On one character that I was choosing not to join the thieves guild, so when I got to Riften I circled around the market to avoid Brynolf. He followed me, walking slowly, until he got to the edge of the market and then just stood there staring at me with his sad puppy dog face.
Yeah true. Reminds me of how Morag Tong was such an important and famous faction in Morrowind back in the days. These are the type of guild that just go deeper and plays a larger role in the society.
I think every guild has the potential to be very interesting ! It’s a shame that some guilds are clearly lacking depth gameplay wise but also quest wise.
I think you can make a lot of comparisons with the Mages' Guild. It has the same paradox of being a coalition of individualists. A lot of the quests in TES III reflect this idea that they're a bunch of asshole wizards with selfish motivations. Several quests have to do with stealing from other members and sabotaging their research, even though this strictly contradicts the rules you agree to follow when joining the Guild. As much as they say that they're the antithesis of the Great House Telvanni, they have more than one thing in common.
@@thomastakesatollforthedark2231bandits attacked her farm and killed her family when she was young. The bandits abducted her and passed her around the camp for a fortnight. She slit their throats while they were sleeping to escape.
@@thomastakesatollforthedark2231 they should to begin with. Sapphire's story is what made my Khajiit thief take up necromancy and a love of black soul gems.
The book Michael mentioned is "Myth or Menace" in oblivion. It mentions that the thieves guild in Morrowind was possibly wiped out, but that some historians believe that they just went deeper undercover. The only canon is whatever your Nerevarine chose, whether to wipe out the thieves guild leaders, or get rid of the corrupt head of the fighters guild
It does get annoying though. Like, we get it. Skyrim isn't perfect. Take off the rose-tinted shades and understand that the lore has always been far more fleshed out than seen in game.
@@MidoriOfTheShuinsen There are a number of items they seem to always bring up, regarding certain games, or parts of lore they don't like. Which gets draining because we get it.... Such as when it comes to ESO most of the time. We know how you feel, don't need to bring it up all the time.
On the topic of guild progression, the Oblivion Mages Guild did it really well. The fact you have to go to every city and get a reference for your acceptance into the college, before the storyline even starts, makes it feel so much more fulfilling once you get there and can finally use the spell crafting table etc. Being forced to use a different school of magic in those initial mission made it a proper initiation into a magic guild. It’s an area in which The College of Winterhold was very disappointing.
Thanks to the Fudgemuppet team! Out of all the elder scrolls channels I follow, yours is definitely my favorite. I enjoy watching these videos along with my morning coffee!
I got the impression that the thuggish quality of the Thieves guild in Riften is because of its decline. In fact Riften's trade and ports have done very poorly and the timeline checks out that the city's economy started tanking around the collapse of the Thieve's Guild. So I definitely think that the guild contributed to the financial stability of the city.
For the thieves guild in Skyrim I would bring a town back into the fold after a main mission. Before the the last main mission I brought all the towns back into the thieves guild. Then I did the last mission. The story felt better to me because of that. Like I brought the guild back to its former glory and get rid of the guy at the end who started it all. A lot more impactful instead of just running through the main quest and coming back to a broken mess of a guild.
That's basically what I do, I grind out the radiant quests, get the town missions done, and suddenly Mercer seeing you as a threat makes a lot more sense.
A thieves guild that's really principled about the stealing from the rich thing despite the nature of Nocturnal and so on would be interesting, perhaps focused on the boons one gets from being legitimately charitable.
Drew's story with Brynjolf reminded me of a thing that happened back in 2011, where my guitar teacher at the time was a super RPG nerd and we'd spend a lot of time after practice just talking about RPG's and he told me that he would never join with the Stormcloaks in the civil war because when he played Stormcloaks first and Ulfric glitched the fuck out and would not talk to his character when he had to bring back the axe from Balgruuf
I always felt a little cross when I want to roleplay a thief in Skyrim but don't want to contract my eternal servitude to Daedric Prince. It almost makes me not want to progress past a certain point in the Thieves Guild questline so it isn't a part of my character's "cannon". However, I found myself creating an intricate soul-selling loophole to help "suspend my disbelief": Nocturnal owns my soul if I want to be the Thieves Guild Master, but if I were to then become a werewolf or vampire, my soul NOW belongs to either Hircine or Molag Bal respectively (being a werewolf makes an unnecessary extra step). I then go to Falion in Morthal and get him to cure my vampirism. Now my soul is "mine" again and the Master of the Thieves Guild just stole their eternal servitude from the Patron of Thieves, free now to go to whatever afterlife I please. (I can never roleplay an immortal thief because money starts to mean nothing after a few weeks of eternity.)
I love these podcasts keep up the great work! I'd love to see one that talks about the difference between Aetherius and oblivion (if there is one) because I've been confused how the Daedra and Aedera are only different because of where they sided with Lorkhan and yet they reside in totally different places
The character I started last week just joined the thieves guild and became a nightingale today, and this is the day they release a podcast on the thieves guild. I love it.
