The Trouble with Trolleybuses 

I like trolleys! But, they are far from perfect - figuring out the flaws in various transit technologies is critical to figuring out what to use where. Snowy mountain towns should clearly go with trolleys if starting a system today, but if you are a warm and flat location I think battery buses have a lot of advantages! Thanks for all the insightful comments!

I live in Kyiv and the trolleybuses, which are definitely not modern, work really well.

I think there is a real benefit in lifetime carbon emissions when we minimize the quantity of batteries in any vehicle. I still think we should expand trolleybus networks even if it would reduce the required battery capacity on each bus by just half. I've also been worried lately about how big EV batteries are getting. Some brands are even talking about 200KwH in sports cars and SUV's. People assume that the longest range option is the best, but the bigger the battery, the higher the lifetime emissions.

I feel like this video should be titled “the trouble with North American trolley buses”

Reliability of the Trolleys: I haven't experienced a single problem in years here in Zurich. Maybe a lack of maintenance in Vancouver? Also, the switches can be automated to prevent wrong switching. And lastly, modern trolley buses have large batteries to drive multiple stations without overhead wires. This allows complicated junctions to be passed with the trolleys lowered, so no speed reduction necessary. This also greatly improves efficiency of the infrastructure, because you build the overhead wires only where they are easy to install and are used by multiple lines.

Hybrid trolleybuses already work in Poland. These trolleybuses do not require any special quirks as they can switch on route directly on a bus stop. So the future is now :)

Great audio! But now you have awakened the Trolley Bus cabal.

Seems exaggerated to me. I live in Salzburg where we have a trolleybus system since 1940. In the last 20 years they really expanded the network and even changed a few bus lines into trolleybus lines. Since a trolleybus can last up to 30 years if well maintained, and the overheads up to 50 years it is of course something for long term use. The efficiency is so much better, and with IMC-Technology it is also no problem anymore to drive with out overhead lines. Of course dewiring can happen, but it's not very often nor drastic.

Reece: Old fashion looking trains aren’t fine R32: And I took that personally

In my region we’ve almost completely switched to battery buses and i just wish we’d instead opted to invest more into a trolley system…. Buses breaking down due to drivers forgetting to charge, batteries running out much quicker than normal without reason, having to switch to a different bus in the middle of the line in winter because of battery capacity issues (it wasn’t even that cold, it didnt even freeze). This doesn’t even take into account the massive amount or rare earth metals that have to be used and my main concern, the batteries degrading over time. If the buses already struggle to operate at peak capacity when they’re new, it’s gonna be hell in 5 years time…. And to the people saying « well at least it’s clean electric », most countries still rely on fossil fuels for a major part of their electricity network. And lastly, the fast charging points for the buses use more power than complete neighbourhoods…. to have this system work, fast charging is required but this is also wildly inefficient. No transit system is perfect, but battery buses are especially flawed in their current form.

Overall i think the video is well done and provides a lot of useful information! However, one small thing that could be improved is that by the end, the viewer is left with the impression that we have a definitive conclusion: that trolley buses have been rendered irrelevant. This is achieved using the familiar format of, "Well there may be advantages X, but there's also disadvantages Y" which gives the impression of symmetry, aka the disadvantages cancel out the advantages. This may well be true, but we need further information to establish that. For instance, the video mentions that trolley buses can save money by using electricity instead of fossil fuels, by increasing vehicle lifespans, and by reducing maintenance costs, but doesn't say how big these savings potentially are. It then mentions the costs from infrastructure, logistical issues and operational inflexibility, but doesn't mention the magnitude of these costs. Without specifics to compare, the viewer is left to assume that they balance one another when in reality one (either advantages or disadvantages) could fully outweigh the other. Rather than having the viewer assume, I'd prefer to see actual numbers compared, perhaps using a specific city as a case study. If this is considered beyond the video scope, then simply taking a neutral tone rather than arguing a position would also work. Also, the video does't mention that many of the additional logistical challenges with trolley buses such as training staff for their unique maintenance applies to battery buses too. And battery buses have other issues such as challenges in extreme cold. Some have separate fossil fuel heaters for passenger comfort to avoid draining the batteries for instance. But overall, cool and information video! Keep up the great work :D

I lived in cities with trolleybuses before when I was little. They are great! Silent, powerful acceleration, excellent hill climbing abilities... A joy to ride and look at their twin poles negotiating curves and crossings & switches! Way more fun than buses 😂

