The Timeline of Horizon: Forbidden West and the Hidden Clue to Horizon 3 

Gotta love spotting errors _after_ things go live... Annotation-corrections FTW?

Lol noticed that

They can’t call it “Horizon III: Nemesis”, because that’s too much like “Resident Evil 3: Nemesis”. 😈

@@crazyman8472 "Horizon III: New Dawn" would be apt and completing full circle.

@@krishnav5122 I like it! 😎

somehow I feel that the ending of the third game will be a sacrifice by Aloy to somehow save Betas life but I could be completely wrong about that

@@lannstarr35 Yeah I feel a major death coming in the 3rd game. The first 2 had big ones. It wouldnt make sense to have a lesser death in the 3rd. Aloy is the only great death that makes sense. Maybe Sylens if he becomes less robotic in emotion?

I felt like his death wasn't necessary, he should have been moved on to the third installment as he had grown so much and I was rooting for him only for his story to end in FW. I've come across atleast one article that expressed the same sentiment.

@@yellowplumfaerie I agree. I feel like it was forced for emotional sake

@@JoshuaDeamhan right! He was open and embracing all that was happening and even if he would've been just injured and benched a bit at the base and still provide support that would've been better. Because none of the other Nora truly was as open as he was. Heck his mama was super uncomfortable outside of Nora lands in DZ. Since she don't have no one to avenge for Carl I doubt we will see her until the end of the third installment. Ugh RIP Varl.

Yeah lol.

It got my upthumb.

What Twist?

@@DoktorSkill At the end of the video he admits that he's never played either of the Horizon games, thereby reinforcing a common critique of Zero Dawn: the best part of the game was the lore.

I will work on a graph of how/when he decided to tell us

Pretty sure sylens says that nemesis “destroyed an advanced zenith colony in the matter of hours”

@@filipbitala2624 but Sylens wasn’t there. This piece of evidence is directly from an eyewitness, a primary source, making it way more reliable then the anecdotal info Sykens received from Hades

That is a common quote that literally means an action or event that took place over 72 hrs. It is the shortest time necessary to destroy something that is extremely powerful, by something you want to build up as a bigger danger than what is currently being faced in a story or lore format, and can be defeated by the protagonist, but not necessarily by the protagonist surviving it. In this case, making Nemesis powerful enough to take out the Zeniths, caused everything that has taken place in previous story, but still can be defeated by Aloy when it shows up, but only after a very tough battle, and it is no guarantee that Aloy will survive the fight.@@filipbitala2624

@@filipbitala2624He did say that, in the end cutscene, close to the ship.

16th, 13th. where is the "n" coming from?

But they got it wrong tho

@@C0wb0yBebop something right...not everything

If you're playing the games, why would you spoil Forbidden West for yourself by watching this? XD

@@Ariastyr I get it. I like to spoil things for myself when I'm guessing stuff, usually for confirmation. Other times it's just to know what's coming and then see how it will develop, as no spoiler is 100% thorough and complete. And less often, when I think I won't be able to play/watch/read soon enough, I'd rather have a spoiler than nothing at all.

It's such a waste to spoil horizon before playing it. Because then the story wont be as interesting

@@hampter8546 it is, but not everyone who wants to play it has the means to do so. I live in a place where people haven't got their own consoles and play in rental places, when they can afford to pay per hours of play. In such cases I can understand auto spoilers.

Lmao messed up dude now HFW will just by a fighting simulator for you

This is what you get when you plan out a storyline. It is why stores such as Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, and Song of Fire and Ice do so well. Because the writers don't just write a story, they build an entire world first and then create the story from their own mythology. The foundation is set before the walls even start to be put in place. And yes, that is why GRRM is struggling with Fire and Ice. He kept introducing characters and sub stories and came to realize too late that trying to tie them all together and finish the story in a cohesive fashion turned into quite the mess. If he could go back in time, he would probably make the books twice as thick or cut out half the characters.

Bruh i just realized when i read this ... Nemesis wants to kill Zenith's right? So it follows them... Now that the Zenith's on earth is dead... It doesn't have a problem with earth... BUT the far zenith ship is in orbit... That's why it's still headed to earth. It's just passing by to grab some zenith ass then probably head out lol.

@@reaperwtf3432 it does have a problem with earth… NEMESIS was the reason why hades tryed to destroy the world, and guess what, there were NO far zenith on earth at that time, the game said itself that nemesis sees earth as a danger as the far zenith needed it as a sop off point to regroup and or collect new supplies

@@zachall101 Nemesis sent the signal to hades to kill the Zenith before they arrived to earth. Nemesis sees earth as a danger place bcause it is the only planet that the Zenith could live so that is why nemesis wants to destroy the earth. But since The Zenith has been killed. We're wonder what his intentions next..

