I like the idea that there are creatures, or beings, that remain mysterious and unexplained. Deconstructing every last detail of the world would rob it of mystery - and by extension, enjoyment.
So true. I love lovecraftian horror and i cant help but think this was tolkien's nod to him. Im so fascinated with the nameless things and a part of me would love to see SOMETHING that gives us an idea of what they are but youre right. In some cases, the questions are better than answers especially when it comes to ancient agents of darkness and destruction
@@rjzavala87 Amen to that! I've been watching a few video essays on the Nameless Things. It's a very compelling concept! One of them cited one of Tolkien's letters - in which he stated that not everything in the world needed explaining. Ungoliant, Shelob, the Watcher, the Nameless Things - I LOVE the idea that there were dark powers that even Morgoth and Sauron didn't touch!
Gandalf indicates that the Balrog was almost a "comfort" A being he understood that he needed to chase. What confronted them both made even the Balrog look "ordinary" as a foe to be understood. Was even the Balrog afraid? Gandalf does not say this outright, but who knows??
I don't see how the nameless things could be older than Sauron or Gandalf. Sauron and Gandalf were present with Iluvatar when the world was sang into existence
I know Tolkien never wrote it, but I have a theory. That things were in the Void before the Timeless Halls and Eü, things as old as Erü but not all powerful like Erü, but also outside of his power. And that after Arda was formed, they wormed into the circles of the world, slinking into the deep places under shadow in the earliest days, deeper and deeper until they came to the very roots of the world. They aren't evil, they just ARE the opposite of Erü's creationism; nihilism I guess. Making them older than Sauron and Melkor. It's probably a good thing they're down there and not up on the surface or too close to "the deepest delving of the Dwarves". They're is a letter by Tolkien I believe, about Ungoliant, where he says that maybe Ungoliant is a personification of the Void and it's hunger, so it wouldn't be too out of the question I think. They could also be the manifestation of Melkor's contempt, hatred, jealousy, malice, rebellion, and evil that he put into his chords during the Ainurlindale. The Ainurlindale didn't make Eü and Arda, Erü made those BASED OFF the Ainurlindale they sung. Hence why there is some cruelty in the world. But I'd like a game set in these deep slimy lightless chasms and caverns😊
@traceygamer20 I would agree with this interpretation. Those creatures where created from songs sung by Melkor. Personifications of the worst parts buried deep in the roots of the world. Perhaps parts of them had existed before creation in the void, finally given form by Melkor's song.
Well, “Sauron” didn’t always exist from the beginning, Mairon did. “Gandalf” didn’t exist until a millennium into the 3rd age. Not sure if that’s what was meant but it’s one angle from which it could be correct.
@@traceygamer20 A good take. Also important to remind ourselves that this is all fiction, so we will never know exactly who/what/where/when/why/how everything is, just as J.R.R. Tolkien didn't know it all either, as he first sketched, then fleshed out his creation; only having the span of a normal human life to contemplate and update his work. I sense a lot of metaphor here too, as well as some concepts likely borrowed (consciously or not) from H.P. Lovecraft's recurring themes and characters. Even if Tolkien could have lived three lifespans, I suspect he would continue to develop, refine, then reevaluate and alter a variety of thins, while we, of only one lifespan, would not live to see the end. Those born much later would probably still encounter a vast store of lore that was yet not complete.
I would've wished some more (of your) well-educated speculation. To me, it seems Like they are in some substantial ways related to Ungolianth, who also crawled Out of the primordial darkness
I always thought of their origin as Melkors disruption and curruption as Arda was formed. When he brought his own influence in while the other Valar worked together. And twisted things in the foundation of the world itself.
I am probably not the only one who thinks of lovecraftian monsters when listening to this. It is the greatest kind of horror - the nameless, ancient beings so alien to us is that we can only imagine the archaic horror.
OMG there is the key-word about hinting on the Nameless Things indeed being kinda sensed by the Dwarves before and as they wake up Durin´s Bane - which they didn´t knew was a Balrog untill very late as the Fellowship met him - the word is GNAWED as Gandalf tells about them later on!!
Makes perfect sense that regardless on how mighty the Balrog were, there is no way one alone could make to get rid of ALL the Dwarves population in Moria, if by chance he wasn´t joined or aided by something else which in combination made so much confusing and deadly to properly identify it as a simple Balrog itself. After all though it has been a lot of time since the very last time, either the Elves, Dwarves or Men met a Balrog, they kinda ought to be well acknowledged somehow on the Ancient Stories of First Age, and as the First Original and Greater Dark Lord before Sauron, Morgoth rellyied heavily on their help too then. The Balrog seems to have known them more than anyone, so sad he couldn´t tell more about it.