In Mexico City we have trolley buses that also have batteries, they are hybrids and are great, they can deviate, and reconnect to the line automatically when they are near them, and it has proven to be useful when there’s manifestations in the city center

When I studied in a city with trolleybuses and regular buses, the trolley was always the preferred mode of transportation. When I moved to a city with trams, trolleys and busses, the preferred transport option became trams. Now, while living in a city that also has a metro, trams are still my most preferred option, mostly because Prague is really beautiful and you cant enjoy that fifty feet under and also because the tram network here is so wast, that you can go almost anywhere interesting in the city with it. But I believe that the major reason for the relative failure of trolleys in North America is due to the lack of housing dense enough to make suburban lines (economically) sustainable. With that, at least for a part of most journeys has to be taken by car (poor walkability doesn't help) and once you are in a car... well you stay there. So in the end the ridership depends on low-income people. Whereas in Eastern Europe, we didn't have that for a long time (or, to be more specific, we only had low-income people, living in mass housing). In the last twenty years, the situation changed drastically with the introduction of the sprawl and as a result sub urbanisation poses all the same problems as in America, but so far they are mitigated by the existence of a relatively working city fabric that can still support a strong network. Also, the trolleys and equipment for them are still being manufactured and developed here. As for their future, I wouldn't be anywhere near as sceptic as you are: They are way lighter than electric busses, have a very long service life and since electric cars will be mandated in Europe over the next few years, we can expect skyrocketing costs of rare earth materials batteries are made off. For this cost reason alone I believe that independent electric traction will stay a niche, only used where it will make the most sense, while the trolley will soldier on. Also, if you have a dedicated BRT, it is very easy and relatively cheap to upgrade it to a trolleybus service, once the demand is established, especially in comparison to upgrading it to light rail or even metro.

I believe trolley buses make sense in certain more localized situations. Cities such as San Francisco with very steep hills, trolley buses have better traction than diesel or hybrid buses. Also, for densely populated urban cores located in older cities, such as the US Northeast, trolley buses make sense as many streets are not wide enough for buses to pass (I also think street running streetcars are also good in some of those circumstances). But if you look at newer cities, such as those in the US Sunbelt, which have lots of motorways and wide, multi-lane trunk boulevards, they don't make sense.

I hope in Vancouver our trolley buses stick around for a long time!!

I like the video (as good as all your videos), but I think you should at least mention some flaws of battery buses (like range). Here in Salzburg there are 12 trolleybus lines (though 2 of them don't operate on the weekend) and the latest line extension brought battery trolleybuses so they can drive a part of the line without wires - I think it's a good solution.

I think there are ways to rewire without the driver having to get out of the bus now. We have them in Seattle, although the bus has to be aligned well.

The city I grew up in, a small one, roughly 100,000 people now, called Pleven, had its trolleys since 1985 and network is only growing and upgrading. Now there are 18 routes, 4 of them recently opened, 60 new hybrid and small-battery trolleys (allowing them to run several kms on battery), a few old Russian one, one to be restored as a historical vehicle, 15 all-battery buses to serve in industrial areas. The last ones were just bought and will replace previous diesel bus routes. If well planned, this might be the one of few or may be the only all-electric bus fleet in Europe. Also happy that every time I visit the city, all buses seems to be pretty busy, full with people even outside rush hours.

Trolleybuses are quite popular in post-USSR countries and in Eastern Europe. However, Russia also decided to reduce trolleybus systems. For example, trolleys were disappeared in Moscow and Perm. Perm is resonancing millioner city in recent years with reducing of trams and trolleybuses system. Hello, degradation! Russia and Kazakhstan also, are currently experiencing the situation which was in US and Western Europe in 60's and 70's with reducing of public transport and building more highways. It is good to mention that each year hundreds of km new roads are constructing in Moscow triggering more and more traffic jams. Some wide streets with pedestrian crossings and boulevards became urban highways with 6-8 lanes for each way! That's awful! I mentioned also capital of Kazakhstan-Astana with 1 million people, where no any rail transport(trams, commuter rail, subway, LRT) and complicated bus systems(BRT, trolleybuses), only conventional buses with fortunately good frequency 10-15 mins))

Pantograph type solutions are definitely better. There’s a reason a lot of modern trams go for the pantograph over the pole. Pole is difficult for junctions, pole can have issues staying on the wire and slows things down. Pantographs can be raised and lowered at will far easier than a pole. Although would still suffer the overtaking issue unless you have different wires for the bus stops and the continuing road, which might look a bit cursed but still doable.

