The Truth Show returns! Episode 5 - Chainring economics, Roglic's chain, AERO shoes, and more. 

Great comment. In automotive i would 100% agree with you. Its time. But this is Campagnolo making niche bicycle parts. Vastly different volumes!

@@PeakTorque I can’t say too much, but we work with their factory race teams and then produce the final parts to production that are sold as aftermarket upgrades. Think a couple thousands units a year. I don’t pretend to know how many groupsets Campy sells at SR-EPS level, but it’s probably not massively off that? We also produce chainrings for BMX bikes, albeit much smaller, we only use 2 different size of bar stock to cut blanks for a range of sizes. Anyhow, who knows.

@@PeakTorque imo, all these bike companies are like, “People are paying $8000 for frames so let’s see what we can get away with charging” if nothing stays in stock, frankly, they can get away with it until people just decide that that’s crazy

That's what I'd heard too without trying trying to sound like an echo chamber for PT I can still a market albeit a small one maybe companies like Push or betd could probably make some money from the idea of lets call em "damper blankers" - actually, i might copyright that cha ching 💰 💰 💰

Seems having a rigid structure would put a ton of stress on the bolts and attachment points. This is where having an elastomer bushing would help

@@Velodictorian they're the same bolts that would hold the shock in place and the attachment points are designed to already take these loads, so as long as it's all torqued up properly it should be fine.

​@@jonnythelegs2597it's not the same loading at all, since you've removed the spring/damper. A rigid link would pass vastly more peak load as well as overall loading would be increased

Wrote this in a few other replies - when the Chinese factories do the ISO/fatigue testing they use a rigid steel link in place of the shock. They never use a shock. So in theory the frame is validated for these higher peak loads.

Good old high pass filter

@@PeakTorque As an audio engineer, I appreciate it big time

I concur.

@@beheermeneer Would you be an engineer without stating you are engineer?? 😝

@@jeremys2159 well, I can't be audio, can I

My bulky totem

Deep wheels and the quite high pressures probably! Not ideal for everyday

@@PeakTorque it's creates a wonderful ride ambience, totally addictive.

@@manfrommontreal especially when there's little wind and its warm. A rare floaty dat!

Where did you read 40t? I also read it was 46t on a Eurosport article but that can't be right.

I also appreciate he is filming and having both hands on the bars, rather than taking a hand off to film. It reminds me of those drivers we criticise for driving and holding their phones...

They decided not to use a mtb chainkeeper on that 1x, very risky and foolish to save 10g

That's exactly what all of those using the mountain bike equivalent of these wheels have said. The vibration seems to die out quicker.

They do claim that in their blurb i think. Slightly improved damping

After using the nylon rims on bmx as a kid they might be a more muted ride as from memory the Araya wheels weren't as harsh. That could be down to using the wider tyres of course

ah lapel mic, is it the rode one?

Yep, a sign that Vincenza no longer thinks pro team endorsements are worth the cost. Geez, teams will use "F___kin' SRAM" (to quote Mollema) if the checks are big enough so what does a pro team endorsement prove other than who writes the fattest checks? Meanwhile, if they have to buy it, pro teams will use Shimano: stuff works OK, is universally available and understood...it's now the standard that Campagnolo used to be. Times change.

You can't officially use more than a 52, I use a rotor 53t and some friends of mine use a 54t and 55t it works just fine

@simonderoo9189 that's good to hear. Have you got new 12 speed chainrings? I've got a quarq 5 bolt power metre with 11 speed rotor 54/39 rings that I'd like to carry on using.

@@alexanderhardy971 yeah I have the new 12 speed rotor chainrings, not as good as the ultegra ones but they do the job. They shift fine, it's just not as lightning fast as the ultegra chainrings

Ultegra supports 54T. Conflicting info by Shimano. I’m using 54/40 with Ultegra 8150 FD.

"Just enjoy riding your bike"... Already do, the only battery on it is inside the Cateye thing that tells me how slow I'm going and how far I rode. No more batteries until they help make the bike go when my old legs are no longer up to big climbs....which is coming soon I'm afraid.

