The Tough Girl Trope, Explained 

What about the Japanese/animated cinema some love for that ... Please ;) Princess Mononoke, Ghost in the shell, spirited away, Psycho pass, etc.

@Ryan Stewart Why? Read the title "The Tough Girl Trope, Explained" It doesnt say The Tough Girl Trope, Explained with only 50% whites ...:)

Can you make a video on General Sam. Just want to see if you will really do it.

@Ryan Stewart That is if @TheTake can get them right... They put Star Wars under Michonne and Kill Bill under Rey...

Just wanted to say there is an error at 0:09.

So true

Loved them all! Also, My Life as a Teenage Robot.

From those examples I would guess that you must be too young for the original iteration of this trope in cartoons as the Power Puff girls in 1998. Which was for a while was one of the most immediately recognisable exports of American culture, not just in terms of animation but PPG managed to be a meme in a pre-web 2.0 world. I'm sure there are other examples of well written female characters in animated kids shows before 1998 but in terms of where that idea that it's common to have strong, female and feminine heroes in kids animated shows goes Blossom, Bubbles, and Buttercup are as good a place to start as any.

@@matthewmcneany You're right, but you didn't have to be so condescending about it.

​@@TheChickenRiceBowl That was not my intention at all, it was just meant to be context for people who might otherwise be unaware that a thing exists or of how big a deal it was at the time.

I'm not gonna read any other comments on RU-vid today... I wanna hold on to this feeling just a little longer...

definition of *power move*

Nope cause she's a badass!!

Hahaha, you're the very definition of a powerful woman!🌟

Stubbed your toe and didn't make a sound? That's not even 1% of your full potential. 😲

Violet (played by Jennifer Tilly) from *_Bound_* embodies this statement. I think she's a more interesting character than Trinity.

Thank u for said this

@@ARosethatBloomsinEarlyMay omg I love Jennifer Tilly shes so freaking perfect in every role she plays in (I love her as an actress not in person by the way)

The reason directors believe that is society reinforces this stereotype where vulnerability is associated with femininity. If you ask me, being emotionally vulnerable also requires a certain type of strength "toughness"

Isnt vulnerability by definition a weakness? "We should attack the enemy at the rear where they are vulnerable "

Shinzenbi, oh the horror! Haha!

imagine telling others to write characters you want, oh the..... reality.

I KNOW RIGHT ! Like a woman has to be exceptionally sexy or exceptionally not traditionally feminine to be interesting. Urgh

So like Katara?

Try Terry Pratchett. Sybil Ramkin is the bomb.

Laura B I agree with you. So that’s why they need a lot more voices in the room to tell them otherwise. When tv shows and movies do the same things over and over it’s because they are the only ones in the room- no inclusion and no diversity

Exactly, there needs to be FAR more to her than just simply being tough, or else she risks just being a walking stereotype. Beatrix Kiddo from "Kill Bill" could be the definitive example, as she was propelled to start her killing spree after her life was ruined.

There does, but i think you also need enough other fleshed out women around her that she's not responsible for being The Woman, or even The Woman Who's Not Like Other Girls. One of the things i think films like fury road and fast color got right is that there are multiple significant femme characters, so each can be powerful and flawed in her own way and they can help define each other simply by existing in the same space. I think it's also worth noting that we're a lot more willing to accept an idealized paragon character if that character has gonads. James bond doesn't have a lot of backstory, and his flaws are basically that he's violent, sexually aggressive to the point of predation, and emotionally unavailable, which are selling points in some audiences. Yet he's still held audience attention for 25 films. Captain america's flaws mostly come down to being stubborn and absolutely convinced of his own rightness (which his films usually support), but he too is rarely if ever decried as too perfect.

@Just a thought That is largely because there is a double standard. It is apparently totally okay for a male lead to be a paragon of whatever virtue is desired in any given era, but as soon as you put a female power fantasy on screen you can bet that this stupid Mary Sue nonsense starts again. Contrary to popular believe it is not just about the character, it is about the whole package, meaning you can easily have a virtuous character as long as said character fits the story you want to tell. In pretty much every single movie which didn't work for the audience, the problem was the OVERALL writing, not specifically the writing of this one character. But certain people just love to blame it on the female lead for their outrage machine.

Im not going to act like male characters aren't automatically loved for just being strong lol

Rosalyn Robinson Good example

TRUE

Rosalyn Robinson She was written that way. Legally Blonde and Miss Congeniality were written in a time similar to ours when women were being contextually shamed back into “acting feminine.”

I agree, it just goes to show that you can be feminine and yet still be considered "tough" and "a fighter".

