The Truth about Demons: High Society, Love Affairs, and the Fight for Freedom | Dark Souls Lore 

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This makes me wonder how much time has really passed. We are not the first chosen undead and given you only go hollow if u quit playing, how many years has she defended the bell? How much humanity did she collect?

@@mr.voidroy6869 I know when you give the Lordvessel to Frampt he says something along the lines of: "It's you, it is really you! After a THOUSAND years it is truly you!". So at least by Frampt's reckoning it's been that long since Gwyn sacrificed himself to link the flame. Which is... wow. That means the Fair Lady has been in unimaginable pain for that long, maybe even longer depending on when they traveled to Blighttown and the Fair Lady took on her subject's blight that leads to her current condition* (I believe that's the theory why she's in her current state, but it may be wrong; I'm not perfectly versed on the lore.)

@@---qg6nq Is that how long it's been since Gwyn linked the fire or how long it's been since his soul became poor enough fuel that the fire started waning again, which would probably be when the flame gang started looking for a "chosen Undead"?

Bare in the mind the statues are of the flame priests, meaning it is possibly a shrine of some sort.

halisme Worshipping their origin

also the hierarchy that its shown as we fight the Demon King and the Demon Prince later on the DLC

These could also be dead demons though

Damn, we need Hawkshaw to do DS2 and DS3 lore too... I will be waiting...

i'd like to hear more about that.

perhaps we should look at the blood on their hands, as... well blood on their hands, in the figuratively sense, since they indirectly, and probably directly killed many of their own kin.

I assumed it's because the pale white is linked with death in Asian cultures.

An Evil Stripper you also realize how the demon prince is just a really big, flaming bat demon? Or how there are ghrus in the smouldering lake and look strikingly similar to demons themselves? Or even how there are a type of ghru named the “conjurator ghrus?” I don’t believe it’s a coincidence that the conjurator set describes conjurators as predecessors to the pyromancers.

GioDude 1987 what are you implying with this comparison?

Same, this guys have made an amazing job at piecing things together, it's mindblowing tbh. As the title says i'm rediscovering the lore. The timeline was brilliant too, i feel like a thorn has been pulled from my side. I say this cause as many i've been looking at lore theories for years now, only to end up either having more questions, being angry at incoherencies being stated as fact, or getting even more confused by vagueness or misinterpretations. Keep it up Hawkshaw, CANNOT WAIT FOR MORE, I want lore on everything, there's still so many questionmarks!! My DS1 lore enthusiasm has been rekindled!!

I love this channel, but the Qellanna was one of the only NPC's I didn't think was a sociopath. That's gone now.

Youve seen everything with different itterations but arent subscribed to hawkshaw yet!?

@@kylebutler9865 I personally think Quelana misunderstands what is happening and sees what you do as mercy. This is supported by her returning to Izalith in ds3 and keeping the Fair Lady company until they die together. You can find Quelana's corpse hugging her sister's in the smoldering lake, and Cornyx says she went back to Izalith in a tone that implies overcoming a fear rather than coming back to finish the job.

Exactly this. I haven’t felt this mental rush of thought about DS1 since my first Vaati video and probably ENB’s lore discussions before that. Damn this is a blast from the past in the modern day.

I doubt that Quelana, as the princess of a whole civilization, had only one set of clothes.

to be fair... aren't we missing a sister from the lore? That could very well be that said missing sister.

@Aickavon the Techpriest Right. Though we are technically missing three I suppose. Quelana, Quelaag, The Fair Lady, The one outside BoC (players call her Grana for some reason) That leaves 3. It's speculated that 2 sisters were sacrificed to the Bed, becoming those orbs we have to destroy in the boss fight. So the last could be the corpse by Discharge.

@@aickavon i know this is an old as fuck comment, but, i wanted to let you know that i am very happy to see that you have also thought of this. ive not come across one lore video that mentions this little tidbit and in turn, no one in the comments as far as i have seen, has said anything about it either. this has been a theory of mine for a long time.

​@@tavrosnitram1529epic name bro an og dark souls lore channel coveted this around 2011-2012. I highly recommend it as it gives insight into the lore from a time perspective of right after the game released instead of the hindsight we have now.

omg dash of destruction pfp, the best free game.

