In all the years of watching these shows, you two are probably my favorite pairing. The banter and conversation between calls is hilarious, educational, and interesting. I hope to see you two doing this again soon.
It is quite ironic how Christianity claims "mankind was created in God's image," but in reality, it seems the vast majority of Christians have created a god in their own image.
I was born and raised in Oklahoma but I had to leave. Being poor in Oklahoma is dangerous. Highest incarceration rate in the world, some of the highest crime in the country, worst education, lowest paying jobs, and cops have no oversight. I'm now in Colorado which is only slightly better but I can be myself without fear
Regarding Vihaans call and his sentiment, a few years back I started to begin many conversations with theists by asking them if they are cultural religious or in fact spiritual religious. You can get quite some interesting conversations and the facial expressions from a lot of them while they ponder are priceless!
Man Seth, you have just the greatest voice. You should do a radio hour just for fun. Play your favorites add some "baby" lines and rack up the super chats.
I have so much empathy for the first caller. You can tell that he wants to learn, he wants to know more, but there’s just that one big thing tying him back, and it’s hard to argue against his reasoning. I wish him the best.
Regarding Tyler when I was kid my Mum had a cure all go to statement whenever I felt depressed or struggled with feelings; "You make an awfully small parcel when you are wrapped up in yourself" nowadays this would be classed as shaming disguised as toxic positivity. I wish I could go back in time and clap back with a sarcastic "Oh fantastic! I don't believe it, I'm cured!"
Img you guys I'm at 2:11:39 right now and I just got approached by 3 jehovah's witnesses. It's crazy to pause this livestream as they are saying who they are
Love this team up! Seth and Forest are great together! I relate a lot to the first caller. I've had experiences that have lead me a certain way, but i know I can't recreate or demonstrate them; at least all testing had failed or to shotty success. It's not about the culture for me, though there is a flair to that. It's about the security and feeling i get when i do the "ritual". It's almost like a meditation that calms me. It's a blurry line between "all in my head, poetic interpretation of reality" or "divinely influenced". 🤔
I get that you shouldn't interact with trolls. But the problem is whether or not you know someone's a troll. Avoiding someone who may or may not be a troll can in fact result in you missing out on a genuine discussion. And when you can have a debate with someone, disagree, but come out of it not hating each other, that is a very satisfying feeling.
I think one of the defining characteristics of a troll is that they're arguing in bad faith, and because of that they're doing things like employing logical fallacies, or just restating their same position even when presented with direct logical contradiction, or just changing the topic rather than admit when something they've said is shown to be incorrect. These things make genuine discussion impossible, unfortunately
Well, I find it kinda scary, living in this land of Oz. Sometimes I just want to click my heels an wake up in the real world, if there is one! I get tired of trying to fit
My biological father asked me one time, what did I learn from all the spankings? I told him, the human body can feel only so much pain. After that you don't give a damn
People want everlasting life. Though i dont know if everlasting life exists, im not going to believe it exists on faith. My faith is in science and the scientific method which seeks truth.
Scientific hypothesis must be falsifiable. That is to say IF it is the case the hypothesis is wrong, there must be some way to show it's wrong. In order for a hypothesis to actually be classified as a "scientific hypothesis" it has to be falsifiable. The God hypothesis does not actually qualify as an actual hypothesis, because it is unfalsifiable, so it is not an actual hypothesis at all. It's nothing more than conjecture.