Trina Q love this

i laughed this is so funny

So true. I couldn't have said it better.

Not at all. Tough girl doesn't seek approval.

@@u770017 you have totally missed the point. a cool girl is an unrealistic female character created by a socially inept man, a cool girl could be anything - she doesn't have to seek approval. watch the takes video on it :)

@@satan9228 It's not created by socially inept men, it's created by writes men and women who just need a side character. There is also the male tropes too.

Yes please do that

if so, please include my favorite subversion of the trope (as with so many others), _Blazing Saddles_

Yes Kato was too good for green hornet

+

@@victoriaparsons3684 I agree

But she must be scantily clad or else they wont find her sexy at all. She must not have much protection and her boobs almost popping out.

I agree until that last part. They're desirable to women because women are the ones who defend the awful characters to the death

who is generally the demographic for action type movies that have the tough girl? Is it men or women? (yes, I'm generalizing) Wouldn't it make sense to create characters that are appealing to your target demographic? I think people forget the point of movies is to generate capital, not to be a biopic on modern society. that's why the leads in movies are usually attractive.

Part of the issue here is the fact that this is entertainment not real life representation. Men like to see sexually appealing women kicking butt, much like women enjoy seeing highly attractive men in action sequences as well.

yeah...

thank you. you said this perfectly

EXACTLY!!!!

well said, well fucking said.

Couldn't have said it any better myself,👏👏👏👏

YES.

Whatever. Shes already dead I guess

she's never been that interesting. In the comics or the movies. I'd rather see them get She-Hullk or the new Ms Marvel right.

Have you not seen civil war she literally killed it.

Black widow really deserves more depth than what they gave her initially, the fact that they made us love her so much in Endgame just to kill her off was so cruel. If they can make her show the same level of emotion in that movie like she did in that single scene I’ll be happy

empty shogun she definitely has but a lot of her character progression has been done behind the scenes. Like it was never front and center like say iron man or captain America, you see? Hell even the hulk got his character arc front and Centre but we’ve never gotten the same for black widow.

Valid Her “feminine” was every female stereotype in the book and her “personality” was being crazy about babies and men. She doesn’t have a personality.

Valid what lmfaoo? All I saw was people attacking captain marvel for being “boring” and “too masculine”.

@@EverintheRising Her being naive despite being a part of the "born sexy yesterday" trope in does more for the story than people give it credit to. The whole story is based around it. Personality? She's compassionate and understanding, curious and adventurous. I believe people start this claims more because they themselves see the displays of femininity from wonder woman as weak and see Captain Marvel as response to that. But I feel Carol Danvers lacks more personality than Diana since she's pretty much perfect and none of her flaws (the obvious ones and non-obvious ones) are not discussed. Also the directors and writers sucked.

You’re kidding... it’s Wonder Woman for Christ’s sake.

Nobody has ever accused Diana as weak. What some people DID say (and rightly so) is that Diana is the kind of "strong female character" which comes with a lot of appeasement for the male audience, while Captain Marvel doesn't bother with holding the male audience's hand, quite the opposite. That doesn't make Diana a worse character, but it explains (among other things) why the Anti-SJWs had a harder time to steer up hatred against Diana compared to Carol.

Its always about obviously beautiful girl who's a bit awkward and wear glasses.

"She's All That" was the first one that came to mind. Most of the "ugly ducklings" weren't even ugly, just a pretty girl with glasses and/or ugly clothes like Tiny Grimes said.

I think theres more to it than just the pretty girl who's "ugly" because they wear glasses. I wanna know what their take is for female leads who play that kind of girl that actually dont meet generic standards of attractiveness such as The Duff or Sierra Burgess. Imo both movies teach girls that are like them that they can appreciate every quality about themselves in which they excel EXCEPT for their looks/physical appearance

@@Tima-oz5te glasses can be cute especially on guys. honestly look at IT and Richie & Stand By Me w/ Teddy Duchamp. both young men are so handsome especially w/ glasses. plus neither were "nerds" both were funny, charismatic characters

I always hated that trope because it made me super disappointed when I never had the glow up that I was promised. It made me wonder if I was doing something wrong. I never even had glasses to take off, and straightening my hair just makes it look flat lol

The Transformers movie is probably one of the worst offenders of this. The framing of Megan Fox in the movie signified that her value is in her being sexy all the while she's talking about how men don't like how she knows more about cars than they do. The framing didn't match the dialogue at all, but that's Michael Bay for you.

@@RubyRobbins88 Ironically, in real life many have Michael Bay's glasses on when interacting with good looking people, especially women (regardless of attire).

@@RubyRobbins88 ah, I see someone watched Lindsay Ellis

@@tutumazibuko2510 Absolutely! She's got amazing insight!

