The truth about bullbars & 4WD safety (you're not going to like it) | Auto Expert John Cadogan 

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John as a paramedic, I can attest that pedal displacement is an issue. I have been to a significant amount of accidents where the pedal displacement causes significant entrapment issues and delayed extraction.

I had to be cut out of a vehicle due to peddle displacement after an old lady fell asleep at the wheel and careered across the road hitting me head on. The crumple zones worked well considering that accident happened 20 odd years ago, and I walked away with just a sore foot. I also witnessed a head on accident between two utes, both hilux's, one with, one without bull bars. The driver in the ute with the bar, had the steering wheel pushed right back into his stomach, and his legs were crushed. I stood there holding his hand, talking to him while waiting for the paramedics to arrive, sadly he died at the scene. The other utes front end was completely obliterated ,but the cabin remained intact. The driver spent the night in hospital and was released the following day. I live in rural Australia, plenty of roos, I'm still not going to put a bulbar on my car though.

John, you gently discouraged me from getting a bull bar when you helped me buy a Triton, and now I can imagine your sigh of exasperation as I went ahead with the idea anyway. Having exchanged the tub for a service body, I am now looking to reduce weight on the vehicle to make room for working payload, and this may be the next item to get dumped in that effort. Thanks again for taking the time to lay it all out. Another excellent video. EDit Watching this for the second time, I am convinced. Yeah, I know, I am slow. The steel bugger is coming off.

Many years ago, in my youth, I had a Hilux with a Bullbar and I was very proud of it. It looked really manly and tough. Until I actually hit a bull at 80km/h. Well a cow, but a very big one. The vehicle still sort of looked ok to me after the accident so I was surprised when it was a write off. I went to the repairer to ask what was going on and he made me crawl under and look at how the chassis rails had buckled and compressed and said that's what he always sees with bullbar impacts. Never fitted a bull bar since then. Always remember the aftermarket industry is not there to help you, they are there to take your money.

Hey John Now as I live in the bush a bullbar is a essential part on my vehicle. Now I have more trees than roos and pigs however I seem to connect with roos and pigs more often. Now after seeing your report I do understand the science of what you are banging on about but I have seen and been involved with numerous altercations with stationary objects....trees a loader a tractor and a bloody poachers ( I tboned him ) vehicle at various speeds including 80 plus kph and i am still here. Impact with a tree at 60kph.....outcome Minor panal damage stuffed bullbar and managed to drive home. Vehicle was a 75 series Land Cruiser. Pretty sure I would have been dead without it. So bhp findings may be true but I will continue to fit bullbars to all my trucks and cars.....they save lives out here. Still like your show and will continue to watch but we have a difference of opinion ( due to real world accidents) on this one.

Totally agree. I had a bullbar on my cabover Kenworth 40 years ago. Ran out of brakes going down a hill owing to a dodgy company trailer, hit a logging truck in front. Survived unscathed because the bullbar spread the load across the 2mm aluminium body panels (Offset frontal impact as I moved right knowing what was about to happen.). Glad for it in the day because safety in trucks was non-existant - IN THE DAY!. We've moved on and made safer vehicles that no longer use hand crank start and 'Armstrong' steering. Thank goodness for progress.

I understand that JC is trying to make people think twice about if they need a Bullbar, but pointing to a 11Yo crash report isn’t really relevant in 2023. There’s been a lot of improvement in both Vehicle Safety Design and also Bullbar design in that period. As many on this forum have pointed out BHP and most Tier 1 that I’ve felt I with install bullbars. However they are more commonly using Plastic and Alloy bars from what I’ve seen, so a question for @AutoExpert, would an Alloy or Plastic bar being more flexible be a compromise to improve Passenger safety over a steel bar and still provide improved protection in the event of an animal strike?

Pumping out the video's the last few days. As a side note, my wife just told me of all the video's I watch, she hates you the most. So well done.

I researched this exact topic when purchasing my most recent ute. That was nearly three years ago and the unsupported information was enough to convince me not to purchase one as an option, due to safety concerns. And by the way, I live in a rural area and roos are a real concern. The clincher for me, however, was the bottom line. A factory roo bar for my vehicle was $3500 dollars. My insurance excess is one fifth of that at $700. That's five road kills before I'd break even. I've hit one kangaroo in 34 years. I'm not worried about losing my no claim bonus if I hit another one or two.

But John. John. Where the hell am I going to mount my 70 000lb winch, 1000W spotties, 50 000 Lumen lightbar, 3-metre CB aerial, and my bloody rod holders?!

While I agree with most of what you say during my 11 years of working at arb building bullbars I saw the introduction of impact absorbers which effectively gave back that negated crumple zone. Each bull bar model had its own specific impact absorber supplied that were also built in house.

