For those confused about the way the story started, it was standard practice to assume that unescorted submarines in the Caribbean could be hostile -- exchanges of identification signals was the typical means of verifying that an unidentified sub was a friendly, but shooting first was still common. It's believed that was the fate of the USS _Dorado,_ a fellow _Gato_ sub that left New London bound for Panama and was never heard from again -- a patrol aircraft based out of the Guantanamo Bay naval base engaged two different unescorted subs in the time frame when the _Dorado_ would've been passing through, one of which fired on the aircraft when it tried signaling them.
@792slayer Not up close, sure, but visual confirmation from the air wouldn't have been as easy -- that's why they used those daily signal patterns as a sort of analog IFF. Of course, given the amount of damage even a single sub could do to an unaware port, 'better safe than sorry' was the kind of mentality they adopted when protecting the homefront -- a degree of paranoia was necessary, they felt, especially while Germany still posed a threat in the Atlantic.
@@Nitrinoxus fair. Fluckey kinda proved that point by torpedoing a Japanese shallow water port with USS Barb. I guess I just figured they would have been better trained in recognition, given the stakes.
@792slayer The first sub that the patrol craft engaged was passing through what the crew believed to be a restricted area (they received incorrect coordinates on the boundaries of the restricted zones) at nearly 9 at night, under moonlit but stormy skies -- if the sub _was_ the _Dorado,_ the inability to identify the brand-new sub is at least _somewhat_ understandable. (The fact that the second sub they encountered later that evening opened fire on the plane suggests they might've been being paranoid for a good reason.)
Just to point out: Shooting Torpedoes at an approaching Destroyer is an extremely risky move at that time as the torpedoes do not have guidance, the ship is facing you, showing only a small silhouette, and if it fails, you are in a very vulnerable position right below the surface where you are rather easily spotted or even rammed. Most WW2 Sub commanders did not even attempt this stunt once in their entire career. Submarines in that era were not well equipped to attack surface warships. To pull this off multiple times, and even be successful most of the time is simply nuts. Its quite suprising that the sub did not sink due to the sheer weight of Dealey's giant balls.
@@elhefe83 Nor only that, but many WW-2 era torpedoes left telltale trails of bubbles on the surface that pointed out the location of the submarine that fired them. A fact destroyer captains used to find and sink the submarine. However firing a spread at close range at a charging destroyer would ensure one will hit, and one is more than enough to literally blow a destroyer apart.
@@elhefe83 extremely foolish also. A destroyer is far less valuable than the cargo ship and its cargo. Expending all of your torpedoes on the escorts, then limping away damaged is really not very good strategy. That is winning the battle, but not helping to win the war.
@@stevenpace892 I agree with that. Also he succeeded few times, but ultimately, as we see, he failed, since from the wreckage picture we see that Sub suffered a direct hit, and a bulls-eye on top of that. RIP the sailors from both sides, but in war there is no place for a foolish bravado... it cost lives and a lot of them.
Thanks for this great story. I highly encourage anyone interested in America’s WWII sub service to visit the memorial park in Muskogee. OK. The 52 subs still on eternal patrol are memorialized there, as well as the USS Batfish being on static display. Thanks again for a fitting tribute to the submariners of the Greatest Generation.
I may have to cross-reference that list of ships. I recently learned that my grandfather narrowly avoided getting picked to crew a submarine that went missing on her maiden voyage -- it got me curious about which vessel that was. (I'd say it was a lucky break, but Gramps got assigned to decoy duty instead, and spent most of the war aboard a cruiser that loudly pretended to be a vital Navy vessel to bait Japanese attacks -- which didn't _work,_ because really, who thought it _would?)_
I grew up in OKC and never knew that existed! The 45th Infantry museum in OKC is rather small but they've got some cool stuff on display, or at least they did back in the day (I have a vague feeling they closed it down at some point but am too lazy to look it up lol). I don't know if I'll ever be back that way long enough to make the trip to Muskogee but if I am I'll definitely check the submarines out, thanks for the recommendation!