@@smokeyn9595 either nems decides to spare them, either because a bunch of primitives are not worth the effort or to guide their development, or he decides they are tainted by zenith contact and tries to kill them all. It all comes down to what really is the objective nems follows is and whether nems believes destruction is the only way to accomplish it. Since nems won't have the same beaten dog weakness zenith had we can assume fighting is not really the best option. Just a stop gap to make nems decide it can spare the time to talk if it comes in hot. So either negotiation or programming trickery must end up being the real end game of any interaction with nems. Either would be difficult but not impossible. So I wager part of their efforts to prepare will be regaining a certain amount of technological ability so they can either speak with or override any attempt by nems.

Exactly what I was thinking. Like why Nemesis wants to attack Earth if all zeniths are dead?

I think you'll be happy to hear that a psvr horizon game is in the works and looks like it's going to release before the next mainline game

Zero Dawn was better, just my opinion.

@@albertawheat6832 I'd say the story of Zero Dawn was better overall but the world, gameplay, graphics and character work were better in Forbidden West.

Oh there will be a DLC. If the developers follow the format of zero dawn they'll release a DLC about the Quen just like they did for the Banuk in the first game.

@@bobjenko no gameplay was much better in the first game but everything else you mentioned was an improvement from the first game.

You know what we don't see in the games? Machine bugs. They could be what Nemesis creates or brings with him, similar to the Specters they'd be mostly higher tech, nano/synthetic machine bugs. Nothing scarier then to suddenly encounter a nano-morphing tarantula in a dark cave. Or wouldn't it be neat that since Hephaestus had access to the FZ database which had a complete Apollo and Heph. downloaded ideas for new combat machines from books say like a dragon? Or a troll?

​@@3nigmatikx1 i thought the same thing! Before i played through Singularity i wondered if maybe we'd ever get like a proper dragon-like machine, maybe as the equivalent of a Slaughterspine for Forbidden West and Thunderjaw for Zero Dawn, but for the third game. I thought that would only be possible if Heph somehow got access to Apollo, and I guess in a way he could have done during Singularity. I thought it would be cool if Heph appeared kind of bluish purple next time we see him but I doubt that would happen.

I’m willing to bet once Sylens gets his hands on APOLLO, he’ll start working a way to capture and restore HEPHAESTUS, or make a another version (RIP Lance Reddick)

@@bn-tc2tk As much as I mourn the loss, both of the irreplaceable talent of Lance Reddick and the excellent character of Sylens, I find I also kind of hope he gets a suitably interesting offscreen death. It's always a little ghoulish when a lookalike (soundalike?) actor is brought in to replace someone who's dead, and I'd rather have a slightly awkward bit of writing than listen to someone do their best Sylens impression just to keep the character around.

@@3nigmatikx1tbf heph probably already has knowledge of dragons and such, considering all of the subfunctions know everything that gaia did when she blew up, and that gaia still knew a lot about history and such from lis(without apollo)

Beta also sounds younger. At first, i thought Guerilla made it so we could differ Aloy and Beta but this theory made me think this decision was made on purpose.

Nemesis taking 17.22 years to start travel doesn't make sense to me. Why didn't it pursue zeniths before that? - it's not like earth is their only hope of survival. It doesnt take 17.22 years for an advanced AI to build a ship - especiallt since it doesnt need water or food or oxygen. They may find another planet like earth or Sirius planet. Also, if Nemesis started journey as soon as it received failure signal from Hades, then writers are clearly indicating that it "waited" Why? It would be far too coincidental that ship completion by Nemesis would take similar amount of time as return signal. Either it's a oversight by writers or it will be explained in future. Perhaps the return signal "encouraged" Nemesis to pursue zeniths actively, but it doesn't make sense for Nemesis to just fire a signal and forget zeniths until a return signal is received.

@@krishnav5122 Nemesis didn't pursue because the Hades signal isn't just for waking up Hades, but also preparing him for incoming Zeniths. Thats the reason why Hades knew how to break Zenith shields. Nemesis thought it was enough.