Coraline Kozun I think it was done on purpose to reflect the state of society and see how the people viewed the demons via propaganda and the manipulation you get for killing the inhabitants of Izalith

I'm pretty sure it was on purpose. I too loved the demons and wanted to know more about everything surrounding them, but if your told everything I think it will take of way from that question, "are demons really bad guys".

I agree. That is what fascinated me about them as well. Listening to their music, (ie Quelaag’s music, and the bed of chaos music) makes it sound very foreign, and unknowable... But not necessarily evil, rather angelic in its own strange way

I'll never forget seeing Izalith on the way to kill Nito, and that giant dome, thinking it was just background art, much like looking up at Anor Londo's walls. Going to both places was awe inspiring. I recall a giant WTF moment when I realised that I was actually inside the dome, with the Angkor Wat inspired buildings. When I cleared out the Demon ruins in DS3, I felt genuinely sad for the demons, if not outright guilty. We're the real monsters lol Now that people can start modding the game, total conversion wise, I hope someone finishes it, and even gives us the world near its prime.

It sucks that Izalith wasn't properly designed due to time constants because the architecture in the area is fucking beautiful. It's honestly one of my favorite areas in DS1 and I know a lot of people will look at me like I'm crazy when I say that.

That'd explain a lot of the lack of options: no killing Fina, no peaceful solution with Quelaag, killing multiple Lords for their souls even though a single one ought to have been enough for the First Flame (though I don't know why the door to the kiln required 4 Lord Souls to open).

Quelaag attacks us silently on her own; we probably wouldn't have even been able to understand her without the Old Witch's Ring. Fina...isn't actually in the game, and so you couldn't kill you even if you wanted to, and the reason we collect the souls is to enter the Kiln, not to give them to the First Flame.

Sloth HQ Would you kindly...lol

Try saying No to Kingseeker Frampt in a fresh playthrough. The implication of his response is that you are unimportant in the grand scheme of things, and that he may expect more undead to come along eventually

DUN DUN DUUUUUUUUUN!!!!

largely youtube algorithms, its hard for people to find out about us.

well i found out about you thru Vaati's recommendation, so expect more viewers now he has shouted out your excellent work. :)

the voice!!! vaati has such a smooth voice xD

The better is always on the underground, friend.

@sickhouse after hearing how vaati talks on his live streams, hearing his dark souls videos makes him sound super pretentious and fake

A cute idea, not sure if it applies all the way back to DS1 though.

I believe he went hollow cause quelana didn’t show herself to him for whatever reason. Causing him to lose his will to live

She didn't show to him because his flame wasn't +10​@@brysonbridges1496

Good idea. I plan to start integrating more variety with music

As a matter of fact since Xanthous King means Yellow king we could make the relationship with a Chutulu mythos character, the King in Yellow is an Avatar of Hastur, so named because of his appearance as a thin, floating man covered in tattered yellow robes, removing the mask is a sanity-shattering experience; the King's face is described as "inhuman eyes in a suppurating sea of stubby maggot-like mouths; liquescent flesh, tumorous and gelid, floating and reforming, so Hastur is an old one which could be considered a demon and both characters have a really ugly face XD

Then again though, there is a difference between pyromancers and sorcerers, so this may actually disprove that part a bit.

@@randomusername.5605 true, but Flame Sorcery also came from Izalith. It was forgotten in favour of Pyromancy, but Demon Firesage still uses it. Maybe these scholars were trying to study the ancient Demon culture, the one before the "engulfment"?

@@randomusername.5605 There is the Izalith Staff in DS3, which feeds off of the same stats as Pyromancy does, and is intended for Dark Sorceries, so the connection from Izalith to Sorcery is definitely there, even though they are by far the most well known for their Pyromancy. It may very well even be that the Xanthous Scholars are studying Sorcery that has nothing to do with Izalith's own, but that simply because of its proximity to Izalith, is assumed to be similar.

you made a very compelling case for jeremiah being the father of the daughters of chaos, i dont know if you know that but it apears that isalith is a combination of the words isfet which means chaos in egyption mythology and lilith which means "nightly" in hebrew and is also a specific species of owl BUT she is also the mother of demons and the first woman in hebrew mythology. so if isalith has more connections to hebrew names and words it also supports your theory about jeremiah since his name would also originated from hebrew mythology. you might wanna check out the ashen hollow's video about chaos and dark and the identity of velka if you havent already

Well i wonder if this demon is ma or youkai, if it just youkai it even closer to in between theory

Hawkshaw This video is gold, would you allow me to translate your subs into italian?

