Special shout out to my members David Huber and Swifto_Scythe. They have had early access to this video, and will get early access to next week’s video in a few days
The judge appears in one episode. It's a shame they made Two-Face never spotlight in Justice League and just a cameo and a small cameo by Bruce Timm in Fatal Five.
Well, there was that Bat-embargo going on because of The Batman cartoon and the Dark Knight Trilogy. Apparently the higher ups thought the audience didn’t have enough brain cells to think that alternate iterations of characters could coexist at the same time. Then again, this was long before the great multiverse milking.
At least in Fatal Five, they confirmed Two-Face will be straightened up and has been turning over a new leaf himself. So he may go back to a normal Harvey again. As for him running for mayor again? That will be harder 😅
What I like about the Judge is that if the two sides of Two-Face are different sides of the same coin, then the Judge can be considered the coin itself. He's the mix of Good and Bad Harvey, combining Good Harvey's desire for justice with Bad Harvey's violence and brutality. In fact, it is very possible that if Harvey hadn't pushed all of his anger, frustration, and negativity into "Big Bad Harvey", then Harvey Dent would have ended up becoming something similar to the Judge. In a way, it is possible that the final "Guilty" scene is the Two-Face persona giving in to the Judge persona, which is why when we next see him in the animated series, Two-Face is genuinely trying to become a better person. He's still clearly struggling with his anger, but he's also making genuine effort towards self-improvement.
my headcanon is that Harvey lost his two-headed coin (which isn't the first time in the series, but it strangely always ends up returning), so after a crisis he ends up creating a new personality just to suppress the lack of it.
I really like how the Judge was presented as separate entity. He was so opposite that when tried kill Harvey Dent/Two face we only get hint who actually was... Since only Harry Dent/Two face would know about emergency escape route in his Apartment.
Two Face suffers from a problem most villians have: no matter how complex or sympathetic their motives are, you have to constantly work to keep them from just becoming another bank robber with a theme. Two-Face is the most interesting as a pseudo-vigilante trying to dismantle the organized crime that scarred him and that he couldn’t stop as DA. But most times he’s just another organized criminal with a number schtick. It’s most clear when they have villain team ups and he’s with actual mass murderers like the Joker, and the penguin who actively works with Rupert Thawn, the reason he is Two-Face.
I don't care for Nolan's take on Batman overall, but making Two-Face a Punisher-esque anti-villain who exclusively targets criminals was an inspired idea.
I love Judgement Day. It was a fantastic episode, with a strong noir theme and a compelling mystery. The reveal that Harvey was the Judge took me by surprise. And the final scene at Arkham was chilling. I could not believe that was the final episode of the series. It was very depressing. Gotham Adventures 12 was a good sequel to judgement day, as it shows how fractured Harvey's mind has become. The scene were Harvey talks to Batman while in a fiddle position was sad. No matter what he does, Harvey will still be haunted by his demons. If they made an audio story version of Gotham Adventures 12, I bet they would have gotten Richard Moll back to reprise his role as Two-Face, and he would have killed it.
Why do I feel The Judge, Lock-up and Rumor would be a good group together. Vigilantes going way to far to bring Gotham villains their brand of "Justice".
@@michaelandreipalon359 Sorry for the late reply. I think he be a good edition to the comics. Rumor has potential to be in someone’s rogue’s gallery. Though he would have to be more than a rumour… I’ll get my coat.
The Judge bothers me, because I think Two-Face always works better as a vigilante rather than him using giant comedy crime props or basically acting like a gangster. The Judge is what Two-Face SHOULD be in my eyes. I can suspend my disbelief for a lot of things, but the hardest thing for me to accept that is a former DA could ever slot himself into the criminal underworld or that anyone would ever work for the guy. A lot of Two-Face's origin stories go in this direction - and then other writers come in and he's pulling zany schemes like he's The Joker or something. Loeb/Sale's vision for the character pitches him more as a brutal, humorless zealot, and it's always coloured my perception of what a good Two-Face should be like.