I found it funny how in that part, they were showing Angelina Jolie in the shower as if to emphasize that, but it also had Daniel Craig topless and if I remember correctly the movie shows his backside too. So... that movie sexually opjectified both of them, which I am completely okay with! More equal oppurtinity objectification!

YES

🩵🌿

Precisely, the Tough Girls needs to feel as real and authentic a person as possible, otherwise she could come off as cliched, a walking stereotype, or a desperate attempt to pander to your female audience.

@@trinaq you're so right especially when that character is made for wish fulfillment then actually the plot of the story I believe its insulting to the women they're trying to represent.

@Tim Evans Dude What are you talkin about? People hate Sansa because of her own actions in the story she's not a likeable character she sold out her family got many people killed sold out her brother when he trusted her with the biggest secret of his life for power she is just given power not by her own actions but by luck of birth and absolutely no one has a problem with her being feminine her mother Kat was one of the strongest characters in the story and possibly the most feminine so miss me with that crap logic btw sansa watched thousands of loyal soldiers die in the battle of the bastards just so she could hold that over Jon's head later on to feel like she did something and as soon as he becomes King she immediately starts undermining his authority and questioning him out loud in front of everyone she's been around enough powerful people to know that is a conversation to be had in private and the reason why people like Arya isn't because she threw away traditional femininity it's because when her feet were to the fire she stood by and protected her family even before she was a powerful warrior when they were both little girls in kings landing (they both grew up in the same house but she is the only stark child to continuously choose outsiders over her family thats what got her direwolf lady killed)she stood by her brother when no one else would that's staying loyal Sansa didn't have that trait and she knew what her brother was doing is right but she just wanted power if a male character was this hated you would say most likely agree so it seems you don't respect women enough and think they're strong enough to be held accountable for their own actions. I believe even most women would agree that she isn't a good person (I also think a lot of this also stems from Sophie Turner's acting) check your bias. while I do think John wasn't the brightest character he was the only honorable man in a very dishonorable world so his decision Ned Stark's decision seemed very foreign to people who value honor and I do think the show went out of it's way to portray john as dumb and woefully incompetent.

Yep a bad female character (and the actress) get a lot of hate like you said, even harassed off social media, but when male characters aren't real or authentic, no one cares or calls them a walking stereotype or a Mary Sue. This is why we need more representation. Female characters should be allowed the same range that we give male ones.

@@1amissingno absolutely they need a variety of voices in the writers room they need difference of opinion because I think this usually happens when you have one person making all the decisions and we start seeing someone's idea what a woman should be or an idealized version of what they want women to be when most people just want a human character to relate to and they make these characters so unrelatable. But I also believe that there are a lot of male characters who are criticized for being overpowered or for bad acting but when those criticisms are levied they won't be called sexist misogynist so I think the conversation around bad male characters can be a bit more healthy and isn't as exasperated. when it comes to female characters.

I thought that was happening right before the wedding was about to take place? Do people have wedding rehearsals as a completely separate thing?

@@Xshathra006 I'm sure it is

And she loved Bill, she was soft she gave it all up for BB

I think they focus more on her drive for vengeance after experiencing a post-massacre miscarriage

Sure, but my point was that the video frames uma thurman as this tough girl who became tough because of the loss of her baby, but she was already tough before

@300bpm At no point was she tough and skilled for the right reasons. She only wanted revenge for what was directly done to her and perceivably, her child. She never vowed to be a good person or turn away from evil, She simply wanted revenge. She had no idea that BB was alive and harbored no desire to help or change the world that she herself helped to create. Theres no arc. There was no transformation. She was the same person she always was. The same character (plus a bit of scarring) from beginning to end. That is not what you call a character arc.

@@matttheamerican3766 I think you are mistaken. her exact transformation happens when she _doesn't_ kill Bill, because yes, she didn't kill him. It all came down to her changing her ways. She was saying how once she found out that she was pregnant she couldn't continue being an assassin anymore. But she thought she lost her child. And of course she wanted revenge. But once she found out her daughter was alive she was still very angry with Bill, because she felt betrayed, but she understood that she doesn't want her daughter to grow up in a world where killing is the norm, it all solidifies with the story that Bill told her of how she killed the fish that she stepped on. She wants her to grow up away from violence. so she doesn't proceed with her plan. Bill in fact doesn't die at the end

Thanks you finally

Thank you so much

Be careful making that much sense

its not just the Bride either. I've noticed this about the Take, they like to cherry pick, while ignoring anything about characterization of their examples that contradicts their claims.

