roads and secrets of motorways in Britain. Such fascinating content, stuff I think even the infrastructure-uninterested could find interesting. Luckily, Sydney has no shortage of unbuilt roads which I’m excited to make videos about. On that note, I’ve already got ideas for a motorway just outside of Sydney which WAS built...but was bypassed not long after, making it essentially an abandoned motorway. I’ve been fascinated about it ever since I was a kid. Time-permitting, that will probably be the video after my lost railway video! Stay tuned!

The decision not to build a metro station at Camellia is extraordinary & not only because of the potential development opportunities it provides. It would interchange with the Parramatta Light Rail so it would effectively provide Carlingford residents with direct way to travel into the City. It also is only a few hundreds metres walk (or one light rail stop) to Rydalmere with a Western Sydney University campus & an industrial area which is also planned for development.

one Metro section that doesn't make sense is the Glenfield-Leppington section, if the existing South West Rail Link (which is the newest line on the network being opened in 2015) is extended to the airport with heavy rail instead of Metro, it could provide an easier no transfer journey all the way to the city, but knowing the NSW government wanting to make every single new line Metro, they're just converting a line less than a decade old again to Metro (like the Epping-Chatswood Link) then people coming from the new airport heading to Sydney would have to change at either St Marys or Glenfield which just keeps leaving major unnecessary gaps in the network.

Well done mate. As somebody who works in the transport planning space, it's really nice to see you putting out accessible and informative videos for the world. Great stuff.

Brilliant and well presented video. You have really nailed some key points. I live in Castle Hill not far from the Northwest Metro station. It is fantastic and is admired by all those who ride on it. Yes reliably every 3-4 minutes during busy times and around 10 minutes during off peak. The great thing is the large distance you can so quickly travel e.g. Castle Hill to Epping main line station is 8 minutes. This new Metro being able to get from Sydney CBD to Parramatta in 20 minutes ...fantastic! Your highlight of the North Strathfield Station and it's links between the main lines was 100% correct. Thank You for your great work.

Although it's not obvious, the Light Rail does run through Leichardt and Liliyfield on its perimeter. Unfortunately it's slower than buses for getting into the city. It's actually better as a way to get to Dulwich Hill and switch to the Bankstown line. This area really could use some redevelopment, especially that Parramatta road stretch.

I think the challenge here is you are primarily trying to give relief to the Parramatta - City express line, so you've got to make it quick enough to encourage those coming from the West to transfer at Westmead. It's far more equivalent to a Crossrail or Paris RER than the NorthWest, City and SouthWest Metro, although even that has large gaps in places.

Agreed with the Camellia area. There was an excellent opportunity to interchange with the upcoming light rail station, but shortsightedness and a desperate goal to funnel inner-city residents to Parramatta as quickly as possible meant suburbs around parramatta were ignored. But what’s the point of a metro system that doesn’t allow easy access? Will people really use it if they have to drive 5km just to get to a station?

Parramatta station isn’t an interchange. The metro station is like a whole 2-3 blocks away from the existing station (and was purposefully designed that way). Westmead is the interchange for metro west/T1 western line

Sydney Metro (in contrast to extending the existing network) is primarily an ideological objective to overcome the rail unions and move to a fully privatised public transport system in Sydney. It is consistent with the creation of TAHE, redevelopment of transport land for private development, privatising Sydney's bus and ferry networks. The Sydney Metro corridor should instead have accommodated faster intercity services from the Blue Mountains and beyond and from the future airport, meeting the Govt's objectives of providing a 20 min connection between the City and Parramatta. This would have also freed up space on the existing T1/T2/T9 corridors. A better metro service between the two CBDs would have been under Victoria Road. It's also unsuitable to have less seating capacity on long distances like the metro lines. Can you imagine having to stand all the way from Bella Vista to Central station, or when you've got luggage from Western Sydney airport to Sydney CBD? Its also a missed opportunity to provide a direct connection between the two airports. There could have been a circumferential line from the northwest, through the city to Sydney airport, out to the Western Sydney airport and to the northwest. Oh and the Carlingford Line should have stayed heavy rail with an underground connection to Epping.

as always great video!! Thanks for your channel, please keep the vids coming.

These stations can be built. They just need to build the line with 4 tracks and have express trains that can provide the fast access to / from Parramatta.

The biggest problem in NSW is housing by a very long way. The Government has rightly said that all large transport must support new development.

What they'd be better of doing is building a express tunnel between Parramatta and Sydney with one station at Strathfield, which would convey trains from Penrith and the Blue Mountains. The big cost of underground railways is the stations. This would reduce the running time to about 45 minutes, Penrith to City.