You guys are killing it. I'm just getting back into ESO/Elder Scrolls lore but I got atleast 100 bucks with your names on it if you guys keep entertaining me like this. Thanks for the quality content.
31:30 It seems like Bryjnolf is more of the thug and scam artist thief type instead of the sneaky type. I mean you find him in Riften’s market selling “Falmerblood Elixir,” and he also sends you on the debt collection quest.
I actually understand the wanting to become a nightingale thing The lower ranked thiefs are the ones who are just starting and as you do more and more jobs you accumulate wealth and so the higher ranked ones probably just do it for the thrill or fame and become nightingale is the pinnacle of that Also I see a lot of Pokémon stuff on Drew's background, so obviously I got to ask Pokémon podcast when?
At this point, I just assume Mr. “Morang” Tong is just BSing you. There’s probably an explanation that a dev wanted a reference to the Tong and sloppily put it in the Thieves Guild, but I like to think that he’s trying to look tough. He knows all of Tamriel would know and fear the Tong and since they don’t seem able to correct him, he just gets away with it. I mean, what Dunmer calls them “Morang” Tong?
There are 3 nightingales who made a pact for their sect in Skyrim. The thieves guild didn’t steal in riften, they acted more like a mafia family there and did their thieving elsewhere
I know people refer to the D&D handbook cover for the reference to stealing the Falmer eyes from that great statue, but that has a previous reference. The 1940 movie “Thief of Bagdad” has a gigantic Hindi style statue in which the thief, Abu (Sabu) climbs to steal a large gem, the All Seeing Eye.
I just hate Brynjolf. No matter how I've gained my coin, he implies that I did it through elicit means. It's like "Bitch, I delved into dwemer ruins and crafted enough dwarven bows to supply an attack on Red Mountain! Don't you dare insinuate that I'm some common criminal!"
Screw the Thieves Guild I wish there was a way to kill them all same for killing Maven Black-Briar. I never played it cause it is so disgusting. Also with the Dark Brotherhood I like how it was structured cause I don't care for all those secondary assassinations I literally just did the bare minimum and mainly liked killing the emperor and liked Babette. Also the Companions main issue is only way to become Werewolf rather if could become a controllable Werewolf some other way then wouldn't be as big a deal. Also people don't want a complicated slow pace game like you are talking with the ranks and things. As for DLCs you are thinking too harshly part of it could simply be they have a deadline for the Main Game and ran out of time to add in all the stuff they want so the DLCs get released later cause they had more time to try and make up for the missed timeframe stuff.
I always think of the Brotherhood as one big organization broken up into a dozen cells (at its height) while the Thieves Guild is a dozens of different organizations more or less networked for fencing black market goods or trading information but never really answerable to one another, likely have different creeds or methods and probably don't coordinate except on the odd job here or there for mutual gain.
I love this channel cuz it's not some business plot propaganda gaming journalists bullshit...its just genuine Skyrim nerds who talk from a place of an actual fan because they are fans.
2:50 "its almost compatible to a workers union. Like they aren't their own faction. They work for themselves but they mutually benefit by helping each other" Huh, its almost like theyre a guild of thieves.
I really enjoy these podcasts, they both keep me entertained when I am doing boring work and teach me things I don't know or had forgotten about the Elder Scrolls. Hats off to you gentleman for the amazing work!
You know, some say certain members of the Thieves Guild will buy stolen goods. But some officials insist the Thieves Guild doesn't even exist. Its you. Hi.
I know I’m wayyyy late to the party. And I have not scrolled through the comments so I am not sure if it’s already been mentioned. But a thought about Nocturnal “not caring” about her artifacts being stolen (or her being incompetent in regards to this commonality), it’s probably just her way of perpetuating the cycle and acquiring more souls for her daedra realm. She’s not stupid, and she’s not incompetent. I’m sure she wants to encourage thievery of her artifacts, and in turn, competition amongst the humanoids of nirn, in order to (entertain herself, of course) but also to acquire souls for her realm. Love you guys, and maybe I’m an egotistical fuck, but I can’t believe none of you thought of this possibility. The members are all her subjects; in their desire to climb the ranks, they are tightening their own shackles when they finally make it to her domain.
I would like to see some quests in the upper ranks of the Thieves' Guild focus on stealing non-physical things, such as hope or love. I think those type of quests would be quite memorable.
Cyrodil thieves guild-*doesn't steal from poor* The poor-😀😄😁 Also Cyrodil thieves guild-*doesn't give enough gold to poor to be unpoor but just enough so poor can be beggars so they can spy for them* The poor-😧😐😑 Skyrim thieves guild-*yeah no pretence we're thugs we will straight up rob your a$$* Skyrim citizens-*we appreciate your honesty* 🤷🏽♂️
“Oh y’all are the stealth faction? Like sneak, assassination and pickpocketing?” “Oh no, its the dark brotherhood that do Assassinations for money.” “Oh but y’all have a female daedric overlord right?” “Uh sort of. Most of us don’t actually know about the Nocturnal stuff, you’re thinking of the Moraq Tong.” “But y’all have the strong ethnic identity right?” “We’re generally imperials? Sometimes we have a nord or dark elf. You’re thinking of Camonna Tong.” “So what do you guys have?” “Cool light armor and neat people.”