I would bet Nemesis started development of a space craft to carry whatever it's equivalent of servers are as soon as the Far Zenith colonists escaped, a plan B in case the plan A of denying the Far Zenith colonists resupply was unsuccessful. In that case a vessel-equivalent would be ready as soon as the hades handshake failed. It also makes sense it could reach a higher speed before having to decelerate, so squishy meat parts that would get damaged by very high accelerations, the only physical limitations are the material limitations of whatever that nantite crystal metal stuff that makes up the specters is (or some other more exotic material)

The Zenith feld back to earth to escape Nemesis, so it's very likely it never anticipated this action, and was delayed in order to craft a "physical form" because if Nemesis had anticipated them leaving, why not leave sooner and destroy them in space? Also, based on the scope of the Zenith operation, I would put their arrival earlier in ZD (about the time Aloy and Sylens met in person. Which was roughly the same time Sylens headed West to wait for Hadies release) at about 6 months vs 4 the author suggests (which also puts beta at around 14

Which is probably why she was so infatuated with the “happy birthday Isaac” she saw when she first found her focus as a child.

Note that I'm simplifying and assuming they pretty much instantly hit their max cruising speed, so the average speed for the journey is also the speed they're traveling at the middle. Assuming a 1G acceleration, that's a reasonably fair assumption (only 4 months are spent accelerating and decelerating), but if they have a lower acceleration the math can start getting complicated. For example, if they have only 0.05G thrust, they have to burn their engines the whole trip, and are travelling at 0.6 C at the time Beta is born. After that the speed steadily drops throughout her childhood, requiring some very messy integrals to figure out her age.

Huh... Guess I should have looked that part up when I was trying to think it through. I just divided it up by .297 xD

Beta's age seems to be the only affected variable if relativity is considered, as it should only apply to the spacecraft

This assumes the speed of Zeniths' spacecraft being relatively constant which is not necessarily the case

@@Turalcar Can you provide a reason? They seem to be self-sufficient, and besides acceleration on departure and deceleration on arrival, there's no reason to change speeds while you're traveling through nothing. At the very least, we assume an *average* speed of 0.3c. Since time dilation is proportional to the square root of velocity squared, an average would yield the same result.

@@captaindapper5020 Why couldn't they go faster? I see 2 primary options: 1) Interstellar medium at 0.3c is not "nothing" so this is the fastest the Odyssey could travel without severe damage. The subjective time of travel would be 27.7 years. 2) They accelerated half of the way and decelerated for the second half being only limited by the engine's power output. And no, averaging speed won't work here. If we assume the acceleration to be constant in Odyssey's system the travel will take 27.3 years. Edit: I redid the math. The difference is even smaller

@@Turalcar Hmm. You're right that the subjective time isn't proportional to the true average; I should have seen that one :P Let's assume for simplicity's sake that the Zenith are sufficiently knowledgeable such that interstellar media isn't an issue. We know the journey took 29 years, and we know that it's 8.611 ly away. Therefore, we know the **average** "true" speed to get here was 0.297c ≈ 0.3c. And, if we assume that their acceleration isn't instantaneous, their top speed must be < 0.3c. Interestingly, if we assume they need to accelerate at 1G to live comfy (they probably have antigrav since they float everywhere, but work with me :P), and we assume a constant state of accel (flip around and decel at midpoint), the max speed is quite close to 0.5c. Additionally the subjective time is within a month or so of the naive, constant-speed 0.3c subjective time... I think these coincidences are accidental but it's neat anyway, and the 1G makes sense. It makes Beta ~3 mo younger though, subjectively. 14.25 ish instead of 14.5 ish Here's my Desmos, if you feel like deciphering my spaghetti. lol www.desmos.com/calculator/cqoglhpl6r

yess that's the same feeling I had, like there's something weird about it that doesn't add up after I completed ths game something seem off

The side quest "Valley of the Fallen" gives us a hint of when the Zeniths arrived, since the valley was closed for a few months.

@@danielemoreira1168 well the general issue with time in this game is that it's non-definitive. Apart from the baseline "6 months" at the beginning of the game, their is no accounting of time from that point. It's just a vague offerings of times with no absolutes. So in that mission you mentioned, for all we know it could have been a few months after Aloy was in the forbidden West for a full year. Not to mention the whole other mess of factors like the time Sylens spent interrogating Hades and how long after the last battle in the 1st game that he even collected Hades.

@@firstdondiego It’s true and It’s by design

Can we use the dead, rusted Stormbird in the Zenith island to get a rough guess of their arrival? Tilda mentioned they killed a lot of machines when they arrived and afaik that's the oldest looking dead machine in the island.

RSQ, we'd like you take on this lore as well, are there any new videos you're working on now??