Dude if you worry about things being bloody "realistic " in a comic about a man who dress as a flying rodent to punch people, you ate not going to enjoy superhero comics in general! Harvey is a ex da so his knowledge of the law makes him a dangerous foe in the underworld.
I don't think their argument is realism, more consistency in characterization, that, a DA, even a criminally insane one, wouldn't just suddenly become a straight-up mobster, or that the people he persecuted when he was (relatively more) sane would ever trust him enough to work under him. Two-Face is the result of Harvey's perception of injustices against him, so it's bizarre for him to become a villain who lacks that sense of justice.@@zemox2534
@@thesuckysix4242 THANK YOU! It's not about 'realism' whatsoever. But that I just cannot believe that the criminal element would work for a DA. I think Harv would have folks working for him, people who genuinely believed in his politics for instance. But him acting like Al Capone? Being friends with other criminals? Playing cards with The Joker? I'm sorry, but no. No, it just doesn't work. And I hate how for every great interpretation of Two-Face, you've got to wade through a sea of garbage where he's trying to steal diamonds or running a protection racket or God knows what else.
@@louthegiantcookieYou can't accept an ex da turning into a crime lord, but you can accept a traumatised man dressing up as a bat and fighting criminals who look like clowns, wear question marks on their cloths and giant clay monsters? You might as well not read or watch any Two-Face story for the rest of your life.
Having finally started reading the tie in comics, it’s great to see more stories delving into Harvey’s psychological issues and even retroactively adding back in the stronger abusive father backstory. But it does kind of suck that we didn’t get more of this in the show itself. I feel like Harvey only had a handful of episodes post his origin that just didn’t have him default to a regular mobster/supervillain with a gimmick.
The Judge could honestly work well as a ultimate climax for a long Harvey character arc. The two sides united and him whole again, but his mind and view on the world jaded from everything that happened to him.
Honestly, the best way to experience this villain, is to actually see Judgement Day for yourself. The imposing voice, the cinematography, the musical score and the mix of brutal strikes and spectre like movement all give the Judge a presence that makes you wish he had more than just this episode.
I think Two Face works best if he was a Anti-Hero character. A person who controls and organize crime in order to reduce the damage they deal to Gotham itself. Imagine he worked like a Yakuza boss. Making so that all of his subordinates are always in line. They don't brazenly attack anyone, just specific targets "in the game"
The Gray Ghost! I'm so glad they let Adam West play the character straight while still paying homage to the silly series that helped revitalize Batman. It would have been easy to play that character for pure laughs but instead we got a dramatic performance with weight and relatability. Also, I named my cat after him. 'The Gray Ghost Himself, Simon Trent' or Simon for short. He was originally named Megatron, but my family pestered me about it to no end 😅
It should be noted that people suffering from Dissociative Identity Disorder experience their dissociative states to protect themselves and as an stress-coping mechanism. It is commonly accepted that DDI suffers do experience new dissociations because effectively their brains have “learned” dissociation is an effective coping strategy. Harvey Dent fractures when he needs to do something he’s not mentally capable of, because creating a new person inside himself is easier than forcing himself to do it.
That’s a common misconception. Batman Adventures 22 elaborates further on how the disfigurement shattered Harvey Dent’s mind and left a new personality, Two-Face, who was neither Harvey or Big Bad Harv.
Maybe two face can be cloned and collectively, they can be called "The Jury" - that way Harvey gets to preside over all aspects of the judicial system.
3:55 I suppose by technicality, The Judge could be considered the 4th Alter…but I counterpoint that with the fact that Two-Face is the result of Big Bad Harv and Harvey’s collective psyches fusing together. They both have the same voice, the same personalities, the same propensity for violent outbursts, the same mean streak etc. Moon Knight is a good example of what I mean here. He’s a guy with 3 Alters: Mark Specter, Stephen Grant and Jake Lockley. Each have their own unique strengths, weaknesses and similarities to one another. But when all 3 are combined, they give birth to a 4th Alter: Moon Knight.