Yes why you would spend all this money and build only six stations between Parramatta and the CBD and essentially duplicate the mainline? And the route and placement of stations is very strange. A station at Drummoyne under Victoria Road by sending the tunnel north-east after Five Dock would have been really useful as well as running the line down the Balmain peninsula before heading off south to Pyrmont. I think our planners need to visit Beijing to see what a really great metro system looks like.

A station near the Newington Business Park would have catered to not only Newington, but also Wentworth Point and East side of Silverwater which is 70% industrial. I know people who work in Silverwater take the car because there's no good bus connectivity in that area. A Metro station accessible to these 2 and a half suburb would have alleviated the congestion problem 4-6PM everyday there .

If the Parramatta Light Rail can buy contaminated land for a depot at double the price from some scummy real estate agent, then the metro can easily build a station at Camellia. Plus, it could easily link up with Rosehill racecourse, and would help a lot with congestion on race days.

The other benefit of fewer stations is it make the trip more attractive to people living west of north mead.Places like Lilyfield & north Leichhardt have frequent light rail & the 437 bus is a very quick trip from The QVB(though T/hall station will become overcrowded in the future) & lastly on the main west line you do have express train from Lidcombe,Strathfield & Burwood which I regularly use successfully if I’m heading north for quicker trip.

Great video as always Sharath...and your subscriber base is growing very nicely (I remember not too long ago reaching the thousand subs point)...showing that your videos are making their mark, and opening converstaion about the future of this great city...well sometimes great albeit for traffic 😂😂...but all jokes aside, the overall Metro system and its chosen corridors...for whatever the Govt's reasons...will always be open to contention...why/why not...constructability as you've pointed out be a major cost driver...is understandable and I think an underrated point mant take onboard...it's easier to inconveneince a few than the masses and to justify the cost for the few. The Westmead end of the line for now is a wise idea, large medical hub, already medium/high density through much of the area, and a link to the current bus transit way fills the gap towards the NW metro and lower part of the Hills District. As many of Sydney's areas age as well, it will be more likely to house more and more medium.high density developments, as there are huge tracts of land with single dwellings that I'm sure developers would love to get their hands on...allowing for even more Metro routes into the future...we shall see!!!! Having the existing heavy rail with it's express and snail pace services will cater to the many along these lines as they have for ages...and evidence of more recent higher density housing construction along these routes is proof enough to your densification question...makes perfect sense. Keep up the great work mate...as there is a lot to enjoy about your videos of not just the future plans of Sydney, but the older forgotten "future of Sydney" plans from many years ago...all of them extremely well researched, and presented in a non biased and commonsense approach...very well done...always looking forward to your next installment 😁😁😁😁

well done As somebody who works in the transport planning space, it's really nice to see you putting out accessible and informative videos for the world. Great stuff.

Bro, I am very glad that I found your video and channel. I am studying regional and town planning at the University of Queensland and doing an urban renewal project for the course, and I learn so much from this video. Can I also ask you to do a video on the Queensland rail line or Brisbane? Thank you!

Like your videos very informative.. I knew bits and pieces but you have helped me join the dots 👍

The land around Camellia is really contaminated. Costs for remeidation would probably cost 30% of the entire project. Residential can't also be built there due to the contaminated land being too contaminated for any housing to take place.

Great video explains a lot. I'm guessing the strict 20 minute rule is partly to create a time saving enough to convince Western line passengers west of Westmead to transfer onto the metro (as well as increasing Parra's attractiveness to business). The gripe I've always had about the metro west project since is conception though, is why did they not choose the VICTORIA ROAD corridor? Maybe slightly longer travel times, and they wanted to serve Olympic park? The current alignment runs so close to the existing Western line it almost duplicates it, whereas a Victoria road alignment would have opened up an entire corridor currently not served by any mass transit, to rail.

Thanks for the update mate

one of your best yet. thanks

I don't understand why they keep creating new stations in the CBD. Hunter Street is going to be such a pain to interchange with. Why not connect to Central, Martin Place, Town Hall or Barangaroo?

thanks for video - you need another map showing relationship between stations, non-stations and party-held electorates, as this correlation is well-established in so many other areas of funding

Great video! And an interesting point on the Inner West stations that I wouldn't have considered.

i still think it should’ve been a heavy rail compatible railway but with train segregated.

The seven km between Olympic Park and Parramatta will be served by buses and trams. There is no need to include more stations in this area. As for between Pyrmont and The Bays, most of this run is under water. It's a bit hard to put stations here. Sydney Metro is not a heavy rail service. Sydney Trains is heavy rail. Sydney Metro is metro rail, a separate class of rail between light and heavy rail. One other thing - if more stations are put in, the travel time between Sydney and Parramatta will increase and this will take the shine off the main advantage of this new line.

