The THUNDERBOLTS Are Coming! | Marvel Film Theory 

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I don't think Kate Bishop is gonna be part of the "evil avenger". Another team up that they're setting up is the Young Avengers and she fits them a lot better, at least initially. I think they'll have the Young Avengers set up by the end of Antman and the Wasp: Quantumania. The team being: -Wanda's Kids (likely coming back during Multiverse of Madness) -Kate Bishop -Cassie Lang -Iron lad (either kid from Ironman 3 or future teen Kang) -maybe Kid Loki too Edit: Eli Bradley and Ms. Marvel are possible additions too

I like the theory and had a similar one. To start, Val isn't the leader, she's the recruiter/possible go-between, she's *working* for some else. In my theory (and frankly wishlist, please! please! please! Marvel do this) it's Norman Osborne but not Green Goblin Norman, he be the leader of the Dark Avengers: "Iron Patriot." I also think that Thaddeus Ross's Red Hulk will be on the team rather then Abomination but that's a take-it-or-leave for me. I also suspect that Kate is earmarked for a Young Avengers line-up and Zemo will be in the Hawkeye position as the skilled but otherwise "normal" member. So my lineup is: Norman Osborne (Iron Patriot,) Yelena Belova (Black Widow,) John Walker (US Agent,) Helmut Zemo (Baron Zemo,) Thaddeus Ross (Red Hulk,) and White Vision (Himself.)

I agree that Val is setting up the Dark Avengers/Thunderbolts, but I don't think you got all the members correct. I think Kate Bishop will be in the Young Avengers and Vision will be in the New Avengers. So as the dark version of Iron Man, I think a better fit would be Zemo and the dark version of Hawkeye will be Echo or someone else introduced in the Hawkeye series like Bullseye.

Do y'all have one of those "conspiracy corkboards" in the office? I'm assuming you do, you can plot out all the connections between everything that gets put out.

SCB: Interesting discussion about anit-avengers... Me: WAIT THERE WAS A NEW ENTRO-SONG-VERSION??

“What are we, some kind of, Anti-Avengers?” -Val, probably

Think you're right on a lot of stuff, but disagree on a few things. I think Kate will be on a Young Avengers team with all of the other young characters they've started to set up. I also think that Zemo is going to be on the Thunderbolts team and be the "Hawkeye" foil as he is typically the leader of the Thunderbolts in the comics. Also I'm not sure about the Sylvie appearance and not 100% on White Vision, although I think he's more likely than Sylvie.

J: "Kate Bishop is gonna be the Hawkeye equivalent for Val's team." Me: *cries in Young Avengers*

White vision attacked Wanda only before he got his memories back. You can't judge him by those actions because they weren't his choices.

I really like that theory! However I don't think that Sylvie would be in that Anti-Avengers-Group. I find it hard to see her just join a random superhero squad on some random planet. Also she is way to smart and way to good in this illusion and deception game to fall for Vals tricks

Please tell me you will keep doing marvel theories: I NEED THEM!!!!!!!

Ben for Kvothe!🧙🏻‍♂️🗡

I disagree with the reasoning of Val gathering people. It has nothing to do with any void left by the original team members retiring. The Avengers still exist. Falcon (as the new Captain America), Bucky, Spider-Man, Dr Strange, Scarlet Witch, Ant Man, War Machine, and more are all still around and still Avengers. That doesn't mean Val doesn't want a Dark Avenger team (personally, I've been hoping a Dark Avengers movie would come along eventually), but, especially if she is already doing this in the Black Widow movie (I haven't seen it yet), she is doing this alongside the existence of Avengers, not due to a lack of them.

I just had a thought. What if the reason Val wants Barton dead is because she’s been eyeing Bishop for a while? After all, it’s clear she’s not your average archer. I mean she does say in the trailer that some people have actually called her “the worlds greatest archer”. What if she isn’t just boasting? What if the people she’s referring to is Val, herself, who in attempts to recruit her sang her praises, similar to what we saw her do when speaking to Walker in FaWS? She also didn’t recruit Walker the first time they met, so maybe she met with Bishop before what takes place in the Hawkeye series, but what if the one thing she didn’t account for was Bishop meeting Barton, and that’s what causes her to send Yelena to kill Barton, because she can’t have her becoming his protégé.