But they didn't.......? They cited The Bride as a nuanced character and listed one of the reasons why they think so. They might've not gone in-depth for time.

It's not a bad idea. In some cases though you definitely need to have gender into consideration.

@dil oreo No it isn't. Maybe lay off the porn.

@@u770017 Don Draper is an aging insecure man with sex addiction, James Bond too, kind of every Clint Eastwood type of character really so yeah they got a point

@@justarandomperson.4205 Ok Ill agree, but that doesn't define the subject of the show.

300bpm oh no I love action movies lol

Manophere. com the what and the who?

lolmaster 💀

Good I’m not the only one. I thought I was tripping 💀

Apparently not! Notice how she's always on the run from her creditors?

Probably just set it on fire!

@@Lowlight91 Great with guns, not so much with money-management.

Can u give some examples? I haven't really seen enough movies to notice them

Yeah, us men love when women act like violent uneducated men..

shee thruu straight up as a chick it’s hard not to notice, cause that’s the only person you’re given in the movie who looks like you and you can relate to more personally. Lara Croft in the Angelina Jolie movies. In some of the games she’s way cooler but in those movies you could tell very much that she was there to be attractive eye candy. Electra in Daredevil. She’s got the personality of wet cardboard, and is knife wielding eye candy. A lot of female anime characters as well, which isn’t surprising considering a lot of anime is made by men. I mean I’m trying to think of examples but the characters are just so forgettable it’s hard.

@@fridam2022 All the Marvel movies are examples. The female characters are sickeningly one-dimensional. Black Widow/Natasha has no essence. They exist to look good on screen or have one or two sexy sequences. The only ounce of personality we got to see was when she sacrificed herself in the final film. The role of females in Marvel films is diluted to just clever and sarcastic dialogue without any character development. Who the hell is Black Widow? Who is Natasha Romanov? What drives her? What are her core beliefs? What does she believe in? Good question because the MCU tried to cram all of those answers into half of Endgame.

@@aditib5635 She's gonna have her own movie to answer's these questions.

Will Atkins Charlize Theron in Young Adult was so incredible. Such a train wreck of a character but I just couldn’t look away. I also love that by the end of the movie she really hasn’t learned much of anything. Usually that would be a flaw but in that particular case I thought it was much more true to life.

They already did that with Gone Girl.

Yes I agree with this and it frustrates me.

I'm guessing it has something to do with the emotional/irrational trait that is usually attributed to women. It directly opposes it. But I agree with you: men can be emotional, as women can be tough. Truth is modern society usually don't portrait these genders as such, hence (i guess) why stories and movies are generally not written with those associations in mind, as it would not be well received by the audiences. (sorry if my english isn't perfect)

because that's masculine energy. Both Men and women have masculine and feminine energy, being emotional is not bad, it's feminine energy. But society says it's bad to be warm and emotional instead of cool and logical.

just a bookholic because it is

@@Elven. maculine engery and femenine energy? That doesn't even exist. Do you even know what energy is? Men are typically more masculine and women more typically femenine. And even though some characteristics may seam to be linked somehow they don't necessarily are. Women can be cold and tough and still be very femenine in some ways. Or be emotional and caring and be more maculine in some other ways.

Ben Wasserman I was missing the first three seasons on DVD and, got them for Xmas! I know the show is streaming but, whatever they did with color, hue, tone is completely off compared to the original airing or the DVD’s. I know it’s old school but, I love the original look and, intention of the show.

and willow, and faith too :)

The females in that show were well written & all able to handle themselves without being weak

shes my all time favorite protagonist, male or female

I can't like this comment enough. Olivia was simply the best

I was thinking of her throughout the video. She is such a fantastic role model. Her feminine qualities are portrayed as her strength. She isn't hyper sexualised. She wears generic flat work shoes for field work. I love her so, so much, even after all the years of having watched the show.

Exactly, Olivia's character is amazing. So real and inspiring.

Agree...she was one of the first female characters I really admired in scripted media as an adult.

The movie version was better

She’s a tuff girly girl

​@@brya9681 Hard disagree, Buffy in the show (if you've watched it) is very complex, interesting, and Sarah Michelle Gellar is an amazing actress.

@@Olivetree80 I've watched it and I didnt say the show wasnt good. I just think the movie is far better.

Buffy wasn't the sole female character in her show - so she wasn't boring. I agree that she's "Tough Girl Plus"

the shame is that for her to "be valuable" she has to be in competition with opposing forces. Achieving, competing, overcoming and subduing are masculine energies. Let's praise women for their feminine energy, not everything is about putting an opponent down and winning. Feminine energy is about uniting and connecting, not defeating

@@Elven. Men also unite and connect. But what do women do better than men? Where do women have a distinct advantage over men?