@@dmdrosselmeyer I went to the 45th ID museum in the summer of 2022, just a couple years ago, and they were open and moreover seemed to be doing well. They have very good displays. Decent collection of vehicles, pretty good collection of uniforms, not to mention they're the home of Bill Mauldin's drawings.
I just finished reading Captain Edward L. Beach Jr.'s book, 'Submarine!' When the Harder sank my heart sank with it. One of my nephews is a submariner in the U.S. Navy. Another nephew works at Portsmouth Naval Shipyard developing technology used to rescue submariners if their ships sink. Your videos are phenomenal. This one really struck home.
My grandfather worked at the shipyard in the design dept. 1929- 1971. 42 years!! He never shared details of anything he worked on, but the mind boggles!!!
So many lives lost. I find these stories so fascinating because they were often what led to better equipment and/or safety practices. But the lives lost along the way always impact me significantly.
I just saw how during the Civil war the rich people would sit up on a hill, get all dressed up, set up tables and eat and watch the war, that was both north and south, imagine watching that and eating, then you think of the poor young men in these submarines and ships, absolutely sickening
USS Cobia in Manitowoc Wisconsin, also a Gato. Got to spend the night on her as part of a Cub Scout trip. Fun fact: 28 of the Gatos were built in Manitowoc over the course of the war.
@@jbuckley2546 We visited Ieper {Ypres} and saw the Menin Gate- it was literally shocking to see SO many names of Men inscribed over the massive monument from all over the world who had ''No known Grave''.
Nothing but huge respect for anyone who is crazy enough to get in a can that sinks on purpose. Imho, they're heroes for just climbing aboard those things.
Whenever BoB does warship content, its always gonna be a good one as always. This channel and you have only gotten better and better since i started following you a year or two ago!
Hell, whether Six or 60,000 feet deep, is still Hell. May those who never came back, never be forgotten - thank you, BoB, for helping make sure they won't be.
Indeed no braver man serving in the military exists than a submariner. Peacetime or wartime, the greatest enemy is the might of the ocean all around the submarine's hull.
Idk why, but RU-vid just stopped showing me your content. That's really sad considering how incredible your content is and how much brighter you shine compared to others.
I have been a subscriber since this chanel had about 20k subs. Its should be 200k at least by now. Awesome storylines and excelent narrating. One of my top 3 faves
I subscribed two years ago, but somehow RU-vid took it off my subscription list and there was a video l that I had not viewed so l re subscribed. Great channel 👍
this video is so weird for me. CT almost never gets mentioned. ive lived here my entire life and have multiple friends who work at EB. they can’t tell me much about their work, but it’s always fun when your friend is like “oh i went on a sub today to check out something.” i’m like??? you sit at your desk 95% of the time what is happening
I love your work, these WW2 stories especially, me being a WW2 nut. Submarines are one of my favourite subjects, I am 60 years old and still love learning new things and stories related to submarine life. congratulations on your success, and for braving the camera. Respect and admiration from Canada.
That was a nice change to do war ships especially subs. My wife’s grandfather was a submariner and lost on a secret mission that changed the war and the info was only made a available to us in 2020 I’d vote for more boat battle stories thxbu greatly
I very much enjoyed your story of the USS Harder. I’m 77years old and was visiting SF bay to see my dad who was up here working at Lockheed we hadn’t moved to the Bay Area yet. It was 1956 and I was probably about 8. My dad took us on a tour of a ww2 sub. I don’t know what kind but I remember how compact it was. Thank you for the story of the Harder. My dad served in the Philippines. Good memories for me.
No one seems to realize how much submarines and submariners contributed to later space exploration. After all, underwater really is another planet as far puny humans are concerned. Living/working in cramped spaces and in isolation from surface communication for varying periods of time was the dress rehearsal for the Mercury, Gemini and Apollo programs. The Thresher went down when I was 12 and I had nightmares for weeks because I didn't know the crew would have died almost instantly at crush. I pictured them breathing, sweating and waiting as they died one at a time. Each morning I would think "They must all be dead by now." But I had no one to ask. That sad event taught me in a visceral way that there really are things worse than death in this world. We climbed to the moon on the bodies of submariners, may they rest in peace.