I find the entire Sydney Metro West project confusing and bizarre, it just sounds like a napkin idea that came to fruition. Yes the lack of stations is definitely one thing, and the idea of building suburbs up around transit stations definitely a great idea, but the whole goal of a 20ish minute journey doesn't make sense, with Blue Mountains line trains from Parramatta to Central only taking about 25 minutes. Also the lack of connectivity in the centre of Sydney, which yes is a very difficult place to build in, will ultimately for me, make it a missed opportunity.

I think you're touching on an important thing here - there are some complex engineering and environmental challenges that can't be overlooked when embarking on these projects. I think we need to change our mentality to accept multi-modal transportation. For example, I don't see why there couldn't be short shuttle bus routes to ferry commuters from areas like Newington and Wentworth point the short distance to Olympic Park to connect with the metro there. Same goes for connecting interchanges. It would make sense to have fast links between major nodes, and slower, shorter routes to connect stations with lower density. Keep up the good work! Loving the videos!

Nice video - one point - I wouldn't write off North Strathfield as 'just' an interchange. Even though parts of the suburb are relatively low density, there are a bunch of high density apartments either being built or already in existence just on Parramatta road. If they re-open the pedestrian bridge at Ismay Reserve over Powells Creek , many residents would have excellent access to the new station, and thus both CBDs.

I hope to see more of videos, keep up great job 👍

Good explanation as to why stations are and aren't build. As you know the cost of building stations is quite high, it would be good to see a cost comparison between the cost of stations and the cost of the tunnels

Five Dock was chosen because one of the MP owned properties where the station is.

Thank you. Very informative. I have not seen a video from you, or indeed, a mention of Sydney's other transport service - the ferries on the Parramatta River. In my community, there is a belief that developers with sites along the river are "enthusiastic" about "30 minutes to the City." That said, the report by Cardno back in about 2011 identified $30M in foreshore and environmental damage, which the ferries had already caused.

Well you are forgetting the general principle of planners and governments is to make public transport as inconvenient and unusable as possible because they never use it themselves.

Great work. I recalling reading the cost of the station builds on the NW link was around $500M each. This is probably a factor as well.

Every time construction crews disturb Camellia it causes fish die offs in the Parramatta river, Camelia is more contaminated than the spiral mounds at olympic park, it'd be an environmental disaster if more gets dug up, I worry about the asbestos mounds at the old james hardie site. the top 60cm of soil is heavily contaminated and what's under is soaked with doixins so its best that no more construction projects happen in the area, I also hate to imagiine the future health disasters that will arise after that entire industrial area gets re zoned to residential.

they can have extra lines by stations so trains can pass each other and still serve all centers of population. It should never be to late when you are building something that could totally change the lives of beings and or take the status quo and know you have a project that as it stands may be an improvement but when you see the potential to do something totally revolutionary that could set the foundation higher than any espected

Can you look into the transfers? There are three L1 stations at Pyrmont; will the Western metro connect to any of them, or is it going to be another ridiculous situation like the L1 and T1/T2 at Lewisham? Any plans for a Victoria Road bus interchange at The Bays, since they seem to have missed the opportunity for an L1 interchange there? What's North Strathfield going to be like? A real interchange station, or another half-arsed, frustrating, poorly timed connection like L1/T3 in Dulwich Hill, that will drive people back into their cars? Thanks!

Great video, and so many changes since I lived there. I lived in the Parramatta area, and even in the late 70's/early 80's there was talk about decentralisation (it was a big thing with the NSW Labor Party). The problem back then was planning permissions. There was no way a local council would permit a high rise office building to be built outside of the CBD, and yet the State Government wanted people to decentralise. It's all very well having a 20 minute train from the CBD to Parramatta, but how many people reside in the CBD and will want to commute to Parramatta? I think very few, and so additional stations along the way of the new line will discourage car use or even discourage people travelling to the existing stations, reducing congestion. The 20 minute commute between the CBD and Parramatta sounds good, but in reality very few will benefit from this, because demand from the two centres will be limited.

The one major question I have is why couldn’t the new metro line for Parramatta be built underneath the existing Parramatta Station? Surely with the right expertise, planning, surveying and architecture it could’ve been done in an efficient, safe way. It’s hardly convenient to have to get off at the existing Parramatta Station and have to do the five to ten minute walk to the new metro station in order to travel on it. Plus there’s a lot of businesses this construction work has affected. Some of those businesses had to close and they ain’t gonna come back. And not all of the people who were employed by those businesses will ever find work again. Thus building the new metro line ( And yes up to a certain point the light rail) has placed some people on Centrelink payments for the rest of their lives. Which ain’t good in anybody’s book or opinion. Plus there’s the constant noise of construction work that’s been going on for years in and around Parramatta and Harris Park. And we people who have been living in these suburbs for years now, deserve a break from the constant noise of construction. We’re Really wanting the peace and quiet we once had. Not the never ending noise from construction going on. There comes a time when enough is enough. So when You point out about all the people and suburbs that aren’t getting the metro line and stations, the question should be just how much noise, inconvenience are the people in those places willing to take or make sacrifices for? And maybe the answer could be they may not want the metro line because of the constant noise, inconvenience, temporary traffic changes ect……… ⚛️☮️ 🚇 🌏