It sort of reminds me of Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader; where while Darth Vader is shown to be the dominant personality, Anakin is still in there, trying to fight to regain control despite Vader saying that he "killed" him.
The Judge was such an amazing and interesting character as the idea of Harvey Dent creating a 3rd persona to fight crime was a unique especially as he already had a Jekyll Vs Hyde spilt personality going on anyway, it was definitely something the show should have explored more if TNBA continued because it truly showed how far into the dark side gone Batman's friend had truly gone
IMO Judgement Day was the only time TNBA Two Face felt like BTAS Two Face. They took a lot of his depth from BTAS away like his friendship with Bruce, Harvey's struggle with his other personality, him sometimes being more vigilante than villain and so on and made TNBA Harvey just a gangster.
I think the judge has a really cool concept and design. They definitely deserve to come back. Maybe red hood style where it's someone completely new in the costume. Maybe mix in a bit of the old lore where the judge is. A character that perceives Batman as letting someone close to them die because of his no kill rule
(I thought it was cancelled before it even began) but I would’ve liked to see their take on the eraser. Cause a villain meant for getting rid of evidence is a really great concept
Honestly JL vs the Fatal Five and Death in the Family where mt favorite bit appearances of Two Faces. Showing a very different side to him than we usually see. From him giving Red Robin Jason a scathing speech about how he basically spat on Batman's legacy to him standing up for and making a small friendship with Starboy.
Imagine a What If story where BTAS Batman actually offers Two-Face to be one of his allies. Think Suicide Squad but no neck bombs. I feel like that would definitely be an interesting idea.
Man this split personality thing is really complicated because it says that you get it from trauma but here is that Harvey was holding on to anger so long because of a misunderstanding but I do wonder where and how he got the judge costume from and how did he get up the bridge so fast and seemed to very good at taking down someone twice his size that being Croc because he was a wrestler and Batman trained his life to master his sense and where did he trained in Law School? I guess you have seen Gotham tv series where someone did the same thing in final scene? Which episode are going to use on Christmas, Christmas with the Joker or Holiday Knights? I thought an idea for that Harvey Dent would be split out of both Two Face and the Judge by some new friends from high places (taking inspiration from the 90’s Hulk cartoon where Banner and Hulk are separated from each other) and where Two Face is a blue Hulk like monster in a justice league episode
Dcau Harvey had military background training as he was in the air force which could explain him knowing how to scrap and how to use guns. Maybe he used those magnets he has to help climb his way up. Harvey probably bought the suit online as it's just a robe and wig so all he needed to do was glue the wig on a black mask and he's done.
I think if the judge doesn’t know he’s also two face, then he does know, he just doesn’t care. Almost like a robot, if they’re guilty, they deserve his wrath no matter how they are
I think the Judge knew he and two face shared the same body, he wanted to punish both Two Face and himself because even though everything he had done was for Justice, he couldn’t get over the fact that he had gone outside the law to do so, and he wouldn’t allow anyone, even himself, to get away with such an act.
Great video, as always. I've finally watched everything and caught up! I disagree about Two-Face being 3 personalities before The Judge. I always thought Big Bad Harv WAS Two-Face. Big Bad Harv simply took over after the accident.
You’re not alone that assessment, however in Batman Adventures 22 a psychologist states that Harvey’s mind was shattered when he saw his disfigured face for the first time, and it resulted in a new personality being formed that was neither Harvey Dent or Big Bad Harv. Note that Two-Face’s voice is slightly different to Big Bad Harv’s - it’s a subtle difference, but once heard I find it hard to ignore
I'd heard that, but before I had interpreted Two-Face as a sort of compromise between the two. That the coin was to decide which man got his way in the moment. But this is why Two-Face is such a great character - the tiniest detail in his identity can have tremendous implications. With even just a little thought, a fascinating character begins writing itself for you. Two faces; endless possibilities.