Amazing history, sad they didn't survive the war. My dad was on the Philippines during the war. So many lives lost in war and it's aftermath. We never learn.
Pardon my french BUT wow man this channel kicks so much ass! And it has to be the best thing to watch and learn about. When it’s dark in your room because it’s late at night and you’re just relaxing in because getting ready to fall asleep. Although the other night i fell asleep watching this channel and i ended up having a nightmare about a ship i was on sinking.
In hindsight Gato-Class commanders ran a huge risk. The USS Harder was 311 feet long but could only dive to 300 feet. Think about that, using a piece of stick, pencil or a drinking straw as a guide!
This was notoriously common where the bow could reach maximum depth while the stern would still be close to the surface. It meant these ships had to dive very carefully as diving too hard would easily send you beyond crush depth
18:00 The captain must have been in Australia for a while to make that "smell the eucalypts" joke. Few foreigners even know they smell like eucalyptus oil lol. Thanks BoB. ⚓
True enough, but his overly aggressive approach got him and his crew killed, in all likelihood. With all of the respect that's due to the Harder and her valiant crew, they were of no value to the war effort sitting on the bottom. This is especially true since, by that time in the war, a turning point had been reached which saw the IJN in a steady decline. It's kinda like staying on the trigger of a machine gun too long and melting the barrel. It's hugely effective at first, but ends up being worthless scrap metal. After 2 or 3 successful destroyer sinkings, he should have come back and taught others his methodology, instead of wasting himself and his crew. He racked up some great kills, but he was also very lucky and certifiably crazy. All of that being said, the people on the home front needed heros, and the press gave them one. Cheers!
Wow. Just wow. What an incredible video! This was a beautiful, intense, gripping retelling of this heroic but sad story. RIP to the crew of the USS Harder 💔
Outstanding work! Thank you for this incredible video on the USS Harder, CMDR Dealey, and his dedicated crew. Their bravery and service are among the finest legacies of our submarine force. CMDR Dealey's actions during World War II, particularly during the USS Harder's fifth patrol, earned him the Medal of Honor. Under his command, the Harder became one of the most successful submarines of the war, sinking multiple enemy destroyers and playing a crucial role in disrupting Japanese operations. CMDR Dealey and his crew's valor and sacrifice are truly inspirational, and they are rightfully honored for their heroic service.
This little known history has now been told. The second world war, although so well documented in so many ways, has so many important stories to be uncovered. Thanks so much for this really interesting story - and as always - great video!
Thanks for the video. A few minor things: With a maximum diving depth of 300 feet - I doubt the captain dove to 400. The wolfpack tactic wasn't implemented by Germany in WW1 - but WW2. IIRC Karl Dönitz invented it after WW1 whilst being POW.
erm. actually it was not at all unheard of for sub captains to push past official max depths- on the logic enemy depth charges would be set to within max depths. If you read first hand ww2 submariners accounts is defo a tool in the box.
@@keefymckeefface8330 If you go over max depth - there is always a chance you don't need to worry about depth charges any more - because your sub already imploded. Setting depth charges to max dive depth makes little sense. First of all, it's one thing to spot a sub. Recognising the type when all you see is a periscope is kinda difficult. Additionally - it takes a few minutes for a sub to get to max depth. As a good sub captain - you change course and go fast whilst the depth charges explode and enemy sonar is totally blind. The deeper the charges are set - the longer they need to get there - increasing the chances of the sub to get somewhere else by then.
@@stanislavczebinski994. Yeah it carries risks.but generally subs had safety facto r built into max depth so you could try your luck with very little risk at first, once more risk as go deeper. Second. I never said it was first thing to do once attacked. Your inserting that falsely. But it is a tactic used successfully by sub captains of all navies during ww2.... I have read of it war diaries, firsthand accounts, from all of the major submarine navies. I repeat First hand accounts.