@@treacherousjslither6920 Don't you think that's a little bit of a broader generalization friend?

@@treacherousjslither6920 Socializing and some academic studies. In my field (medicine) 60 percent of people achieving the degree are females

both men and women have masculine and feminine energy. No one is saying men can't connect. I'm saying masculine traits are the only ones seen as powerful in female characters

Villanelle is an interesting psychopath, I wouldn't say she's a revolutionary 3d female character

love her!

i would also like morally grey female characters who aren't super hot too. or even morally good ones. just average looking female actors getting good roles please and thank you 👍🏽

also can we have some buff female characters please? so much superhero media and they are all still stick thin people. i mean, i say this cos im gay AND cos it makes sense

@@oof-wi7hp honestly big agree like ik buff women kinda perpetuates the "women needing to be as tough as men to be considered strong" thing but sometimes we just wanna see...buff women...........

You're dumb chief

@@Marco-ip3ie Exhibit A right here

@bissa You have to stop worrying about their fragile egos, be as direct as you can, let them know that they're wrong when they're wrong. Always be true to yourself, you may loose some friends but you'll feel much better about yourself and the new friends you gain will be so much more cool and your relationship with them will be stronger.

Except this video sums up what a lot of people criticise about "Mary Sues." That just being a "strong female character" isn't an acceptable stand-in for a well written character with complexity and nuance.

@@AdamRhodes536 actually i feel like the mary sue criticism has been hijacked by so many male nerds who cry at the sight of a female character simply existing that i don't trust it anymore. you are completely right. female characters deserve to be more than simply physically strong people - strong according to a limited male defined standard at that. but too many folks just scream "mary sue" at every capable female character and i am just. so fucking tired also plenty of male characters who are "strong" or "over-powered" and have no emotional depth otherwise exist in media, so why not women, ya know? the better direction would be to have female characters across the whole spectrum of tropes. that's what i look forward to atleast

Thanks, no thanks, for pushing the notion that those are "feminine" traits in the first place. The great thing about Fury Road is not that there are multiple women or the level of their "femininity", the great thing about it is that in this movie, women claim violence as something they can rightfully use, without needing any other excuse for it than "this is the world in which we life in, a world in which violence is the path to power, so we will use it".

@@swanpride what are you on about? My whole point is that traits that are thought to be traditionally feminine ARE NOT AUTOMATICALLY WEAK AND WRONG. Jesus fucking christ. But go ahead and be outraged for no reason. What i'm saying is, there is no one kind of strength in femininity or womanhood. You can be compassionate and be "strong". You can be the best sharp shooter and be "strong". And by strong I don't mean physical strength in case you're too slow to understand that.....which you seem to be. YIKES.

I just love how your friend values what you have to say and listens closely to your meaning rather than cherry picking the easiest interpretation to argue, ignoring everything else. /s

A woman's sexuality is a huge part of her strength. That's a woman's power. It's the equivalent of a man's physical power.

@@cockoffgewgle4993 It's actually not especially empowering at all to see a strong female character being undermind by catering to the "straight horny male gaze". So long as she fits into a very narrow view of youth, physical beauty and fitness standards, of course. It's very uncomfortable as a woman to notice that just about every movie, commercial, billboards etc. Encourage and rewards women who give up their dignity in order to titalate staight mens sex fantasies. I don't see that happening to men hardly ever. And even in movies that sexualise men a little bit, tend to do it to their female characters twice as much, and in a much more vulgar way than any male characters. It's disgusting. It makes it feel like our collective female personhood, our autonomy, our relatability as human beings with agency is being undermined in mass media so we can be alien sex objects for mens sexual consumption and nothing more. It feels creepy, threatening and supremely degrading. Like were basically sex objects to be bought from a store to be used like playthings and then thrown away like a used condom. I also attribute all the "Me too" stories to the public perception of womens roles in our society. Media is a tool for socialization and when women on screen are constantly being potrayed as sex objects, people do actually start treating women like their sex objects. Sex for women in particular can trap women in to a life of subservience and servitude in many different ways, if shes not careful. To say that it's our superpower is rediculas and false. That sounds like a poorly thought out statement of a straight male who wants to see tits basically.

@@Ragdollwasteland333 what an amazing answer, I could not agree more. Cheers from Paris.

@@cockoffgewgle4993 congratulations you've utterly and completely missed the point

Y E S Everyone hates on her so much and I just don't get it. Her femininity is beautiful and her strength is powerful!

So she is the same as Tyrion.

Only on the tv series... Brooks sansa still it's just a stone on little finger Game...