Great point. I guess they won't offer it to the market. However, when the Chinese factories validate these frames on the fatigue rigs, they always use a fully rigid steel link (never a shock). So in theory they are validated to this kind of load.

If the mounting points are well engineered the should be no less able with a rigid interface strut. Some energy is absorbed with the suspension and transmitted in heat which would reduce transfer of energy through the frame but only marginal. Fatigue from torsion might be a concern if the strut is Inferior to purpose.im sure Cervelo have bench cycled the frame and strut with a decent margin.

No way this is solely because of material costs.

That is one part of the description but not an exclusive claim of sram llc, i think.

Most of the SRAM patents I've read are so specific they are easy to design around. It seems they have a strategy (and probably staff incentives) to file lots of patents. Probably to ward off the trolls.

Ship by air freight n all 🎉

@@PeakTorque Sorry. I forgot that most of the time in the west the only thing they are actually manufacturing is labels (aka. "brands") and not the actual products.

I agree

Not quite so. Cadence can be the same, its just a ratio thing front to back. In bigger teeth rings (for the same ratio) the chain tension is slightly lower, supposedly being more efficient.

Does chainline make a difference to efficiency. Using a 50t for the cadence and speed I ride I have a better chain line than being higher on the rear cassette with 53t

@@PeakTorque I see. Instead of having 50/34 and 11-34, it would be more efficient having 54/38 and 15-38. Would be interesting to see what a 105 derailleur with a wolf tooth Roadlink can handle in terms of cassette size.

Dont ride in the drops on road bike TT. Throwing away watts 😊. But yes, i can, its fine.

@Peak Torque riding in drops on road bike is throwing watts away?

If you can get your forearms level on the hoods but not in the drops, hoods is more aero.

@@Dolmar-Rick yes. Forearms horizontal is 15w faster for me at 40kmh than in the drops. So i set this bike up for that. I don't ride it much apart from the odd race/TT at the moment mainly riding MTB. If i was doing big 100km+ days i might readjust but honestly I've got pretty used to this position now.

@@Dolmar-Rick Keep you shoulders tight together if you want to save energy.

Thanks, i forgot to add it!

I think Vincenza hit their peak with 9-speed Record though the 11-speed Centaur groupset (sadly no longer in production) I have is pretty damn good. But they're headed way too far in the "Shimagnolo" direction for my tastes though if someone dropped an EKAR-equipped gravel bike on my doorstep I'd happily ride it. Nothing lasts forever and I'm afraid Campagnolo is headed the wrong way with Shimano now in the "even if you have to buy it" category for pro teams as Campy was decades ago. SRAM? I'd walk before I'd use anything with their name on it.

Why would you need quick rotor changes?

Think its just because the enve hubs are centerlock.

@@MrBusunglueck I think for a small cadre of mechanics maintaining 40+ bikes and 3x as many wheels over a grand tour, it makes a difference. And personally, removing and installing a lockring vs six tiny bolts, is much preferred when I need to work on my own wheels.

@@Dobiecx Yea but usually you dont have to change any brake rotors during a grand tour. Time is not an issue.

1. Weight? 2. Marketing. Draws attention to the new bike.

It was for a world cup, they're counting all the grams there. For mere mortals the lockout would be more than sufficient.

Ha i know, but cheers. Inventor on a few patents this end! You'll probably like my next video!

Looking forward to it!

The patent specifies interchangeable batteries between the FD and RD. which the SR WL batteries aren’t. It also specifies a releasable retaining mechanism on the base member of the derailleur. The SR WL batteries themselves have the release, not the derailleurs. Furthermore since the batteries have external contacts for cable based charging, they could potentially be treated as permanently attached.

@@kidsafe great Information! Thank you

Inventor of the wheel and hot water here. I heard there is a patent expert pissing contest I would like to join. ps: yoog explained it best.

On the front? Seems small even with a 10t

What's your source on that? I just read he may have used a 46t! But doesn't seem possible.