I thought Mysterio would replace Iron Man but I totally forgot the events of Spider-Man: Far From Home

Not gonna lie, my interest for the mcu has completely taken a backseat in my brain-space… Until watching this! 🤩 alright, maybe it’s time for a refresher marathon 😏

Last time i was this early the "door" was a gag back in the blue room XD

Dude,the dragon balls in your office are awesome. I think your theory is solid.

Kate bishop is gonna be on the young avengers that they are introducing not any anti avengers team we practically got all the young avengers already besides hulking who I'm sure is coming

J: there something behind you Me: yeah something is behind me, *A WALL*

7:59 Val becomes Madame Hydra. Shows picture of madame viper, a completely different character

They're probably going to get Robert Lopez and Kristen Anderson-Lopez (Agatha All Along, Avenue Q, Book of Mormon, Frozen) to write a song for the Steve Rogers musical.

Thor HAS said "Asguardians of the Galaxy" in Endgame tho.

Hulk's Banner again because She-Hulk get's her powers from a transfusion of his blood. It's basically the same plot point from Incredible Hulk where he's maybe cured of being just that version of the Hulk. Only obviously "Professor" Hulk was created from his missions and connection to black widow, years as a gladiator, losing to Thanos and finally reaching out to Banner. So now Bruce just doesn't have the time to "raise" a new Hulk.

4:28 personally i want to see all the stuff he was doing behind the scenes while he was living on OUR earth and we also have how toruchered he is knowing about all the bad stuff that's happening but cant change it or history would be messed up.

"By the way, if they don't use the phrase, 'Asgardians of the Galaxy' at some point, that is just, like, the biggest missed opportunity ever." They already used it in the Endgame scene where Thor is getting ready to take off with the Guardians of the Galaxy. Thor says, "The Asgardians of the Galaxy; back together again. Where to first?"

What if they are setting up many different teams, like The Dark Avengers (Lead by Val as the Nick Fury and Norman Osborne as the Iron Patriot), the Thunderbolts (Lead by Thaddeus Ross as Red Hulk), the Young Avengers and the New Avengers.

Man, I was so disappointed with Kingpin's portrayal in Hawkeye. He was so menacing in Daredevil, but had all of it stripped away in this new show. And once I realized that they weren't going to allow Kate any real adversity or challenge, and basically no stakes in any fight scenes at all (people were impaled by arrows, then walked away with literally nothing more than a bruise), I pretty much dropped any expectations I'd had from the strong start to the show. So disappointing.

Replace Hawkeye Kate with Echo Maya and I'm on board with this. Thunderbolts/Dark Avengers will be one set up team and Young Avengers will be the other (Kate, Wanda Twins, Isaiah Bradley's Grandson [patriot], Cassie Lang [Stature, recently recast for Antman 3], and possibly Ms Marvel, possibly Hulkling [Introduced in The Marvel, Secret Wars, or something])

Tony's snap killed thanos and his army not reversing the previous snap. That was done by hulk

Thor actually said "the Asgardians of the Galaxy" in Endgame, and Star Lord corrected him 😅