Agree, Trolley buses make most sense in dense urban areas with a combination of trams and trolleys using the same infrastructure

Audio is much better now!!

I live in lovely city of Bratislava, Slovakia with population of 500 000 people. We use 3 modes of transport (buses, trolleybuses, trams). Trams are generally used for highest capacity (where there is sufficiently flat terrain). There are basically 2 usecases for TB: 1. High frequency lines: less than 10 minutes frequency (often times more than one line on the most of the system). 2. Steep terrains where regular buses transition systems will get worn down in few short years. It is definitely not a big deal to have dedicated depot and maintenance facility for TB. Few facts: # Trams: 200 # Trolley buses: 150 # Diesel Buses: 600 There are 5 depots some of them combined, 2 of them that serves trolley buses. There are even cities such small as 100 000 people that still uses TBs. Almost half of their fleet is actually TBs. On the other hand, only very niche applications are used by battery electric buses such as line going trough forest/park. Please take into consideration other parts of the world than North America, worst public transit region of the world. Sometimes, your first principle reasoning, which you most of the time use, does not reflect in the real world.

The system about recharging battery buses on the go does exist. In Vienna Austria Batterie buses are on the 1a and 2a lines and when on a major tram network they charge from the overhead wires. Its great however they are only in the inner city and Veinna has a massive tram network so it would be easy to implement on some lines.

I think trolleys have some trouble but they are still way better than battery buses

We have a lot of trolleys in Cluj-Napoca and it's quite nice I would say. There is a chance we will have a new line installed where I live.

I remember when London had wires all over the place. Trolleybuses disappeared in 1962.

Does anyone know of any study which look into the cost comparison between building and maintaining overhead wires vs. buying a lot of 200+ kwh lithium batteries and replacing them every 8 to 10 years? Common sence tells me the trolley line should be significantly cheaper in the long run as it's just a bunch of wires (and rectifiers but battery electric buses need those too). It would be interesting to know for sure though. But to be clear, I don't expect trolleys everywhere, on low demand routes, they would probably never beak even, however if a city needs a frequent service and does not quite have the money or the will to build overhead wires and rails for trams or if it has steep hills, trolleybuses seem to me as the second best solutions - you get most benefits of trams (mainly low operating cost) but you only need to build and maintain half the infrastructure. On the topic of a trolleybus passing another trolleybus, in Brno (Czechia) at trolleybus stops on main roads the wires split into two lines. One goes into the stop and the other one continues on. At the end of the stop the split-off wires merge with the main line. This way one trolleybus can pass anotherone, though one of those trolleybuses has to be in the stop.

I like the hybrid idea. First build an infrastructure of battery busses, then build wires in busy areas so they can run while charging, then if the wires eventually cover enough area build larger busses that take advantage of the extra power and don't need a battery weighing them down.

One thing about battery packs that is often left out is refurbishing. It's done today, local company here does it on 1st Nissan Leaf battery packs. One replaces the degraded cells, wraps the pack up and... well not new. But not far off as well. At FRACTION of the cost of a new pack. Imagine that on bus packs. I guess bigger transit systems could even do that inhouse.

Rewiring is not a problem at all for IMC trolleybuses - poles can be automatically lifted from driver's cab and connected to catenary using pole catchers (they are very simple, but effective) on a bus stop. Check out some videos with IMC trolleybuses on RU-vid from Budapest and St. Petersburg. So, In-Motion charge trolleybuses is a preferable option when you already have some infrastructure, because they are most cost-effective: you don't need to bring on board heavy battteries, you don't need to spend time for charging after every ~100 km, hence you need less drivers and less buses, because when battery bus is staying and spending time for charging, IMC trolleybus carries passengers.

Just the fact that trolleybuses do not need batteries to operate makes them vastly superior to battery electric buses in terms of ecology, safety and the ,,human cost"

On a note about familiarity, I used to work for a truck leasing company. We had three Compressed Natural Gas powered trucks. From a previous employer, I was the only person at the terminal familiar with them, so was called either off other work, and a few times on my day off, to come sort these matters out. Of course only having three of them, it was rare, and the company was very polite about it, but from a company standpoint, having just one guy familiar with these trucks led to delay.

I see an advantage of trolleybuses in that they can climb up hills better than the struggling diesel buses, hence their use in San Francisco an other hilly cities.