As a person who owns and drives three vehicles, one with bullbar and two without with most of my driving done in rural areas I can certainly attest to the benefits of having one as opposed to not having one. I have on several occasions been unfortunate enough to hit several kangaroos with my vehicles despite driving carefully and attentively. I can certainly say that in the vehicles without bullbars they suffered enough damage, approximately $3000 to warrant the fitting of a bullbar to prevent subsequent panel and cooler package damage. I believe that the idea of fitting a bullbar is not to use the vehicles as a battering ram but to give much needed protection to the vulnerable areas such as cooling and steering components. In certain situations especially in remote areas this can be the difference between life and death. Planning your trip and defensive driving should also be a part of your journey management. Vehicle manufacturers should also be building vehicles with better protection in place. If you have a look at most vehicles now they only have a very flimsy plastic grille that will do little if nothing to prevent damage to the cooling system and steering components. So before we start throwing ourselves down and wailing and gnashing our teeth let's think about the bullbars real reason for existing was to lessen the damage to your vehicle in the event of an animal strike instead of leaving you stranded on the side of the road.

I am also a mech engineer with a 4x4. For years I have been trying to convince my friends that bull bars are not a good idea. Most have no understanding of what crumble zone means and how controlled deceleration will affect what happens to you in an accident. Only to experience much derision about that I am crazy. Finally I have some external evidence. Thanks heaps.

I remember covering this in trade school almost 30 years ago. Why spend millions on developing a crumple zone if you're going to put a hard inflexible object on the front of it? After-market products hold a curious fascination to me - mostly because a lot seem to be absolutely useless to a ute or 4WD wagon that will never leave a formed road.

Your comment at the end really sold it for me. If the aftermarket industry had any evidence that fitting their products makes a vehicle safer then it would be up in lights and would be advertised at every opportunity. I have now changed my mind on my plans to have a bull bar fitted to my vehicle and will leave it as it is. Thank you for this information. I find this all very sobering to think about as a traffic controller who has to be very aware of what’s coming at me at any given moment. The majority of vehicles on the road do have Bull bars fitted nowadays and they still don’t seem to understand that your speed is my safety. I also don’t want you ploughing into the digger in the middle of the road and bleeding out because your BB displaced your pedals but yeah I’m just here standing in the sun all day to ruin your day by holding you up for a few mins until it’s safe to let you through the work zone!

There's a couple of points worth contending here John. It is never wise to swerve for an animal on a country road as has been suggested precisely for the reason of stability. I have personally hit a significant number of animals in my driving career, simply due to the large number of k's travelled, but i never swerve. I have up to this point simply braked as hard as the vehicle can and reduced collision speeds to as low as possible. I have fitted one bullbar only to my vehicle in its lifetime and to this point it is intact, as is the vehicle, 14 years later. The damage that has been prevented, including possibly being stranded by a feral boar at 1AM in the morning has been significant enough reason for me to keep it. You make a good point regarding oblique collision with solid immovable objects, fair enough. The crash testing as described is performed at an impact speed of 64 km/hr, lends weight to the argument that reducing speed as much as possible in a straight line is most likely to achieve the best outcome overall. Independently of the myriad of other popular accessories, the bullbar, during braking generally sits below centre of mass and increses the ratio of sprung to unsprung weight on the front suspension, possibly improving the braking result if obviously the dampers are not worn or poorly matched aftermarket items. As a separate issue, I witnessed my younger brother try to make a turn on his pushbike in front of a toyota bus in the early 90's. The tubular bullbar fitted to this bus provided a nicely instinctive grab hold for my brother whilst his pushbike went under the wheels. I believe that all present were stunned but relieved, the significant bruising turned out to be better than other possibilities. Perhaps I could suggest that some drivers do choose to fit a bullbar for ego purposes only and really don't consider their driving technique once the "shield" protects them. I personally always fit a bullbar to my traveling vehicles. So far my experience is positive, I have not been stranded, hoping for help that might never come, especially since phones don't always work. I take onboard the point about pedal box incursions and will add that to my psyche.

As a BHP employee I can confirm that BHP once again fit steel bulbars as standard fitment. ( At least on our particular mine site ) Side note current fleet is latest generation IZUZU D-MAX.

Your point about, for example, ARB not telling you about crash testing they have done or not, so obviously they would have told you if the result was positive is totally true. Roll on dude, keep up the good work!

John, I'm a paramedic in Southern Queensland, have worked in FNQ as well I've attended many accidents where vehicles hitting roos/pigs deploy airbags, causing secondary accidents that are far more serious than the initial impact Hard to hedge against an unknown scenario Certainly for rural Australians who travel high kms, risk of hitting wildlife exceeds risk of ever being involved in a serious accident, hence why most vehicles are equipped with bullbars City driving is a different story, and I believe where your advice comes in

I’m glad you mentioned pedestrians and other road users. Four years ago whilst riding my pushbike through a roundabout a bull bar equiped Toyota Hilux accelerated into me from the left side. It was doing around 40 kph at the point of impact. Net result, despite evasive action on my part I was thrown across the roundabout and seriously injured. My life has been severely impacted by the event and I live with chronic pain. Would the severity have been less had the vehicle not been equipped with a bull bar? I suspect the answer is yes. Of course the vehicle was undamaged by the impact so I guess there’s a gold lining somewhere.

Good evening John, great report, but what you need to add to this video is the Bin camera. Just for light entertainment.