I’m from Perth and to me, the large gaps between stations make total sense. In Perth, our new railways are built on that concept - a minimum of about 2.5 km between stations and an average of around 3-4 km or so. As a result of this and relatively straight rail alignments, we get much faster speeds than Sydney - trains travelling at 130 km/h regularly overtake cars on the freeway (our new railways are mostly in freeway medians to avoid tunnelling costs), and we manage to make a 70.1 km trip from Perth to Mandurah in 51 minutes, including stopping at all stations. When I first visited Sydney, I was struck by how slow and inefficient the trains seemed to be - double-story increases dwell times, the guard position seemed unnecessary, and the trains accelerated slowly and never reached any sizeable speeds - so I think it’s great the Metro is taking a different direction. As for the problem of how we serve suburbs that aren’t particularly near the distantly spaced stations, we do so using a combination of intricate feeder bus networks and various sizes of “park and ride” car parks at most stations outside the CBD. I think it works very well for our purpose of “getting quickly into the city”.

How one line takes 10 years to complete baffles me. South Africas Gautrain, with 10 stations, 84 kilometre route, was built in less than 5 years from start to finish.

Interested in your input about escooters. NSW has banned them, while half of Australian states have legalised them. I think they would be a great new addition to our transport options, to reduce the number of cars on the road.

Great info!

Leichhardt has a major sorting venue, Leichhardt Oval. Surely that must help it get more public transport options.

When building a metro, city councils/transport authorities should not only focus on residential or commercial areas but on industrial areas as well as this is where commuters especially drive. Hence building metro stations in these industrial areas would ease congestion and improve overall travel times, reduce pollution in local areas and in the end reduce carbon emissions. So, it is a mistake not to build a metro station in Silverwater/Newington. It would have reduced congestion on Parramatta Rd and Silverwater Rd as many commuters could have taken the metro instead of the car, and as a positive side effect, it would have also given residents in Newington good public transport access. To give a positive example of where this approach has been implemented: Barcelona has built two whole new lines - L9 & L10 - connecting the city/the metro network with the big southern industrial area of the city and also serving the harbour! The explicit purpose to build these lines was to reduce car traffic on the local road network, improve air quality and the quality of life in surrounding residential areas and encourage commuters to travel more sustainably by taking the metro and not the car. And it worked!

Parramatta to North Strathfield is gonna be great for my work travel time. Great video as always!

I feel like you are making the problem sound far bigger than it really is. If the light rail is build correctly, I don't see a reason why it should take more than ten minutes from Camellia to Parramatta, it's less than two kilometers as the crow flies. And if you claim, that an extra ten minutes wouldn't matter on the line overall (which I don't agree with, 20 or 30 minutes is a massive difference for public transport), then surely it isn't that much of a problem for the future passengers to take 10 minutes on LR to Parramatta and then 20 minutes to Sydney.

I think (as a T9 resident funnily enough) the thing I thought was most off about this line was that it interchanged through Nth Strathfield over Strathfield. Considering the stations aren’t super far apart and Strathfield interchanges with multiple lines whilst Nth Strathfield interchanges T9 only I thought it was a bit of an odd choice. My only thought on why this is is that they want to develop Nth Strathfield a bit more while Strathfield is already quite a built up area?

In order to cut trip times AND have tight station spacings for optimal development, you get faster trains. For some reason even though Sydney metro trains can reach 120kmh they only run 100kmh in service. Meanwhile BART, another metro in SF, be going 130kmh

The less stations the better. If you truly want to have the highest speed link BETWEEN Parramatta and the CBD, no stations is the best plan. Having no stations would make it the fastest medium between the cities. I know there will be stations, but the fewer there are the better. If you live in between, you should use current transport options.

3 additional stations, Lilyfield, Silverwater Rd, Rosehill. It would add 7.5 minutes to journey, 30 minutes is still very acceptable to Hunter St, it's nearly 40 minutes to this location on any Western Line. Lilyfield would need to be located in the Leichardt oval area, would require lifts lieu escalators and stairs would be 350 metres from the LR, however this isn't a problem relatively low capacity needed. Passengers would feed into this station from the LR, a dedicated underground walkway could be built from the LR level to a concourse. Silverwater is located on a major road so station traffic can be added via buses, Newington has significant high density in the near vicinity, the industrial areas adjacent can be redeveloped. Rosehill is on a direct line to the railway , Camelia isn't along the route. The racecourse land could be opened for development with racing relocated to a new Hawkesbury racecourse development. The rail stabling and repair facility moved to the old oil refinery site, and the proposed stabling site also redeveloped for housing. This project not well thought out, the 20 minute shuttle idea is absurd, nobody is going to get off a western line service walk to the metro to get to the city 10 minutes quicker. Far too much money is being thrown at Hunter St, St James would allow better redevelopment of the Market St and more westerly areas of the city and allow easy interchange with the circle with the circle upgrading capacity to 24 trains per hour. After building at St James, Market St and St James Rd would become traffic free malls.

it's really strange the long distance without a station between parramatta and Olympic Park, especially that's not the bush area .....

