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I used to have a pretty nihilistic mindset. Like, everything sucks, nothing matters, we're all going to end up in the dirt anyway, so fuck shit up. As I got older, that changed to everything sucks and we're all going to end up in the dirt, so right now is the only thing that matters. Do the most good you can in the moment because it's the only moment you have. I have made that journey through hardcore.
We played a show in D.C. Wilson Center in 81. When we were about to go back to NYC, one guy asked if he could hitch a ride with us. That was John Joseph, who later sang for the CroMags. He came back and landed in a squat on Ave D. He found out that there was free food at the Krishna temple in Brooklyn and started going there, and brought along other street people from the NYHC scene. The temple turned him into a devotee, and he was tasked into bringing more people from the scene, which included Harley. Thats when they decided that Krisha should be spread among the scene through their band. Thats where all this started in hardcore, including the veganism
Damn, you played at the Wilson Center in '81, that's fucking awesome! What band did you play in? Who did you play with? I love reading, or watching videos/documentaries about the first wave of hardcore punk. I didn't get into it until '88/'89, as I was 11 or 12 years old. The first hardcore punk I got into was FAITH, MINOR THREAT, BAD BRAINS, S.O.A, NEGATIVE APPROACH, SEPTIC DEATH, etc., basically anything I could find in the record stores/mail-order, which was mostly from DISCHORD. I fell in love with it immediately. I'm 47 now, and still love it!
Actually the show got shut down by the cops. The line up was my band, The Attack, the Undead, I think SOA and the Bad Brains. It was my intro to the D.C. scene
CRASS were already vegan in the late 70's-if it began anywhere, it began there. All the Krishnas we'd be talking to in the late 80's / early 90's explicitly argued AGAINST veganism, because to them, by us eating the milk from the cows, the cows would gain spiritual advancement (this is why from time to time, krishnas would "forget" to tell you about milk ingredients in the food they were giving you if you asked ... they felt that everyone gained spiritually by tricking us into eating the burfi lol). I can't give Krishnas/Cro-Mags credit for veganism in hardcore/punk, they neither introduced it nor did they popularize it.
@@Guav Yes, that's true, but Finn is American and mostly talks about his experience in the American hardcore scene. These are two different scenes separated by an entire ocean. The Crass/Amebix/anarcho/crust thing was a uniquely British tendency back in the early 80s. NY/DC/Cali hardcore was American. They were both expressions of a working class/street culture punk rock, but one was distinctly American, and one was distinctly British.
@@HammarHeart With all due respect, I don't require a history or geography lesson-I'm 52, I was there. I was in the epicenter of veganism spreading throughout hardcore and played a not insignificant role in it. I wasn't replying to anything that Finn said, I was replying to a comment that was giving Cro-Mags credit for veganism in hardcore. Yes, Cro-Mags were vegetarian, but it was Youth Of Today and Gorilla Biscuits that were really what spread vegetarianism in hardcore, and it was Earth Crisis that popularized and spread veganism. Karl from ExC wasn't vegan because of the Cro-Mags, he was vegan because he was super into Crass and other British punk bands-he used to have huge liberty spikes lol. Again, the Krishnas were always anti-vegan. They do not get credit for veganism in hardcore or punk. That's just not how it happened.
This is some of the most legitimately interesting and enjoyable content you've made lately. Your other content, more on the entertainment spectrum and enjoyable in it's own respect. It's nice to have a variety.
Ya, the channel has really gone downhill. The Nu Metal and Butt Rock coverage was by far the best. Now it's like he's trying to be like that other bald nerd talking about punk and hardcore. That Danny framptonio guy
@@slashismyhommie8182 are you being sarcastic? This is the content Finn did when he first started growing. I don’t mind the nu metal and buttrock, but it’s not why I stick around. It’s for this stuff.
Early punk had something to say. Music in the mid seventies was starting to get overproduced, shallow and corporate and punk tore that down beautifully. Sometime in the eighties Punk started to become a sport with each band trying to one-up their competitors to be more sonically aggressive. Full throttle gets really tedious and in the end all you have is a wall of white noise with nothing to say but anger.
GWAR is a band that on the surface seems over the top and low brow id music, but they actually tackle how fucked up humanity is through their goofy insane songs and concept albums.
This is the reason I subscribed years ago. I knew a guy in middle school with all the hxc flyers for local shows he’d been to. Your background makes me feel like I’m learning about cool underground shit all over again
man i just wanted to say i've been watching you for a while now, and i genuinly think this is one of your best videos. you did such a great job with this, it was super educational and im checking out a ton of the bands you mentioned. I know recently you mentioned feeling like the material on this channel was getting stale and difficult to make, but i think this video proves that you are still an insanely talented, knowledgeable creator that definitely serves as a huge positive to the music community at large.