I asked my mate about the crumple zones in his 57 Chev. he said "I use other people's"

Driving from Perth to Sydney many years ago in a fragile Chrysler (Mitsubishi) Galant we found ourselves driving at night in western NSW. Roos crossing every few hundred metres. We had the choice of stopping when we weren't tired or risking a roo strike. If we stopped we would cover no distance. We decided to keep going at 40 km/h, minimising the risk of a strike because we could stop quickly whenever we needed to. That way instead of covering no distance we covered 200 km in 5 hours. Better than nothing and almost as safe as stopping.

Thank you John for this report. I have a 2016 Isuzu D-Max 4x4. No bull bar and no roof racks and yet I still have fun with it off road. No dead weight on the roof (which alters my center of gravity) and no dead weight ahead of the front wheels that alters the driving dynamics of the car. And still I can go to the same places other 4x4 vehicles go that do have these accessories. You have confirmed my decision of not fitting a bull bar to my car was the right decision all along. Many thanks for this report.

Bullar manufacturers going to be very upset. You had better be careful your brakes don't fail.

Thanks John. Well done. I’ve spent my life telling people this and just making myself unpopular and making enemies. People and authorities tragically won’t listen to engineers and scientists enough. The Australian design rules are very comprehensive and difficult to comply with but manufacturers do comply, then you can just buy an fit a bull bar and negate all of that work. It does my head in!

In response to points made at 16:35 Bull Bars are essential in many country regions. You just can't have a vehicle without a Bullbar unless you are willing to repair or replace the front of your vehicle several times a due to damage from hitting Kangaroos! Also, a well designed Bullbar will keep said Kangaroo from either going under the car and possibly cause steering interference and loss of control OR said Kangaroo coming over the bonnet into the windscreen and cabin!. Bullbars are A MUST HAVE in some country areas as they increase occupant safety in these environments. You certainly DON'T need a Bullbar in large Cities. If you really want to do a comprehensive crash text comparison include Kangaroo impacts. AT 20:38 regarding avoiding crashes, you often can't avoid a hitting a Kangaroo by steering around it, that is a great way to lose control, you should simply brake hard.

Understandable breakdown John, but a bit harsh on us non engineering types, when most manufacturers websites currently sell factory or factory approved bullbars, which all the ones I’ve looked at state that they have been tested and form part of their safety systems. Maybe we need some legislation in place to independently verify the manufacturers claims? Also, we are relying on some big players in this market to be honest on their claims, especially in regards to safety

Thanks John , although we do have a lot of scrub animals where we live I’m going to heed what you have just said, might even save $3500 or more which I can spend on comprehensive insurance , so thanks for that mate. I must admit I have often wondered about the tyres, alignments, fuel ,suspension etc. ,the extra cost because of that weight and I must admit the crumple zone on an FG Falcon Ute saved my sons life when he smacked a tree at 110. So I’m going with the insurance this time round on my new Everest when it turns up (if ever) Cheers

I thoroughly enjoy your videos and all of the technical knowledge you impart in an easy to digest manner but this time I thought I needed to point out a few errors that you included in the medical info at around 11:30: 1. A bit pedantic (we all know you love pedantry) but the femoral artery stops above the knee. Other vessels continue down the leg but are far smaller in diameter and consequently have significantly reduced massive haemorrhage risk. 2. Internal haemorrhage sufficient to cause death requires a decent sized volume to be lost into ie. the chest, abdomen, pelvis or thigh not so much foot or lower leg. The joints of the leg act as relatively effective choke points in restricting extension of blood loss internally due to the relatively minimal soft tissue between skin and bone. 3. Any crushing force sufficient to smash the ankle and do significant vascular damage will break the skin and blood will piss out everywhere. This will render the point above moot as you can just bleed out in the usual fashion at this point. 4. Any injury that involves crush damage to the ankle sufficient to smash bone will result in a permanent loss of function (range of motion restrictions) and likely chronic pain as well. Bonus fun facts about acute compartment syndrome: - It's one of the most painful conditions you can experience and even ridiculously high doses of opioid may not make it bearable while being transported to hospital. - In the lower leg it commonly leads to permanent nerve damage and loss of function of the foot and ankle if not treated in a prompt manner. Cheers, The guy who's had to treat this sort of injury too many times

I got the Mitsubishi factory alloy bar, it is lightweight and results in less hassle if hitting a wallaby at low speed, a regrettably common occurrence around here. Without any protection you get cracked bodywork, headlights and risk a leaking radiator

Genuine question: how about the alloy bars? They are much lighter (30-35kg vs. 90kg for a steel bar), they are softer in terms of allowing crumbling in, yet they still provide roo protection. Thoughts?

Hi John, It has taken me a while to think about this reply. I am the replyer you least want: degree in engineering (mechanical), Trade qualified boilermaker, owner of a large 4WD with a ARB bullbar. Firstly, I agree with your opinion on city use. There is no reason whatsoever to have a bullbar on a city-bound 4WD. However, they are essential where I live. I am only 2.5 hours from the centre of Brisbane and If I travellelled between my standard routes daily I would be off the road waiting for tows at least two times a week. Then there's the more sinister stat. Late last year one of my workmates was killed by a kangaroo entering the cabin of his vehicle at speed. Nice guy with a young family. A decent bullbar would probably have prevented this (yes, my professional opinion).