@@vanferuli3 well the books ended around season 5 in terms of development of the story so at that point Jon Snow is still dead, Daenerys is still struggling with her dragons and Aria is still in training so it's not surprising the character of Sansa didn't had the chance to be developed yet

Agreed wholeheartedly. I never understood the criticism behind her. She adapted and played the Game of Thrones and survived. Great character even after all the vitriol over S8

Perfect

well when you've been regulated to the idea that you're weak and stupid for most of history, espcially in media. A few decades of making a deal out of it isn't such a bad thing. And I super disagree that good female characters aren't done well today. Most of them are. I honestly just think you haven't come to terms with your own biases yet.

I thought Jo from Little Women was amazing. Very strong, very independent but also yearned for love.

@@assholebyginger I still need to watch that. Glad I've been hearing such glowing reviews, hell even my dad loved it

@@brya9681 It was very good. It only felt like a silly rom com for one scene in the fourth quarter of the film but that was done in purpose. Some of the titular little women are warm, some are cunning. I like how they portrayed both masculine and extremely feminine women as strong. They all had their own hardships they had to overcome.

Sarah F. your an idiot...stereotypes usually have some truth

@@macturner80 *you're

un spectateur how so 😂

@@macturner80 shut up, she is right. media and society in general is male dominated

Funny Little Frog no u shut up the reason beginning is because that’s what’s puts asses in the seats...women are a huge draw in media...just look at what sales action historically male dominated...sex historically male dominated... ur just mad because your not a man...but don’t worry they have procedures so you can pretend now...men are content being men women (modern) aren’t content period until the finally figure out that womanhood is about complimenting men not competing with them...these are just facts

This!

That's the point. Every character have flaws like most humans do. The only thing to overcome the character flaws is to challenge their conflicts. Whether a man or woman, humanity is not always a perfect one. And one who is overly perfect is a Mary Sue, an unrealistically overpowered character.

Too bad a lot males can't do that.

@@steamboatwill3.367 Can't do what?

@@steamboatwill3.367Explain please ?

It's not true for Carol, though. She is already multifaced, but the Anti-SJWs have pushed the narrative that she isn't.

I think you're missing the point a bit. Male characters can be one dimensional and still popular. I wanna name some people but also don't want to start a flame war lol 😅 Think of a movie where the guy is basically just strong and cool. Heck. The terminator is literally a robot.

Oh and the marvel characters you are referring to are dudes. Black widow is the solo tough girl, and ms Marvel was not well received by angry boys who can't handle a woman being a person. Besides that there aren't a lot of female characters that get a lot of screen time. So this isn't a good comparison

@@phillip2169 Wanda, Gamora, and Nebula have good development and Wanda will get even more in Doctor Strange 2. But I get what you mean, the male characters are more dimensional.

@@Aquarius20111 oh yeah Gamora and Nebula did have some good development

Zeina Ian agree , most of the women in that scene doesn’t really even know each other. If there were just little scenes beforehand of some of the girls bonding or even just acknowledging each other, then maybe. But it just looked like the writers had an afterthought of ‘Oh shit, what if and stay with me here guys, the *women* save CM and easily kill all these soldiers that even some of the male avengers struggled to kill.’ 🙄

It was fan service to give all the women their due. I liked it. But of course it wasn’t realistic, you’re watching time travel with creatures from other worlds...

Agree. It was entirely unearned and hamfisted

I want so badly to like Captain Marvel because she’s supposed to be “for me”, but she has the personality of wet cardboard. And I never realized Black Widow had any personality besides hot spy. Sucks that people can’t just write female characters like actual characters.

Fisticuffs Mate although i agree with CM having no personality, black widow had plenty of development in AOU, the winter soldier, and even civil war. it’s more subtle but her personality does shine through quite a lot.

Exaxtly.

I haven't seen the movie but I have a feeling this is what criticism of Captain Marvel was brought on by. That they made her strong for the sake of having a strong female example but without depth. And then u have ur everyday bigots complaining about feminism...

Blair is the tough girl in Gossip Girl

Lmao no Blair is the mean girl trope

Theres a video explaning mean girl trope already. They both belong there

Gossip girl 😒 ugh

@@bgcrp2005 so what would Serena be?

Hermione is another example of Trinity syndrome. She's smarter, more resourceful, a better witch than Harry and Ron. But in the end she's just there to support the chosen one, helping Harry achieve his destiny. We don't even hear about her dreams or aspirations, just know that she gives them up to follow him.

