The Truth About Ramsay and Reek | ASOIAF Explained 

Wow I had no idea. That's brilliant writing

i believe you’re talking about the books, but i can vouch that i definitely saw this happening in real time for the show audience.

You're thinking a bit too much into it. Yes many (all?) readers thought Theon should have been hanged/beheaded or otherwise severely punished for his crimes. When people started reading Reek chapters they didn't think "I wish I hadn't thought that Theon should be beheaded for his crimes." As a reader you can think two things at once. What ended up happening was harsh, and he still should have been beheaded. Every further Reek chapter is a display and reminder of Ramsay's depravity. You can feel bad for Theon without feeling guilty for wanting him punished (two things at once again).

I still believe murdering children for greed is irredeemable. I don't think being sadistically tortured by an insane person forgives it, and I'm not sadistically insane to ever sentence anyone to something like that. I would never forgive it, though.

he murdered children bro, he did deserve what he got

Agreed. It's difficult to get all these little details on just one read through. I should re-read these books

I wonder if Ramsay will kill Roose in the books. If he does I feel like his patricide will seem like the only way he will get true acknowledgment, otherwise without that motive I don’t see Ramsay moving against him. He’ll never get that paternal affection if Roose is not alive to see his accomplishments. And interesting topic to ponder, which is interesting because ASOIAF has pretty much been dead to me since the end of season 5.

😊😅9

​@@FormerGovernmentHuman999😅and the populate of 90s in my 98😅the last few 😅and i

@@FormerGovernmentHuman I dont think Ramsay is smart enough to get rid of Roose, its not easy to catch that man off guard. He generally doesnt trust people and he probably knows better than anyone who Ramsay really is and what he is capable off so if anything i see it be the other way around. At some point Roose might just decide to get rid off Ramsey for one reason or another and he probably wont see it coming. Maybe his sadistic nature becomes more liability than help to Roose. For political negotiation he makes a great scapegoat for whatever cruel thing the Boltons do or he just gets sacrificed in battle. Whatever conflict those two characters might have, i dont see it go Ramsays way.

It's not about having more than one son making it problematic, many houses have multiple sons. Roose said he feels like he won't live long enough to see his new son become fully grown and that boy lords are the ruin of many houses so he thinks it's for the best that Ramsay kills them off before Roose himself dies and his new son becomes lord too young

that’s because he is the best character, he had a fantastic arc in both the books and the show his chapters are grrm exploring the theme of identity, and it’s so interesting

Ugghhhh... your favorite character is Theon? Well, that proves what is said about personal taste.

@Megatron4Life23 cry about it.

The fear in his voice when he becomes reek is some top quality acting listen to the break in his voice when he apologises to Sansa

@@Megatron4Life23 Most of book readers think theon has best POV chapters and many many people say he is their favourite.

Definitely, but at the same time, more an argument of semantics. Ramsey was never actually Reek. So both make sense. In such a deep dive into the psychology of the relationship, it would have been nice to mention the "Fake Reek". I always wondered if that had a deeper meaning.

@@alicelaybourne1620to be fair, at a interview when asked about Reek GRRM counted Theon as 3rd (secretly counted a 4th). Aegon Targaryen’s channel has it if you look for Reek. For the record: the 4 Reeks are: 1. Original 2. Fake Reek Ramsey 3. Theon 4. Rob Stark. Both Theon and Rob are currently still alive and having a very literal Identity Crisis believing they are Reek formally Theon. Also the “hooded man” was Reek(4) aka Rob Stark. Theon never left Winterfell as Reek, the Moat Calian Reek was Rob dressed as Theon, making a meta joke where Ramsey teases the reader.

@@mistermaestersirthomas9164This feels like such a stretch lmao.

@@rodrikofharlaw6848 do you know where the hart is? Because Cat, soon to be known as Stoneheart doesn’t.

@@mistermaestersirthomas9164 Rob Stark? HUH?

Theon killed children... why did he kill those two boys? For what? For who?

How could he not then be taken over by hideous uncontrollable Rage??? What could prevent that??? Are only some of us taken over by it and not others?? How? is it because theon was evil from the start?? Does one have to begin with no desire to harm others? Is it something external that is summoned?? Explain please. Or does no one know of what I speak of?