A black one

Spexcel on Ali E. Solid.

@@PeakTorque pretiate it big man

I was thinking the same thing CK hubs are quite heavy, so the total weight seems to be quite ok considering the hubs are so heavy. if they would use a hub that is as light as a dt 180 those wheels would be sub 1300g

If you've ever spent some time in a carbon bike factory you'll know they do all the ISO testing and beyond with a fixed rigid steel token. Never a shock. So they're stronger than you think!

@@PeakTorque I haven't been in a factory but have spent 23 years repairing bikes and seen the damage done to carbon and alloy frame from frames not being used with correct shock lengths ect . Things shock mounts braking , bearing mounts becoming damaged ect. The swing arm may hold out fine its more the weak points like pivot and fixing points.

@@edmundscycles1 yeh i guess so. The bonded in hard points are a QC nightmare. I broke 2 Whyte swingarms that disbonded at the bearing seats. The higher end stuff (SC) have in moulded carbon seats which have almost no risk of debonding. In theory... I know the factory who makes that tech and they have very few issues.

Still, 12.4% is 12.4%. What big corporate is going to say no to that?

@@PeakTorque 12,4% of a small portion of the costs, that's easily compensated by a few more sales

@@MichielvanderMeulen do you work in manufacturing? Because at this volume material cost is significant.

@@PeakTorque Printing machines, solar, injection moulding automation, admittingly not in production factories. But I know aluminum prices. Guess there's a euro or two of material in a chainring of 50 Euro's?

They're 38cm bruv 😂

@@PeakTorque yep. Camera angle then

If they wanted inferior braking system, they'd be using rim brakes

@@dainiusvysniauskas2049 Yeah. Superiority is the reason they got to apply the breaking force to an oversized hub and a too stiff fork and wheel at a disadvantageous lever inducing overheating problems, in a system which has the tendency to fail in catastrophic ways. The superiority of course is that now you can lock up your wheel twice as easy. But you solve some imaginary breaking problems in the wet of the classical time tested solution, which was far less costly more reliable and almost maintenance free. Why don't you just put lead weights on your bike? Sure.

@@rosomak8244 Careful, your inner durian rider is leaking, you should seek help before you turn into the guy full time. Instead of random bullshit that you spew without any knowledge behind it, let's talk about facts: 1. Disc brakes have better modality. 2. Disc brakes do not require as much force applied on brake levers. Are bikes with disc brakes heavier? Yes, by 300-400 grams. Is that weight significant in any way or form? No, unless all you literally do is climb 10%+ hills and then take a helicopter ride home. Can disc brakes fail? Yes, but so can rim brakes, especially considering that rim brakes literally wear down your rims (unless you propose stopping all the time to clean brake pads). Are disc brakes better in the wet? Yes, especially with carbon wheels. Do disc brakes require maintenance? Yes, but so do rim brakes - pads and braking surface have to be cleaned periodically to prevent premature wear on the rims, cables and their housing get just as much as with mechanical disc brakes. You're mentioning stiff forks, but let's not ignore stuff like rim brakes being a limiting factor when designing wheels

They're not uneven. I am looking at it right now, I think I'd know...

I think it was in the 10-speed era that I was at the Campagnolo HQ in Vicenza and saw the machines used to make chains. They made a big deal about changing from an outside maker (Rohloff?) at the time, but I have no clue as to what they're doing now...their cave-in to a quick-link makes me wonder what changed? They used to be rock-solid against such things. But their stuff didn't used to look like Shimano designed it either, so...

Nice bro

"but I think reviews should be left to professionals only" And you would qualify/designate them how? IMHO Hambini and Peak Torque might be as close as you're gonna get to "Consumer Reports" on cycling stuff. Are there others out there with no axe to grind or secret profits to be made honestly reviewing cycling stuff? It's damn hard to tell.

Yes correct. Vibrational losses come in to play for sure, but for this test we'll try and iso that by using standard skin stress (pressure/cross section).