China has been experimenting with supercapacitor-powered trolleybuses for a few years now. Basically, a bus stops at a stop, recharges its supercapacitor very quickly, and rides on until the next stop, where the same thing happens. Capacitors are cheaper than Li-ion batteries, and have much more charge-discharge cycles. Similar concept to the Belgian gyro-bus from 1950s.

Imao a trolley bus makes sense where the required capacity exides that of a regular bus, but is not enough to justify a streetcar or lightrail, but you want to keep the option open, when demand increases to upgrade it to a streetcar. With a trolley bus you already have done about 15% of the initial investment, installing catenary poles and such. I think I commented on this once before. Look into the Gyrobus, super interesting concept which sadly never took of. It has the advantages of a Trolley bus, without the trolley wires and not the disadvantage of the battery bus, that it has to carry the heavy lithium ion battery around. Also well, lithium mining not so great.

Trolleybuses (with smaller batteries to allow easy route extension/add flexibility) for "express" routes that are to get between parts of the city fast, battery/natural gas buses for inner-district routes, that's my solution. Also, "fast" switches have to be installed so the trolleybuses don't have to slow down on switches.

In my area they recently trialled EVs with pantographs for overhead charging at termini. The bus can go out on a full charge, and on each turnaround it can go pan up for a couple of minutes against an overhead panel to recover a bit of charge. No need for wires everywhere.

Buses with Series 50 Detroit Diesel engines scare me when they start up those engines so I prefer being next to a trolley starting up since it’s very quiet

I am temporarily living in san Francisco which of course has a current trolleybus system. Now Muni, or SFMTA) their transport system, already has the infrastructure (needless to say) Trolleybus do have the advange of not eeding to be charged as the 600 or 700 VDC would always be there. There is a snall system supplimenting with limited range lithium ion batteries that get chatrged off the wires as well. Muni has just spent millions (exact figure not known) of dollars on new New Flyer single and articulated buses -- which are from a Canadian company in Winipeg Manitoba -- and to get rid of these busses which have already been running just befgore COVID, as they would normally have a 20 year lifespan, it would be self defeating to close the system for a 100% battery-electric system. I am doing my part to encourage the SFMTA to keep the current trolleybus system in addition of having all the diesel buses replaced with battery-electrics. One disavantage of battery-electrics is in the remote event forgetting to recharge them that they would sit idle until being towed in the depot or charged supplemental from an exterior source. Remember trolleybuses do nt require charging for the main propulsion system. Wher I am from Switzerland has a large trolleybus network and I would like to see their intercity Postauto (the yellow buses with red trim) to be in part trolleybus as well as battery-electric, the best of both worlds. Geneva has trolleynuses I have ridden all their TC lines, and also developing fast charge e-buses from a small pantograph-like system that would tage only 15 seconds at limited bus stops, which together with the TC (trolley coaches) would still be extant be a great advantage for Geneva. There sre still places which are building a trolleybus infrastructure even today alongside e-buses. (also I personally like te geometric 'artt' of the trolleybus overhead wires, I would miss that with strictly e-buses)! This is my view.

Down south in seattle our trolley buses are nice. Not a huge network but what trolley buses do run run well

I am honestly indifferent to the idea of trolley buses, since it doesn't make sense to me that there's these wires up along the streets but the vehicles that use them don't run on rails. In other words, I think trams should be put in instead of a lowly bus. However, I do like the idea of electric buses running on battery power. Here in New Zealand, we used to have trams in quite a few big cities and regional centres, though I only saw trolley buses in the capital city; Wellington. As it stands now, the cities of Auckland and Tauranga do have battery-electric buses in small quantities.

Boston's Silver Line uses dual-mode trolley/diesel buses. The transition between the two modes is clunky and a pain, especially when you're trying to get to Logan Airport and you're running late...

Arnhem has the biggest trolleybus netwerk in western Europe

It's a shame Toronto didn't preserve its Trolleybus system in the 90s. The costs really were too much for the TTC to upkeep. What's even sadder is how Edmonton went from having one of the biggest systems to not having one at all. However, the move towards battery electric busses is looking like a viable alternative. I think most systems around the world that are big enough to afford the expensive upkeep, will stay as they are because of their prevalence (for example in Europe). However, I think systems here in North America might eventually disappear as transit agencies move towards alternatives. As you said, they aren't that common and falling out of favor.

Is there a reason why those double pantographs aren't being used by trolleybuses now?