I used to drive a lot in bush area in Africa where no roads excited and therefore to protect the body of my vechile, I fitted a bushbar with good results. I therefore think you should differentiate between the guy who is using his vechile once in a while for off-road and people that use their vechiles for a special purpose.

The bull bar was designed to mitigate vehicle disabling damage in remote areas where communications and assistance are limited or non existent. For this purpose they are somewhat effective but at a cost.

Hi John. I’m not an engineer. But. I can hear 4wd chassis screaming in pain with the bull bar quivering up and down when driving over bumpy surfaces. Does this cause excess chassis stress and subsequent weakening?

Awesome video John. I remember working out in centrel queensland when BMA implemented these changes, rather controversial at the time, but I makes sense especially with all the serious accidents in those area's. It's easy to replace a vehicle, not so much bringing someone back to life.

Last year when I bought my new 2022 Toyota Tacoma (U.S.) pickup I was considering bullbars just because they look cool. But i researched them and realized that they all attach at two points with flimsy brackets, and from what I could tell in an impact it would pivot through the grill and into the radiator, causing more damage than without one. I never even considered a safety factor with these things. Anyway, I'm not big on a lot of the silly mods people do, so I just went with running boards and a roll up bed cover. Thanks for the logical info, it makes me feel like I made the right decision.

Have to agree with you on this John However as pretty much all my driving is done remotely in my triton sadly a bull bar is needed If I did city driving I would not bother with a bull bar

Hi John, it would be informative if you could do a deep dive into the ADR compliance that ARB and Ironman claim for their bullbars. On the face of it ADR compliance suggests that the modification will not negatively impact the crash performance of the vehicle…. But your report indicates this is not the case. I reckon over 90% of utes on the road have bullbars so how have the authorities allowed such a potentially massive safety issue to exist?

The only reasons I might want one is 1. To mount a winch. Yes. I know you are not a big fan but I have had to use one in the past a couple of times when truly out past dpc And 2. As a jacking point for a hi lift jack when bogged. Yes. I hate those too but what are the alternatives? If i didn't intend to go way past dpc then I 100% agree with everything you say.

When I was kid my tight arse old man worked out how much extra fuel his HQ used, the next day the roo bar was removed.

I agree. My last Ute had a bull bar and saved a lot of money from hitting Roos, however I was lucky I never had a serious crash. I decided to go without the bull bar for my new Pajero Sport.

Ahhh... I have hit maybe 15 roos, with damage ranging from a small dent and indicator, to $4k in a hire car without a roo bar. One hit with the steel bar was square on at 110kmh, a big roo, and a big hit. Only damage was an indicator mounted in the bar. That hit would have stopped our trip without a bar. Bars work in the bush. I was a surveyor in central Oz and all over the NT. Pretty much every vehicle in remote areas has a bar, with good reason. Even the community busses. If you need a bar fit one. If you dont need a bar, don't fit one. Simple. Sometimes 6 river crossings in a day, where momentum is the key, to not getting stuck. A bar could save you from a submerged object. Heavy steel bar + winch makes the roo the crumple zone.

ARB say on their website "ARB bull bars are air bag compatible, which means their installation will not affect your vehicle’s crush rate and airbag triggering.". I don't think ARB would agree with what you are saying John.

Fantastic report. My employer has just purchased a hilux with a bull bar to replace a less safe vehicle. I will pass the BHP report on to the critical risk team. Thank you John.

What you say makes sense, and if you reside in the cities even more so. Try telling anyone who lives west of the Great Dividing Range, or in remote Qld, NT, SA or WA or any interstate truckie not to fit one though. Aside from fitting a bullbar to protect the car, many purchase them to mount winches, driving lights, or a UHF antenna. I do reminisce of the d 5 posters on a Holden Ute at your local B&S Ball.

Holy sh%t I didn't realize I screwed up so bad by installing a Bullbar on my Toyota SUV. Thank you for educating us on the flaws of this product.

Hi John, do you have any anecdotal thoughts on the effect of bull-bars (in the same vein of this video), on older vehicles (GU/GQ Patrols, 80/105 Landcruisers), that either didn’t come with air-bags or had presumably rudimentary safety considerations (were crumple zones designed into these vehicles)? Cheers.