What Sydney needs is more over priced two bedroom apartment developments crowded around metro stations where families will have to crowd in together like it's the 1800's. The development around stations is a mirage, it's mostly apartments for single people or couples but as soon as you start a family your choices are buy an uber expensive 3 bedroom apartment or just move out to a home in the suburbs. The government's idea of development is all about maximising profit for developers is has nothing to do with providing actual real useful and affordable housing for families who let's face, are the ones who are having the kids who will be the Australians of the future

Could they build the Camellia station later down the track? Is that something possible with tunnels and underground stations?

As Parramatta station is too small for a Sydney to Melbourne 700 km/h SC maglev station I suggest they build Parrahub ASAP as this would also provide much housing for older people to relocate with all services. This would be done with passing stations at Canberra and Albury in a single 11 psi tunnel and to make it economically viable it needs an overnight container train to reduce daytime fares below planes.

Great video 👏

What i think they should have done is to build 4x tracks underground (2x pairs for the double deckers and 2x pairs for the metro all stops). With the double decker tracks, the only station that serves it should be olympic park (during event days/peak hour maybe) and one other station (maybe north stratty or burwood north) along the government planned metro route. Its will serve many of the Pernrith/Richmond/BM lines going all stations from whatever terminus on the line (or some skipping stops on the line), then its will merge into a dugout at ether westmead or parra area to go underneath on the express tracks. Then after its go into the express tracks, its only stop will be westmead, parra, olympic park, stratta north or burwood north and terminate at hunter street as per current plans.... Then they can ether add more all stops trains along the current T1 corridor between westmead/parra and CBD or the gov can add more T2 or T9 services using the middle lines and also with the BM lines using the underground, there should be more reasons to expand the CCN line service and even the BM lines. As for the metro part, there should be double the stops added (eg westmead, parra, rosehill or camlliea, silverwater or newington, SOP, DFO or bicentinal park, north stratty, north burwood, five dock, lilyfield, the bays, pyrmont and hunter st. Then its should have allocations to be extended into the southern eastern suburbs. Sure its would have costed double to come up with this idea, but its would be helpful and with at least 60+ trains per hour during peak from westmead/parra to cbd, its sounds like an idea. Or alternatively and probs cost a whole lot more than that (probs triple and more complaints there), is rather to snake the metro though SOP and five dock make the metro go from usual westmead, parra, WSU, rydalmere/ermington, west ryde, top ryde, gladseville, drummoyne, rozelle, the bays, pyrmont and hunter street with the same allocation allowed for a southern eastern suburb extension

I live in Leichhardt and would absolutely love a metro stop in Lilyfield. Sad it's not gonna happen :(

I disagree with your statement about Camilla, the flood risk and ground contamination would have very high costs on the project. Old industrial sites are prone to this, and it is a big effort to clean up contaminated grounds. Given its so close to Paramatta anyway, as you pointed out, the ability to walk, bus or tram it is enough.

Hong Kong SAR CN is a great example of what you are talking about (the MTR+rail model)

Awesome stuff, pls make one on the penrith region and the new Bradfield city.

One more thing to add for Westmead, and potentially Camelia/Rydalmere (if it were to have been built) is that usership rates would be greatly improved with parking access like what’s available at Ashfield (opal card controlled parking). Many people in these lower density areas (particularly surrounding suburbs) rely on parking at stops further away on the t1 line (despite living closer to Westmead) to simply not get ticketed. I for one would happily pay a reasonable amount to park in a PT parking structure for my daily commute

If you look at rouse hill, apartments are some of the worst overvaluations in Australia. It was in the top 10 in the country, yet they are only increasing development without investing in infrastructure...e.g. there is a community centre with four exercise equipment and single pool to accommodate at least 30,000 people. Expand that out with new development it only has a small-medium sized shopping centre to accommodate 100,000+ people.

I have to disagree with camellia the place has had a refinery there since 1925 it’s probably too contaminated for residential development and best off being an industrial zone. Also great video and I agree with most of your points exept camellia.