It makes perfect sense to connect those foreboding foreshadows of an unknown ancient horror and larger danger than the Orcs on Moria, however as the Balrog/Durin´s Bane hadn´t been found what it was before meeting it, and its true nature was also unknown, that foreboding sense of ancient doom could be implying it at the same.
Meh, a lot of overthinking here. Most of the quotations are, in the best traditions of storytelling, teeing-up the Balrog for his grand entrance. All this talk of other, malevolent forces ignores that Moria was repopulated under Durin VII and held until dwarves ended. Sure, the Nameless things, they're alluded to entities, but their influence on the narrative is being overstated.
The existence of the Nameless Things hints that regardless of the Dwarves regaining Moria´s domain some time later after the end of The Lord of the Rings story, on the Fourth Age, they might not be ever lasting after all, and an impending DOOM will came from the deeppest regions of their domain as before and perhaps even more deadly than with the Balrog before.
Tolkiens world is actually so thinly grazed trough on the big screen, and its such a shame. i mean i guess we have rings of power now wich just does not do tolkien justice imo. this video however..
Looks like Eru Illuvatar is indeed the monster that Melkur always claimed He was and that Eru wanted evil and terror and suffering for Arda . Melkur was right all along .
I was under the impression that these creature we song into being by Melkor when his part of the song was sung in counter point to the love and harmony sung by the rest of the Valar. He wove greed, jealousy and hatred into the world.
@@christophermetzger8183 Eru created Melkor in his own image and set him loose on that world. I don't give the creator and enabler of monsters a pass . Melkor was right to hate Eru .
@vasp99 Melkor had free will. He was made in the image of his father, Eru Illuvatar, but his actions are his own. Perhaps Eru could have spent more time shaping Melkor maybe Melkor would not turn out to be such a petty child. I don't know, but Melkor decide early on to try and trash the song of creation and the world of Arada. I never ready silmarillion so I don't know Melkor motivation.
@@christophermetzger8183 there's no such thing as free will in Tolkien's version of the Old Testament . Eru's intensely sadistic treatment of humanity is straight out of Sodom and Gamorrah . Everything other than the fall of Numenor is decorative . Tolkien may never have admitted to hating god but everything he wrote depicts intentional suffering inflicted by a creator on his creations . The Valar are pathetic milksops who just can't rescue middle earth because that's the way the creator created his creation . Tolkien saw the horrors of life and tried to stamp an acceptable reason for those horrors . Tolkien utterly failed to do so .
@@christophermetzger8183 Melkor wanted "to create things of his own" without asking for help from Eru, and accidentally caused chaos into the song. He then tried to reorder the Valar's creations, and his first evil deed appears to be kidnapping sleeping elves and men for use in the First War. To be fair, Eru/Yhwh does all the stuff in the Bible that Melkor/Satan does in the Legendarium: "If Peter Griffin gets to be a jerk all the time why not Donald Trump?"
However as I know it´s Gandalf personality he just couldn´t have left aside this new knowledge about a foreboding ancient powerfull evil source on the future, and leave Middle Earth just as that, so he kinda have made up something on secret, being therefore his very last meeting with Tom Bombadill and the unknown issues they disscused on. Then maybe... that´s how Gandalf realizes the true nature of Tom himself, and sets up to have a proper counsel or plan against these lurking evils.
Theres three kinds of knowledge; the known, the unknown and the unknowable. Gandalf the known, the balrog the unknown and the nameless things are the unknowable
Though the mention of Nameless Things is so awesome and scariest over the top it also seems to be BUG or GLITCH and CRACK on the reality of the same fabric of creation and foundations on Tolkien´s world because this implies something BEYOND either by Illuvatar´s planning and neither Melkor´s corruption´s will at the same. The only other alike it, is Ungoliant on the Silmarillion, however this implies issues that made Illuvatar a bit less than perfect as he seems and that outside his domains happens to be even a larger multiverse or something greater than him and his creation, that could be more powerfull than him and oftenly against him too.
I think you might be wrong, Gandalf 's metaphysical journey wasn't in the bowels of the earth. He fell with the Balrog into the Abyss, chased it to the peak, and then fought it, falling with it as they destroyed the mountain. Then his spirit travelled to Valinor and was sent by the Valar as Gandalf the white.