@@supervillainnova8352he wanted to keep winterfell. The people would’ve rebelled if the starks were dead. He didn’t deserve this torture

He's been with a "Reek" since he was born. He actually set him to be killed at the Dreadfort. Essentially he traded places to lure Theon in to take Reek's place.

Come to think of it I think Ramsay is actually the devil

​@@thescrewsareneatlyfastened Euron Greyjoy wants a word with you.

Reminds me of Dahmer trying to make friends by lobotomizing them.

@@leathewolf more like sex slaves

​@@leathewolfthere was definitely a sexual aspect to Ramsay and Reek/Theons relationship

The level of depravity in the books has honestly messed with my head. I’ve read a ton of dark literature (most recently Blood Meridian) but I’ve never seen torture like what happens to Theon. Before reading it, if someone had asked me to create a creative torture method, I wouldn’t have been able to think of the type of stuff that happens to him. So why am I watching this video? 🤷🏻‍♂️

​@@Dapryortheres are many torture techniques in real life that we haven't seen in the books. Real history was far worse

@@Dapryorthe Reek chapters were SO HARD to get through.

@@Dapryornothing a little Wikipedia on torture won’t fix

Absolutely agree! I always assumed that was the fricking case. Ramsay's full of hatred. "I'm not happy and I was born of a raping, so therefore, _no one gets to be happy_ ".

and then says , thats all ive ever wanted. A peaceful rule and a quiet people, or something along those lines. fucking awesome evil.

And Roose added something like: "she wasn't a good lay, kinda meh in the look departement and my favorite horse hurts it's leg when I left, it wasn't a good day." I paraphrase but it's the spirit of his words.

@@kawaibakaneko I think he was out hunting a fox and it escaped or something.

⁠@@kawaibakaneko I’m sure the exact quote is “This miller's marriage had been performed without my leave or knowledge. The man had cheated me. So I had him hanged, and claimed my rights beneath the tree where he was swaying. If truth be told, the wench was hardly worth the rope. The fox escaped as well, and on our way back to the Dreadfort my favorite courser came up lame, so all in all it was a dismal day”

He literally mailed his dick to his dad lol

That's a far stretch. There's no reason to believe that Ramsay wouldn't happily flay Theon's dick and wait for Theon to beg to cut it off.

Wait that's a brilliant observation

@@thescrewsareneatlyfastened It's bullshit. Of course Ramsey castrated him in the books.

Dude reek and Ramsay are necrophiliacs. They’re sick. Just r*ping live women and dead corpses on the road. Ramsay makes his dogs have sex with jeyne poole. He’s absolutely sick and twisted.

Oh shit that's right. Looking back on it, it's like which Reek and Ramsay was she talking about, you know?

What did she say about Reek and Ramsay’s hunts?

@@quilliamattari2772 "The boy is a sly creature by all accounts, and he has a servant who is almost as cruel as he is. Reek, they call the man. It's said he never bathes. They hunt together, the Bastard and this Reek, and not for deer. I've heard tales, things I can scarce believe, even of a Bolton." What they were hunting was also described. It was smallfolk women who Ramsay then forced himself upon killed and then Reek well..did necrophilia.

Didn't Ramsay kill the original Reek and assume his identity back at Winterfell while Theon was still in charge? I think some other men of the North were hunting Ramsay and Ramsay killed Reek and switched their clothes so they'd think Ramsay was dead. I'm pretty sure Theon had no idea who Ramsay was until he ended up being his prisoner.

I hated him, but this was weird and unnecessary in the series. 😅

We actually don't know if Ramsey's mother is still alive. But his half brother, Roose's heir Domeric Bolton did died of a bad stomach after spending with Ramsey and his mom. Roose believes Domeric was murdered by Ramsey, some fans believe the culprit is Ramsey's mother. I believe Domeric tried to live like a peasant to feel closer to his half bro and he poisoned himself because he mixed up hemlock and wild carrot. I am dumb like that 😎

Maybe Martin should have finished one more book 😂 and Martin did say that the season 8 endings are what will be in the books but the build up will be different.