I have to say, it's almost a staple of the series to have tragic villains: Mr. Freeze, Two-Face, Ace, a case could be made to say that Catwoman is a tragic villain, she and batman are so into each other but they can never be together because of her kleptomania, sorta like an alternative version of Romeo & Juliet.
In the Batman comics, the character of the Judge has potential to become a standalone character if separated from Two-Face. This idea is similar to the Teen Titans cartoon episode where Red X returns and it's revealed that someone stole Robin's Red X suit and became the new Red X. The Judge could similarly be portrayed as someone who takes on the persona of the Judge after Two-Face's demise.
I’m a new subscriber and I’ve been watching a bunch of your videos these past few days. They’re very well done. Something interesting I never thought about before seeing this video, but I’m guessing the J Carrol Corcoran character is a nod to actor J Carrol Naish, who played Dr. Daka in the 1940s Batman serial. That performance and series has its issues by today’s standards for sure, but the names are too similar for it to be a coincidence. Anyway, love your videos. It’s been great revisiting some of the BTAS stuff I used to love as a kid.
The weird thing about the Judge is how he's a combat beast who can easily batter Killer Croc when regular Two Face is competent but not particularly exceptional as a fighter.
This may not seem relevant to this video specifically, but I kinda wish DC made stories set exclusively in Earth-3, with the Crime Syndicate and their Justice League. I imagine Owlman's version of Two-Face would have originally been a corrupt defense attorney until he ended up getting attacked and horribly scarred by someone seeking justice for the murder of a relative or close friend, who's killer Earth-3 Harvey helped get off death row on a technicality. His scar leaves him not only mentally wounded, but he ends up getting disbarred and his own family abandons him for no longer meeting the standards of excellence and perfection he once did. Betrayed, abandoned, forsaken, and shown the true error of his corrupt ways, Earth-3 Harvey's mind shatters and all that's left is the urge to bring justice to the lawless world. He becomes the very symbol of the law itself. His lair, the Courtroom. His sidekicks, the Jury. His weapon, the Gavel. He becomes *The Judge.*
Im not sure why, but when i think of the Judge personality of Two-Face in BTAS i cant help but think of Azrael, the Sword, the violent vigilante, the choir as he appears, the looming presence. Maybe thats why i enjoyed the episode a lot, i Really like Azrael (when he Is His own thing rather than edgy Batman), but i Understand why a lot of people dont like him. Maybe the Judge is something of an BTAS Azrael, in your Bane video It seems the creators werent that interésted in Bane as "the Man who broke Batman" so i Guess "The Catholic Zealot that usurped Batman" would be even less interesting in their eyes. I may be reaching, but perhaps the Judge its their Azrael, a crazed vigilante willing to kill villians for the sake of a Greater porpouse, in this case being justice instead of God and religión.
There is an argument to be made with Twoface being in Archam during the fatal 5 movie. I mean, he is still there, meaning he has at least stopped using the revolving door. He also showed signs of trying to correct his actions, and he took Starboy under his wing. I think this shows he is getting better, probably good therapy. As to why he seems to have been there so long, he did do alot of major crimes, he has to have many many years he has to serve. But, again, it looks like he is taking advantage of the help he needs, so the time can only aid in his recovery. I wish real prisons could figure that out.
I'd love to see a comic where Two-Face rehabilitates by still having a Coin to flip But it's blank on both sides. So it's like a cigarette patch for him allow himself to flip a coin, but with no result.