Vaati sent me here. I am not disapoointed. Now subscribed.

Put colaborative subtitles for we translate for portuguese.

hm. or that we never told anyone who we were taught by. or that we were the last human pupil? the more interesting implication is that she killed her sister. we wrote this video before ds3 and a spell of quelanas by her dead sister is pretty convincing that we were right.

@@Hawkshaw Extremely old, but I would say that since the Soul of Cinder (the deific manifestation of all Lords of Cinder) uses normal pyromancies, not *Chaos* Pyromancies, is solid evidence that none of the Chosen Undead were students of Quelana.

@@Mare_Man Quelana don't know chaos pyromancies only the " usual " of the great swamp that she teached to Salaman so it's possible to think that she teached her art to the chosen undead as well

I'm still not entirely convinced, i can believe that she wanted us and others to kill her family, but i'm not sure that her intentions were entirely evil, maybe she never understood the Chaos itself (because she only teaches her pyromancies, not the ones from Izalith), and couldn't comprehend why her sisters were happy with the "mostrosities" they became I'm not trying to defend her, but we have not enough clue of why she hates her family so much, there has to be a meaningful reason as to why she go as far as developing a pyromancy to control undeads and why she tries to hide it that she hates them

*I’M SOR-RY*

Just posted a comment pointing the same thing out ; )

Lautrec has something similar on the front of his armour .

+Natusake Sorry for the long wait, Praise the lore!

+Hawkshaw Do you have any idea when the next one will be because these are great.

+Obi Wan Kenobi in about 10 days there will be another, shorter video, starting our "stories of the gods" series.

+Hawkshaw PRAISE THE LORE! =D

+Hawkshaw dude these are crazy good, this needs a lot more views

It would also explain why he's in the painted world, he wasn't hiding, but a prisoner of the gods. The painted world is just as much a place to hide as it is a dumping ground for anything the gods don't like and/or are afraid of.

@@shambleshef exactly.

But what about the fire, stray and cleric demons?

@@Supremacy-wg8jc Extinction can mean not only the destruction of a species, but the destruction of its ability to reproduce.

@@Supremacy-wg8jc he said all but

@@Supremacy-wg8jc even with a few specimens alive a species unable to reproduce is extinct.

Good End

+James Maillet Cheers! It'd be a great help to spread the word where you can

Or some sort of prize for victory; "to capture and imprison the king of the enemy nation." Their logic for having xanthous's betrayal be the cause for the witch's fall is good though, but it does seem unlikely that there xanthous would be exiled; then go to anor londo and enter a painting to... escape? Is pretty loose. I think more likely there was mounting tension between the two nations and jerimiah got seduced by thena, as part of a ploy to destabilize izaleth. He gets seduced up to anor londo; only to be captured and imprisoned

+Tar Alacrin Gwyn cannot exile a King of the region he is at war with Xerxesrogue, that doesn't make sense. Do you mean capture as opposed to exile? It is explicitly stated that he was exiled so "prize for victory" or capturing is not a possibility. Instead it is in fact extremely likely that Jeremiah would go to Anor Londo after exile, since he would have wanted to see Fina who lived there and he was no longer an enemy of Gwyn, who has always been open to turncoats. Why he enters the painting is likely a later development. Perhaps as the growth develops he is spurned by Fina and therefore goes to the painted world as all monsters who are spurned often do. In response to the pyromancers: these have nothing to do with Xanthous. they are also exiles/driven from their home, but have been driven from the great swamp. They like Eingyi adopted the use of poisonous pyromancies and were exiled. Their bloated toxic heads are what happens when the blightpus is not removed as it was for Eingyi. I also don't believe exiles come to the painted world through the painting, or not always. In berserk when you are in a bad enough state you can be drawn into the astral world by a behelit. In priscilla's case perhaps this is the doll. They all desperately want to escape and have a home and so are transported there somehow.. I don't know and haven't thought about this function but priscilla, the crows and the skeleton wheels etc didn't trot through the cathedral into the painting.