One more topic suggestion, which you may have covered already-I'll have to go exploring your back catalogue: The PLR terminating at Olympic Park, instead of along the T9, as was originally proposed-does that really make sense? When they say a T9 connection isn't feasible, what are they really considering? Just current traffic volumes, or potential traffic as well? People along the T9 will obviously take the T1 to Parramatta and Westmead, but if the Olympic Park area is becoming so important, wouldn't it be worth them not having to change trains a second time to go there? (When the 'biggest timetable change in a generation' happened in 2012, it was clear they didn't realise what a pain in the arse it is to change trains. I lived in Stanmore and had a girlfriend in Sefton, and a single-seat ride became an arduous journey with two changes, and nearly doubled the length of the trip. I heard a lot of stories like that, especially for people trying to get to Westmead or Macquarie Park.) When they made that PLR decision, did they look at how many people along the southern PLR corridor _could_ commute to Eastwood, or, ahem, Epping, if they had a quick and easy connection to the T9? Or just how many people do that commute today, when it's barely feasible anyhow?

Nearly 50% of the cityrail resource is dedicated to the T4 line alone... it's the most busy line EVER!

Where do you live? In Parramatta?

By the time it is finished commuter traffic to the CBD will be around a quarter of what it was. A Gallup survey in June of 2022 found that 8 in 10 people are working hybrid or remote, while only 2 in 10 are entirely on-site. And an AT&T study found the hybrid work model is expected to grow from 42% in 2021 to 81% in 2024. Once again Sydney is catering for historical demands not future. A really stupid idea.

I never knew it flooded in camellia. I actually never knew the parramatta river flooded downstream from the weir! Wow.

i think there are a lot of issues with metro west. there are a number of locations that should have had a station built, whilst others shouldn't. top drummoyne (near birkenhead point) would have been a significantly better location for a metro station compard to five dock. victoria road is already a busy road that has capacity, it has great potential for future development. with westconnex, some of the pressure will hopefully be removed from the road, making a station easier. there's also a lot more space to build a better interchange for buses, whilst five dock doesn't have this. i live in five dock, pretty much just next to kings bay. i have said this many times, but five dock is a poor candidate for density. without significant changes, it just isn't viable. given the state of roads already (queens road is a great example, it's a nightmare as it is and has been proposed as a location for new dense developments), and there aren't great access points. great north road i don't think has much potential as a station, since the road is relatively dead (might change with metro), and there is limited space to build an effective bus interchange, making the potential for it being used by neighbouring suburbs reduced. great north road also acts as a busy collector, funneling most traffic from five dock, abbotsford, drummoyne, etc to parramatta road, however, with a metro station, i'm sure the speed will be dropped to 40km/h, and buses will be using stops on great north road, and there will be more, making it a lot busier. this will make it a far less attractive route, meaning all traffic it currently funnels will be diverted onto lyons rd west, and then harris road in order to get to parramatta road. both of the roads mentioned are just poor, and aren't able to handle large amounts of traffic. rosebank college (school on harris road) already contributes to significant amounts of traffic here, and it will only be exemplified by diverting other traffic. i also think that services should have access to both rhodes (instead of north strathfield for t9 interchange), and wentworth point, both of which are already extremely dense locations, and the latter lacks good public transport links. extending the line from wentworth point to olympic park and then parramatta i thought would be a no-brainer, because it would be so useful for residents, who only have direct access to parramatta through the ferry, forcing transfers if they want to avoid the ferry (or if parramatta wharf gets flooded). i also think newington is a prime location for a station for similar reasons to wentworth point (it lacks density now, but has potential for it). lilyfield doesn't have a station going in because it already has light rail, which gives direct access to the city, and those that live in lilyfield are unlikely to be working in parramatta. couple things i wanted to add as a local about the line, given i think it could have been a lot better (most probable reason why its as it is is because of the 20 minute promise)

Parramatta in that video from 5 years ago looks so different to how it looks now

A very interesting video. It's like the Westmead end, at least, of the line is ready to go. Does that mean it's going to sit there unused for the next 8 years, or did you just mean 2030 for total completion? Densification is one of the reason I got out of Sydney. I'm happy in my little town of

Nice video. It's quite dense..

Have you given enough emphasis to revenue/profit motives for station placements? Yes, the state government can recover some costs by selling land. But councils and developers have billion-dollar motives for influencing station placement. Imagine the furious lobbying going on when the station locations were being decided. And it goes without saying that huge profit motives and corruption go hand-in-hand. Was the 20-minute target just a glossy headline for media outlets and voters? Even with just seven stops, it may not be achievable in peak times. And if it can't be achieved, who will get the blame? Govenment or unions?