In Zürich, Switzerland, there are three Trolleybus-Lines, that operate a part with no wire and use the in-motion-chargeing. (33&72 Hardplatz-Albisriederplatz, 83Hardplatz-Bahnhof Altstetten). When the trolleys rewire automaticly at a normal station, the stop only takes like 10 seconds more than a normal stop. I used the route very often during a practica in 2019

Battery busses best.when i was a kid we had trollies mist towns and cities non now last few went early 70 if i remember. All the problems you thought of i think

I will say. The trolley buses in my area were built on former streetcar lines and the buses being the non bendy kind plus getting a wider range from the prior trolley clearances made it operate more efficient and easier (even swerve more) than the modern buses. The system ended in 1959 only due to electricity price skyrocketing and the buses being from 1938

Electric forklifts I believe some use interchangeable batteries so you can switch a depleted one for a charged one. It would see to be relatively easy to design such a system for busses allowing a petered out bus to pull in, have it's battery replaced and then go on with its day like a new man. Hey, might also work for trucks and even cars.

You are wrong about the Cobalt. To make lithium batteries is an environmental disaster.

Super curious- does airline transit have the maintenance-skill-building issue that trolleybusses have? I know that you generally have to be certified to maintain specific aircraft, so I imagine so.

Thank you for mentioning battery switching tech. Fast charging a bus is such a dumb idea XD

You've certainly not covered the topic without a bias :). So let me react with my own biased comment. I would guess trolleybus and electric bus maintenance is very similar so would not consider this a trolleybus disadvantage. Also, trolleybus overhead network maintenance is no different to tram network maintenance, except cheaper (not having to deal with rails). Batteries are terrible for operation on hills going upwards, make the vehicle heavier increasing the energy consumption and are also costly and less durable than overhead wires. Not to mention there is a need to charge them and without adequate dynamic/in-motion charging (at least 50% of the route length covered by wires) you have to purchase more buses than you actually need for the route as some need to stand still and charge while others are in operation. And finally trolley poles are more than fine in a city. They allow certain amount of flexibility to switch lanes/overpass an obstacle. With some smaller lighter batteries can even run a for a few kilometers away from wires to avoid blocked/closed roads or to extend the network a bit into areas where overhead wires would not be cost-effective (e.g. only a few buses a day go there). Connecting these poles to wires can be done while standing still at a bus stop without any additional waiting times. And I don't think a speed limit is any issue in a city either. Not to mention I've experienced quite a few fast trolleybus rides myself, especially on intercity routes. Regular pantograph technology is great for trains with only one polarity + ground (rails), but it is much more complicated for tucks/buses. I guess it will work just fine on highways which they already build in Germany, but much less in a city with narrow and often tightly curved roads. There is just no advantage of that technology especially when you can't run more or less under these wires most of the time (which is almost a certainty in a city traffic) - and the less you use the wires the less efficient the whole system gets. Ps. not sure how often de-wiring happens in Vancouver, but it certainly is not an everyday occurrence in the cities/towns of the Czech Republic where I am from. But then it also depends on the components used for the wired infrastructure. On top of that if you need a trolleybus switch that can be passed through with higher speeds these are also available ;).

Boston just signed away the elimination of our trolleybus system. I think us, the people of Boston, had a strong holdout attempt for it to be overturned.

What's the difference between e highway systems and trolley wires? I always assumed they were the same

Trams have the same maintenance problem if not worse because of the additional cost of maintaining the rail.

I disagree in so many ways. How are battery buses more reslient? You mentioned the ethical standpoint of batteries, but what about the environmental impact of the production of those batteries? Especially in combination with batteries, trolleybuses make sense. You for example can install wires on the main trunk route, and when the bus line leaves that trunk route it disconnects and continues as a battery bus. The big benefit is, that the overhead wires are only placed in areas where the high frequency justifies the investment. The branches with lower frequencies don’t necessarily need wires. The battery-trolleybus will regularly pass through that trunk route and can recharge on every single trip, therefore the battery does not need to be that huge, reducing weight, as well as cheaper and more resilient production of the battery. And this would also remove the currently still existing issue of limited range of battery buses, especially in cold or hilly conditions. Trolleybuses equipped with little emergency batteries also remove the issue of accidentally disconnect from the wires. If that happens, the trolleybus can continue disconnected to the next bus stop or maybe even until the terminus, where it has enough time for the driver to connect it again. The trolleybus will not block the intersection. As I mentioned topography: In hilly towns, diesel buses are especially inefficient, and therefore trolleybuses (or electric buses in general) make more sense. Hence why especially cities in Switzerland, as well as San Francisco, do have trolleybus networks. That is why Prague, Czech Republic is currently re-introducing trolleybuses on hilly lines, with only segments (usually the steep part) of each line being with overhead wires. Marburg in Germany also wants to re-introduce trolleybuses. Edit - I forgot the maintenance part: mechanics and drivers also have to specifically trained for battery buses as well, maybe even for different bus types. So a very similar situation with trolleybuses, tbh. Edit 2: another benefit can be the capacity. Some cities, like for example in Zurich, Geneva, Sankt Gallen, Linz, and in the future Prague, use bi-articulated trolleybuses. Bi-articulated diesel buses failed in Hamburg due to bad efficiency, which would not be the case with an electric motor. But batteries are often to weak to power such a heavy bus for an entire day. So they have a similar capacity to trams even, but less infrastructure needed.