The Judge is interesting in the sense that he, essentially, breaks the "duality" of Two-Face. We'd say it's a shame we never really got to see the original Harvey Dent attempt to interact with either of them, because that duality element is something that's extremely prevalent in the "one alter side vs other alter side" in plural characters. The Judge does throw a wrench into it, but we're also not allowed to see the three person dynamic come into play. It sorta more swaps out one for the other in the duality aspect? If you were a kid watching this as your first BTAS episode, you'd just assume it was Two-Face and The Judge. It's a funny thing, actually, cause we've found one of the easier ways to avoid a lot of the pitfalls of system depictions in media is the three alter system. Sort of inspired by the Ace Attorney entity Uendo Toneido, a rakugo artist playing traditional 3 character stories. Perhaps because it becomes a "oh they have to learn to share" versus "only one can come out on top" type of story...? Regardless, we think The Judge is an interesting *start* of a character, but it looks like they were somewhat uninterested in exploring him as an entity. For it to be the last episode of the series, is... well, you can probably already guess how we feel it's emblematic of the DCAU's tendency to treat plurality as shock value and not much more. (A couple days ago we found out Lex Luthor started hallucinating talking to Braniac in later Justice League seasons, and most characters look at him like he's crazy. Weeren't the biggest fan ;^^ ) So as a final note, I'd say we actually do like The Judge. He represents what we think Two-Face really should be as a vigilante, and doesn't even need the coin gimmick. (Tbh. Sometimes we wonder if the luck element of two-face is oftentimes conflicting with the alter element). It's just the greater narrative surrounding this character that brings him down a notch. (Seriously, we watched the justice league movie and they say he's in there cause he "thinks he's two people" and not their anger issues, eeurgh...) Also, eeugh, the amount Harvey Dent gets whitewashed in the comics... Hard to swallow that's the same character sometimes.
I always appreciate your insights into plurality, so thanks for sharing. Yes, I too dislike the whitewashing of Two-Face. He’s very clearly African American, or at the very least biracial, in BTAS.
@@SerumLakeI never recall seeing Two-Face depicted as African American in the mainline comics and in terms of BTAS, I have genuinely never gotten the impression in my entire life that Harvey was supposed to be depicted as African American, not that I'd have a problem if he were. I sometimes thought he may be part Hispanic but generally I always got the impression that he was Caucasian. Whitewashing Two-Face is something I genuinely never heard before recently. Again, I'm Greek and I see people with tan skin on a daily basis and so to me it never seemed like anything different. People seem to have gotten the same impression about Lex Luthor in Superman TAS but he was based on Telly Savalas who is Greek and naturally looks like that.
@@supremegroden3021 not in BTAS. Remember that at the time Billy Dee Williams played Harvey Dent in Tim Burton’s films, and the BTAS crew were instructed to follow the Burton films as closely as possible.
@@The_Phantasm yes, you’re right that he was always white in the comics, but he was played by Billy Dee Williams in Tim Burton’s Batman. As you know the BTAS crew was instructed to mirror the Burton films as much as possible.
I always figured Two Face was Dent and Big Bad Harv merging together to create one single identity where neither of the former two personalities are ever truly dominate over the other and is always split 50 50 between good and bad, although for plot convivence it always seems to lean more towards bad than good. Another theory I had: I think the Judge personality emerged when the evil half began to take over completely and in order to compensate for this lack of balance, decided to do a hard turn by becoming uncompromising vigilante and I think this is supported by looking at how Two Face changed between BTAS and the New Adventures. In the former while he was still a hardcore criminal there was sometimes a glimmer of good intentions behind his actions like in Two Face part two where he's trying to take down Rupert Thorn, though granted he's most certainly driven in part by revenge for Thorn ruining his life but you can also read it as him wanting to actually fix Gotham by taking out it's number one crime lord. Then Cut to New adventures where he tries to have Tim Drake killed and holds the city for ransom with toxic gas with no other motivation besides money. The difference is stark and It would also would explain why Batman no longer holds anything back when facing his former friend and just treats him like any of his other rogues because he knows he's too far gone by that point.