Maybe they just thought they already have the Parramatta light rail that will pass through Camellia, if they include Camellia, then they have to leave out another station. But it is not too late, if they want to add a station in the middle later on. They can still do it in the future.

at first when i saw olynpic park as a station io was like why just not have lidcombe but then i remembered it would allow for quicker access for people who live across the metro lne to acess olympic park quicker if they were going to the easter show or state of origin or the nrl grand final

Thank you! The lack of a connection between the Parramatta Light Rail and the metro seems like madness to me, especially since it lacks a connection to Epping. For each of the 10,000s of people along the PLR corridor who commute towards the city, such a connection would save nearly 20 minutes itself, and I wouldn't mind it taking 23 minutes to get between the City and Parramatta if it reduces car commuters in that corridor. 'Engineering challenges' also seems a cop-out, given all the challenges the government has overcome to build road tunnels everywhere. I don't think they're as committed to public transport as they like to say, especially given how half-arse some PT projects have been, such as the L1 to Dulwich Hill, and its terrible connections to the T1 and T3. I stated these concerns during the comment period, and asked exactly what the engineering challenges are, but didn't really get a satisfactory answer. It sounds like you were able to get more details, but reached a similar conclusion.

As a former resident of Westleigh I approve this message

Agree with you re Camelia. And the contamination problem could have been solved by going above ground like parts of the NW metro. Then the govt could have put in the basic shell of a station at Camelia now, and completed it when the area was redeveloped.

This is more of a RM Transit question, since it's so general, but is adding infill stations to metros a thing? Apart from Camellia and Silverwater, I think there are metro stations missing at Thompson's Corner and Lane Cove National Park, and probably more. Infill stations happen all the time above ground, and I recently noticed how they'd widened the platforms at some London Tube stations since I was previously there, by boring a new tunnel for trains in one direction and extending the other platform across the trackbed they originally used. But if a future government realises the lack of a station at Camellia was a mistake, could they create one? Or is the tunnel being bored too far out of the way? What about Thompson's Corner, which the line definitely does go straight under, and could be a place to interchange with Pennant Hills Road buses, or maybe even a Parramatta Light Rail link beyond Carlingford?

The Sydney Metro isn't a Metro. In London or Paris, if a station is closed, it's generally a 5 minute walk to the next station. Look at the Metro North West section. Apart from not building the link from Tallawong to Schofields heavy rail (2km!) the distance between Cherrybrook and Epping, Epping and Macquarie University and North Ryde and Chatswood are too long. I appreciate that in some parts of the route it is impossible to build a station due to decisions made when the Epping-Chatswood line was constructed, but it doesn't seem too hard to have made it better in the first place.

At the moment for the majority of the day from Parramatta to central a suburban train takes around 27min and a mountains train is around 20min

Why not have a no stop Parramatta to City line built next to the all stop local line?

Camellia is a definite need for a station, and extending to La Perouse is logical. But why no mention of a line to Mona Vale? It is a glaring mistake that the north east of Sydney is not served by rail.

The problem of youth - learning enough stuff fast enough. The government wanted a non-stop Parramatta-Sydney service, some MPs wants stops in their suburbs - so we got a bit of both. The Sydney Terminal Station can handle 10 services each way per hour - half of a two track through station. The Cheap solution for non-stop services is to convert the terminal station into a through station and have a second city circle loop which could include Pyrmont, Bridge St and Kings Cross - it could interchange with metro west and the ES line. A 5th and 6th non-stop track between Granville and Homebush is very cheap. We should keep platforms 1 to 3 for tourist trains which would be a siding off the new intercity through lines. By having four platforms (2 island platforms) at Express stop stations, then four tracks with two side platforms at All-stops stations, and finally four, and even 6 track corridors we can provide rapid services to everybody with service frequency kept high to reduce dwell time and wait time at stations.

I don’t understand why they don’t do two tracks in each direction. Some suburban stations could be used to get people to larger stations with interchanges and have different express lines

Why couldn't they just build bypasses where express trains stopped at fewer stations, while local trains stopped at every station?

I had hoped that they would build it as 4 tracks, even if only for part of the route, so they could have more stations on a 'local' line. Then they'd serve the intermediate locations and not affect the 'express' services from Westmead. 1 or 2 would have 4 platforms so you could interchange.

Great and thought-provoking video, as usual! One thing that particularly stood out to me was the apparent conflict between the first two reasons given for building this line and the third reason that was given, in conjunction with the 20 minute travel time. The goals of reducing congestion and travel time between Parra and the City are solutions to extant problems that are, themselves, due to Sydney CBD-centric patterns of commuting. If Sydney becomes a "metropolis of three cities" and people can "live and work away from Sydney CBD" then end-to-end travel time between the two centres becomes much less important than being able to efficiently get to either centre from anywhere in between. It seems to me that a solution that solves today's problems will be poorly suited to tomorrow's reality. PS: I strongly believe that industrial areas should have stations. Not only do the people who work in them deserve efficient and affordable transport to and from work but their transport costs are also part of labour costs.

I mean, there is a possibility of express trains, right?

A lot of people that work around Hunter St in the city don't live out west. There needs to be a few more stations in the CBD or make it go further east.