the two worst kept secrets in the MCU right now, Dark Avengers and Young Avengers. My personal lineup is a bit different for the Dark Avengers, 1.) I don't think Kate will be a member of the team. Brian D'arcy James (I think that's his name) has been cast in an as-of-yet unknown role in the Hawkeye show, my guess, based on his age and such, is that he will be playing Barney Barton, Hawkeye's brother, and will be his equivalent in the Dark Avengers, and I feel like Kate will be part of the Young Avengers. 2.) I'm kinda hoping we finally get General Ross as Red Hulk and have him be the Hulk equivalent, but I'm also cool with Abomination being part of the team as well. 3.) I don't think Sylvie would join the team, she just doesn't seem like the type of character to do that. I don't think we'd get a Thor equivalent in the Dark Avengers, that being said, if we do, for some reason I feel like Valkyrie could potentially be the Thor equivalent, if only for the good of New Asgard. 4.) It seems like the shows (aside from What If) are more about introducing the Young Avengers rather than the Dark Avengers, though some of the Dark Avengers do show up in the shows, as we've had Wiccan and Speed in Wandavision, Eli Bradley in F&WS, Kid Loki in Loki, and have many others coming in future shows such as Kate, Ms. Marvel, and Ironheart, while the movies, at least thus far, seem to be introducing potential Dark Avengers members (Yelena, Xialing, potentially Druig or a Deviant from Eternals, Green Goblin from No Way Home, Wanda potentially taking a dark turn in Multiverse of Madness, Valkyrie or a lesser Thor villain in Love and Thunder (it could be Gorr, but I don't think it will be), Namor (if he is the villain of Wakanda Forever) etc.)

I think you could also do Justin Hammer as an evil tony

i also think the tony counter part will be justin hammer after he is reintroduced in armor wars as a villian for rhodey

Coming from the future I can tell you that they gave us the full musical number as the postcredit Scene in the Hawkeye finale, but not many people liked it

Wait a minute hold on. Baron Zemo, (a version of) The Enchantress, The Abomination, and Madame Hydra. Where are my Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes at, because I think The Masters of Evil are coming.

They could replace Tony with two figures... white vision for brain and brawn, but you also need the money... wait, who's there? JUSTIN HAMMER!

Just a correction here, tony doesn’t snap to reverse thanos’ initial snap. He snaps to kill thanos’ army. Second correction, they DID use the term “Asgardians of the galaxy” in endgame.

Fem-Thor being a Dark Avenger is a funny idea

the MCU is kind of slowly re-canonizing all of the non-canon bits of the MCU. Like, the Hulk is still technically canon, but it's been pretty much entirely forgotten, Daredevil and Agents of Shield were both made non-canon, but they're bringing in characters from them, I'm sure there's be more, and I can't wait.

Of all villain 's you pick White Vision .. it could be Gaurdain , Red Dynamo, Beatle... or Iron Monger.. Dr. Doom even!!

Heyyyyy!!!! I hope your having an amazing day! Never forget that you are incredible and loved! You have so much potential and I believe in you

I think Kate is actually a set up for the young avengers. We already have Wanda’s twins, Scott’s daughter, elijah bradley, kid Loki and now Kate.

Im not sure if vision will be in the dark avengers, also questioning Kate, they might be on the true avengers but they could go either way. One person I do think will work with the dark avengers though might be Sharon. She might be the official Fury or she could be the right hand of Val. She definitely has a good public face now and is closely associated with Cap and was formerly shield so she has potential.

That intro music was fire

Real quick - tony did not sacrifice himself to reverse Thanos’s snap. Hulk did that and brought everyone back. Tony did it to get rid of Thanos and prevent him from snapping again which he said would eliminate all life and start the universe over again.

Nah, Hawkeye's replacement for the Dark Avengers will be Trickshot possibly. I think the villain of Hawkeye will be Ring Master. The leader of the circus of crime with a member named Trickshot, basically an evil Hawkeye. I'm pretty sure the circus of crime has a part in Hawkeye's origin. But don't quote me on that.

Love the year one reference. If you know, you know. If not, go binge some young SCB. It's nice to know that, for once, I was on the cutting edge of a theory and thinking many of the same things as you.

i think there are 2 people who are connnected to the 6 avengers and 1 of each will become the young avengers and the other will be the evil avengers and they will duke it out in the final. for example, rhodey vs white vision, she hulk vs abomination, falcon vs walker, kid loki vs sylvie, echo vs yelena, and kate bishop vs hawkeye's daughter

Asguardians of the Galaxy is a great name except there's only one Asgardian in the group. So, it kind of doesn't work in the end.

