The Truth About Wet Down Jackets 

Big Agnes Shovelhead Jacket: geni.us/AKkJbAy

You just became the Bill Nye of outdoor gear testers! But seriously, this was great. I actually trust my downtek pieces a little more now. Another fun test is to try washing a downtek quilt or sleeping bag in the tub. It takes a lot of work to get it to actually soak! Oh, and perfect execution on the disclaimers at the end (per our previous YT comment convo). 👌

That is one hell of a dedicated test! Lol

Add a 30 MPH+ wind chill and try again. Cheers! :)

Is the coat itself water resistant? As far as "real world" scenarios, the waterproofing on the coat can reduce the water that gets in during the dunk.

Why are you using a Bbq thermometer?

Love the video and of course your excellent beard. This treatment seems to really work, but so does the pearling treatment on jackets when they are new. How long can one expect this treatment to carry on working?

I appreciate your sacrifice for the greater good. I REALLY need you to test out the effectiveness of another product: bear spray on humans. And get it on film. It's for science, right?!?

I'm really enjoying the great content, and the killer production. Well done.

Thanks for taking the cold to increase awareness. While the DWR may in fact still insulate when the garment gets soaked, it's still best to not get soaked in the first place. The treated down jacket certainly didn't look comfortable when wet, but maybe could make a survival difference. You are right about the warmth from the Colorado sun. As soon as it goes down or the wind comes up you feel it right now.

i got confused when you started speaking in alphabet...

Really well put together. And thanks for putting yourself through that ...very helpful. I have a lot of down gear and I protect it more than my children (and it's all hydro treated)

I don’t own any down because of this reason. I use synthetics which means I use heavier and bulkier items than I could use (I also save some money). This is a huge game changer!!! If I can carry down without the issue of it getting wet…that’s worth the money! Thanks for braving the cold so we can get a good, honest review!

I think nobody will argue that DWR coating will help massively to counter the down-sides (pun intended). It would be interesting to have a temperature reading from under the jacket. With 2 more control jackets (one with untreated down and one with synthetic fibre) the relative temperature loss could be compared. That way we'd know how much the DWR treating improves the performance. All that being said: I find it to be an improbable scenario in the first place to be caught out in a down pour (pun not intended) in your mid layer only and not grabbing your rain gear. That's why you bring rain gear. As long as the water repelling treatment of the outer fabric can keep out the rain for 5mins, you should be good. So the ultimate question is then: can you and are you willing to afford a high class down jacket? Personally, I think that the question of down vs synthetic is more interesting in the sleeping system area where weather resisting features aren't that much of an issue any more (since you can just pack tham in a dry bag and you'd be using them in your shelter). The overall weight saving will always impact your pack weight. With your mid layer, you'll be wearing it most of the time so it's not in your bag anymore and wearing additional 100 or 200g spread over the whole of the jacket won't be noticeable. And since you'd be wearing it most of the time, packability won't be a huge factor either. So in my very very personal opinion: going down (pun not indended) for your mid layer instead of synthetics is more of a luxury question with less benefits than in your sleep system.

Wool is another way to get there. And, a combination of wool and down is a very good option. Courtesy of Half Vast Flying

Brilliant! Science!

A shell should always be carried to protect yourself and your down jacket

Very interesting. I had never heard of speicaly treated down having this property. Thanks for making this video. ~RVA~

This video was really well made. Pacing and editing on point! Re the test, it's interesting to see. However down doesn't get wet because of being dumped in water usually. If you keep in the the backpack with a pack liner you could literally dump it in a stream and it would be dry. What makes down wet and impairs its function is humidity in the air or sweating into it when wearing it. When I was a Noob I once wore my down jacket to hike and it was falling apart after some time. Time is the issue here, humidity has all the time in the world to impair the down so in this regard your test isn't very telling. Then there's degradation of the treatment over time. Western Mountaineering which is a very knowledgeable producer notably doesn't use hydrophobic treatment (they explain why on their homepage). Thanks for the video!

Thank you for being so thorough in your experiments! i never heard of downtek. i wear synthetic down...i worry about animal cruelty but i am guessing (unless someone lets me know) that down feathers are collected from ducks when they are killed unlike fur plucked from rabbits when they are alive (in some cases i have seen). Downtek does seem like a great option since normal down can get wet and flat not even from rain water but from sweat

I got a mountain Hardwear ghost whisperer it's treated down that can repel light rain but humid body heat Carrie's moisture and I found even treated down can't do much against it.

I wonder if it would help when sweating. I get quite sweaty and my bown if under my waterproof gets wet and flat. Would this help 🤔

I try to keep everything I bring as dry as possible. I don’t think wet ANYTHING is comfortable, because water can absorb quite a bit of heat, and it conducts heat really well. I usually bring a separate base layer to sleep in at night so that I don’t have to sleep in sweaty clothes for this reason.