Thanks John… in a previous company I worked for it was mandated by our “Safety Officer” that all company Utes were to be fitted with a bullbar. At the time it made sense since most of the travel we did was on rural roads to remote sits. Plus I had faith in the safety compliance of the aftermarket manufacturers - sadly I may be wrong. It makes sense the crumble zone of the vehicle is reduced and the impact is concentrated down the chassis. It’s also sad after leaving the company I purchased the Ute, bullbar and all. 😟

I have been planning my next dingo piss creek Explorer. Leaning to a poly bar as I still need the benefits that a factory bumper can not withstand. Winch fitment, improved approach angle, recovery points, additional driving lights and improved protection down low for skippies is essential for the driving that I do in the NT. My current car needs the bull bar as I'm one of a few that is allowed to go out and re open 4wd tracks which often involves pushing over countless small trees. But yes your correct 90% of 4wds spend their life on the road and around towns and cities and do not need this protection that they are sold on. What do you think would be the crash test results of a bull bar vs non bull bar in a scenario of a 4wd with a gvm upgrade or travelling at max gcm. Lots more mass at play. I would presume increasing the resistance of crumple zones to crumple slower would be an advantage. The force transfer of a heavier vehicle would exceed the design loads of factory crumple zones. Hence giving the occupants a greater chance of survival. This theory would probably need to be tested to determine if any negligible difference is observed. I wonder if any crash testing has been done with factory vehicles at their gvm, see how it changes the survivability.

Not sure why bull bars are even legal for newer vehicles that have been designed with certain structural properties to mitigate the severity of an impact in the event of a crash? Surely bolting 100 kg of steel to the front of the vehicle will change the impact mitigation characteristics of the vehicle safety cell? Surely it will affect impact sensors that facilitate airbag deployment, which have been calibrated to trigger airbags in certain configurations depending on the nature of the impact which is detected? Why does fitting a bull bar not void the warranty of one's shitbox ute?

Great discussion points but you only highlighted the finer negative of bullbar. They were initially designed to reduce damage to front vehicles. BHP report 2012, what was the total weight of the vehicle against a standard. Having worked in mining for 20yrs +, the vehicles have GVM upgrades to stay within weight limits due to the addition mining spec and only 4 people can travel in Hilux dual cab. Heavy car more damage at same velocity. (Newtons law). Not all current vehicles on mine have bullbars but vehicles which travel remote of the mine into outback bush have light bullbar as standard. Mine vehicles are also normally speed limited. In this post more beard strokers talking about SAT phone. They don’t work all the time in every area. I can also see your beard strokers haven’t driven at dawn or dusk or long drives. Travel during day does restrict distance but will reduce chance of strikes. If you travel freq to outback have a light alum bullbar. Your information about crumple zones, look at the mounting plates of new bulbars they are made from corrugated soft metal to crumple in strike or incident. They are also designed to push animal under car, old design was to deflect or stop. Any increase in weight plays with the stability which you failed to advise but the manufacture should have tuned the stability of the vehicle to the GVM. I know your a fan of Mitsubishi but look at the wheel placement of rear axle, fill your Ute tray up to full weight spread over the entire tray and see how your steering and stability is, probably steers like a boat.

John - well done! I’ve never had a bull bar and the only thing I’ve ever hit are locusts (lots of them) and a wombat (once). The wombat was too low for a bull bar to have made any difference. How do I manage this you ask? By not driving at dawn and dusk. A bit like not swimming in murky tidal waters north of Gladstone - never been bothered by crocs either. 🤷‍♂️

One of the best you've done John. Excellent. Makes perfect sense. Your last explanation involving defensive driving, or knowing what to do when a roo bounds from the darkness was a tad annoying, considering reaction time and trees lining the road, but with this episode, you presented the real facts. Well done. Thank you.

Fellow bogan here, I’ve still got my hot Holden ute but I’ve never felt the need for a bull bar despite living in rural Australia, now I’m off to plan my next 253 build, thanks John.

From my knowledge of vehicle accessories and the limited number of car accidents I have seen, Bull bars are not intended to make the crash safer, but are simply to nudge things out of your way at low speed.

I have a dedicated off-road tourer 4WD. No caravan is involved. I fitted an aluminium airbag-compatible nudge bar to hold my spotlights and UHF aerial. Yes, Ive got off-road suspension fitted, but the nudge bar and lights are lightweight (pun intended), so its not front-heavy. I had some side steps fitted as well to help me get to the MaxTrax up on the roof. I knew the manufacturer Max weight roof stipulations beforehand and I am well under that - and well under GVM as well, even when fully loaded. The side steps were fitted professionally by ARB. After a big lap (including via Dingo Creek), one of those side steps broke off. Must have been a rock strike north of Innamincka. So I took both the side steps off. This has returned my ground clearance to very good. Unfortunately that also revealed some bolt holes put into my ladder frame chassis where ARB had connected those bloody side steps. So a fierce clean and a can of Rust Prevention spray later, I was good to go. I take your point... every modification compromises the original engineering. After almost 250,000 kms of mostly solo touring around OZ in my 4WD, I've never had an animal strike or an accident. I've used those extra lights heaps because the OE candles at the front are useless. I have used the UHF even more so - sometimes to get help for other travellers. Sure, the lights and UHF could have been fitted to the roof, but I chose not to. I'm on my 2nd PLB (the first EPIRB expired), an excellent/imperative backup for remote touring, but they've never been used. I've never needed a winch. The recovery point tow hitch mount has had a couple of successful outings. I think if you ever go to a 4WD Camping show, you’ll find heaps of dodgy aftermarket gear being pushed, and some very dodgy (illegal) suspension lifts on some of those high profile presenters' show cars. Off-road touring is about the experience. Many 4WD RU-vidrs are just professional entertainers prostituting themselves...