+Hawkshaw Good point on the exile thing. I was coming from the assumtion that everything (pre-demon war) was sort of technically under the rule of gwyn from anor londo, even if it was only in lip-service. Thus banishment to the painted world could still be exile. I don't think the growths were developed afterwards, since it states in the description of his armor that "no one knows where it came from", which seems to imply to me that he already had the strange armor and strange headwrap when he "appeared on the scene" so to speak. But that's super thin. That "no one knows where it came from" is an interesting wrench though, because if he was the king of Izaleth and was exiled; surely people would know where his strange garb came from, right? King of one of the two biggest nations isn't exactly a low profile gig. I think they are probably talking from the perspective of the legend told about him and Fina. (his armor says "Legendary exile" her ring says "known in Legend to posess fateful beauty" it seems that they may be both known through the same legend told about the exile and the goddess) if this is the case, then we could probably dismiss the line as "nobody knowing" referring to the fact that none of the common folk who are talking about this legend and passing it down know . Idk, anyways I don't think I said this; but brilliant find on the jeremiah izaleth connection, love this channel. As for the Painted World; I think its definitely not a natural place or it was originally a natural place that is now accessed via a painting; Priscilla says that "Ariamis created this world" and even the name being the "painted world" implies that the world was created with the painting. Even the way you exit the world being to jump off the cliff which spits you out of the painting implies that the painting is more than just a mere portal to an already existing land. And Priscilla's soul refers to her being "inside the painted world", which implies that the world exists magically within the painting, rather than just being a real location far away or something. Furthermore I think there are a few clues that bring the idea that the purpose of the Painted World is a sanctuary for misfits into question; Why are there so many pieces of anti-Lord items hidden within; (Dark Ember used for creating weapons effective against Lords, all sorts of things associated with Velka who is described as a rogue deity, Velka's rapier also has the occult trait) And even more importantly why does Priscilla's soul and her scythe describe her as being "Trapped inside the painted world of ariamis"? If it is just a sanctuary for the castaways. I believe that the painted World was created to hide things away from the rest of the world, things that were feared by the gods, or that the gods didn't want to be destroyed but didn't want others to know about or have access to, etc. Thats why the place is so full of things that the gods fear; heck even Priscilla was "feared by the gods" for her lifehunt ability, also for being a bastard crossbreed that could cause some weird PR issues. I think that despite its original cause for creation, the place turned out, it wound up becoming a sanctuary of sorts, due I'm sure in part to the kindness of Priscilla watching over everything. I believe that Some of these things were also preserved in case gwyn needed to use them later down the line against other Lords. ie; having a bunch of occult weaponry on hand is real useful if he ever had to go to war with Nito or the Witch of Izaleth. Its kind of like his store of WMDs. There's more to this puzzle if we look at the painting guardians. Their set talks about how they have been guarding the painting of Ariamis for Ages; so long in fact that they have forgotten why they guard it. Their sword also gives mention that they have been striking down any that "dare threaten the painting" for generations. So its clear that they aren't guarding things from exiting the painting; rather stopping any that might destroy or damage it or its contents in any way. So if they are protecting the painting from external threats; who are they protecting it from? Well, if we look at the armor set description we see that it specifically points out how the armor has a very high magic resist. This further supports the idea that the place is not just a sanctuary; because the painting guardians are fairly ill equipped to fight against Gwyn and his army or anyone with lightning or physical attacks; who would be the most likely people that everyone is be wanting sanctuary from. Now who in the universe has a motive for breaking in to the painting and is also heavily linked with magic? Well, it just so happens that two names spring to mind, and both have fairly strong motives for doing just that. Velka and her agents have strong ties to magic, and it seems that she could be one potential attacker, after all, much of what the painting has locked away are hers in the first place, and she already seems to be at odds with the gods somehow, and surely the more occult weaponry she can obtain, the better. On the other hand we have Seath, obviously heavily linked to magic, and a verified turncoat already so I wouldn't put it past him to want to either attack the gods or have safeguards against them should they attack him first. and furthermore, the Painted World contains someone who is very likely his child; a child that he probably doesn't have as much revulsion for as the gods do.I think the painted world may actually specifically have been created to hide and protect things from falling into the hands of those two. All that to say though, I think that there has to be more to the tale of King Jeremiah how he ended up in the painted world than simply fleeing there, since it would be difficult to just flee past the painting guardians, who would surely wish to prevent him from entering unbidden, and as per my previous points it seems more like the painted world is a hidden prison for the gods to lock away things that they fear or they don't want to deal with, rather than a sanctuary for those who don't fit in. Also, side note; why the heck is there a Berenike knight in the painted world? Did he travel with tarkus to anor londo then somehow get trapped in there as well? Was he thrown in? or did he just wander in? Thats a weird one. And one that quite frankly I don't think it has a satisfying answer. Interestingly enough, Velka's Rapier also describes Velka as being a "black haired witch" and well versed in "all manners of sorcery". I wonder if Velka was one of the fragments of manus? I feel like she fits the bill working against the Lords, being super manipulative, Being associated with the Dark and the Occult... I'm sure I could find more evidence if I took the time. But its more likely than she was just this super powerful goddess that kinda materialized out of nowhere with no connections to anything or anyone else.