Vihaan argued that failing to falsify an hypothesis means you should accept it. What he needs to understand is that in order to apply that argument to any hypothesis, first your hypothesis must actually be falsifiable. That is, it must predict something about reality that should *NOT* happen, then doing everything in your power to bring about that thing. Only when you have repeatedly failed to bring about that thing do you accept that the hypothesis could be true, and even then you should never stop trying to falsify it. But if you falsify it just once, you must reject it, and either replace it with a different hypothesis or modify it to accommodate the new stuff you have learned in the process of trying to falsify it. Example: for a long time it was believed that all swans were white, meaning that the prediction would be that you couldn't find a swan that wasn't white. This held until black swans were found on the Darling river in Australia, thereby instantly falsifying that particular hypothesis. It was replaced with the better hypothesis that swans could be black or white. There are variants of the god hypothesis that are unquestionably unfalsifiable. "God caused the Big Bang" is one of them - there are currently no conceivable tests we could do to try to falsify that because it refers to something unreachable from observable reality. It is also useless as an explanation of anything since it makes no predictions about anything at all, and hence explains nothing. Other god hypotheses which invoke wholly supernatural things like an afterlife, or a soul, are also untestable by definition and therefore useless as explanations of anything. The more usual god hypotheses associated with Biblical literalism *ARE* falsifiable, and are falsified all the time. In essence, such god hypotheses predict that there should *NOT* be natural explanations for those otherwise ostensibly natural things attributed to the actions of a god, like the diversity of life, the creation and age of the earth, or the historical record of human life on this planet. Unfortunately for those who believe such god hypotheses, there are indeed testable natural explanations of all those things backed up by large amounts of robust empirical and interlinked evidence. These falsify the literalist god hypotheses at every turn, forcing the proponents of such hypotheses into either trying to deny reality in ever more extreme and insane ways, or to constantly retrench their hypotheses into the ever decreasing areas where a fully formed natural explanation is still lacking, i.e., a god of the gaps argument. Lastly, god hypotheses that apply supernatural forces to shaping events in observable reality, such as miracles or resurrections, fail on both of the above accounts. By definition, the supernatural part remains undetectable and hence untestable, and the parts that are the detectable actions in physical reality have never been shown either to be real or lacking a natural explanation.
Religion is a lot like modern conspiracy theories - I often ask believers: How do you know that you are not the one being conned by the deep state or the devil?
It’s always uncomfortable for me when someone who is clearly struggling with mental illness or thinking disorders calls in to the show. IMO the hosts should have a plan for how to end the call and recommend how to find help. If they already have a therapist, you don’t want to risk stepping in front of that relationship.
Seth, I listened to a podcast aboyt the science of community and it showed how people most often would rather die a physical death than a social one. Hence people dying from Covid, while denying Covid, because of the views of their social safety 'tribe'
Kent Hovind is being handled quite expertly by atheist junior. AJ gets more views than Kent by nearly 10x and almost all his videos are responding to Kent and calling him out for his lies and misdeeds. AJ shows the charlatan the exact amount of respect he deserves. His impression is spotless.
It's funny that experiences can be so different. I grew up completely opposite of Joshua, not knowing anyone took the (magical) myths in the bible as reliable history until well into my teenage years. I'd heard stories but to me they yook up the same space as the myths of the Greek and norse gods, the fables and moral stories I were told. Of course I saw their significance as greater to some extent due to the culture around it, but never as literal. To be fair only around 20% of my country's population sees religion as an important part of their lives, so the idea that people would so completely disregard reality didn't really set in until I encountered flat earthers and through debunks of them the broader atheist/sceptic part of RU-vid. Now I know I'm just living in an especially irreligious country and what I would see as extreme is the norm in other places.
Could you suggest an easy to read book on evolution for a 50 y.o adult? This woman I know, as well as myself, live here in Texas and were never taught about evolution. At this point and the careers we're in, it's not necessary that we become experts but I think she was raised that it's 'evil' (the reason our science teachers weren't allowed to teach it) back then.
@Rogueshow: your only response to the claim that says your atheism is the cause of your depression, is "go kick rocks!", and I'm looking for a new therapist.
Sorry, Seth, Kung Fu Fighting came out in 1974, not the same decade as Wang Chun. And Sorry Forrest, you weren't there, YES EVERYBODY was Kung Fu Fighting!
Seth made a pretty good point about people who are deconstructing needing a community to fall back on. And maybe that's why being antisocial made leaving and deconstructing easy for me. I wasn't worried about losing friends and family over it, and I didn't need that sense of community.
Regarding the point of being a theist makes you religious. I think being religious would include some type of worship of the god you believe in. But you could be convinced that a god exists but not worship or follow it making you a theist but not religious.