So well said, thank you for your honest engineering opinion. Experienced engineer myself I was very surprised. I want to talk to about crash cans that we won’t use for fitting Bullbars talked about more in the instructions! The only Bullbar company to talk about cash testing I found was TJM and they seem to only static crash test the bar and not a full vehicle test like in your report. Since discovering this is been looking for a winch mount to use the standard front bumper assembly and another number of them just don’t seem to have good engineering sense to them ? I’m looking to purchase a German design to an engineered winch mount to fit my personal vehicle, and it has had to pass the TUV tests and this is the safest option I’m happy with. Yes a standard Bullbar looks cool, but like driving a high end European touring bus in the mid 1990’s they had a crumple zone in front of the bulkhead, which was behind the driver seat in other words the driver was replaceable! ….

It is nice to see someone addressing this. Makes absolute sense to me. These push bars basically take steel frame like rigidity and put it out somewhere it was not designed to be. It seems all too obvious that it will mess up how forces are dispersed in a major accident. So you are just choosing whether that risk is worth it to you. I would suggest it probably is not.

John, good report. One thing to point out is BHP still fit bullbars to mine spec vehicles. They stopped fitting ROPS to LVs as you pointed out around 2013/14

This all comes down to "Risk Managment", when I say that I mean in the formal sense. Yes I have done the course and have the certificate. This "Risk Management", is a highly variable thing and that is the point. There is no question, that in a reasonably recent vehicle, fitting a bullbar can, will and does reduce the "crash worthiness" of the vehicle. BUT, we then need to look at the total risk profile. So the older the vehicle the less the bullbar is going to affect, the crash worthiness of the vehicle. In a very recent vehicle, there are all sorts of systems, airbags and ABS come to mind that will be compromised by the additional rigidity and weight. THEN there are another couple of parts of the risk management profile, "probability and frequency". In the cities the probability of hitting a pedestrian is very much higher than hitting an animal, as we move away from the cities, the probability changes and in fact inverts.The further from the cities, the much less likely you are to encounter pedestrians and the very much more likely you are to encounter animals on the roads AND at higher speeds. Those who live, work or travel away from the cities, and who must travel at high risk times, will tell you that animal strikes are a part of life. Some frequent country travelers, have told me that they expect to have at least one animal strike per trip. I live close to a capitol city (less than 30kM from the GPO) and expect about 4 animal strikes a year. A couple of weeks ago, I hit a wallaby in my own street less than 100 meters from my own front gate. In my over 40 years of driving, I have never had a frontal collision with another vehicle or a fixed object under normal driving conditions. Another part of the risk management profile is " cost and consequence". Having your vehicle damaged or immobilized by a fairly light impact with an animal, can be very costly, modern vehicles with the very soft and easily damaged frontal parts and the very high prices of those parts this becomes much more than a minor inconvenience. Having a skippy come over your bonnet and thru your windscreen can definitely be life threatening, bare in mind that is what modern passenger cars are designed to do with pedestrians. Of course another variability is the weight and design of the bullbar. A big heavy steel five poster , with the optional double scrub rails will be very rigid and very heavy, But an aluminium bar without a winch mounting plate will be around a quarter the weight and will present less of a negative impact all round. THE final matter is the necessity of the bullbar as a mounting device. Modern cars are so soft and inconveniently shaped, there is no reasonable way of mounting accessories to them. When I was a young bloke, if you wanted to mount driving lights, many cars ya just drilled thru the bumper bar and bolted em down, or got creative and mounted em thru the grill. These days there is nothing you can find strong enough to hold any sort of accessory on the front of a car ....... even then there are legalities, as they would be "dangerous protrubances" So the bullbar becaomes a necessary mounting platform, for a variety of accessories. Truth to tell though, Bullbars pale into insignificance compared to the variety of additions and modifications done especially to 4wds.

I agree, I removed the winch from my Landcruiser because it altered the handling.

they are not made for cars they are made for heavy 45 to 65 tonns B Double and semi trailer trucks to hit animals and not break down by blowing radiator not for 2 ton 4x4 its just doesn't make sense

Thanks John. Keep the educational videos (all of them) coming. Duos for today :)

Bullbars used to be a good idea; back in the '70s and '80s, when cars didn't have airbags. But unless your rig is Pre-airbag; bullbars might still be alright. But if you got airbags, ABS and just plain Inertia-reel seat belts; bullbars are somewhat redundant.

Thanks John. I want a 4x4 for my next car to use as 4x4. I ride in the bush so want a vehicle that can go those places as well. Definitely keep this information in mind if I buy something without one.

Thanks for the info. Having bowled a number of roos in outback where there is no mobile coverage to get rescued having a bar on the front increases likelihood of being able to carry on. I will role the dice and stay with the bar. Seeing the wrecked vehicles religiously turning up at the wreckers after stint living in Ceduna is a strong argument for these mods. I get what your saying it is a conundrum. Do you actually drive way outback?