Wait, he hast played both games?…

MP: "I just really like lore!" Me: You really need to get together with RSQ. 😂

Personally I hope this doesn’t happen. I’ve played both games and modern weaponry wouldn’t feel right with the mechanics the game uses. There are machine guns and the like, but those aren’t very common and count as heavy weapons (can’t keep them permanently and those run out of ammo)

@@highadmiraljt5853 My thought is once Nemesis arrives and begins flooding the Earth with its technological nightmares, stronger weaponry will be necessary. At the very least more seriously augmented versions of the weapons they've been using. Imagine Aloy having a bow with a magnetic accelerator on the shaft that effectively turns it into a railgun of sorts. As the higher-tech weapons would likely function on some kind of portable power source, ammo conservation could still be a key factor in situations where Aloy ventures far from the base and isn't able to recharge. That said, it just makes zero sense for her team to retain the use of relatively primitive weaponry going forward with the Zenith's cache of advance knowledge now at their fingertips.

@@KelsonArwhi Said primitive technology is used to destroy giant robots, and Sylens showed that modifying it is good enough to take down the shields of the zeniths (the shredders and the anti zenith shield are very similar). It also fits the games entire aesthetic better. Why would anyone use the other weapon types in the game then? People would complain about the lack of weapon variety.

i was thinking, if Nemesis hacked into a highly advanced entire colony in a clink, maybe not having technology is actually a blessing for earth. Bows and spears might be rudimentary but can't be hacked ajskdnaskjdnd

@@barbarar2216 I had the same thought but by that logic Aloy and company would then need to abandon their Focuses altogether, and boy howdy would THAT change the whole game mechanics.

I think it would definitely close out the story of Aloy, but I think there’s still more they could do with the world. I mean, in an infinite timeline, anything could happen

Nemesis could have a hand in corrupting some machines. I don't think it would be the end!

@@xiaofha Totally true.

It was very interesting for sure 😁

You played the game too, NBC!? (Or at least followed the plot,) that kinda surprises me, since you're mostly a Zelda content creator, but what did you think of the game?

Yes, I wouldn't be surprised if they built their whole base in 1-2 days.

Was going to comment the same thing - Beta’s age is the only thing affected by time dilation, and it makes less than a year’s difference to her age (putting the lower bound at about 14 years 4 months). I’d also mention that while there aren’t any firm dates given past Aloy’s birth in the games, we do know there was a solstice between them (mentioned by Marad), which meshes with the timeline in the video.

I like your icon

Thats weird because according to my Numbers if we accept it for the travel time between the hades signal and the beginning of betas Ectogenesis till they get to earth it makes beta a week under 19

The word you’re looking for is “relative” (or better yet “proper”) not “subjective”. Time dilation has nothing to do with “subjective time”. It’s all perfectly objective.

iirc time dilation isnt a big problem until you exceed like 0.6 C

whos peter

2. Sylens device was made to disable the Far Zenith shields and not to fight against Nemisis, 3. what immortality theory and whos peter?

This is my first time hearing the Sylens immortality theory. That sounds rad but isn't it pretty much confirmed already that he's just a very smart Banuk?

Given the time scales involved, and the author’s at least down to the year precision, a speed of .26c would it be enough to make a serious impact.

It's a generic open world rpg... same as any other thats came out in the past 10 years or more , really look at it and you'll see what I mean , all rpgs are re skins of the same exact game : story sends you to new area of map , you climb a tower then you clear a couple outposts then you do the mission then you collect then the story sends you to a new area of the map , you climb a tower you take out a few outposts..... aaaand you get my point , now take that formula and look at hzd, far cry , the elder scrolls , fallout , mass effect aaaaand you get my point 👉 All modern rpgs are the same as all others , just like shooters or zombie games Is the story unique? Yeah it is but is the game? No its not

13:59 😛

@@MangledPork My apologies, I overlooked that footnote.

at that speed and distance time dilation would be a very mitigating Factor however I would chalk it up to beta being in an unnatural gravity environment another possibility is that there was an alpha clone first and beta is a second clone made by far zenith and something happened to the alpha either rebellion or disaster

@@lannstarr35 alpha is the OG sobek. They call her alpha prime.

crazy ridiculous theory: in the years waiting for a return signal from earth, back on sirius, Nemesis was hard at work developing and imagining super advanced technology, and came up with a way to receive the return signal slightly earlier through an artificial wormhole, so the signal return on sirius was received in Jan 3028 instead of April 3029, so the 13 years that Gaia estimated it would've taken the Odyssey to reach earth is actually the amount of time it took Nemesis to get there, and it is already hiding on earth in secret, and continued to transmit the signal from sirius for another 1.25 years after it left to not tip anyone off, and the fact Gaia knew this information was received on sirius in 3028, but not why, was because it was hidden within data inside Hades and Nemesis forgot to cover up that detail, and all Gaia knew at the time was when the signal back on Sirius was received, because Gaia says "if they did not set out for earth until they learned of the extinction signals failure, the journey was even faster, a mere 13 years".

if that was the case shouldnt nemesis have arrived on earth by now?