@@MichaeMichaelMichael check out Speed, Drain, Kublai Khan TX, Knocked Loose, Sunami, Dying Wish, Outta Pocket, Kind Eyes, Erase Them, God's Hate, Big Boy, Xibalba, Jesus Piece, Magnitude, Weapon X There's a ton of modern hardcore bands that are good, some of these are close to metalcore or deathcore but still great bands Also recommend subscribing to hate5six on here for tons of live hardcore shows
@@MichaeMichaelMichaellots of rly good bands and a lot are really popular too. knocked loose, gel, scowl, drain, gangcalledspeed, turnstile are all very popular
@@MichaeMichaelMichael some amazing things are going on in the scene. Check out Judiciary, Momentum, Power Trip, Pain of Truth, Speed, Sunami, End It, Never Ending Game, Gridiron, God's Hate, Harms Way, Twitching Tongues, Xibalba, Dying Wish, and Trapped Under Ice
May I add to all this, with the band CRASS!? Their albums talk about how religion is an opiate for the masses, etc... but my favorite album will always be P*nis Envy.. where they talk about the wonderful world us women live in.. and they did this in the early 80s in Britian, during Thatcher's government.. they tried to encourage people to think of why thing were the way they were and maybe let's change it!! They were into the whole DIY, ideal, making their own record company to be able to get their own records out... They've been a favorite band of mine, ever since I heard and bought a double record set of 'the feeding of 5000' and Jesus christ - the album.. Also, I want to add that CRASS was singing about veganism back in the early 80s..
Not just Crass. The entire anarcho-punk scene and hardcore punk scene influenced and meshed with anarcho-punk, aka crust scene. It's a mesh of early abrasive, politically aware, darker punk with fast hardcore punk and little bit of metal, but mostly punk. And all of that happened even before crossover scene during mid 80s. So, thinking man's punk isn't just something reserved to one scene or time. To omit this fact shows Finn's biased against this major part of punk culture.
I have to say, this is one of the most thought provoking videos on music I think I've ever seen and I think it may be my favorite video from you. As someone who is probably much younger than your main audience, it's super cool to hear and learn about these past stories, bands, events, and movements that I otherwise wouldn't have known about. Love the content!
Would love to hear from these bands / members and what their views are today. After they grew up and had to maybe conform to society. I too am a musician and grew up in the 80s Metal / NYHC scene (Gothic Slam).....Great times..... Awesome video btw!
The jedi religion took a lot of inspiration from eastern philosophy. Mostly Buddhism if I'm remembering correctly, but there's alot of similarities between Buddhism and Hari Krishna
Easily the best you have ever done. Excellent work. My first punk show was in 1979. The best thing about punk has always been about challenging authority and my/your way of thinking. You did that for me with this and it has been a long time. Thank you.
@@hellasalvy @saranoelle3927 I had a similar path. I loved the message of the Hare Krishna spirituality especially through 108, but I never took it too seriously as I was more educated by anarcho punk and religion was not good news. Years later I discovered the book "A Guide to the Bodhisattva Way of Life" by Santiveda and it blew my mind. Never looked back.
Amazing video @Finn! Thank you for sharing this super important history. As a former Straight Edge Vegan that spent a year in jail for taking direct action, I really appreciate you taking the time to explain what motivated us in the 90s. Now as a pastor and dad of three teenagers, it’s hard to explain to my kids and young people what it was like in the scene growing up. Please continue to make this amazing content. We really appreciate you and all of the hard work!
Mate this was really fucking good, great to hear about stuff I didn't have a clue about. Love that you've started mixing in more of the content you actually like and want to talk about. This is going to bring up some great conversations with my mates. Keep up the good work dude
I remember having a conversation with someone about ecosystems and human involvement and I asked them, "what if we are the invasive species destroying the ecosystem?" That was something they really did not want to confront.
Except that doesn’t really make sense unless you accept that every other organism that’s migrated between locations on this planet is also invasive. Yes, we cause more damage to ecosystems than any other living thing, but that can be remedied if we change our ways. If anything, calling us invasive seems to be nothing short of implying that genocide against us (or some of us depending on who you talk to) would be a good thing, and that’s just morally wrong.
This is great stuff to think about, and you've definitely got me going to listen to shelter and 108 and other bands you mentioned. It's challenging my view of what punk really is. Though the lyrics you described first are definitely nihilistic, and that fits right in with my definition of punk.
I with you Finn, I too feel very lucky to have been at an age where I was really starting to think for myself as a pre-teen, early teenager and to be exposed to these ideas these hardcore bands were talking about influenced how I think to this day.