JC how does this work for factory accessories? Toyota sell “genuine” bullbars (which are aesthetically vomit inducing, but I digress) and presumably these would not be allowed to impact the safety rating? Granted I’ve never bought one, so don’t know for sure; but as a consumer I would expect the ANCAP rating to be unchanged when fitting factory accessories-or appropriate warnings being required to be accepted regarding the reduction in safety. Although I’m writing this it has occurred to me that there are no such warnings that fuel consumption will be affected when attaching accessories-so maybe it’s conveniently left out. Are you aware of the regulations (or lack thereof) in the factory-accessory space?

You 10000 per cent right john, i had an accedent dec 2023 i tboned a sedan at 80kph no bullbar my ute held up well apart from no air bags going off! Went out and did a bit of research weather. i would have been better off with one and realized i would have killed the other driver and probley had done more damage to myself!

Just had a look at the Izuzu, Mazda and Ford sites. All three had genuine bull bars on offer. I wonder if these companies have done anything in research/development/safety testing for their optional extras.

As someone who spent more than 35 years as an emergency services worker and zipped a few beard strokers into PVC bags for their second to last car ride ever I can suggest that the cause of their demise was less likely to be the bull bar on their Utes and more likely to be the hotel bar they should have left long before they did. Having said that I further suggest that one of the most popular and expensive vehicles still on the road and for sale is one of the most dangerous death traps with or without a bull bar and that is the 79 series Landcruiser Utes and wagons. They were blessed with little to no primary or secondary safety features in the 1980,s and 90,s when I was forced to drive one and they haven’t changed at all. In fact they are still around courtesy of the best marketing campaign ever run by a car company and are still beloved of the most orthodox beard strokers. Of course the cruiser Ute should have a couple of hundred kilos of steel proudly out front and almost nothing to keep you alive from behind the 400 watt kangaroo singeing driving lights right through to the end of their motorcyclist decapitating rear trays. They are the classic DAAS vehicle. (Dangerous At Any Speed) But ignorance is bliss, it says so on their gravestones, they are just full of bliss now.

I'm loving these frequent videos John, keep them coming. One if these days I'm going to think of something beard stroker-ish to say so I can feature on your show, especially so you can read it in that voice, classic.

My current four wheel drive Hilux Revo I didn't put a bull bar on for all of the reasons you mentioned the other reason was water 💦intrusion on water crossing well below the factory wading depth by removing the plastic bumpers and trim around the wheel wells allowed water a clear path to the air box inlet. I opted for the factory nudge bar so it might save the radiator in a roo strike and protect the car from drivers who can't parallel park

I love my bullbar in the city, especially in carparks 😊

Its not just BHP John. Every single LV on a mine site in OZ has a bull bar and ROPS fitted.

Muppet here. I haven’t seen the BHP report. Is there any other facts to support the bullbar bad hypothesis?

I'd like to know your view on SmartBar bullbars. It's a brand that's owned by ARB and they make polyethylene (plastic) bullbars. They're designed to asborb impact and return to shape. All of South Australia's Ambulances use them and from what I've read in the comments, their stealthbar is one of the only bullbars legal in the EU. According to their website (which I know, may or may not be trusted) they are the safest bullbar for pedestrians and vehicle occupants. Also thanks for the great video it's made me think about the ARB bullbar fitted on my ute.

Bullbar use especially where I live and drive is largely for animal strikes. Not to minimise frontal car collision impact reduction. Having hit multiple animals with and without bullbars I know which works best in the real world.

I've use these bars many times, but I've never called them bull-bars. Is that an Australian term? We call them brush guards because that is what they are designed for. When a trail is overgrown you go down it slow and the brush guard pushes the relatively small brush (branches, twigs, and such) out of the way without damaging your car (especially a branch through the radiator) and without you needing to stop and cut it back. I had no clue people thought that they could be used as a sort of armor in car crashes. That just seems a bit weird to me.

Glad to see the focus on the issue. As a safety professional, this report and it's implications comes up here and there over the years, but oddly many organisations still fit and advocate them. I am curious if you have any info on the suitability of fitting 'bash plates' to 4WDs?

ROPS and bull bars raise the centre of gravity, the other problem with some of these vehicles is that the suspension and spring rates are not altered to suit the new weight and change in vehicle dynamics

In the UK bull bars were banned decades ago. Thanks for the interesting report John.

I did watch Mr Cadogan's video, yes, I did download Mr Jenkins power point presentation and go through it, and there is, in my opinion a significant flaw in the test methodology, especially as it relates to the "bullbar aspects" of the test. The "control vehicle" used a a reference was a brand new 2006 model without a steel bull bar, and the test specimen was a "decommissioned, end of lease" vehicle, rather than a brand new, 2006 model with a steel bullbar. Why does this matter? What difference does it make? I'm glad you asked, because I think it's important - mining companies lease vehicles, and replace them when they are no longer "fit for task". Essentially a decommissioned, end of lease vehicle can be considered to be at the end of it's usable life, the majority of them will have been well used in a harsh environment, potentially with corrosion, damaged components, etc. - the tests paid for and conducted by BHP Billiton, do not appear to consider the possible impact of vehicle condition on the test results. Would any Australians out there like to comment on the general condition of a decommissioned, end of lease, light vehicle from an Australian mining company? I certainly wouldn't consider buying one here. Beaten into the ground is how I would describe them, but maybe Australians aren't as hard on their vehicles as we are. I'm also going to point out in response to Mr Cadogan's comment that the chunk of steel attached to the front of the chassis will affect the airbag triggering, that the ADRs (Australia Design Rules) which commercially manufactured bull bars must meet, require that the manufacturer demonstrate that the product does not adversely affect the said timing. I do agree with him that if any manufacturer had done tests that showed the product increased safety there would be much fanfare & hoopla about it.