@@kitkatbar689 Well to be fair, we do have that one scene in the books when she is looking through pamphlets of wizarding jobs and dismisses a couple of them before Harry and Ron start talking about other stuff lol. You would think Hermoine would have researched all of that year 1 and decided on at least a couple of goals. I was going to say that we dont see too much of Ron's dreams either, but we do. He wants to do whatever it is that will make him loads of galleons and hopefully well known and well liked. His dreams are centered around getting out from under his brothers shadows and from the embarrassment he feels for being poor. Hermoine hardly even seems to even like her loving parents that much. Hmmm.

@@kitkatbar689 you need to read the books

I saw in an interview somewhere that because the writer of the movies was such a fan of Hermione, he kind of removed her flaws from the book when adapting her to the movie, so she becomes greater than Harry and Ron, but still in need of them? I heard the three even each other out in the book, but I haven't read them.

@@kitkatbar689 But the series is about Harry and not Hermione, so that makes sense. Doesn't it?

@@metalface_villain not really. Women were treated horribly in greek society. In viking society however, over half of the corpses on battlefields were found to be women. They just had better social equality than the greeks.

@@metalface_villain Although to quote one of my favorite childhood series, "if your best shot at equality is Sparta, then you're kinda stuck in pooptown with only a sand shovel."

@@metalface_villain oh, it wasn't meant to be a retort. The topic just reminded me of that line.

Women to die in war is horrible

@@oculus9561 "In viking society however, over half of the corpses on battlefields were found to be women." Got any sources on that?

Lol what? Points A & B I can agree with, but no one should have to dive into extra content to get what they want

@@tutumazibuko2510 you are entitled to your opinion, but C isn't really up for debate. You'd have to submit your complaint to the Wachowskis because they approved of the games story as canon & appointed Paul Chadwick who also created a couple of the Matrix comics. I was there from chapter 1.2 until the very end. There was a lot more than just the *Trilogy* 3 films. The Animatrix is an animated film that is probably the most important piece of supplemental material. I'd say the Enter the Matrix console game would be 2nd because the cut scenes were tied in directly to the path of Niobi & Ghost in Reloaded which you can watch on my channel. A close 3rd & arguably 2nd would be the Matrix comics, which originally were posted online and then eventually made in print. And last would be the mentioned Matrix online game which picked up at the end of Revolutions & I'm hoping is the prequel to the Matrix 4, but we'll see. Think about how many people complain about Reloaded & Revolutions. Not everyone was ready for more, including the studio that produced it. The additional media was hardly advertised. In retrospect, especially with how popular the Matrix theme has become now, when 20 years ago mainstream society labeled fans nerds for liking the films, I can really appreciate having had the opportunity to *choose* to pursue all of the additional material and information. Because now, I have an understanding that perhaps only 300 people (final number of Mxo users before the servers were shut down) or less could've gotten from the Matrix Universe experience. It's rewarding by itself & I've been in the process of sharing that knowledge of my experience on my channel, and just like I had to want to know more then, those who follow my content want to know more now. The problem is choice.

Same yet everyone going ham on them it’s like chill

They're saying that every incarnation is bad. They're just examining and acknowledging the nuances of tough girls in storytelling while also acknowledging the potential pitfalls of it if not examined and handled critically. "Remember that it is both possible and even necessary to simultaneously enjoy media while also being critical of its more problematic or pernicious aspects".

@300bpm You still sounds hurt. Talk to your therapist, hon.

@300bpm Not your baby girl, creep. You keep sounding hurt, I'm worried... forget the therapist, go straight to the hospital. By your babble of "sjw are crazy, they murdered my mom and I can prove it", it must be that your *extremely* fragile Masculine™ sensibilities got hit. 😔

@300bpm And stop stalking people on RU-vid, creep. That's not cute.

My favorite type 😎

By tough do you imply masculine?

@@dsmyify no.

@@dsmyify emotional toughness is toughness as well

@Mo'mina Makin Exactly

I know this movie! And this reads just as bad as when he said it.

Thank you, Lord Rogers.

@Moist Gnome Real people often come with some pretty damning flaws though. Just don't be a dick

Well, to be fair, fictional characters don't always need to resemble real people. That's what fiction allows us to do - create stuff that wouldn't otherwise exist. And I see nothing wrong with looking up to impossible characters. As long as you find something worth emulating in a character, then that's enough.

I think she does exist just not like in action movies where they are physically strong I think they exist as emotionally strong women for example a single mother that does her best to provide for her children despite her circumstances (this is just one example)

naomi walton Speak for yourself.

Almost any wirritng trope is a male invention tho

Seriously? Can you not make the difference between what you or the author of the video personally believe, and what we, as a SOCIETY, believe?