Your channel is going to blow up, production value is really good

I just dont understand on a physical level how down can be a natural "so easy" material and yet not being copied using synthetic materials? why cant we imitate down better? like 3d scan and just make it out of polyester :/? Why does synthetic insulation have to look so "different" to down??

Great video! I thought I'd share a note from Western Mountaineering's FAQ: "We have found in our own testing that the performance enhancements of hydrophobic treatments on high quality down are widely overstated. High quality untreated down already has naturally water repellant oils on it left by the geese (makes sense since geese spend a lot of time in water). These oils help repel water and keep down lofted. More importantly is that these oils last indefinitely. Hydrophobic treatments [...] remove the natural oils during the application process. Because of this, [...] we feel that hydrophobic down does not provide a considerable impact on performance and could actually inhibit performance over the lifetime of our products."

Wondering if this would apply to synthetic down such as Northface thermoball ?

So down *maintains* loft when wet, but could down also *regain* loft when wet? For example if the jacked got soaked, but in stead of wearing it immediately after, you stuff it in your stuff sack, continue hiking, get it out 5 hours later when setting up camp. Or it gets soaked while being stuffed down (without you knowing). Would the down fibers be sticking to each other then? Or would they still loft when wet?

-1 Celcius isn't really that cold for winter. You normally wouldn't even necessarily use a down jacket with such temperatures.

I get that this is a valuable review, but it's not a real a experiment without a non-downteck control and a non subjective method for recording performance.

I enjoy your channel, but the leap from rational and appropriate concerns about PFAS to “destroying the outdoors” is the kind of thing that hurts rather than helps getting good public policy. Remember, attacking Romney as a racist and nazi turned out later to be big advantage for Trump. As an influencer, I hope you can keep in mind the current political environment and avoid hyperbole. We all need to think about how are words will be heard by those outside our bubble

My bag and puffer are untreated, other than that I just use wool

I’m glad you did this experiment lol. I think the only thing I’d be curious about is flattening the jacket with a pack like if you were hiking in it. I think your test was well thought out though. I was stuck overnight in an odd location due to an emergency with an u treated d Old down bag and old untreated jacket. It was in the mid 30’s overnight. It added insult to injury, literally! It was brutal! I’ve been somewhat scared of depending on down since then, so thanks! 😀

Isn't that just a regular down jacket with a waterproof layer? If not, then why isn't it? Seems simple to me.

I just use synthetic if there’s a chance of getting wet. I own 3 synthetic jackets and 1 down jacket. I live in Ireland so that’s probably the correct ratio because it rains. A lot.

Even regular down, unless it has been extensively cleaned of all the natural oil does a surprisingly good job at repelling water. I feel these water repellent downs is mostly just marketing, or replicating what down already does.

Nothing like having a wife to throw cold water in your face on a freezing day. Thanks, honey.

I have recently bought a sleeping bag with dwr treated down. In my opinion this is the biggest invention in sleeping bags in recent times because it's really has all the advantages of down and fibers combined (aside from not being cheap). For clothing i still prefer fleece and wool over down for insulation though.

Great test. I’m going have to check out your channel now. My question is what about the exterior material on this jacket? Does it have enough water repellent properties to shield the down? Would a coat with an inferior material allow the water to penetrate and soak the down more and give a different outcome? I’m going look into this product for my winter camping thanks

I prefer super dry core jackets No other brand can compare to them They r in a different league

Thought Primaloft is supposed to be better than down when wet?

So no really testing wet down (regular down), just another ad :/

Has anyone tried a down jacket or down vest under a goretex shell?

Makes me wonder what would happen if I washed my down in the dwr treatment.

there are synthetics who have compairable warm ratio up to 650down wait some years and the NASA stuff will be superior and far more easy to clean and wash than down

Yeah I feel like I have to be careful w my down, I mostly wear it as a middle layer

Thanks for diving into Downtech/DWR. I have a bag treated with it, and it seems like it works, but never tested it out like you. Great video!

So... what you're SAYING is.... what if you could get down, with your down, so you're never down?... I'm down.

Great job on the video. I like the 'test it out' style. New Sub here!

damn you have really calm voice dude. wow

Awesome video, man! I'm sure you're wife didn't enjoy dumping that water on you at all... 🤣 I've been thinking about this quite a bit since my bag and quilt have untreated down, but I've heard that the treatment isn't always super effective. Based on your test, it looks like it is! I find myself wondering how extended rain would impact it vs dunking in a stream. For example, would raining for hours penetrate the down more than dunking for a few minutes? Hard to say. But once you learn to control the weather, maybe you can stand in the rain for 5 hours and do another test? 🤣

Helpful review and professionally assembled video. Nicely done!

So soak your down coat in vegetable oil then dry it and put it on

A good control would've been a wet non dwr treated jacket.