The bassist of early eighties Ohio hardcore band 0DFx, Brad Warner, became a pretty well known Zen master. In his book Hardcore Zen he writes a.o. about the overlap between the straight edge movement and buddhism.
Love that Finn is branching out and talking about this kind of stuff, this is the good shiiiii- Never heard of Shelter because I was never part of that scene, so I'm learning a lot here :)
I loved the philosphical and questioning nature of this deep dive, and the questions you pose to us the audience. Great work Finn. Keep up the stimulating content
I really do appreciate your nuanced view on punk subcultures. I've always been an admirer of the music and ideals of punk in general, but haven't seen much proof of them in the real-world. In the communities I've been in, interacted with, or watched from a distance more often than not I found 'punk rockers' to be rigid and close-minded scenesters who don't appreciate or approve of things that don't correlate with their own pre-appoved standards. That is unless someone with more social credit says its okay for them to do so. It's just fashion for most people.
Comming from the more "traditional' hardcore and punk scene back then, it was weird and tense even to see these straightedge bands and fans getting more and more mixed at shows. But later, after sitting down with these guys and having discussions they actually changed my minds on some of the points they where making, even till this day. Good times!
Jay from Painstake. Our song "Bloodshed" was on "Stones to Mark a Fire." Great Video. I was always more of a spiritual person. 108 is always in heavy rotation. I loved that time. All those bands and respected what the fact that everyone was trying to do something they thought was thought provoking and positive.
Hey, quick question-- have you ever delved into the lyrics of Aesop Rock? While some are just imaginative tracks about a frog, others get pretty existential, or are heavy metaphors about society. A recent track "Aggressive Steven" looks at the realities of a homeless person, where his older songs like "none shall pass" are a deeper look at society itself. Maybe you'd appreciate em.
I'll be honest but through all these years, even though I have disagreed with Finn on multiple occasions, I still enjoy his content. In an alternative universe, he, me and Dan Frampton are having a beer and goofing around about various topics.
This is probably my favorite video of yours. I didn't realize how luck I was to come up during that time period until I got much older. My interest in environmentalism, vegetarianism, spirituality, leftist politics, all that came from the 90s HXC scene. Fantastic video
I think it's unfortunate that RU-vid has forced creators to feel the weight of needing to get views as this may be my favorite video you have done. You spoke from the heart and experience in a way that was enlightening and reminded me why I love the hardcore scene and culture. This evoked the idea from Bane's song "Can We Start Again?" Regardless of how you feel in the end about this video from what it does or yield for view counts, thank you so much for making it and for what you shared. This was fantastic.
I really dug this video. 108 was founded by vic after he left shelter, which is when I first met him. Lived at and traveled with the Krishna devotees for years. Also Vic was in a band before shelter called inside out, whose vocalist was Zack Delarocha.
Awesome video Finn! I love this content. I was there in the 90’s hardcore scene. This video was like a trip down memory lane. “Don’t let your outrage for injustice end where your selfishness begins” - Earth Crisis One of my personal favorite quotes
The 90s was such a unique time to come of age, and now looking back so many people sadly skip that decade for the "Easy 80s." We share a lot of the same beliefs about society, the planet, imperialism & materialism. But you challenge these beliefs and more in a critical way thru hardcore and for that I thank you.
As someone who was a musician in the scene and era you were talking about, you masterfully covered the uniqueness and complexity of that time. Thank you
I generally don't like videos because I keep my liked video list to a very specific playlist of old Romanian hardcore. But I loved your video, and thank you for it
Im 23 and i play in a HCpunk/garage band and i just don't come to the same conclusions as finn. Im tired of this debate. I love rockNroll but i feel that its spirit is more and more buried and at this point i just want to have fun and enjoy myself. I hate gate keeping and the rockstar attitude. We dont owe anything to anyone, we sound amd dress how we like. Some will say that thats a very simplistic conclusion but you know what? Sometimes things are that simple. I just want to wear my leather jacket and rock.
What debate ? That hedonism is an empty lifestyle? It is - there isn’t a debate , but it’s fun and it feels good so If that’s all that matters do what everyone else is doing
For what it's worth, this is my favorite video of the last 5 years I've been watching this channel. It's super insightful and it's clear that you chose your words very carefully throughout. I've always appreciated your "personal experience" content as well as your "history of" videos and this was the perfect blend of the two. I hope to see much more content of the sort going forward.