I see where your coming from. But, in the real world I remember driving Kalgoorlie to Marble Bar late in the day into the night and hitting 6 Kangaroo without incident with a Landcruiser with bull bars. This was the early 80's and with the 5 star BHP utes I think I'd be muntered after the first roo. Maybe allo ring protection is the answer for the madmax roo clan.

Had a TJM bullbar for three years. Why for recovery points and protection from roos and better approach angle. Hit plenty of roos. Newer bullbars work with airbags.

Think I might cancel the bar I ordered for the new Pajero sport! Save 3 grand too 😊

Mr Cadogan, I absolutely love your no BS factual reporting. Facts do not care about your feelings. A quick take away for these "Bull" bar manufacturers would be to develop a bar that repels the force of a kangaroo yet crumples and conforms the vehicle standard crumple/absortion rate above such force like a small hatch 800kg. Never have I heard of an 800kg roo. Surely that's the best engineering outcome? Please correct me or point out the flaw here? People will always buy every showroom product for there vehicle. Therefore the industry needs to change. Please forgive my atrocious grammar, I spent highschool staring out the window daydreaming. I know it's a pet peave of yours. Again I apologise Sir Cadogin speaker of TRUTH AND FACTS. P.S that wasn't quick🤦

I'm interested to hear where things like smart bars fall in this equation.

I’m ashamed to say that Ive hit two Wallabies so far with my 2017 Disco late at night driving in Sydney’s northern beaches area. Never even saw them coming to even have a chance of avoiding. Minor damage to front fender both times, all easily fixable. If I ever had a reason to fit a bar it would be for this but now - no way! Instead, I’ll drive slower, use my fog lights in these backroads and be more prepared. At least I know that my chances will be better if the sh*^t really does hit the fan!

The only issue I have with this is the use of a 10 year old report on a previous generation or 2 vehicle model

I hit a big too at 110kmh 500kms for the nearest town. Damaged the bar, but nothing else. Would have been a radiator and tow for sure without it

Most modern bull bars have inbuilt crumple zones. If you look at modern ARB bars they have on their mounting system a concertina like metal structure that mount between the bar and the chassis rails. I went through the report and the crashed hilux with the bullbar looks like something broke in the suspension or the bulbar side return was pushed back into the fire wall. It also looks like it is an older N70 hilux compared to the non bullbar N70. The N70 hilux started production in 2007 and ended production in 2015. One thing I noticed is the wheel arch return on the side of the bull bar was solid with the bar. It looks like lazy design of the bar as the returns are basically cosmetic. If that was a bolt on section designed to shear and bend back in on itself in a controlled manner then the results may have been different. I'm thinking poor design on the manufacturer of the bar rather then all bull bars are death traps.

On a similar note, I bought a 2nd hand KTM 1090 motorcycle a couple of years ago. Previous owner had a full set of "crash bars" fitted, which covered the upper engine and tank, making the bike much wider. 1st thing I did was remove them. Less weight, less wind resistance and less dangerous to a pedestrian in an impact.

Used to go bush in the ARES and cannot remember their Land Rovers and MOGS having bull bars. For that matter did not seem to have all the driving lights and regalia either. Not sure why the Army seems to not need them, maybe the camouflage paint job frightened the bulls away?

I'm IT who did support BHP Billiton and I can say safety is VERY critical for BHP operation around the globe so I would believe what they say.

Excellent information! I recently did a road trip around VIC- SA- NSW with my sons, on a stock Subaru Outback, and after 5000 KM I can say that if you avoid driving in dusk and Dawn and pay some attention to the wildlife around you, no bull bar is really needed. Of course in case of serious accident- impact everything that you mentioned is expected to happen if extraneous material is fitted, so I prefer to keep the vehicle's integrity and pay for a comprehensive insurance instead.

There's a lot of comments from people who don't live or work in country full of roos, I've worked and travelled a lot at night, Roos in plague proportions, I hit a full size buck, in my 100 series, Bull bar allowed me to continue my journey with some damage, Many years ago I owned a 60 series with Bull Bar made by a independent elderly gent in Mt Isa , It was designed to deflect the roo down and off to the side, It work very well, My Brother in law had one fitted to his 83 Sahara, it saved him early one morning, hitting a large roo at 100kms per hour, no damage, No one wants to hit any animals , but this is Australia, Live in the bush full time.

Spoken like a true city slicker.