Really interesting and useful review. This is what buying decisions can be thoughtfully based on when we're talking expensive gear. I very much appreciate the effort. (Much more useful than the Melanzana hoodie review from which my takeaway was basically "buy this because it's a good product, made in America, and they're really nice people and deserve your business". All of that may be true, but that's NOT what I base expensive buying decisions on.). By the way you ALMOST have me talked into "take a seat" but... whoa... that's one expensive seat.

My Rab Continuum down jacket with hydrophobic down does exactly the same. Still warm after an unplanned downpour.

This is obviously a corporate shill video.

Yeah it would make me feel better about the down, but I would still do my absolute best not to let my precious down get wet!!!

Very interesting video new subscriber atvb jimmy 😎😎👍👍

My question is will this wick away sweat?

The whole of humanity is in your dept

Primaloft is the answer. Great material

Good Down Tek is Life Plucked

this was a really good idea for a test. thanks

thank you for th vid and demo...it was helpful on my quest for the best down jacket.. (-"

I was expecting a "Let Down"

Definitely a huge down fan and the technology has come a long way. I still try to keep it dry though because it would be my behavior with any nice gear. My only big qualm is wearing it as an insulator for high output activities (vs a synthetic) where I’m sweating and the moisture has oils, salt, and other body grossness instead of just water. Can Downtek perform from the inside out? Meaning, if I’m sweating from the inside does it still maintain loft?

Great review! I wish I had more money to spend!😊

Great test on this jacket. Thanx buddy..

Let's get Down to the facts!

A more likely scenario than dropping your pack in a stream is wearing a down jacket while hiking and then finding that the jacket is soaked with sweat from your back (which has happened to me). That is a problem if you're deep in the back country. Any thoughts? Really got a lot from your presentation. Thank you.

wouldnt you be better off wearing a shell over the puffer so water doesn't touch it whatsoever?

Never seen snow probably won’t but I learnt something!

What was that water proof down coating you said is destroying the habitat? I want to learn more about that

Great info thanks

Absolutely fantastic! A jib well done. Keep up the awesome content. Happy Hiking 🥾- Julia from the UK 🇬🇧

This technology is a huge improvement. Taking down when wet from useless to not being. Not the complete disaster if it was to get a soaking, submerged. This is huge. Down when looked after will outlast synthetics. I'm not yet sure this treatment is permanent but may last 3/4s of a garment's life?? Much will be how often a garment has to be washed. And anyway the last quarter of a garments life it is looking pretty rough and no longer smart, but we all keep them for nostalgia and gardening. There is still a place for synthetics, immersion suits and high abrasive work. But down garments and sleeping systems are just such a joy.. This technology is a real boost to enjoying down. Videos such as this get the word out. Love the format and quality of your vids; nice work. Thank you.

Awesome video bro!! Loved the follow up too with the old down jacket! Super cool!

Thats why they invented Gore-Tex to be used in a waterproof hardshell jacket.

Great experiment! Man, your video quality, production, skills are impressive. Thanks for sharing. Good to know! The seams really are the weak link. All in all, that Down Tech technology is critical.

Patagonia’s new Alplight is nice, but for the price & hype I’d like to see treated down if it’s to complete with synthetics. They used the encapsil down years ago but for only in 2-3 jackets

I bet she enjoyed throwing the water on you much more than you did 😆 great video was very helpful to me trying to figure out what gear is worth buying thanks

The link to the jacket does not work.

I really like that jacket. What is the temp rating or how cold have you used down to and been comfortable?

I live in western Oregon. The fog will get you very wet even being under a tarp. I don't have any down except for some inherited sleeping bags. I might be interested in it now

Excellent video sir...if that stuff works as well as you have demonstrated then that could really be a game changer. I love my down jacket but for a period during the wetter times of the year it's synthetic down only for me, this technology could re-write that need. Subbed and belled, thank you.

Looking forward to similar downtec sleeping bag experiment.

Great video!

Great demonstration and certainly pokes hole to a long-standing theory of wet down equals inadequate insulation.

Intelligent, eloquent presentation. You're a good presenter.

Kuiu also has DWR treated down. So far great stuff

I've experienced extreme weather with a flooded tent in alpine conditions and my DWR DownTek treated down quilt and jacket stayed mostly dry and kept me warm, it's definitely worth paying a little extra for the extra protection for those unforeseen times when your gear gets wet, especially on longer hikes or in remote areas.

Watching you put that jacket into the water just makes me cringe....

Nikwax for down works wonders for not already treated down garments.

Outdoor Vitals has similar technology - Loftech. They’ve done similar tests.

For the sake of science! Bravo, great video.

I have a Kelty Cosmic Ultra DriDown sleepingbag. I guess the performance should be similar. Awesome review.

😀💪💪✝️

If you had gotten hypothermia, I would have subscribed! 🥶🥶 (Kidding, I've been subscribed for awhile... nice and dedicated work on this one)

I would be curious about how long wet down would need to dry in below freezing temperatures. You can dry wet clothes in freezing conditions very well. Should equally work with down feathers.