@@ovencake523 that’s saying its the same speed as the zenith ship

So many useless data points wrecked the experience of this game for me....More is not always better.

@@albertawheat6832 somehow i agree😅even if data points related to Old Worlds, keeping it minimum to key/important ones will do

Aloys too impatient to walk. She would have mounted machine.

my thought is that beta is possibly a secondary clone and that there was a primary "alpha" clone made first that either rebelled or was destroyed by some other means

Yep, the follow-up video script is already in progress!

This is impossible. in holograms, audios and texts found in San Francisco from Forbidden West, you have an initial date and how much time has passed since it, that is, there's no way Aloy has more than 18 years in the game . Horizon Zero Dawn takes place in 3038 and Horizon Forbidden West in 3039, read my previous comments, look for the texts and audios I highlighted in both games and do the math .

@@daikyozeus Aloy was "Born" on April 21, 3021, GAIA ordered her creation on August 26, 3020 as a last resort, after which GAIA self-destructed due to signal of unknown origin. According to Guerrilla, HZD's story takes place in the year 3039, when she was accepted into the Nora tribe on her 18th birthday. The action of HFW takes place in the year 3040.

@@ladydalida6917 In Horizon Zero Dawn ,I did the calculations for the 355510 days(973 years and 121 days) passed since Elizabeth Solbeck's last scheduled visit to Faro's headquarters was scheduled for November 3, 2064, which is the date of the last hologram of her conversations with the Ted Faro that by the content of the hologram she did not attend, that is, the day that Aloy arrived at Faro's headquarters is March 4, 3038. In Forbidden West ,TEBAS has been active for 50844 weeks ( 355908 days / 974 years and 155 days) , I made calculations and this is some date in 3039 , by the audios/texts in THEBAS it is clear that its activation was before January 2066 . Another detail is that Sylens says in Gaia Prime in the HZD that the explosion of the place happened close to 19 years, if I am correct the ordeal of the Nora in the HZD occurred during the winter solstice of 3037 when Aloy was 16 years old and in the course of events. of HZD she turns 17. And I repeat I did all the calculations with existing data in both games. PS; Aloy 'Born' April 4, 3021

The data I listed is from a text data log from the Eluthia-9 facility in Nora's Mother Mountain. This data log contains all data, such as the offline date of GAIA-Prime, i.e. the date of its self-destruction and all relevant data about Aloy and its history. This data comes directly from the designers. So I don't need any cumbersome calculations about possible time-distance specifications if all relevant data are given by the designers. In addition, the hint also came from Guerilla itself, which plays HFW about 6 months after the events of Meridian. In addition, it must also be considered that the events within HZD are also designed for a period of about 6 months. Just think of the distances she has to travel. I don't want to know how many miles Aloy has covered in HZD alone.

@@ladydalida6917 I also thought I didn't need to do any math, but while playing HZD I found some inconsistencies between the old world dates and the internet claims about Aloy's age and what year the Horizon Zero Dawn game was set in. So I looked inside the game for something that would help with that and the only data I found was an audio that is not part of the datapoints that occurs when Aloy arrives in Maker's End saying that 355510 days have passed. Consequently I ended up making an estimate of how many days pass from the beginning to the end of the HZD which would be during a period around 4 to 7 months. Already in Horizon Forbidden West in Thebas there is a text present in the datapoints written that Thebas is active at 50844 weeks which coincidentally is something close to 6 months longer than the 355510 days mentioned in HZD. And another detail that makes HZD impossible to be in 3039 is that the audio with the dialogue between GAIA and Elizabeth Solbeck that Aloy hears when she finds Solbeck's remains at the end of Horizon Zero Dawn was recorded on February 3, 2066, and this audio is along with the text datapoints related to Elizabeth Solbeck (he is the only text with content blocked even after we finish the game), another detail is that the hologram where Ted Faro kills the alpha prime members of the Zero Dawn project takes place on February 2nd of 2066. Some dialogues with NPCs during HZD show the passage of time within the game, from the day Aloy did the Nora's ordeal until the day she arrives at Meridiana the first time, for example, it's been close to 30 days. After analyzing all the existing dates in HZD, I saw that there was no way for Aloy to be 18 years old during the game and that the most likely year would be 3038, and during the calculation of how many days it took for the entire story of HZD to happen I realized that the game starts in the year 3037 and ends in 3038, something that also occurs in Horizon Forbidden West, the game starts in 3038 and ends in 3039.

More precisely, the factor is ~1,059, making the journey ~27,38 years.