Thank you Finn. I’m 25 and hooked on 90s hardcore for a long time now (obviously wasn’t around when this was happening), precisely because it feels like since then nothing really substantially new happened in Hardcore. I feel like the sound and the discourse in the scene hasn’t really changed since then.
these videos where i end up with this list of bands to research and a new rabbit hole of hardcore to go down i didnt know existed are why i originally followed this channel. great video
I started watching your videos so many years ago but definitely tapered off in recent years. But I like what you've been doing lately, it's far more interesting than most hardcore content.
I remember my friend trying to convert me from ska to straight edge hardcore playing me stuff one time. He got but hurt when I told him they were quoting the Boy Scout Oath. I told him that wasn’t a bad thing but I’d already ruined it for him. Also, I need your Downset deep dive.
Myself, going from sad boi emo music in the 00s and finding straight edge hardcore when I got medicated for depression really helped me. Then bands like Minor Threat, Earth Crisis, Stick To Your Guns & August Burns Red really solidified how I was feeling; the systems are broken but I can do my part to do good. I can speak out against the evils of this world without losing myself and giving up. Hardcore/MetalCore/Straight Edge/Posi music carried me through middle school, high school, & the beginning of my 20s when life was challenging. I'm incredibly thankful that I was coming of age while the internet was becoming a thing. So many of these bands were before my time but I got to experience them when everything went online. I've always seen alternative music as a means to hold tension of ideas. The extremes are stupid in both directions. But allowing the space for all and only pushing out the most awful gave me hope that adults can do that. We don't have to have a "team." We can just believe what we believe, listen to others, and create space for others. Now I'm just a 30 something who can see how influential all this music was for me and how meaningful it can be. I hope my son has something like that for him while he navigates life.
I have so many memories from this era. Being in NY it was crazy seeing bands like 108, Shelter, and Cro Mags singing about consciousness, on the same bill as bands like Earth Crisis who changed my life. In a few weeks it will mark my 29th year being vegan. Animal rights has been a big part my life since seeing an ALF video at an Earth Crisis show in 1995. Thank you for making this episode.
This video further solidified Finn as my favourite RU-vidr. Finn, I'm glad you apparently take a risk now every now and then on the main channel again. I hope it pays off for you as well!
I’m a hardcore dude, and I love the new content again. Hope you are happy doing it; hopefully you are able to financially stay up. Come visit cincy again, the city has grown and gotten so much better!
This is probably one of your best videos. Listening to hardcore in the 90s did feel like it hit differently. I remember listening to Earth Crisis thinking about their lyrics and their meaning. How I felt about them.
I grew up in the South Fla Straight Edge Hardcore Scene in the mid 90’s here in Miami. This video took me back to a better time. I still remember seeing 108 and Bloodlet at a local dive bar. This was a time when Earth Crisis, Shelter and Snapcase were at their peak.
I've been watching Finn's videos for probably 5 years now and this video was super interesting, there could be more videos about hardcore, punk rock history, especially from Finn's youth. Thanks! Keep it coming!
Yo Finn, the last part of this vid spoke to me. It was also hardcore that changed and shaped me, but early hardcore punk. Jello Biafra and his music and and spoken word albums helped make me the person i am today 30 years later
I love the lyrics of these bands! I’m not at all convinced a soul exists or what that even means in reality, but the message definitely still holds some weight when you use in the real world that we can actually prove. I am loving that you are talking about things you are interested in more! Please keep doing that! ❤️
This was incredible, by far my fav video you’ve ever made. I wasn’t around for the early 90s stuff, and really only got into hardcore because of hatebreed. They really helped me through my early teens and even now for real. I’d never heard anyone like them and it gave me the push I needed to not check out many times. So seeing these other bands and all of their messages and what not. I agree, I miss when music had a message regardless if I agreed or not.
This is a great video. It has a good run down of the time period and very thoughtful commentary. Honestly, these are the types of videos that have kept me a fan of this channel for so long.
Crazy. I clicked on this link and it took me to some Google page. Like I was looking at unsavory content. Had to reload my browser and search for this video from your channel. WTF
Also Earth First! Is dope and amazing and very misunderstood. At this point we learn about this movement in school (im a conservationist). Fin. This is the best video youve ever made. I dont agree with it all but these are amazing conversations to start. Thank you. More of this please!!
I love this MBA-level analysis of my high school years and lifestyle choices so much somebody should write a chug-filled banger protesting my addiction to it.