What would be cool for in-motion charging is if we could develop a high powered wireless power transfer protocol. Then there could be electric corridors down the high traffic main roads that any BEV, not just buses, with a compatible receiver could pick up a charge.

Trolleys are excellent for hilly places with steep acents. Back in the days, when diesel engines were not powerful enough, there were places in my country, where trolleys were the only public transport solution in cities, where slopes were too steep and curves were too tight. De-wiring does happen, but I myself witness it about once every two months in my city of Pilsen, which has a very heavy trolley operation.

Now does it make sense to replace bus routes with dedicated tram lines even if there is no need for tram's higher throughput capacity, because trams are more comfortable, efficient and environmentally friendly? In Europe you can buy small single-unit trams not larger than busses, so you don't need to transport air on a less busy line

I think the Mexico City Trolleybus system has nine active lines and some of those can be quite long. They potentially could have 220 km of lenght if they rehabilitate unused infrastructure ( more than just right of way). The system is going through a massive overhaul which entail the purchase of over 500 new Yutong units. They are beting hard on this mode of transportation and the current city government is commited to a trolley reinasance in the city. They are even building a new extensive segregated elevated viaduct to be able to attain much higher speeds, frecuencies and as a result capacity. This route had a Metro line planned at some point. It sounds very promising.

What infuriates me is that battery buses aren’t even a zero emissions method of getting around. Getting lithium is often acquired with fossil fuel emitting mines, which by itself would be a problem, but combined with the fact that there are limited

Ah, you’ve hit my soft spot, Reece. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on trolleys. For the record, I wrote to my MP about trolleys in Laval. My case for trolleys was forwarded to the Laval transit authority, STL, for consideration. Not surprisingly, trolleys aren’t in the STL cards (it was hard to hide my disappointment at this announcement). However, it is looking into more electric buses down the road. Is it safe to say that trolleys are becoming a dying breed in North America? Not sure. I hope trolleys don’t leave Vancouver, Seattle, San Francisco, Dayton, and Boston anytime soon. (-:

Can’t remember where I watched this video but the person said Eastern Europe loves trolley bus bc it had something to do with the Cold War that resources were limit

Hi Reece. They just spent I don't know how much to build trolley lines to bypass brosdway for quite a distance so they can build the broadway skytrain here in Vancouver. I'm wondering if buying some buses...diesel, battery...might not have been the better choice?

In another video he said he was from Vancouver but I’m guessing from the Toronto Raptors hoodie he is wearing that he might be living in Toronto now

Trackless trolleys can't be beat when it comes to climbing steep hills. Trackless trolleys with batteries that permit them to be dispatched for use beyond the wires, on non-electrified routes, or during power failures are being used in Dayton, OH and some European cities. Also, see some RU-vid videos of trolley buses in Zurich, where the specialwork doesn't really slow trackless trolleys down much--and is dewirement-resistant. Most of the maintenance of the overhead system is at switches, frogs, and specialwork; straight wire stays up for years, which has been demonstrated by the wires on San Francisco's 33-Ashbury line, where the (ungrooved) wires 18th Street between Mission and Castro Streets has been up since the 1930's, though it may have just been replaced. Toronto was stupid to shut down its trackless trolley system because Ontario's electric power mix is mostly hydro & nuclear. Same for Wellington, NZ. Many other cities are retaining or expanding their trackless trolley systems.

How in Toronto CCT Street Cars on Rails RUN without Trolley Wires ????

