It's worse than that. Disreguarding all the ways Steve was shafted in this Tekken. The mechanics of Tekken8 fundamentally destroy Steves playstyle. Steve is a safe poking character. With extremely powerfull counterhit tools but weak offence, weak lows and weak punishes. This pushes optimal Steve gameplay into clean fast movement and pokes to open up the opponent for a Counterhit. Thats how Steves character design works. But in Tekken 8. Defence is punished with Chip damage. Heat allows for true 50/50 mixes from pretty much every character for massive damage. And a lot more characters just have very powerfull aggressive tools to open you up. This makes Steves lack of punishment a significantly bigger issue than it's ever been. as thats the main way you get people off of you. In addition all the new approach tools that completely bypass the small tekken approach you used to have to engage with severely damage his Keepout and poking tools. and the general buffs to armor moves means his Counterhit's (Severely nerfed counterhit tools at that) will whiff or get crushed most of the time and then the nerfs to low parries means the primary way Steve mains managed to make their low defence scary is gone now too
I think the reason why it's hard to explain why Steve feels bad to play in Tekken 8 is because of the plethora of ways Steve has been shafted in this game so it's impossible to pin-point a single reason why. On a character level - the individual nerf's Steve has received to his counter hit game in Tekken 8 is actually pretty mind boggling. The developers wanted there to be a blanket nerf to all counter-hits in Tekken 8, but it really feels like they made double sure that Steve's counter-hit game was double nerfed in the process. Removing the counter-hit launch properties out of DF2 and WS2 has made spamming high-crush moves EVEN MORE of a counter to Steve than in Tekken 7. Meanwhile some characters like Jin and Kazuya has been given god-like counter hit launching, high crushing, power-lows?? Calling Steve a counter hit specialist in Tekken 8 is actually a joke. Steve actually has 1 threatening counter hit move in Tekken 8 in B1, which does mediocre damage at best and doesn't lead to any oki (because Steve as a character really doesn't have a strong Oki game at all). It's only redeeming quality is that the move is fast and safe, but in a game like Tekken 8 when blocking on Steve is basically losing (chip damage, bad punishment) playing safe is less rewarding. Furthermore, I don't think there's a single character that has a worse heat game in T8 than Steve. Every other character in heat get install mechanics, combo extensions, more damage, more chip damage, better tracking, true mix-ups etc in heat but Steve gets unseeable throw mix-ups? 1 throw that does pisspoor damage and a 2 throw that people will always break. Well at least you won't have to suffer these bad options for long because they take up so much heat meter you'll be lucky to be able to throw them twice per round. In fact, Steve having such an underwhelming heat game indirectly makes the nerfs to DF2 and WS2 feel even worse. Now because your best mids are QCF1 and Albatross 2, even on hit and going into heat you're stuck just feeling like "I guessed correctly and hit them while they were ducking, now I'm in heat and my best mid's are still only QCF1 or Albatross 2 and my only mid launch option is to Heat Dash after hitting them." Not to mention the general buffs to power crush, evasion, high-crush type moves in Tekken 8 have really power-crept Steve out of the meta. So on an individual character level Steve has been "changed" so much that the things that felt great about playing him in previous Tekken games don't feel that great anymore, and because he does the opposite of thriving in Tekken 8's game systems it really feels like you're driving mini-van when everyone else gets to have fun racing on their sportscars. But the worst thing imo about Steve in Tekken 8 is simply that he doesn't feel like a coherent character anymore. Steve in Tekken 7, love him or hate him, but he had a clear, simple and elegant identity. It felt like all his key moves, stances, options all worked together and made a really coherent kit that encouraged a specific way of playing. The old meme of Steve only really being played with two moves (B1 and DF2) had some truth to it. Steve was a simple character, but nobody could deny that he also had a huge amount of depth. Steve in Tekken 8 simply cannot be played with two moves anymore. DF2 has basically been removed, and the power creep of really strong moves that EVERY character has now means that simply blocking and fishing for counter hits is a less viable strategy now. The most succesful Steve's in Tekken 8 will have to use every trick in the book from Lionheart stance mix-ups, unseeable throw mix-ups in heat, throw's that lead to wallsplats etc. and IF played this way Steve is not a weak character, but I just HATE that I feel like I'm less of a specialist and now I'm desperately scraping at the bottom of the barrel for knowledge checks and gimmicks. I really don't care about winning or losing. Not being able to win enough will ALWAYS boil down to skill issue. BUT... every time I hit a DF2 on counterhit and can only get a WS1,2 I die a little inside. Every time I use B1 and get high-crushed AND counter hit launched by Jin using D2 or Kazuya using D1+2, I slowly start to lose the will to live. I can't deny that this is kinda victim mentality, but I feel like every legacy character in Tekken 8 has been improved by either making their game plan stronger, or giving them a strong option that covers for their weaknesses. But for Steve - they made his game plan weaker, and they TRIED to cover his weak mix-ups with Lionheart but the irony is that keeping DB3,2 knockdown would've been a stronger mix-up option than Lionheart ever was.