Thank you for this video. I was on the sidelines of this scene. A lot of things make more sense to my grown up head as opposed to whenI was a young recovering homeless drug addict on a skateboard
THIS ONE! I appreciate the hell out of this. I'd sort of stopped following the channel as it had felt like a lot of the videos were feeling too nu-metal apologist, but this one popped up and not even reading the write up I clicked on it and had the exact same experience growing up. So much so that I in part chose to go to college in Ithaca to be part of Syracuse's scene. I remember when I could see the shift and downward fall from grace for me came when Eighteen Visions arose more excitement than any vegan sXe kid I'd see at a show. That said these bands and the complex dialog that we implied in their ethos were what I valued above all with the scene. Regardless to what extent I adhered to their beliefs, I felt like more than a music scene, HXC was a place where a complex array of ideas were being discussed. Zine culture was so important to it all. I'll throw in a hot take, tho I loathed their politics, that the presence of bands like OLC and their brand of offensive Neo-Con actually offered diversity to the spectrum. And oh man those recorded calls...
You can tell when Finn does a video on a subject he genuinely knows and cares about. Lots of interesting thoughts, personal stories etc. This is one of them!
I think that is spot on. I didn't even know what a vegan was until I got into Hardcore in '93. It was just cool to be exposed to a different way of thinking. Something to challenge my own ways of thinking. There's a lot less of it now. Check out that last First Blood record. It's pretty supercharged. The lyrics had me feeling something again.
Dude I think this is very informative. I've never listened to a lot of old school punk/hardcore and been curious about it. It's interesting to know they had some really forward thinking ideas in their lyrics. Some topics I definitely wouldn't have expected from punk and hardcore bands
Finn, I adore your videos. I look forward to them. They may not always be a new topic, but they're always intelligently done, and very well put together. This video is gold though. I have found new music that I thoroughly enjoy from watching your videos. I have gone down rabbit holes because of them. I've learned even more on my own because of you. Thank you for that ...for all of your content. Also, I love when your opinion is different from mine because that just gives me another way to look at something.
This was an amazing video Finn, exactly the type of thing that made me sub in the first place. I grew up loving hardcore but we never had a scene in my country, so it's awesome hearing about the history of the genre from people who experienced it
That was deep. I’ll probably get shit on for this but the deep introspection is why I like Rush so much, so maybe I’ll dig some of this stuff. I’ll be checking these bands out tomorrow while I’m working.
Something to add on to the point of hardcore music and scene incorporating ideology, with straight edge being the simplest example - it was a lifestyle, it did incompass all of your life and how you lived it. How you ate, worked, slept and your closest social network, the gains and sacrifices you made, for the common greater cause for the society we wanted to live in and give to next generation, instead of just hopelessness and "nothing really matters anyway". It was a great feeling. Though can it be heavily criticized for how it could also be toxic, dysfunctional, abusive and even violent at times, YES. Or how one can honestly say that hardcore who came from punk with an anti religion policy became its own religion. I find it funny how people think metalheads gatekeeping is bad, they don't know how bad it can get.. Its important to point out that theres alot of people who still believe and live these ideologies and lifestyles and I 100% respect that. Although its nowhere near what it was 10-40 years ago. I believe that music could win with talking more ideology which would bring prople together, it can make music larger than life.
Where does Antischism fall into this topic? I used to love their riffs. I eventually found myself differing from their views but I still appreciate the sound
Bring back 90's Hardcore without the Straight Edge part; fuse that with 2008 style Avenge Sevenfold and Evanescence and you'll have a Winning Formula for a Band. 90's Death Metal, 90's Hardcore, 80's Metal, late 2000's Hardcore and late 2000's Metal and Thrash would be the Greatest Genres of Music of all time for me and then 1990's Alternative, Punk Rock from 1975-1982, Punk Rock from 1991-2003, Mid to Late 90's Ska/Punk, 2000's to early 2010's Indie Rock, Dance and Pop. Late 1980's to early 90's Drum Machine Pop, R&B and Hip Hop, 1990's R&B, Rap, Dance and Hip Hop, 1970's Hard Rock, late 1960's Garage Rock, 2000's Hip Hop, Dance and R&B. Mid to Late 1990's Electronica/Dance/Techno/Industrial. Mid to Late 1980's and early 1990's Emo, 80's New Wave, 1980's Alternative and College Rock, SST Records and Subpop and late 1970's Power Pop, Mod and Post Punk from the U.K.
Having been a teen in the 90s, being influenced by bands like Downset, VOD, Biohazard, RATM, etc., I had a thought recently: heavier music today may be technically more proficient and, well, "heavier," but there's zero fucking passion behind most of it. Like, what the fuck does Alex Terrible stand for? Nothing/no one is "real" anymore.
This is so interesting and real. I will be checking out Shelter. I love the layout here and the challenge to THINK here. This is a very interesting look at a phenomenon I can only view from a birdseye and appreciate the depth they were going for. And I, like, really appreciate you for touching this maaan.