+Hawkshaw Too explain my speculation a bit more, it was grounded mostly in a thought of Gwyn winning the war or just conquered Izalith, and what then? Would he have killed the queen, one of the four lords? Would he wipe the demons from existence, or have any interest in occupying the lands for himself? Because if not, a good answer to end the war in peace (more or less), and put an end to future retaliation from Izalith, would be to bring the king with him back to Anor Londo, even if it would piss the queen off immensely. I will admit, exile becomes a bit of a strange choice of words at this point, and after thinking about it some more, the Fina connection is a bit too unlikely to be completely random. My point about the pyromancers is that in the description of Fire Surge and Acid Surge, it is clearly stated that they are not from the great swamp, and given nothing links these spells to Izalith either. It's unlikely that they are from Blighttown originally. Outside of Eingyi, Quelana and Laurentius making appearances there, the only pyromancer there, is the corpse with Power Within on it (if the body with Laurentius' set, and poison mist on it belongs to Laurentius). If the pyromancers had any connection to Blighttown, you would probably be able to find one of the Surge spells there, and the other in The Painted World, but we don't. There is nothing really to go on, in who these pyromancers are, but we just find them along with Jeremiah, in The Painted World. You could be right in that they are just outcast, which is kind of likely, since Laurentius' spesifically implies pyromancers often are, given the nature of their practice. Even so, why The Painted World? Thanks for the reply though, and keep up the good work. These videos keeps me thinking about Dark Souls 1 lore even still, after 2 sequels a handful of years, and frequent playing. They, along with playing DS3 recently really just undermines, and remind me how good the first game really is, and how wonderful it is to dig into.

Self fulfilling prophecy perhaps

Deceptive and self-fulfilling both work.

Well, it's not really a prophecy, is it? More of a scheme. The creation of a religious flavor surrounding the plot is what makes it a "prophecy", and when that is revealed to be naught more than the scheme of those who would do anything to hold onto what little power they have left?

hiya. it doesn't require it to be forced. if you know she's kind hearted you can send a poisoned, deluded eingyi down there hoping that she will cure him and infect herself. of course she made a choice. an example that comes to mind because of our nito in love interpretation is how penelope isn't forced to eat the pomegranate. its placed there temptingly. as to kind hearted demon analogy, i believe we show or at least try to show that demons aren't intrinsically evil so the assumption that she wouldnt become a demon because she is kind doesn't apply. the demons keep to themselves. in addition it could be done from a position of ignorance if they were among the first to transform.

I see where you are coming from. To me it just seems that the people from the Great Swamp who became these egg-bearers were all equally diseased and the Fair Lady swallowed up that disease to help them. Then in turn the began to serve the Flame of Chaos. But again, that is just my interpretation, and the whole point of Dark Souls is creating as many unique stories as we can. So I definitely still enjoy the theory you've created here! =)

+broomguy7 The next things to come should be both shorter but also faster, I'm hoping. Glad to hear you've enjoyed it so much

its not a work of art so much as it is a work of science lol

Perhaps soon we can debate things openly with engaged people like yourself. Yes- we can use all the help we can get!

+Karolus Magnus ahh good question. we have an idea, I'm afraid our idea isn't Nito though.. its so caught up in so much it will be one big video. But look out for Nito in our upcoming vid!

Hawkshaw hope it comes out soon, you really poked my curiosity with your videos, thank for answering.

+Snowbrawler you get it man. you get it. hope you enjoyed and look out for more.

+Hawkshaw I will, really liked the DS timeline episode, if you manage to pull off one for each game i'll be staggered :p