I’m hoping that instead of abomination we get red hulk and the team can be the Thunderbolts Also with the white vision thing, The vision Wanda made gave him back his memories so I’m pretty sure he’s just the original vision now, but white

I don't see Sylvie being at all concerned with the trivialities of this one version of Earth she has no connection to or history with. I think she's going to be a Loki-only character for some time, unless they merge her into a movie.

They did use the phrase "Asgardians of the galaxy"

The money shot, but they are all held at gunpoint

J... um hulk was the one to reverse Thanos' snap. Tony died taking it one "snap" further. Also the Kanto half of your current nuzlocke should have been a fresh new team. But not a huge deal, I just think it was a missed opportunity lol.

This is a great theroy but i think white vision will be dormant for a while and might be a part of these anti avengers later i think Harley keen (recently re-introduced) might become that ‘new iron man’ . I think your right with Val but she may be leading them but they will eventually i think they will become the young avengers with billy and tommy having Spider-Man lead them.. so on so on…

i just want to know what they’re gonna do with captain falcon, like is he gonna be the mentor for the young avengers along with wanda or something…

I definitely think this is the direction the mcu is going but I prey they build up Norman Osborn through out this new teams run for after Val is defeated

So, marvel is assembling their own version of "suicide squad" / "injustice league" ?? lets see if Val can top Amanda ;)

I didn't think Natasha's self-sacrifice was epic purely because of how dragged on that scene was. It was emotional but then point where I was glad someone ended up sacrificing themselves, because then it was over

Couple problems with this theory. Firstly, Yolena is being manipulated by Val, and this is more likely a hint to a plot thread in the show Hawkeye where Yolena will find this out and be forced to turn on Val. Secondly, Even if that werent the case, I doubt Clint would tell Kate Bishop that its a good idea to Join Val(especially if Val is sending Yolena to kill Clint) So It would take an incredibly drawn out disagreement between Kate and Clint for her to join Val as the new Hawkeye. Which I personally just dont see happening. Thirdly, White Vision is no longer white vision. Real vision(the one created by Wanda in WandaVision does the little mind meld within White Vision, and we literally see him change colors and the code turn yellow and stuff. He's no longer the cold, white husk he was before, and he is instead just vision. I find it hard that Vision would allow himself to just work for Val. Kinda dumb. However, that's not to say that Val's eventual endgame is not the Dark Avengers/Thunderbolts. I don't think Abomination will join Val, although if he does it doesn't make a world of difference from the better alternative, that being Thaddeus Ross, AKA RED HULK! He's a government man, who would be ashamed of his condition after becoming red hulk, and would want to seek validation trying to serve his country, and could easily be seducted by Val's influence and promise to become an Avenger. And while Iron Man was essentially a great leader, it was primarily his mind that mattered in his piece of the original six. So, my guess is that somehow Zemo will be broken out by Agent 13 AKA Sharon Carter, who is now known to be the Power Broker, will likely join the Dark Avengers as a replacement to Black Widow rather than Yolena. This runs concurrently with John Walker who will act as the Super soldier Captain America, and the two(Captain America(the Brawn) and Zemo(the Brain)) Will absolutely hate one another, much like the disdain that sat between Captain America and Iron Man.

What about Sharon?? AND Zemo???

I definitely think there going to go with alligator Loki.

U.S. Agent Baron Zemo Yelena White Vision Ghost Abomination Taskmaster Agatha [Spoiler for Shang Chi] *I am a little annoyed they killed off Death Dealer because he would be amazing in this lineup*

It was Val all along

Wait before I watch will there be spoilers for Shang-Chi? Cinemas are still in lockdown where I live

I am interested to see what Val’s plan is.

Zemo as The shuri of The thunderbolts?

I think you might have gotten the whole team right except for kate bishop.. Now u slide in taskmaster for that spot and you might be on to something

bullseye would be a great foil for Hawkeye.