An interesting video. Yes I like trolleybuses but as your points are,worth pondering. Born in the UK in the 50s i remember trolleybuses well, my city London was the biggest network in the world but was pulled down between 1959 and 8th May 1962. Ten years later in 1972 the last system which also was the first system was gone, ie Bradford. Here is a few of my thoughts and questions Why did all the systems go?, Was it a case of just popular opinion and follow the leader and why did the rest of Europe not follow suit. I now live in Sydney, a city that did have a few,trolleybus routes till 1959 and trams till 1961. Let's fast forward to the 21sr century. Now Sydney along with other Australian cities plus American and British cities as caught the light rail craze, which is simply a team and I don't know why. Trams require rails as well as some form of power system so is very expensive Here in Sydney the trams use a 750DC overhead and also the Alstom aps,third e Rail system. Volvo now have electric buses in Melbourne although not in regular service, they are also planning to drop internal combustion engines. The idea of green renewable energy is great, non reliance on imported fuel is good and not poluting the air we breathe is a great thing but can we produce base load power, is wind and solar going to provide certainty and security of supply. Imagine if all transport including truck bus private car he train were all electric, where would we obtain the energy from??? Nuclear power is extremely efficient and pollution but not with out risk. I probably think that a hybrid system is battery trolleybuses are a good option as it can as you say charge the batteries on the move. I was recently in Vancouver and loved the city and the trolleybuses but also visited San Francisco and travelled on them. They certainly are very good on the hilly terrain of the city.

First argument is that there aren't many cities using them. Flawed.

Hey what info do you know about back up options for a battery bus fleet when power to the chargers is out

If you build a trolley bus wire you essencially plan a bus route for years to come. Battery bus routes can easily be moved and there is no hussle when a diversion is in place.

Trolleys are a better investment than regular buses, They last a lot longer. General Motors was convicted in court for getting rid of trolleys.

Thise working in a combined system would be a question.

Well a thing that is absolutely worse than building a new trolleybus network is dismantling your perfectly fine trolleybus network because you think the wires ruin the view and look outdated #moscow

electric batteries require rare minerals that are costly in co2 to make

This may be a little late for a comment you’ll see but today (Dec. 3) a columnist in La Presse went nuts about wires for the REM. Could you do a video about that issue? I’m totally fine with wires. It’s total nimbyism. Trolleys are nostalgia. Definitely keep them where they exist! (Vancouver, Lyon). But batteries will likely replace the need for direct/constant electrical connection.

Bruh ur videos are so good. Keep it up mate!

I think that there should be a new trolleybus route from the Marpole Area or stop onward past Fraser Street and across the Knight Street Bridge to the New Kingswood neiborhood community, or further to Queensborough down Westminster Hiway or another least expensive way by adding a causeway fit for future quadrarail and eventually bringing MegLev through Surrey either way from either Kitsilano/Spanish Banks on the edge of Fairview or Point Greg Nieborhood down the Arbutus Corridor, bringing also existing SkyTrain With it, and connecting it to a SeaBus to the WestEnd and or Stanley Park and Park Royal on the North Shore, also By the SeaBus bring Ferry Service to Bowen Island and Elsewhere from Kitsilano/Spanish Banks hub and Construct New Titanic size Cruise ship's which is a major factor, as Vancouver has fallen behind from tiny ship euphoria and second class syndrome as of late when YaleTown was majorly constructed. Virtually stopping the MegLev at King Edward Sea Island Center Lansdowne and onward to the Knight Street Bridge Crossing with Trolleybus's entering LuLu island and the City of Richmond, a factor to this would be a turnpike around Annacis Island in Delta and Cross from New Westminster's Queensborough nieborhood and continue into the Whaley Flats or BridgeView area, bringing a tonne of Lanes and train's for expansion namely the Huindai and SkyTrain from Surrey side, future light rails or other from within the UK & USA to also bring investments from the Far East and South Asian communities with the MegLev heading toward The US and Chilliwack and Hope and onward past the Fraser Valley, Surrey Central connecting various roadway's to existing six lanes at Gateway station and there is room to improve on 104ave and 105A Blvd as well, without Welshing a hundred percent and having one Invision merely from a model trance I've been pondering, any considerations would be in the high million's and this should tycoon what was transit on the South Coast or MetroVancouver or Greater Surrey with the Green Signs what have you....

Sadly (for a fan) I believe Boston has just run it's last Trolley Bus ?. The advantage of a Trolley bus over a battery is power to weight, batteries are heavy and the ability to recycle them is in it's infancy. On a second front, it's easier to maintain overhead wires than it is tracks in the road. All this is open for discussion and I am easily moved one way or the other.