Yee, mine too (But I also have an absolute obsession with Iwan and Alfie)

Its actually much worse when you read them because your mind vividly portraits them and you can't just switch it off like Everytime i read a jon chapter i feel cold Everytime I read a reek chap i feel like I'm missing a few finger's and teeth

The book didn't skip over it

@@justink5000 yes but they didn't show us as much detail as the show did

I remember it being gruesome in the books 🙈 yes the show was (obviously) more visual, but the book gave us a lot of detail on Theon's pain. I remember the books diving deep into Theon's inner turmoil, you can really feel how the torture stole Theon's humanity and made him a cornered animal, only able to think about how to avoid the pain. Okay, now thinking about it & remembering it better, I see what you mean! The books mainly showed Theon's torture through memory, while the show has it happening on screen. I guess experiencing Theon's loss of humanity through his narration was more gruesome for me personally even than watching the torture first hand. But I can see how this can be different for anybody!

@@justink5000 yes the books showed us the mental state Theon was in whereas the show showed us the actual physical side of Ramsay's torture i.e his fingers, getting beaten, his manhold getting removed, being forced to sleep in the kennels

I don't think there will be a battle of the bastards in the books

@@henriquecesardesouzasilva8766 I don’t know, I’m just a monkey brain fam of the series I didn’t read the books I’m only aware that the books aren’t that far ahead yet

I don’t think so either……… BECAUSE THERE WILL BE NO MORE BOOKS!!!!!!!!!!! F GRRM!!!!!!!

@@rossington1680 according to the author there are "just" 500 pages left to be written...

@@Manwendlil "just" 500 pages by GRRM standards is overwhelmingly good news actually

It's good that you don't read the books. Start reading them when Winds releases

@@mrj4082 I’m not really into the whole GoT universe, apart from watching it again to refresh my memory and then I am going to watch HoTD for the first time, but as far as I know Martin is not going to finish his latest book.. However the longer I watch videos of this kind the more I want to try to read it😅.

on god

I guess they both have a sort of rebirth as well, victarion with his hand and reek re emerging as theon.

nah ramsay is completely whyte,lets not use this type of language that black=bad or evil,it comes from a very whyte perspective

"Hardcore natural darkness" could be a band's name

Yessir@@thescrewsareneatlyfastened

I'd disagree that Ramsay is any less evil than Gregor. However, it's his METHOD that reflects Roose. Ramsay plays the same mind games as Roose but his version is not as discreet and sophisticated, something that really annoys Roose. And while he enjoys these games, it's highly likely that subconsciously he does that for maybe connection or living up to his father. After all, Roose also trolls Theon when they are together (and I'm glad the show also depicted Roose's version of mind games).

Who is gregor

Is it gregor claigaine

I don’t think he cared for him in the same way normal people do but more cared for him as a pet that entertained, obeyed him and enabled his twisted sadistic behavior, even though we never get to meet the original reek and he would be classed as a posthumously minor antagonist however I’d say he is quite important to Ramsay Boltons story and we’re probably never meant to know just who exactly he was as it’s supposed to be a mystery on who corrupted who, I say that, it’s most likely both were already nasty individuals who became even worse when they became inseparable friends but it’s clearly obvious that the original reek was just as cruel and evil as Ramsay as according to lady Donella hornwood “the boy (Ramsay) is a sly creature by all accounts and he has a servant who’s almost as cruel as he is, reek they call the man, it’s said he never bathes, they hunt together the bastard and this reek and not for deer…” and Rodrik Cassel says after he captures Ramsay posing as reek that he’d love to kill him along with Ramsay as “he’s as bad as his master!” even Ramsay himself confirms it when he tells Theon about how he was captured after brutalizing and sexually assaulting a peasant girl “I was done with her by then and he (Reek) liked to take his turn while they were still warm…” but I do see where you’re coming from but I’m not sure if he cared about him in a genuine friendship way although it does seem he’s doing all this to Theon and transforming him into a second Reek as a way to bring his old loyal servant back to life so maybe, however unlikely, that deep down he feels guilty about setting Reek up to be killed in his place as although it was a it’s you or me situation he most likely was annoyed that it had to come to that in the first place as when he’s telling Theon about what happened the first thing he mentions is “the wretch (reek) is dead, the girls fault if she had not run so far his horse would not have lamed and we might’ve been able to flee” immediately he passes the blame onto the girl they were tormenting and basically says it’s her fault that Reek was killed even though if they weren’t torturing her they wouldn’t have gotten themselves into that mess so this might be Ramsays own way of removing the guilt by bringing him “back to life” I could be entirely wrong though as psychopaths don’t tend to feel guilt, remorse, empathy, love etc but who knows maybe he did care for the original Reek in his own twisted way

I wish I read the books first so I had that pure experience🙏😭