I just recently found this channel and I'm so glad I subscribed. 😀 I loved your video about The Judge, including the many references to Batman comics with special emphasis on BGA #12.
The fact that they share the same continuity backs up your point of view. Although I would also say that the writing was pretty different in TNBA. They could get away with more horrific things happening (see Growing Pains, Chemistry, Mad Love etc.) but they were also a bit more diverse in terms of tone (see Beware The Creeper, The Demon Within, Critters)
I also consider all 109 episodes to make up one show, but I'll always associate TNBA with Kids'WB! whereas BTAS and TAoB&R will be more closely connected to Fox Kids and Cartoon Network in my mind as a die-hard DCAU fan.
Two-Face being given a rigged coin remind me of Arkham Asylum a serious house on serious Earth where are one of the treatments they give him an Arkham Asylum is very similar
I actually disagree about seeing Harvey in Fatal Five as being sad. In the movie, he is shown to have much better control over his anger and even protects Star Boy from the other inmates. If anything, his appearance in the movie is proof that his treatment is working.
Nice Joker doddles you've shown after talking about the comic book inspirations I don't like the Janus personality I honestly preferred the Judge who is an anti-hero/anti-villain with no face the true third personality having no face makes sense cuz he's the perfect mixture of Harvey Dent and Two-Face/Big Bad Harvey someone who is an anti-hero or anti-villain depending on your perspective someone who uses Two-Face/Big Bad Harvey's violence and brutality to do justice rather than Janus personality who doesn't do anything for justice and commits crime.
This might be an unpopular opinion, but I felt like it was a waste of an amazing character design to have him be another personality of Harvey. It basically ruins the duality of **Two** Face because now it's more than two-- so do we call him three-face? Point being, I would have liked it better if The Judge had been his own distinct person that had his own origin story and motive for going after the bad guys, like instead of the heroes vs villains, The Judge had now created his own side that opposed both of them. Shame, but there's no changing what's already set in stone.
Surprised to see Mighty Ducks: The Animated Series here. Still, Spawn and Gargoyles are more better and nostalgic to me. 1:56: Why are such inconsistent colorings a comic book norm back then? I sure heavily sympathize with the Judge more than Lock-Up when it came to their necessary vigilante efforts; even J.C. Corcoran, despite being the true villain of the episode, had a huge point saying that Batman's life-saving actions on villains feels ultimately too lenient and thus pointless. *Batman Beyond proves that point, since Terry McGinnis occasionally not needing to avoid killing sure lead to better results.* Well, will now await the Gray Ghost vid. Hope Adam West is just hanging out with Kevin Conroy at this point up above.
Even though back in the day I'd never think too hard about an episode of B:TAS/S:TAS/TNBA, these days some episodes have grown off me. Judgement Day telegraphed its end by having Two-Face be the only character not in the same place as the Judge (hard to miss). What doesn't sit with me is milking the MPD that gave Two-Face's origin episode some dramatic weight but comes off hokey here. Dent becoming Two-Face should have resolved his personality split. Why not just have plain' Harvey Dent struggle against "Big Bad Harv"?
Many of these Episode are Capable of being Great, if only we had more Creative Minda behind the Series, and yeah i actually think the Episode Critters could be Good if only we had more Time and Story Ideas. Like a Tokusatsu Movie.
This brings up the question: Is two-faces coin modified to be completely 50-50 thus fair? Or is it a standard coin, that means the chance of heads would be less likely due to the weight distribution.
@SerumLake Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Jason Todd do a similar thing as two face in his long term game in Under the Red Hood; where Jason offers protection to the top 8 but drug dealers to out an out force black mask's hand to work with the joker?
I still feel that they ended BTAS way too soon. I wouldnt oven minded if they took ideas from The Batman Adventures comics and turned them into to episodes, like the one were clayface transforms into a man and goes on a date with the Summer Gleeson or the episode when Robin goes back to his circus crew and needs to solve a robbery. All could of made great btas episodes.