Edmonton removed all of its trolley buses from service in 2009.

Septa trolley buses can dewire or rewire pretty quickly. Although yes the driver has to get out, but doesn't take all too long. Never saw a purpose in them other than reducing emissions and perhaps avoiding the mining and disbposal of batteries. Hydrogen fuel cells are the way to go tho

Many times had I had a pleasure of Trolley I’m riding losing contact and getting stranded. It’s about 5 minute delay, depending on drivers skill. Happens more around roundabouts. That being said other trolleys could pass, as all they needed to do was remove the wires. Anyway, I think alot of Trolleys could be replaced with trams.

One thing you didn't consider for trolleybus using the "e-highway" pantograph system is that you are no longer able to switch lanes which still be connected to the overhead wire. Adjusting the pantograph to always stay centered on one lane is doable but over many lanes not so much. Also the pantograph system could become troublesome when the bus want to turn left at an intersection, or entering a bus bay, and many more scenarios. If you want to enter the left run lane and stay connected to the overhead wire the bus would be very limited where to switch to the correct lane. For right Tuns it not as troublesome but still difficult. Of course you could just switch to battery while doing turns or entering a bus bay but constantly connecting and disconnecting this kinda makes the whole idea of a trolley-bus obsolete. Than charging at the terminal is probably cheaper to build and maintain. I personally think the classic trolley pole is the way to go for trolley busses, you get the benefits of a streetcar and the bus. Also the technology is already well developed for over a century, not like battery-busses, which are still more in a testing phase. If we want to quickly electrify our bus network, trolleybus are more expensive because of the infrastructure but, we get low carbon transportation imitately.

You didn't convince me on this one. Production of batteries produces emissions and buses require big batteries. This means they are less environmentally friendly from the get-go, and also weigh more, which means higher cost in road maintenance. Infrastructure point doesn't work, because every good public transportation system requires infrastructure. And it is more economical and environmentally conscious to invest in trolly infrastructure than in batteries for e-buses.

The cost of buying a trolley bus is far greater than a diesel bus. Overall, trolley buses cost about the same in the long run as a diesel buses

Batteries have their problems especially lithium, how about the charging infrastructure you must have to consider plus waiting for the charging cycle to complete which is several hours.

I can tell you one of the reasons that Edmonton did away with the electric trolley buses. Is that there was a lot of times especially in wintertime. The lines would have snow buildup. And when it melts. It would ice up the lines. Causing the buses to arc with the lines. I have been there and seen it too.

The trolley busses have one major downfall. Lack of flexibility. In well established areas with well established permanent routes they are a great use of public transit. And now on to my pet peeve with bus systems in general. The lack (from my experience) of main lines that pretty much run along a main route and feeder lines that connect to the main route.

Mother Russia has joined the chat

why exactly are old looking trains bad? I mean I understand not wanting to use a 30s era streetcar but what's wrong with some corrugated stainless steel?

Why don’t we combine the three in one? A trolley bus, with batteries and hydrogen cells? Normally, a trolley bus would be driven on wires, but if it has to go into a small vicinity, it would rely on batteries, with an emergency charging by hydrogen fuel cells. The rewiring would be done automatically, through an AI-assisted device. It’s called redundancy and “driving” by fly-by-wires, two very common technologies used in aviation’s industries. The problems aren’t so hard to overcome technically at all, except for the lobbyists’ corruption and for the lack of political will. For that reason and others I consider the Chinese and the Swiss political systems the best ones. Anyway, a trolley bus is far better than a jammed traffic system of cars.

Lol why is this guy trolling trolleys,…😅🤔🤗,..lol jst kidding pretty useful info ☺️👌

If you're going to have overhead wires just do streetcars or trams instead. Less shredded rubber polluting the roads, less inefficiency still due to rails, less risk however theoretical of a driver snapping the wires by driving too far away from them.

to be honest, hydrogen busses make A LOT of sense. Sure, hydrogen is not as effective as batteries, however, one of the reasons why hydrogen cars are not popular is the lacking network of hydrogen fuel stations. This is a valid problem for private cars, but not so much for a bus network which operates within the same city - so the whole network would only need one hydrogen station in the bus garage, thats it. Add this to the lacking battery and hydrogen bus systems may actually make a lot of sense.

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@Adam Something would like to have a word with you

This is a very North American centric POV.