Surprised that you didn't say we were getting Mephisto.

I think this is 100% happening, but I don't think Loki or Sylvie will be members because they deal with problems much more important and much more complicated than the rest of the MCU.

You should do an updated version after Hawkeye is over

The Earth's mightiest ship of Theseus

they indeed are

Val is working for General "Thunderbolt" Ross and The Thunderbolts is the team she's helping to build The Thunderbolts were first introduced in the pages of The Incredible Hulk, The Thunderbolts were actually The Masters of Evil in disguise with a master plan to make the world rely on them as saviors before flipping the script to reveal themselves as the Masters of Evil. By that point the MoE would be the only "heroes" the world would ever need they could demand ownership of the planet and governments would give it to them to thwart let's say an alien invasion or at least that was the goal of Baron Zemo AKA Citizen V. Well guess what some members of the MoE enjoyed doing good, betrayed Baron Zemo, and turned The Thunderbolts into a force for good in the world. The Thunderbolts have had several incarnations with the current group being created by "The Kingpin" Wilson Fisk this version falls more in line with DC's Task Force X better known as "The Suicide Squad" where as the previous group was a U.S. Government sanctioned Spec Ops. team created to go on missions to dirty for the "clean hands" of The Avengers, this version used villains that genuinely wanted to reform or villains that saw the chance to kill people and didn't care if it was for a good cause.

Absolutely

I doubt Sylvie will ever be a part of that

Oh boy J wrong in all lot of parts first hulk snap undone thanos snap Tony snap killed thanos and his army. Also there called the dark avengers not thunderbolts the thunderbolts are lead by the red hulk who is the general you see in civil war and they are equivalent to the suicide squad

How are they gonna get Sylvie back from the end of time?

you said Tony snapped to undo the original snap, but he actually snapped to kill thano.

I think Yelena will join the "Dark Avengers" and Kate Bishop will have to create the Young Avengers. At some point Yelena will switch sides. I think Kingpin is creating the team.

We are getting the thunderbolts. But if it's a bunch of anti heros, then I'm almost positive we are getting the most well known anti hero of them all on the team. Deadpool. Let's face it, deadpool is coming. And he's unkillable. I have a feeling he's gonna be popping up real soon in an upcoming movie.

If this is true it might mean that sharon is gonna be the dark avengers version of maria hill or agent coulson

5:03 Thor already said it at the end of Endgame.

Woah woah woah!!!!! Tony didn’t reverse Thanos’ original snap. Bruce did. Come on put some respect on his name.

white vision makes sense but I think that would be a let down I would want a iron man suit such as maybe justin hammer????

Iron man's snap killed Thanos and his army, it was Bruce Banner's snap that brought everybody back except Black Widow.

Ummm what about Ironheart?? She will be introduce in black panther 2 and would make more sense as a replacement for Tony

So, basically the anti-avengers will evolve into the 7 from "The Boys"

That team is the Thunderbolts! Not the dark Avengers! Anyway yes we are a go on the first of team up.on the evil side.

Just a tiny correction: tony didn't "reverse the snap", that was what hulk did. What HE did was selectively wipe out Thanos army

Is Vincent D’Onofrio’s return confirmed?

Very interesting, wonder how this plays out.

4:59 err...they already did :P

It's hilarious to me that john walker get's an explicit mention that calling him "less noble" is an understatement because he executed an enemy combatant that just participated in the murder of his best friend, but yelena is directly responsible for the deaths of hundreds of inmates and prison staff and jokes about it, but her being "less noble" than natasha is phrased as a question.

Kate will more likely be part of the Young Avengers, something they are clearly also setting up, not the anti-Avengers.

I heard Madame Hydra was never actually a villain and only used the name to gain trust from Hydra in order to take them down. Although I too am not very knowledgeable on comics so can someone tell me if I'm wrong.

but they already DID use the phrase "assgardians of the galaxy"... you know that right ? you're usuly so on point on details, kind of disapointed, was not too hard to catch in Endgame