@@ouicertes9764 I dont think the author or society believe that men dont love their family or that women love their family more then men. In the same statement the author sites creativity as a female quality. It's the same thing as when the anti sjws call something like honor or bravery a male quality. It's just kinda silly.

I keep thinking about this for some reason. I dont think I made my point sufficiently clear. I dont really disagree with the points made in this video. I think the arguments they use are lazy. I think it's worse to make a bad argument then it is not to make one. What this is is potential fodder for some shappearo (no, I dont care enough to look how to spell his name) wannabe to own the libs

Also I find your reply absolutely insufferable. Can you not use contractions? Why is the author the only one how gets to have an opinion on media made by some one else? If they didn't want people to comment on their commentary then why didn't they disable the comments? You know they can do that right? Holy crap, why did you capitalize SOCIETY? What makes you think that you, or the author for that matter, is the ultimate authority on what we as a SOCIETY believe? Do you think I'm not a member of SOCIETY? If your going to masturbate, please do it in privet.

I know what you're talking about. That take off these gender genetics and deep down, we're human. But these genders are real. Women traditionally don't build houses because our shoulders and body structure aren't built to make one. Males traditionally don't hunt for edible plants, sew and make art because they're brains are (according to research) usually better off focusing on the bigger ideas (e.g. building houses) rather than focusing on the tiny details. And because a lot of males back then were so biologically equipped for hunting and finding food, likewise we women developed greater areas for empathy and maternity. There IS such a thing as division between those two. To me, not acknowledging the difference is as worse as blatantly pushing the two genders in comfy, little boxes. There's a reason why EQUITY is different from Equality.

Agreed. It's a double standard. We only level these criticisms when the character is female.

They never really do it for men tho. It’s done in a way that’s supposed to be feminist but doesn’t work. For men we just call it boring

The male term is Gary Stu. It has been levied at male characters in the past. Maybe not as much as female characters, but it still has been used.

@@judewakefield7213 That's probably because we don't have any movement demanding good representation in movies and other media. I mean, there's plenty shit men characters. VFrom the top of my head, there's a stereotype that is fairly common that a comic relief male character is either stupid and/or patronised by their peers just for the sake of comic relief. Ron Weasley from the Harry Potter films come to mind, and he's such a different character in the books.

​@@AugustoXRock I'm not sure if it's true that there is not a movement for representation for male characters. Especially after the explosive backlash against movies like TLJ and CM.

💯👏👏👏👏 I came away with a really bad taste in my mouth at the end of this and you summed up why perfectly.

THANK YOU!

It’s not about taking ALL of those characters away but adding flawed feminine characters to the mix. Bat Man is the stereotypical tough guy but has a family he cares about. Why do I care more about Captain America in MCU than Superman (they are basically supposed to be same)? Because of his internal emotional turmoil that I don’t get from Superman. Geraltn is stereotypical tough guy but has his loving relationship with his friend and romantic partner. Actually Witcher has many women who are tough and well rounded. I love Lara Croft and Trinity too but they shouldn’t be only examples. Also Xena was a loving caring selfless mom on top of being a warrior. It’s about adding more than taking out

@@Naa45702 I think you make a good point

I too was shocked at the lack of Xena references as she was my role model. She was another example with a genuinely human character arc while her womanness was only typically used as a plot device against others as they would underestimate her.

I'm also disappointed that Alita Battle Angel was left out of this video as she was by far the most interesting female action character we got in 2019 and where all the male characters existed to support her.

@@julius-stark there is no place for Alita Battle Angel on the feminist discourse i guess...their loss

Senior Woodz The Take can be a great example of echo chambers time to time.

Off the top of my head, a guy with tough girl qualities is just... a guy. The “tough girl” qualities are traditionally male which is why no one bats an eye when a male has them

Trope isn't a negative term, unlike the word "stereotype". A trope is merely a reoccurring theme, in this case a set of characteristics that is repeated over and over again throughout different works of fiction. There are also male tropes in fiction, some of which are similar to this so-called "tough girl" (the tough guy, the stoic hero...). And people got bored of them tbh, which is why we have characters like Deadpool being hugely successful

@@EtamirTheDemiDeer thats called a stereotype friend. Those qualities are said to be inherently male in western cultures because women were told to suppress those kinds of things. Imagine all the women that have lived and died having so much potential badassery but got shut down at every turn.

@Rtkts this person fucking knows the score. Very well said.

Osiris Paradim you were specifically taught to oppress being strong and rational? In America in the 20th and 21st centuries? Are you sure? When and where is this oppression espoused?

I assure you, nuanced take like yours here is endlessly more accurate take than anything in this video.

@Lee Ara Yea it broke my heart, I'm still not over it lol