Marco Polo spoke of a man in a mountain. He was all like: "bro we should totally take bong hits!" ...and people were like: "totally"....after smoking themselves silly, they would fall asleep and wake up in paradise! As u know - when in paradise - thou shalt take copious bong hits on top of copious bong hits! After a night in paradise, they would wake up again...not in paradise! Z man in z mountain then said: "serve me as HASHASSINS! I shall deliver thee back 2 paradise (and bong hits, as it were). It seems that none made it back. Why? In my scholarly opinion: ginger conspiracy! Isn't it obvious?
I'd love to see Elder Scrolls 6 go full crime syndicate with the Theives Guild. It was an interesting idea in Skyrim but you kinda just amounted to Maven's go getters and the whole Nightingale stuff
Morrowind has never been conquered. Yall really have forgotten this lol. It was a settlement that Vivec ALLOWED to join the empire with Tiber Septim. And only because they had a much bigger problem with Dagoth Ur. Fun fact Vivec beat Tiber 1v1
Misconception of Thieves. They do not always need to be shadowy sneaky purse snatchers or burglars. Rather if you include MERCHANTS into the ranks. And the "Merchant" Guild as more of a front. Then, the Thieves Guild is one of the most powerful guilds in the world (any world). As a merchant can travel anywhere. Legally or illegally. Trading in legal goods or smuggling in illegal goods. Literally a thief in every way but name. To make money and connections. Some would say "Robbing" people blind through underhanded tactics. Top it off a Politician or Nobleman(or woman) could also be seen as a Thief to some degree. Yet they would never completely agree to side with those they see as lowborns. Yet Thieves Guilds have been known in many lores to have plants in governments. Working the law and turning enemies into unlikely allies for the Guild. Plus the most coveted job any thief would strive for to look legal but still be a true master over thieves. Gaining the legal title as "Thief-Taker General" a badge of honor of being a Master Thief and one to NOT mess with. As you held a lot of power and have all the connections. One that holds tight leash on your band of rogues. While arresting and hanging those thieves that would not bend to your will and threaten your bottom line. To be a hero and a villain rolled into one. Yet all it takes is one other to expose your two-face scheme and the public going against you. To which your criminal empire crumbles. A balancing game that few can ever master. So this is how I feel about the Thieves Guild and really how I use it. A guild that can seemingly be crushed by a government that hates thieves. Yet if there is a Merchant Guild. There will always be a Thieves Guild. As Thieves are the most resourceful band of misfits in the world. If they put that effort into something far more productive. They could solve any problem lol.
I think size and stealth is a common trope in fantasy and one that doesn't take into consideration that you can both be very big and agile (look at gymnasts: while not tall, many are very muscular).
Every time I start a new game I plan to join the guild but it comes across as more thug-like than thief-like. Why do I have to prove my use by threatening three shops? Isn't that Maul's job? He sure noticed me when I entered the town. Now they all know I belong to the guild; so much for low profile! I hope Mjoll doesn't find out... My task should have been to steal those items without being caught.
13:37 That’s Karliah’s boyfriend. The thief who stole the staff piece for Tharn was Drayven Indoril. I’m sure that was just off the top of your head but I still wanted to say something. 🤓
I didnt really like oblivion i couldnt stand the elvish design and i more or less grew up on skyrim i just prefere skyrim graphics are better and every thing my first game was morrowind
To benefitting from thief organizations, one of my favorite fictional characters is the Patrician in Discworld who, as part of running the city, tells the thieves guild they have a quota of thefts to meet so that it always stays the same
I agree that the guilds especially the theives guild had so much potential but came up short as far as the quests. It definitely wasn't as immersive as I would of liked and completely unrealistic. I don't like the idea of a ton of grinding but I think that there needed to be more done to unlock certain quests in the guilds. Also maybe being able to interact more with npcs where you are building a repore especially if the end goal is to make you a leader of that guild. I am really hoping that there will be some more positive changes in that respect for TES6
Just wanted to say that on the topic about whether Nocturnal lets the Skeleton Key be stolen from her because she doesn't understand its power-- she tried to use it to steal the entirety of The Clockwork City away from Seht. Perhaps she lets it be stolen as an initial test of who is a worthy thief, and she wants to see the kind of metaphysical doors they can open because thieves naturally get around to places others don't.
I think I understand why they didn't take the items like when they leave the mark saying yeah there's going to lose here probably because of the fact that they're caring too much so what they leave they have to put a marker saying yes they're still stuff here that's just my guess