11:13 Might you have misspoken? Gandalf pursued the Balrog deep into the roots of Earth where they might have encountered the Nameless Things but they duelled all the way up to the peaks where he defeatd & threw Balrog down. Gandalf is fully spent & after that, passes out, awaiting his judgment, really unable to do anything mor, let alone journey again through the deepest places?
So what or who were the hordes of orcs that took over Moria eating? There weren't settlements nearby to raid, they certainly aren't farmers and there is no mention of Mordor's logistics corps arranging wagon convoys to such far off outposts
There are many cave-dwelling cultures in recorded history: the Puebloans, the Dine peoples, the cloud dwellers of Colombia, the cave dwellers of Turkiye (sic), and Tibetic ascetics in the Greater Himalayas. These cultures farmed crops and animals in the caves and just outside them, and Moria had a cleft in the roof like a canyon. These peoples also gathered, and Moria seems to be as big as the well-known gigantic caves with their own ecosystems and wind currents. Also, the Wood-men and the Beornings lived next to Moria, as did the Eagles (and presumably rooks, wrens, and thrushes), and the Wargs would have had plenty of wolf food like deer and such.
How much evil can one really get up to down there? Clearly they’re not evil enough to have ever came up to the surface to cause shit. There I’ll be down there to survive and happy they don’t have to fucking talk to Wizard’s and shit
Exactly right?? They just dwelve in the depths of the earth not really doing anything evil, serial killers, rapists, criminals in general do a lot more evil than these things that dont really seem to do anything…🤷🏻🤷🏻they lamee
If you actually read the book sauron was not even that powerful he just had an ambitious mind to rule. There are a lot of being more darker and more evil but they don't think the other realm was an importance to rule or conquer.
Hmm,... Gandalf mets by chance the Nameless Things before his final meeting and showdown battle against the Balrog where he dies of exhaustation and so his soul goes beyond all into Illuvatar´s original domains and it´s HE who sends him back renewed as Gandalf the White then. This passage is very mystical and mysterious but has NOTHING darker about it, specially after this happens a while after the very last time he met the Nameless Things by passing on change near to them and got away from them too.
Ahem. Smaug came from the Forodwaith (North Wastes in Sindaran I believe). Plenty of Dragons live up there actually. Dragons sacked a few Dwarf strongholds and colonies in the Ered Mithrin (Grey Mountains) before Smaug came down. They're up there because Melkor bred the race of Dragons in the First Age, starting with the wingless Glaorun, then the winged Dragons during the War of Wrath at the end of the First Age. When Melkor was beaten, his forces scattered to far away places or dark places they could hide. The Dragons went Forod. Smaug is also not the last Dragon. He's the last GREAT Dragon. There are still dragons living up there, much weaker then Smaug or Ancalagon the Black (greatest winged Dragon ever), but still up there. They most likely die off tho before the 5th Age, maybe early 4th Age
@@traceygamer20 Since dragons are mentioned in medieval times and were still believed in in the late 19th century in southern Sweden, with mysticism becoming popular worldwide, it seems they survived to that time... and "The Father Christmas Letters" talk mention dragons working with goblins. Smaug is the last great dragon we know of, and it is implied that there are plenty of them: the Dwarves lost the war with them after all I believe.
Tolkien was one of the best storytellers of all time, and he used all kinds of techniques to keep the reader’s attention. By creating an enigma he triggered the reader’s own imagination to figure out what this could be. Something so scary that you can’t even talk about and that doesn’t have a name sounds really frightening. People tend to be afraid of the unknown. Compare it to the clickbait you will find on internet today. An other enigma is Tom Bobadill. Who or what is he. He is not evil and is a side note in the story of the rings and the simarillion. Again it triggers the reader’s imagination4. Maybe that is the intention of these enigmas in the first place. Compare it to a pretty girl in a tiny bikini. She looks more sexy in that bikini that hardly covers anything than she would if she was butt naked. Your imagination fills out the blanks and makes it more interesting. A more family friendly alternative is Donald Duck and his friends. Normally they walk around without pants and looks dressed, but when they go to the beach they put on old style bathing suits and looks undressed. Again your brain is playing tricks on you. Tolkien had a whole arsenal of tricks he used in his storytelling.😅😅😅
Maybe they are older in the sense that they have been longer on Arda. The Ainur sung Arda into creation, including the nameless things (or as a byproduct of the discord), and descended into Arda after they were already created. So they are older in that sense.
Just wait Amazon will give it a name and make it some fat gross Yass Queen of diverse colors of a rainbow. It'll be god awful and it'll make you thankful there are channels like this and geeks&gamers heels vs Babyface nerdrotic for destroying brain cells watching the slop to let us know it's worse then we thought it ever could be.