To win with steve you HAVE to be really good with whiff punishes and counter hits. He doesn't have anything else fr. Was my main in T4, secondary in T6 and 7, and was gonna be my main in 8 but damn near every other character is just better.
The problem with CH B1 is that its 12 dmg so the same momentum shift isnt there anymore. They should have made his PAB either i22f or make it launch on normal hit. Three other changes he should get is 1. B2 being i15 2. LH always auto parry mids, and in heat parry mids and highs 3. CH df2 always transition into two faced instead of the lame options he gets now.
B1 feels bad because of the healing mechanic due to being such a low damage first hit starter. With a keepout playstyle it always feels like I'm losing the damage war despite getting juicy B1 counterhits. My list of gripes with Steve: 1. DF2, obviously 2. Sonic Fang heatdash should, at the very least, give us a wallcombo. The buff from WS is pointless, honestly. 3. F1+2 should give us stage interactions. 4. This might be asking for too much, but LH1 should wallsplat or launch with heatdash. LH mixup is weak and the opponent has a strong reason to duck.
The meta of Tekken is endless rush down. Characters who have that like Reina Dragunov Feng Nina Alissa who can get in do unpunished strings and get out are the character choice. Meanwhile characters like Steve Kazuya Asuka Zafina who are built around counter hits whiff punishment and generally capitalizing on your opponents mistakes aren't preferable because heat and a lot of stuff in this game is generally uninterruptible on reaction. There are a lot of things the top tiers continue to do that the bottom tiers just can't deal with. Nina's guns doing unspeakable amounts of chip along with distance and Dmg is criminal. Steve's heat throws or sonic knockdown isn't competing with that. Same with Dragunovs heat combos Dmg wall carry and Oki.
So the Liohart change made him playable, Steve is still quite strong thanks to that. The thing they made keeping B1 cost him dearly. They Took his df2 ch combo, b1 does much less damage. B2 not launching, b1 also has a security reduction on whiff were you have to do the flk cancel into DB into b to get back to standing Block. Also his duck in 2 being a guard break should be back in this Aggresive game. Another nerf that was not mentioned was to his qcf1 it used to be that Steve was able to splat pretty easy but now the heat engage makes it so that the move does not splat when you are weirly angled at the wall or from far Away. It used to be that at 2 bodies ranger you could get a splat. I would have preffered for another move to be his heat engager instead of qcf 1. On the other hand the buffs he recieved were in general great but the general nerfs and the changes to the high powerchrushes were a huge nerf for him. Sonic Fang usted to do 55 damage with heat dash because it guaranteed pkb d2. In the case o the general change to high powerchrushes he used to literally kill any character that blocked his 1,2,1,2 string by cancelo g at the end into backsway 2 and launching for 130 dmg combos that were easy. Heat burst not tracking is also pretty big as he does not have a mid tracking option and you are forced to use tricks to realing if you want to track ss duck.
he's def gotta be played rushdown heavy if you want to be scary in the game. you have no option but to stay point blank and spam strings, then weave into lionheart 50/50. people played him as a timing CH fishing char in other Tekken's. the damage Nerf on B1 killed it. you're better off doing 1, 2, 1 into stance pressure now.
hey so im not the best steve main out there i am currently tekken king with him but tbh i dont think he needs buffs, you are right that steve has 100% lost his identity as the counterhit guy as like so many people fill that role better than him (lee, King, etc.). but steve now is a extremely safe character that doesnt have to take risks if you dont want to, and you basically just sit there and spend all game getting your opponents timing to make the hardest and sickest read in order to hurt them and hurt them BADLY. steve has his flaws but i think all tekken characters should have them and what makes steve so fun for me is that he is very VERY good at exploting all your opponents flaws. my issue is that too many characters in this game dont have enough flaws/weaknesses for steve to exploit. but PERSONALLY i think steve should stay as he is and the people stronger than him should get brought down to his level as i think steve will really rise among the ranks/tiers as the higher tiers get nerfed to where steve can take advantage of the flaws THEY SHOULD HAVE. im pretty sure this is like the opposite take that every other steve main will have here, but i wanted to share my opinion
Safe space brother, you're free to share your opinion anytime here🫡 This makes sense actually & I don't mind. Though I feel as though it'll take A LOT of nerfs to bring the top tiers to Steve's level. But you do have a point & I have actually mentioned this in a few vids
Preach, somone that doesnt downplay their main. Yes steve has undergone a lot of changes, but as viability, he is up there. You can see that when you play against Steve, ha can be safe, evade, has good 50/50 well rounded. As Lars main i think every charachter has it strong sides that you can usee to rack free wins and weak sides if sommeone knows your charachter. Steve is no exception.
I don't know about viability- it's incredibly rare to see him in tournament. If you mean you can still win with him, that's true for any character in Tekken for most of the player base even bad characters historically. I think the issue is he's just not fun to play anymore. They didn't put work into fixing him, they just deleted a lot of his tools. CH Df+2, stomp hook knockdown, B+2 doesn't launch, WS 2 doesn't CH- these things made him different and fun. I don't know if it's changes as much as just straight up removal. I don't think CH Df+2 was the problem. I think B+1 is unsafe now too and B+1 being good is the reason he lacks good lows, quick launches, good punishes. I don't care about nerfs but I would like his moves to remain intact. It's like you got people who don't understand Steve to fix Steve and their solution is the delete key. Yeah it's still fun to do PAB mix ups but it only goes so far.