I love you guys but you were way off when you were talking to the the depressed guy The first thing you should have told him he's go to therapy that's the very first thing if he doesn't deal with with the underlying issues you can give him meds and the depression is going to come back You can share your story he can identify with it... But you still didn't get to the underlying issues.. he needs to unpeel the onion of emotion and get to the root causes what makes him depressed... depression is not the first symptom, depression is the caboose the feelings have already run him over and now he's left with depression So if sometime in the future somebody calls like this again direct them to therapy explain how their feelings and emotions run their life Once you understand whats going on inside you now you can have the tools to deal with that now you can take medication when you're overwhelmed and have the ability to sort through your feelings and emotions... Sorry boys but I had to disagree with you
It's not a surprise that all my favorite duos but one include Forrest. Forrest and Shannon, Forrest and Erika, Forrest and Seth. I would love to see Forrest and Dave Farina. Katie Montgomery and Dr. Ben is the one duo without a Forrest in it that is a favorite of mine. To be honest I love all the hosts Matt and Jimmy are amazing and the list goes on and on.
Just for fun, whenever I stay in a hotel room, I find the Gideon Bible, I go to Genesis 1, and I cross out “In the beginning” and write “Once upon a time.” 😆
I was wondering who did that! What year did you stay at the Mandalay Bay in Vegas? Either I ended up in one of your rooms or you learned that party trick from someone else.
I stopped believing not just that there is a second edition but because if god's word had to be authorized by a Scottish king then it can't be the truth .
100% agree, I was lucky enough to have an aunt who was a science teacher (back in the 80's) she was awesome, wish I could have been one of her students.
I feel like the RU-vid atheists are just a grab bag of who I'd love to see. Forrest, Seth, Paulogia, Matt Dillahunty, etc. Just pick two, and you'll have a great show.
@@koki84ji7 do they decide who's the host and that person talks more (thinking Dillahunty)? Last time I saw the two together, Forrest said he's the host and he's here with Seth Andrews
You guys doing two shows together back to back is amazing. Excellent job just being reasonable and articulate and giving no ground. I love every moment of BOTH of your shows. Thanks for being you
Forest made me tear up with his response to the caller with depression 🥺 So well worded , so real ! Also loved seeing Seth on the show . Listening to you guys feels like I’m with good old friends ❤
Jebus, Forrest, for a moment I thought I was the butt of that fable! But was glad I awoke in my recliner in time to listen to your responses to Amanda. That was sweet and depressing and inspirational at the same time. Seth, somehow, manages to escape looking completely befuddled trying to anticipate the wave of your rant, then find a calmer place to take it forward. (And give us a teeny respite to the Valkai volleys.) Excellent! Guzzling vegan cheese to the honor of all.
Yay, Seth! How did I miss this one??😮 I think that Seth's right about the community thing, but I also think that we as atheists freak ourselves out a little when it comes to the question of 'how to go about building community'. Because, sure. It might well be like herding cats. Because there are soft atheists and hard atheists... but more importantly: atheist skeptics and atheist non-skeptics, and atheist humanists and atheist non-humanists. I'd say, let's start with the folk that we can be mostly sure would even care about community in the first place: the atheists who are also humanists. Could start making casual groups, either online or irl, that meet up and plan ways to help people. Community gardens, volunteering, feeding the homeless, things like that. And follow up with atheist skeptics who make groups that help _each other._ There's no denying that a life spent in christianity often leads to people falling behind in both experiences, and skills. So there could be online or irl meet ups where people say, 'Hey! Maybe the value of math or critical thinking skills or philosophy were devalued in your home. Let us teach you algebra. Or trigonometry. Or calculus. Let's study some philosophy. Let's look into how to _research_ something; how to use a library, how to apply a lens that is multi-field in nature. Let's explore just how and _why_ the scientific method works...even look at the history of where and when those methods have been complicated by fallible human biases, and think about how to avoid those pitfalls in future. Atheists are a diverse bunch...so why try to "eat the whole elephant", by trying to serve all atheists all at once, when the needs of those who have deconstructed are incredibly varied -- whether someone winds up in deep need, or, they just need to build new social circles with those who are of like mind who can be a more compatible support system for them than they've had. Make an array of smaller communities instead.
Science: gather evidence, then come to a conclusion. Start with “I don’t know,” then “Let’s find out.” Anti-science (religion): Start with the conclusion, then try to find evidence to support it. Start with “I know,” then “Let’s justify it.”
Have seen this particular show about 2 o 3 times already man because it's just such a thrill listening at people like Forrest and Set, such great humans and great minds who actually want the best for humanity unlike religions which are just antihuman.