What I like about the Sydney Metro West is I will be able to get on the train at Pyrmont and go straight to Olympic Park without changing lines at Lidcombe.

I've come late into this discussion and although I generally support the principle of Metro West, the justification for it as a priority and the final outcome leaves a lot to be desired. The primary justifications are to relieve congestion on the T1 Western & Richmond Lines and to provide faster journey times from Parramatta to the Sydney CBD. In the case of the former, it's an outright lie, as the greatest overcrowding on T1 prior to Covid was west of Parramatta, which Metro West will do nothing to address. There is ample spare capacity on the existing T1 quad west of Parramatta to run more services to reduce overcrowding (currently 22tph including 4xBMT and 2xT5, with an inherent capacity of 40tph) , but because of the constrained rail corridor to the east towards the CBD, there are no spare paths available to reach the CBD. While Metro West certainly does significantly increase capacity from Parramatta to the CBD, it would rely on forced interchange for increased Sydney Trains' services from the west. It is not practicable to terminate more T1 services at Westmead or Parramatta in the morning peak, nor would commuters heading for destinations east of Parramatta take kindly to it when they've always enjoyed a direct service. Suggestions have been made to redirect Richmond Line services via the T5 Cumberland Line, which would be similarly unpopular. There are actually more exists at Parramatta than entries in the morning peak. Following community consultation and TfNSW own research of Opal data for future services on the remnant T3 Line after metro conversion of the Bankstown Line, there was overwhelming support for reinstatement of the direct Liverpool via Regents Park service to the CBD via the T2 Inner West Line, rather than being forced to interchange to the metro at Bankstown. There will no longer be a direct service from Liverpool to Bankstown until such time as the metro is extended, if ever. A shuttle service will be provided between Lidcombe and Bankstown. There's a lesson there for future services on the T1 Line and Metro West. A far better and less expensive solution to congestion on T1 in the short term, would be to complete sextuplication between Homebush and Granville to decouple it from T2 and utilise the spare capacity on the Main from Strathfield to Sydney Terminal, which only has 12tph in the morning peak. The sextup can be constructed mostly on the surface wholly within the existing rail corridor, with a short tunnel section between Flemington and Auburn to bypass the constrained rail corridor through Lidcombe. It would be an express line with no intermediate stations, so cheap to build. This would allow increased services from west of Parramatta/Westmead to run direct to the CBD without interchange being required. A longer term option would be to extend the express tunnel from Flemington to Strathfield and then on a straighter alignment to new underground stations at Redfern, Central (Railway Square), Town Hall West and Wynyard, as proposed for the City Relief Line from the Main at Eveleigh. The issue of relative journey times from Parramatta to the CBD is also misleading, as it doesn't define what is the actual CBD destination. Is it Hunter St or Central? Central is the primary focus of the rail network where interchange is possible to all other lines, including light rail. Under the current T1 timetable, the fastest journey time from Parramatta to Central is 25 minutes for BMT Intercity, with one stop at Strathfield, and 26 minutes for T1 Suburban, with stops at Strathfield and Redfern. It should be remembered that this is under the current timetable which was slowed down in 2005 to improve on-time running statistics. There has been no comparison with improved journey times on the existing network, not to mention frequencies, which will be achieved with the proposed digital signalling and ATO upgrades. Claims that Metro West, with an all stations service, will provide superior journey times to the CBD are misguided at best. This is where the whole concept of the current Metro West plan has fallen down. It's trying to provide different service levels on a single line, of fast journey times, while attempting to maximise its passenger catchment, which is typical of a high capacity metro service. They're oil and water. The fixation of a journey time of 20 minutes to the CBD (to where exactly?) is compromising its potential catchment, by restricting the number of stations along the route, when a similar journey time would be achievable at far less cost with the proposed upgrades to the Sydney Trains network. They have to make up their minds about what should be its primary function. To my mind, it should be to provide a rail service along a new corridor between Parramatta and the CBD by maximising its catchment area with more stations, regardless of whether it satisfies developers. Don't existing inner city suburbs off the rail network , which are generally of a higher density anyway, deserve a rail service? The journey time, although still fast, should be a secondary consideration. This is why I don't regard it as being a priority, when upgrades to the existing network which can provide faster express services, should come before it. It's academic now, but I don't regard the current Metro West route as being ideal. I would have preferred the former Labor government's West Metro route from the CBD to Parramatta via the more southerly Parramatta Rd corridor through Camperdown and Leichhardt. It had more stations, including the major rail junction at Strathfield. Pyrmont and the Bays Precinct could be served by a future Victoria Rd metro line to at least Ryde on a similar alignment to the previous abandoned North West Metro proposal.

I actually wrote to the NSW shadow transport minister about the gaps in the Western metro line and she said she'll look into it. Make of that what you will