@@MilosJsWizardare you on coke? Well rounded with no launchers? No good lows and -1 on hit? No homing mids and nothing but endless negative frames on stuff what on EARTH are you frigging talking about no where near VIABLE no where near ill challenge any steve fox to a set win & STILL tell you he sucks garbage
Hmm. I would like more of the characters to be more consistently competitive, but I wonder if at this point the top tiers need adjustment? Dragunov and Alisa come to mind. Interesting vid 🤔 Thanks for the content 👍
tbh i think alot of pakistanis including arslan think of steve that highly because of numan. Other than numan who has devoted himself to the char and lowhigh who plays him occasionally steve just ain't cutting it in tournaments he requires so much work for less gain than for example dragunov or alisa who just require less work. I was so hyped when Lowhigh chose steve for one match in the ewc but the result was dissapointing and i don't even feel like lowhigh was playing that bad with steve.
sadly heera ain't competing due to his incident. But hopefully he will again soon. We need every steve player we can get at this point 😅. I really like seeing numan play. I also like that the steve community is still strong like you said in your video alot of people still love steve and watch your steve videos 🥊. @@GamerNemy
could you maybe make a video for steve and what he can do of opponents turtle and duck or sidestep all the time? if you already did something like that thx could you link me the video? I feel lile if the opponent turtles and sidestep and duck there is very little steve can do to approach them. Like Bryan atleast has his hatchet kick, launching low and his amazing counterhit range and amazing damage. but Steve has a hard time opening up turtles.
Nah. The top tiers need nerfs. But even then, I don’t wanna see an influx of Steve’s in ranked just because people think he’s that’s good. We need tournaments and ranked to stay diverse imo
he isnt a counterhit character anymore - the removal of ws2, rwv 1,2 and flk1d1 for LH makes him more a 50/50 rushdown character than a counter hit character. I'd rather have df2 homing, remove ub3, have ch ws2 launch back. they removed too many counter hit launchers for LH and knockdowns.. then call him a counterhit paragon. other characters have way scarier counterhits (lee bryan nina azu)
I mean removing knockdown from db+3, 2 was a crime. Just takes away any fun from the move or personality from the character. I don't know if they fixed this but you can't block after b+1 unless you crouch cancel. Ah yes, the reason he can't launch as quick, has bad lows and punishment is B+1 and you can't even block after it without crouch cancel. As others have pointed out, when Tekken 8 trailers were starting to release it was cool to see Nina with guns, like wow, they're really adding things to characters... nope, just Nina. Things got mostly taken away from Steve for seemingly no reason. You can literally just move away slightly from db+3, 2. It's only when you're waking up or cornered that it was a serious threat. Why does Df+2 not have a counter hit launch? Is he that good that he can't have a CH launch when most characters can launch on normal hit for 15 frames? No CH launch after WS 2? B+2 doesn't give combo? Just incredibly lazy fixes. Punch parry now universal input even though there's no move for b+1+2? Makes me think Tekken devs are just dumb.
Honestly … as a Steve main, he’s a solid character. BUT if he were to get any buffs, it would need to be damage buffs to his main counter hit moves but a very slight damage increase imo & also giving him a 15 frame punish. Outside of that, he’s one of the safest characters in the game where IF you play him right, your opponent will not get their turn often. And if he doesn’t get any buffs, he’ll go up as far as where he’s ranked when the top tiers that are brain dead get nerfed i.e Jin, Alisa, Drag. He’s a top 10 pick honestly. But like everyone including myself says, relies a lot on your opponent making mistakes.
Also why give him Sonic fang from crouching, just give him a 15 frame launcher since they have killed him so much. Sonic Fang while rising punish does the least damage, no wall splats and unsafe. What's the point😂 and it's 14 frames, it's better to use while rising 1,2
Everyone keeps saying Steve is extremely safe but at the same time his plus frames are shit and jabs, dicks and almost aby low profiling move will beat his pressure. His best buttons are highs, no good mids, smash is linear, his lows are extremely unsafe. Qcf2 has no reason to be -18 and his counter hit game is gone. It's straight up terrible, b1 even despite the cancel is always punisable by 10 frame jabs. Issue is, steve isn't scary once you understand his weakness. His punish game is lacking compared to most of the cast, wall splat game is horrible since he has no actual punish that wall splats so even at the corner, you can safely step and duck against steve. So it's a battle of how much you can gimmick your opponent out. In conclusion Steve feels very incomplete, no identity, isn't built for T8 and is just a floating character
the thing is there are so many built in high crushing moves people can just crush steve everytime, or it feels like that. You have to outplay your opponent like 5 times over while the opponent just can play his char.
Also another thing tbh, Steve is honestly 1-3 buffs away from being broken asf. He already has all the necessary tools and is the safest characters in the game when played right. I don’t think yall want Steve buffs like yall think yall do. It’ll be drag all over again