@@stanislavczebinski994not did I ever claim attacking forces would ID sub by it's periscope. That's stupid claim I not make, again, inserted by you. Attacking captains would not need precise id. Max depth on depth charges is preset as part manufacturing process, based on intel of the time re max diving depths of enemy subs. You really do need to read some better sources cos your arguments are crocks of wotsit
@@stanislavczebinski994re a good captain. A good captain does what his enemy least expects. Your go fast while charges blind sonar is one truck.one. just one. No good captain was a one trick pony.
Great work, BoB! I especially enjoy it when you branch off into military ships! For anyone interested in learning more about the catastrophe that was the Mark 14 Torpedo line, Drachinifel's video on the subject is very informative.
Excellent video! I love WWII submarines. Fun fact: the USN built so many submarines during the war that they were running out of fish to name them after. So the USN paid a marine biologist to analyze all the marine life that lacked common names, and assign them common names so the navy could name a submarine after them.
Such an amazing video. Especially now that there's so much AI cookie-cutter crap on RU-vid, watching a video well-researched, in-depth, and narrated by an actual human is a real treat. Thank you 👍
What a wonderful video. Great footage, storytelling and timing on point. An absolute pleasure to watch. Thank you for the time and effort you put into this. Side note, "Crash dive" by Craig DiLouie is one of my favorite Audiobooks. Narrated by R.C. Bray. If you liked this video, you will love this series.
If you live by the sword, you die by the sword. Those who fight for the greatest honour, have no wish to survive the battle. As always - Big Old Boats tells a story brilliantly. My deepest respects to any relatives of those who served on U.S.S Harder. You are a descendant of the bravest, and most honourable kind of sailor there is. The submariner. As British, and as a seafaring people, I couldn't be more proud to know every story of American heroism during WWII. This is the reason I call every American, my cousin.
I don't think it was mentioned here, and pardon if I missed it. But seeming that Dealey was from Dallas, did they name the ill fated event of November 1963 after him? Dealey Plaza?
What an absolutely fascinating and beautifully put together video, thank you so much for your hard work and thank you to all those who served during WW2 so that we have the freedom to watch things like this now.
Mr. Little, SIR! No funny typing this time. Thank you for one of the most detailed and respectful World War II Submarine videos I have vevr watched. MELKA JF BT3 B55 1853
man... this video reminds me of an old Nintendo game for the original NES called silent hunter or silent service where i conducted a US sub in the Pacific... anyone else here play it before?... little nostalgia for those old enough to have played it.
I served in the Navy during the first gulf war and never came close to combat of any sort. I have had a sense of loss and a great deal of sadness soften by gratefulness knowing the sacrifices these young men (many young boys) made. I know they kept a positive mind set until the very end, so full of hope that their captain would keep them alive and deliver them home safely. I believe in God, of the battle between good and evil constantly being fought. It is my sincere hope that all of these men are in heaven and after 80 years reunited with their loved ones. I think what is so terrible sad today is the fact that war is being waged at various levels of intensity all over the world. What people don’t understand is Satan hates us all, he doesn’t take sides. He skillfully feeds selfish individuals what they lust for and he enables them to do great harm by patiently planting the seeds that lead to do horrific things that lead to destruction.
During WW2, a US politician said in a media interview that US sub losses had so far been few in the Pacific because the Japanese had been setting their depth charges too shallow. Within weeks, sub losses jumped as the Japanese set their depth charges deeper, thanks to the information.
Showers were used for stowage of fowl weather gear and or food, water from her freshwater stills primarily went to the batteries, fresh water cooling in the engines, cooking, the famous coffee urn kept full 24 hours a day, and occasionaly what we called "submarine showers" which amount to washing yourself off in the sink. Can tell the narrator of this was never on submarines, esp. a WWII Fleet boat :)
Butler Township police should not be sharing any blame. It's a small agency not equipped or trained for protection details. Secret service, and especially the advance team dropped the ball.
An interesting Sideways Connection comment for you; I had never gone digging into who it was that gave Dealey Plaza it's name. It seems a bit of a No Brainer now....
(5:46) Mid to Late War Porpoise there with the iconic tower. (5:59) Early War with her more bulky tower. Very cool to see. Not the only changes of course but those are most visible in those photos.
